Cindy,

The condenser should be close to level as possible. The pad may have shifted after the installation.

The tech did not seem concerned with the level being off. He said if it was way off it would be a problem, but basically put this in the "cosmetic" category. I think I may take a photo of the level on the unit and send it over to the hvac dealer for their records, in case it ever leads to a problem in the future. I would send it to Carrier, but why give them anything to use against me in the future....

This guy did seem thorough and agreed that some of my install issues shouldn't have happened. He did take pressure readings etc and said he'd be calling somebody because I was complaining about the humidity being high and the upstairs still being warmer than downstairs, after being sold the 2-stage a/c because it would be better at removing the humidity and for comfort. Obviously the salesman was b-s'ing me because to really do those things I should have gotten the variable (to be fair, I didn't want to spend more and he knew that--but didn't explain the diffferences to me properly).

I think my humidity may be high (in the low 60's this week) for the same reason it was higher in the winter than it used to be...air sealing is keeping it it. The a/c isn't having to run long enough because it's only around 80. I never really took note of humidity levels until getting the new system, so i don't know how it was last year. I know it was less dry this winter mainly because I didn't get my usual sore throat and dry nasal passage that I used to get when the heat would first run.

From my receipt "The air conditioning system is working properly at this time. suc 135 head press 295 suc temp 61 sh 18 sc 11 compressor ampes 11.3
fan 1.4 ambient 84 lvg 98 The customer said they are not feeling the humidity dropping . They said the air conditioning is cooling the house but
not dropping the humidity enough. I checked the system. and it is cooling correctly . I explained that I may be able to satisfy her humidity
problem and would need to talk to our install dept to check on some more improvements we can make."

For better humidity control, the blower speed ought to be as close as possible to 350-CFM per ton of cooling.

Both Supply & Return duct areas must be effectively sealed; a leaking Return from an unconditioned hot humid area will interfere with humidity control.

I'd have a load-calc performed on your home; use 0.4-Air Changes per Hour (ACH); then put the infiltration CFM in the blank space, so it will figure it & add it to the Latent load!

Here is a link that might be useful: Free Whole House Load Calc

Your two stage unit should be performing substantially better from a comfort standpoint as it should be running mostly on low speed and doing the de-hu in fine fashion. I think you may have substantial duct leakage and that can really affect system performance. If you were unable, for whatever reason, to go the variable you did make the correct decision going two stage. It is unfortunate that the salesman wasn't knowledgeable enough to differentiate the features of the units. Had he done so, I think you would have agreed with the value of the variable.

Manufacturers require level equipment in order to ensure that oil levels in the condenser are even. Make them level it and continue to check it year by year.

Cindy,

What is your current humidity level? My house is been hovering around 40% with an indoor temperature of 78-79 degrees.

Mike, it is about 73-74 in the house and humidity has been in the mid 60's. I am going to call them today, but not really sure if this is an install issue, an air sealing issue (remember they sealed my attic and a little in basement. I don't know if this humidity is a valid complaint or somethihing I have to live with. It doesn't make sense to me because my infiltration (when they did the blower door) was not bad. Its not like this is a very leaky house, probably average to above average as far as tightness.

You blower speed is probably set too high. I think you bought the Carrier multispeed furnace. The two speeds for the AC have to be set up correctly at the time of installation. Ideally it should be set to 350CFM, but no higher than 400CFM.

I feel there is an installation problem. Humidity in the mid 60s is unacceptable. How long are the AC run times? Can you tell when the AC is running in the low stage?

No idea what stage it runs in. It is running longer on these hot days, but by no means constantly. Today it dipped near 60%, but it went back up. I mentioned the blower speed to the tech, not sure if he adjusted it or not. Yes, it's the multi speed.

I did call today. Liz said that it was documented by Jeff that he wanted to talk to the install team, but no idea if he had. She promised someone would call me back after they pulled my original install info. If they didn't she would.....no call. Not surprised. Obviously they are busy this week. Let's see if they call tomorrow.

I did buy a new temp and humidity gauge today. I set it next to my downstairs one, by tonight it was almost identical to the one I had downstairs. My bedroom is right now 73 and 58% humidity on the gauge, but this gauge is 8 points low, putting it at 66, just like downstairs where the 2 match. It doesn't feel bad, but I know it's not ideal conditions, and I wanted the lower humidity so I could set higher temp....

Maybe I'll hear from them tomorrow. Do I have a legitimate complaint?

I think you have good reason to complain. You spent a lot of money on the adding insulation and sealing the attic. We have had a week with no rain and temperatures hitting 90 degrees. You have the indoor temp set at 73 and the best you can do is 66% indoor humidity! Something is not right.

Are you running the fan constantly? It is best the fan is set in the auto mode during the summer. Running the fan constantly tends to increase the humidity.

Do you feel a difference in air speed between the high and low stages? Are you keeping the windows closed at night?

Fan is in auto. Windows closed

But, we must Live different new jerseys! It poured here on Monday, twice, and also yesterday we had a serious storm roll through, not sure if it rained overnight but it might storm here later tonight. It has been horribly sticky.

It did get down to 55% for a moment, I think ow it is 58, but I think the stat is set to 72. I shouldn't have to set it to 72 when it is 90 out to make it run long enough. I left a message today with the "service" as all the office lines were busy (understandable due to weather) lets see if I hear from them. Luckily, I have finally joined the smart phone world and the xfinity app let's me turn call forwarding on and off from my cell phone, so I won't miss a call!

I'll keep you advised. From what I read it is bad to over 55% for extended periods.

How long are the runtimes & the off-times?

It will need to be running very long runtime cycles at a low 350-CFM per ton.

If it's not running "extra long on-time cycles," the A/C is sized a bit too big...

I will try to pay attention to the run times. It is set to 3 cycles per hour, but I understand that to mean it will still run continously until the temp is met, but will run 3 cycles once it is met, to check the temp and to circulate the air. Correct?

It will take longer to cool when it is at a lower cfm, right? I bet they set it higher to avoid complaints on cooling. Will the lower cfm still manage to cool the upstairs effectively? The salesman mentioned a stronger blower to help reach the upstairs, which makes the likelihood of the cfm being too high more likely.

I will pay attention this week and hopefully they will come out or at least call me soon.

Mike, another small storm just rolled through...78 degrees and 81% humidity per the sensor on my front porch. Inside it is 71 degrees and 60% humidity. It feels fine though, a bit chilly even, but I think I get colder at night...hubby likes it cool.

In central NJ it was about 90 degrees in the afternoon, then we had a brief shower in the evening and outdoor humidity went up. My Carrier Infinity AC was still able to hold a 40% indoor humidity at 79 degrees. This is why I think your system needs to be evaluated.

The three cycles per hour means the AC will only run three times within one hour. If you have three short cycles, then the thermostat will wait until one hour has elapsed in order to start another three cycles. It may mean the temperature will rise about the set point. It is not the best solution for increasing the length of the AC on time, but it helps.

Do you have a register close to the thermostat? If you do try closing it. Sometimes the thermostat receives a blast of cold air from a nearly register and turns off quickly. This contributes to short cycling.

You would only notice the 350 to 400 CFM air flow difference when you are trying to cool down the house after a temperature set back. It may take a little longer to cool down but not significantly. I would not worry about it.

The supervisor will come first thing Monday. Today we got down to the mid 50's, about 56% at 72 . That was about mid afternoon, and it did feel better than 65% More huge storms this evening. Outdoor temp is down to 73, humidity in the 90's and it is 61-65 % at 73 degrees. Strange that two gauges side by side sometimes read the same and sometimes 4%apart....

My doors stick when it's more humid and were not sticking this afternoon.

Cindy,

It has been incredibly humid these past few days in central NJ. I assume you are also getting the daily rains and the temps in the 80s down in your area.

Did the supervisor inspect your HVAC system?

Sort of....he mainly noted the humidity was, in fact, 70% on Monday, and much of this week. System set to 72 degrees. Told him what Jeff checked the prior week. Agrees something is off and he wouldn't expect this in an air sealed house. Mentioned may need to redo blower door test to,make sure properly sealed.

I mentioned slowing blower down to 350. He looked at like I was crazy because my blower capacity is 2000. I later realized you guys meant PER TON! That would be 1400. I don't know what it is set on, but I've read ac is usually high and heat is low or med. today was first dry day, but still humid out. House still in upper 60's.
I'm beginning to wonder if it will ever lower without a lot of dry days in a row. Maybe it is just too much to be able to catch up. I think I will borrow a dehumidifier and see if it can help.

Oh, the supv said he will tell the "guru" in the office who should be able to figure out what to do. The supv was a waste of time. Did he think I was lying? I don't know what he thought he'd accomplish coming out....he didn't DO anything.

Didn't hear yet from Carey, the guru. Left a message wednesday.
Also, my elec usage was only 5% lower than last June.

Another blower door test! In my opinion this is a waste of time. You should tell the supervisor he needs to send his "guru" to your house immediately. I assume guru means he knows how to adjust the blower speed.

I realize we have had a period of high humidity, but a indoor humidity of 70 percent at 72 degrees is unacceptable. You should not have to pay for the electricity to run a dehumidifier 24/7. You are not going to be happy when you find out how much it will cost you in dehumdifiers and electricity.

FInally, I get another guy out here. He shows up at my door with NO idea of the situation. Seriously? "Guru" on the phone gave me the idea he'd fill his guy in.

I explain it and to put myself out of the misery of letting him bumble around for a while, I tell him it's probably the blower. Why waste time waiting for him to figure it out.

Well, my delightful 59TP5 Carrier furnace....has terminals for COM, HI HT, COOL, LO HT, SPARE, SPARE

I guess I cheaped out so I only get one blower speed for cool, who knew?? (though I never thought of a 2-stage ht/cl as cheap--but these techs act like everybody has inifinity. I get it now why they push it so hard...less work for them and less brainpower needed)

Anyway..the grey wire was connected to cool. Of course the gray wire is the one the little sticky on the door suggests, but I have a 5 ton blower capacity and a 4 ton a/c.

SO, according to the chart (in the installation manual) says the grey wire will run the blower at a range of 2340 at 0.1 sp to 1605 at 1.0 sp. Tech today (without measuring) is pretty sure I have the "normal" of between 0.4-0.6sp. He sees no reason based on my system, layout, ducts etc why it would be higher. At a pressure of 0.5 the grey wire delivers 2110cfm. Today's tech knows this is too high for a 4-ton ac and is quite sure that is the problem. This board and I knew this, why did it take weeks to figure out? The option we chose was the blue wire which is 1555cfm for .5 sp. It's a lot lower so hopefully it will work. Didn't want to go too low as I want enough force to get upstairs. If it isn't enough we can lower.

He had to use the blue wire to get this speed. The blue was on the heater before and the choice was to bump it up to 1755 or down to 1350. I went with the 1755 because it is for high heat and I'd rather have it too high rather than too low. Heat was fine at the blue wire setting.

Will the lower cfm (500 lower) also make a difference in electric usage? My bills did not achieve much savings over last year. Does too high of a blower speed make it harder to cool the air because it is going to fast, or is it just a humidity problem that comes from too high cfm? Seems like a faster blower would use more electric.

I'd like to write a letter to the company to "inform" them. Not sure what to say. If this blower speed has cost me more $ in electric I would like to at least notify them.

One final thought....which really irks me. The footnotes in the chart state that speeds over 1800cfm should have bottom return, or 2 side ones. I have one side one. Obviously the guys just did what they are used to and never checked my a/c size. Regardless of the type of unit, the fan setting was too high for my return. Tech thinks they may be so used to the communicating ones that they just did it how they usually do, expecting the unit to control itself. I find it hard to believe that a majority of the customers can afford infinity.

Thanks for listening and advising. I'll post back on how the levels are.

Cindy,

How does it feel that you are able to tell the HVAC contractor Guru how to fix your problem?

Now that you some basics about air flow and cooling, isn't it obvious the air speed setting needs to be checked when you install a new furnace? Now you know why a good installation is important. You could have been suffering with high humidity for years because somebody forgot to swap the blue wire for the gray wire.

This guy must be a real Guru since he can visually look at your duct work and determine the static pressure at a given air speed. Does he have X-ray vision? He should measure the static pressure. I highly doubt your static pressure is 0.5, but it is probably not as high as 1.0, or at least let's hope it is not.

Out of curiosity I looked at the 59TP5 installation manual. The blue wire setting should give you around 1400 CFM air flow at a static pressure of 0.8 which is exactly where you want to be for the high stage of cooling.

By the way, you do have two air flows for the 2-stage AC. Here is what the manual states:

"If a two--stage air conditioning or heat pump is installed, the Low Cooling Speed is the same speed tap as the Low Heat speed (LO HT)."

The low stage AC will be the same as the low stage heat air flow. Do you know what color wire is connected to low heat?

Not everyone can afford the Infinity. However the Infinity set up seems somewhat idiot proof in that it is variable speed and has a communicating thermostat. The installer does not have to worry about setting blower speeds.

Hopefully you will see an improvement in the humidity. We are getting more temps in the 80s and showers again. This should be a good test.

"One final thought....which really irks me. The footnotes in the chart state that speeds over 1800cfm should have bottom return, or 2 side ones. I have one side one. Obviously the guys just did what they are used to and never checked my a/c size. Regardless of the type of unit, the fan setting was too high for my return." Cindywhitall.

How could they NOT follow that mandate? That system needs 'two' large Return Air filter areas!

The total Return air filter are needs to be sized at 325-sq.ins per ton of cooling; 4-Ton needs 1300-sq.ins., that will get the air velocity through the filter under 300-fpm.

That would be 650-sq.ins., per filter area; or like 26X 26, or 26X24; which you will have difficulty getting within the ducts; may need a filter cabinet setup.

Mike, I just know low heat is not grey, blue or yellow and everything seemed fine with the heat, comfort was good, humidity never got too low...I didn't even get the usual dry sore throat I get when the heat first starts, AND bills were improved.

Here's a doozy....I tried to go look and see, but the cover isn't lined up just right and I can't turn one of the little locking knobs to get it open. It is misaligned and there is a tiny tiny whistle coming from the door unless I push on it. I just put in a call to have someone stop by because I am not going to force it and break it....

udarrell, I have a 20x25x4 filter in there. I think the filter is actually bigger than the ducts that feed into it and out of it, but that was probably the case with my old system because it was 20x25x1, but the ducts were not changed very much. This new system does have a filter cabinet that my old one didn't. It's basically a little sheet-metal box with a door that opens on the side to change the filter. Is that enough return air filter?

I will probably eventually write another useless letter to point out the blower speed wiring error based on the tonnage of my unit and also the double error about that footnote applying with the setting they had chosen. The other wiring error was during install when they wired it as a one-stage to the stat. I don't expect anything, but maybe it will help future customers. I may also point out that I suggested the blower speed issue to the guy they sent out LAST week, who didn't even check it.

Mike, I can't find where it says the first stage heat and a/c are the same as you mentioned. I have a booklet with a blue cover. It is "installation, start-up, operating and service and maintenance instructions"

I was thinking about it and am wondering if the fan is the problem after all if it is as you say....and low a/c runs on lower blower like the heat does. That would mean the blower might not be the problem as I'm assuming it hasn't needed to run on high very often anyway. I almost hope it is just one blower speed ( the "Cool" tap) because then it might solve my problem!

Just for fun I changed the cph to 2 from 3. I know 3 is recommended, but I read somewhere that making it run less, but longer cycles might help. To be honest, I really don't understand cph that well. I always thought the units run when the temp calls for it and stop when they don't. Does cph mean it will run twice and hour whether it needs it or not? Seems like a waste of energy to me. Figured I'd try it since I do know longer run times help pull out the humidity. No real change today, but it's been pretty cloudy and probably has run shorter cycles due to temp. I want a hot sunny day!

I comment I posted is near the bottom of page 64 in the document listed below.

You want to verify the thermostat is wired correctly to control both stages of the AC. I would not be surprised if it is only controlling the high stage. The thermostat should have connections to Y1 (low stage) and Y2 (high stage).

Two cycles per hours means the AC limited to cycles during a one hour period. It will only turn on when there is a call for heating or cooling. In my opinion it is a band aid fix.

Here is a link that might be useful: Carrier 59TP5 installation manual

Mike, Spoke to the hvac guy and told him what you pointed out about the lo-cool and that therefore switching the "cool" tap wire might not help. Told him if system is meant to run mainly on low for longer times then the gray wire may not have been the problem, and either of the other two wires would seem to be ok. (red/orange)

I mentioned that sometimes the humidity will drop to around 58% from 68% in the late afternoon, but by bedtime it has usually crept back up. He thought that was very odd.

Do you have any thoughts? The attic was sealed and the basement had a little sealing work done. I have never had a drop of water in the basement, nor wet spots on the walls. What would cause the humidity to go back up so quickly?

Today is wet and cool, not a good day to test out the new wire setup since the a/c isn't needing to run. Today's indoor humidity is 68% at 73-74 degrees. It is raining out

The hottest part of the day is in the late afternoon. This is when the heating load is highest and the AC is running for longer periods of time. The longer run times allows the air to dry out. In the evening the heating load is less and the AC runs for shorter periods of time. The humidity level is going to rise.

In my opinion the biggest source of outside air infiltration is through the windows and doors and not the attic. This is how the humidity is entering the house. Humidity is also coming up from the basement.

I still find it hard to believe that you are getting poor humidity control with a 2-stage AC. Have you noticed a change in the run times since the air speed was changed? Are you able to tell when the AC is in low stage and high stage? If not then I think the low stage speed needs adjustment.

Cindy,

We are having a record heat wave in NJ this week. The temperatures are in the upper 90s. How is your AC performing? What is the indoor temperature and humidity level?

Hi Mike,

AC set at 72 though I'd be comfortable with it higher. I want it to run to take out humidity. It was set at 75 and room temp was 75 at 12:30 when I got home. I turned it down to 72. The stat is reading 74 temp while still set at 72 so it's running. The room with my weather station says its 73.3 and 55%, so it dropped about 2 degrees in 3 hours. The compressor should be in the full sun by now if that makes a difference. It does feel like a cooler 72-73 when the humidity is lower.

Indoor Humidity was in the low 60's this morning. Apparently on these hot days it is running quite long to get down to set temp. I think I got % down to low 50's one day this week.

I'm thinking now maybe the problem is my basement causing the humidity to rise when the ac isn't running. Today Basement is at 67%, temp about 67 also. unfinished, one supply that is blocked off with cover and tape, no returns. The basement was up to 75% sometimes last week (wet week). I've never had wet walls or water in the basement. No mold, no sweating ductwork. Still haven't found out which wire is my low ac, but I assume it's running on hi-stage with the temps outside.

I don't understand when it goes to low from high. I assume it started in high when I turned it down from 75 to 72, but when will it bump to low stage? Or does the outside temp make it stay in high?

The fact that it has been running long on theses hot hot days and takes a long time to get down to 73 makes me think maybe it is NOT that oversized (but maybe just a little or it wouldn't get that low at all)? Last year when we were hitting the 99's for several days I had trouble getting the old unit down to 78. It wasn't comfortable at 78 .

If you are running the AC down to 72, then you are not going to be happy when you get your electric bill. Even in this hot weather you are still unable to get below 55%.

Can you tell when the AC is operating in the low stage? If you can't then this needs to be addressed.