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cajun_fusion

Help for new homeowner - furnace/water heater/AC

Cajun_Fusion
9 years ago

Just closed on a house last week. It's an older house that needs some fixing right away. Some basic house info:
- New York suburb (North Jersey)
- 1958 built
- 2500 sq ft (1200 2nd floor, 1300 1st floor, also 1000 partial finished basement)
- 2nd floor covered by separate HVAC, not in scope here
- Currently, the furnace and water heater are in basement, vented through chimney, I'd like to convert to direct vent to outside. AC is outside. These units are 20+ years.

First contractor quoted these. What do you think about pricing and which can be improved upon?
Install:
New Trane 95% High efficiency 100,000 BTU variable speed 2-stage furnace
New Trane 4 -ton 16 seer R410a ozone-friendly freon air conditioning unit
New Trane high efficiency up/down flow R410a coil
New Honeywell Whole-House Media Air Cleaner
New Aprilaire A-600 Whole-House Automatic Bypass Humidifier
New Nest 7-day programmable thermostat
New AO Smith 50 gallon Hot Water Heater direct vent
Included:
New ductwork
New line set
New pad for outdoor unit
PVC piping
Removal and disposal of old unit as per EPA specifications and regulations
115v Condensate pump
10 year Manufacturer Warranty
2 year Labor Warranty
Price:
$12,500.00*
$11,000.00* - for 14 Seer single stage furnace
Upgrades:
Trane Pure Effects Electronic Air Cleaner $950.00
Aprilaire 800 Steam Humidifier $1,600.00

Comments (9)

  • mike_home
    9 years ago

    I think a 100K BTU furnace and a 4 ton AC for a first floor consisting of 1300 sq. feet is very over sized. You need to find a contractor who will do a proper heating and cooling load calculation. Get an HVAC system that is too big is just as bad a getting one that is too small.

    Did this contractor provide model numbers of the equipment? If not you don't have a valid quote. You also need to know what coil he is providing.

    You have new duct work on the list. Is all the first floor duct work being replaced?

    Did you want a direct vent hot water heater? You could still vent through the chimney if it is properly lined.

  • tigerdunes
    9 years ago

    Agree with Mike especially about the oversizing. I would think a 60 K high eff two stage var speed furnace with a 2 1/2 ton AC condenser. Can't imagine what that dealer is thinking unless there is a missing piece in the size of area to be cooled/heated. Basements if below grade usually have low load requirements.

    IMO

  • Cajun_Fusion
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'll ask the contractor for model numbers.

    The contractor was saying that the 1st floor and partially finished basement need this capacity. And saying the ductwork in the basement is not appropriately sized. The current, old furnace is an 80%, 100k unit. The current, old water heat is chimney vented, I'd like to convert it to direct vent as well.

    What else to ask the contractor? I have a 2nd contractor coming back with estimates today.

  • mike_home
    9 years ago

    Your old furnace had an output of 80K BTU, the one being proposed will have an output of 95K BTU.

    Do you know the size of the current AC? How well is it working so far?

    I realize a house built in the 50s may not have insulation up to today's standards, but I would not expect to see the sizes being proposed.

    Ask the contractor to show you how he calculated the required sizes. If he can't then continue getting more quotes from contractors.

  • Cajun_Fusion
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The current looks like a 3 ton unit, it's 20 years old and working, but I'm thinking to replace if the price is right.

    What is the rule of calculation for BTU vs square footage? I was told 40 BTU/sq ft. And 1st floor plus basement together is 2300 sq ft, which translates to 92000 BTU needs, is this the correct way to approach? How about the Aprilaire steam humidifier upgrade?

  • mike_home
    9 years ago

    What you are describing is called the rule of thumb for HVAC sizing. It is the wrong way to do it and results in systems that are over sized. It is a form of guessing in my opinion. This is the way HVAC contractors who are lazy and can't be bothered to spend the time to calculate the requirements of your house.

    Over sized systems cost more to install, are inefficient, noisy, uncomfortable, and die prematurely. The only positive is they are more profitable for the HVAC contractor.

    I would not install a humidifier unless I really needed it. Are you currently having low humidity problems? Low humidity is usually a sign of leaking windows and doors. The steam humidifiers are supposed to be the best.

  • Cajun_Fusion
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you for the explanation. I'm learning all about HVAC as I go.

  • Cajun_Fusion
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Estimate from 2nd contractor. What do you think about pricing and which can be improved upon?
    - Install RUUD 92% hi-efficient furnace vent PVC flue outside home $3400
    - Install RUUD 3 ton 13 seer A/C unit with matching coil replace copper lineset $3,600

    Note - This contractor doesn't do hot water heater, due to plumbing license.

  • tigerdunes
    9 years ago

    Don't accept a quote without model numbers!