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snsn_gw

AC quote in NE Florida

snsn
9 years ago

Hi,

We just received our 4th quote tonight for replacement of our AC system which hasn't worked properly since we bought our home 7 years ago. Our home was built in 1996. The outside unit looks to be original; whereas, the inside has a 2004 manufacturer's date. 2 of the 4 contractors are suggesting Bryant, 1 is quoting York and tonight's contractor seems to really like Amana; but, gave us numbers on Bryant as well at my request. We have a 2,700 sf home with a bonus room upstairs, dual zone with Honeywell TruZone panel. Truzone was put in by us in 2010. With the exception of today, most of the companies spent 30-45 minutes inspecting our house before providing us a quote. The contractor (owner) that came today was here almost 3 hours. As a side note: the company that installed our air handler wouldn't even come out when we called the 1st year we moved in, said they don't service dual zones, really?

Here are the quotes:

Company A: Material and labor to remove existing 5 ton Heat Pump System and install a new hi-efficiency Bryant Heat Pump System. Install new programmable thermostat, auxiliary drain pan with 2 safety condensate float switches, 10 kW heat strip. Flush the existing refrigerant lines to adapt to the new 410A refrigerant application. Ten year warranty on all parts by the manufacturer and one year warranty on the labor. Note: Damper system to be set with dampers open and disconnected. Use one thermostat to control the new system. Doesn't include permit or any electrical work, if needed

13 Seer Rated equipment $5,485.00 213cna060/Fb4cnf060t

15 Seer Rated equipment $6,990.00 215bna060/Fx40nf061t

Company B: Adapt ductwork for new air handler, install 4" filtration system, remove zone application and install thermostat in central location, 1 free year of preventative maintenance. 10 year warranty on parts / 1 year on labor. Includes permit.

13 Seer 5-ton HP system. York YHJD60/AHR60 10 kW Comfort Control: thermostat $7,414

14 Seer 5-ton HP system. York YHJD60/AHE60 10kW
Comfort Control: thermostat $7,754

14 Seer 5-ton HP system. Carrier 25HCB360/FV4CNB006
10kW Comfort Control: thermidistat $8,610 after rebate

Company C: Installation of new 5 ton air to air heat pump system: Condenser, Air handler with 10kw heaters, (2) digital thermostats, and drain pan with condensate float switch. Tie into existing refrigerant lines (cleaned), condensate line, electrical, and duct system.

Option 1: Carrier / Bryant 15 SEER 410A refrigerant:������������������..��. $6,282.00
Condenser 215BNA060, Air Handler FX4DNF061 (Digital programmable thermostat)
Option 2: Carrier / Bryant 13 SEER 410A refrigerant:������������������..��. $5,301.00
Condenser 213CNA060, Air Handler FB4CNA060
Additional Option: Install Honeywell 2 zone True zone system in future:�����������.. $978.00

Note: Manufactures warranty of 10 years parts and one year labor for OWNER-OCCUPIED SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL APPLICATIONS when equipment is registered within 30 days of installation otherwise manufactures warranty is 5 years parts and one year labor.

Company D (applied discounts from our local utility company as he is a preferred contractor in addition to Angie's List and for cash on delivery to be paid after the work has been completed):

Option 1: 5 ton Amana Heat Pump ASZ140601 15 Seer 10kW. CHPF4860D6 & MBVC2000. 5 ton Amana Variable Speed/Horizontal. Dual flood switch, flush & pressure test liquid line, flush & pressure test suction line, clean & clear, reuse existing 2 zones, new plenum w/20" feed supply duct, new plenum w/20" feed return duct, new platform horizontal kit, sanitize ducts, seal ducts, extend 10" duct to 2nd zone, modify air handler placement to correct air flow issues, concrete a/c pad with anchors. 10 years warranty on parts (condenser & a/h only), 2 years on labor (condenser & a/h only), 5 years on new ductwork and limited lifetime condenser replace for compressor failure. $6,226 (includes permit & taxes) CoD

Option 2: Same install with Bryant 14.5 SEER system. Only difference in warranty is that Bryant doesn't offer the limited lifetime on condenser replacement. 215BNA06000/FV4CNB006T00 $6,556 (includes permit & taxes) CoD

We really liked Company D as he went into the attic with my husband and checked the ductwork & dampers as requested. I wasn't home at the time; but, my husband said he spent over 40 minutes calculating air flow and placement of our air handler. He said that was our biggest issue as there was not enough clearance for the returns, etc. This is similar to what Company C told me yesterday; however, he was not as detailed and he only walked into our attic to look at the ductwork whereas Company D actually moved around & checked. Ductwork wasn't sealed at all in certain places and 1 damper fell off. Hubby likes the Amana because of the limited lifetime warranty; however, I see alot of negative reviews on this brand and am a little leery. We have been without AC for over 1 week and it is starting to get unbearable due to the humidity. The first three were referrals from family & friends with only 2 having minimal reviews. The last one was obtained thru our local utility provider and found on Angie's List. He has over 400 reviews and is branching into my area from central Florida. Some of the reviews are from customers in my area.

Any feedback on above is appreciated. Thank you!

This post was edited by snsn on Fri, May 16, 14 at 7:29

Comments (8)

  • snsn
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Updating post to show placement of air handler. Company D stated he would bet this wasn't completed legally as it wouldn't pass inspection. I just completed a permit search on our house and no permits were obtained after the house was built (other than when we put a pool in 2010). The air handler has a 2004 manufacture date. No wonder the company that installed this wouldn't come out to service the unit in 2008.

    This post was edited by snsn on Fri, May 16, 14 at 7:37

  • udarrell
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There is no way U should need a 5-Ton heat pump!
    A 2700-sf home should be made energy efficient enough so that a properly installed & efficiently functioning 3.5-Ton would effectively cool your home.

    A 5-Ton will nearly always result in all kinds of airflow problems...

    Here is a link that might be useful: A/C Blog

  • mike_home
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Someone needs to do a load calculation to determine the size of the AC. The 5 ton seems over sized even for Florida.

    Company D appears to be taking the time to inspect your house in order to a do quality installation. Did he say anything about the size?

    "Hubby likes the Amana because of the limited lifetime warranty"

    Are you sure about the Amana warranty? Are there any catches?

  • tigerdunes
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Some questions...

    "We just received our 4th quote tonight for replacement of our AC system which hasn't worked properly since we bought our home 7 years ago."

    What does that statement mean specifically "system hasn't worked properly since we bought home 7 yrs ago."

    What was the purpose of the Honeywell zoning system and how has it performed? Did this dealer quote on new system?

    You have been quoted low end Bryant Legacy series. If you intend to use HW zoning control and why wouldn't you, I would want 2 stage Preferred Series Model #226 with var speed blowers and Edge Thermidistat.

    IMO

  • snsn
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mike_home: I did email Company D earlier and here is his response:

    "I can assure you that the 5 ton is correct. A 3.5 ton could do it based on today's building efficiency standards, but your home was built 14 years ago. Those standards were based around 500 Sq ft of living space per ton. The 5 ton will cool and dehumidify your house very efficiently once it is installed properly. A 3.5 ton would not even fill your existing ducts properly to provide adequate air flow."

    tigerdunes: Since purchasing our home, we have never had consistent temps in all rooms. Some rooms were much warmer than others, especially our upstairs bonus room which was my oldest daughter's room and is now a game room. The temperature difference ranged anywhere between 8-15 degrees higher. We changed to the Honeywell zoning at the guidance of our old AC guy, who is now out of business. I honestly can't say there was any difference in performance probably because we have been air conditioning the attic due to the ductwork (based on Company D's inspection).

  • udarrell
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, let us look at the code in 1997 the slab edge was our-3.5;
    the walls were R-19;
    the ceilings were R-30;
    the windows were 15% of the floor area and window U-factor was .5 or R-2 the SHGC was 0.66.

    Now you can take those numbers and put them into the free load Calc that I either posted last time or will post this time in fact I may go ahead and do a load Calc for your home and post the results here.

    However, in the meantime please work on the LoadCalc yourself, or others on this forum can go ahead and do a load Calc for you since I have not it available to work on it at this time.

    I will say that in 1997 I don't believe that you still had 500 ft.² per ton as a basis for sizing air-conditioning systems; that 500 square feet per ton goes back to the 1980s, in my opinion, and maybe even back to the 1970s and is in no way an accurate way to size air-conditioning system.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Free online load-calc

  • mike_home
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You need to do a load calculation. Either you do it, or you pay someone to do it.

    My house was built in 1983 in NJ. My second floor load calculation yielded about 700 sq. feet per ton. This is with a R-30 insulated attic. You should not need more than 4 tons. I know you live in Florida. You want to properly sized in order to reduce the humidity. If it is over sized you will feel cold and clammy. In addition the AC will be noisy and waste energy.

  • udarrell
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tell everyone what direction the front door faces; plus the outside facing wall area on each E,W,N,S facing side. Length of wall X's the height is sf area...

    Use the 2700-sf size.
    the slab edge was R-3.5;
    I sometimes use voice typing software due to carpal tunnel in both hands; it heard 'our' instead of R..

    Oversizing heat pump & A/C equipment is one of the worst things you can do!

    Gainesville, FL summer 2.5% design is 93°F or 77°F +46% RH Jacksonville is 94°F 77°F or 46% with a high count of grains of moisture due to the high-temp.

    In your humid climate a little under-sizing might provide more overall comfort at those varying conditions!

    I am still holding to the 3.5-Ton; with some home energy retrofitting, etc. At least NO more than 4-Ton... everything will operate more efficiently than with a troublesome 5-Ton!

    You can run a calc figuring the retro-work in it.