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Rheem or Comfortmaker

Posted by ciucca (My Page) on
Thu, May 12, 11 at 21:56

So far I have 2 bids, and am waiting on 2 more. I would like to know what the experts here think of these systems, and the price. Right now I am leaning toward Rheem, since I am replacing a 25 year old Rheem, that had very low maintenance cost over its life. I am in central NJ

Rheem:

RGFG12ERCMS
RARL 4 ton
RCFM Coil
Price includes everything necessary to install system $10K

Comfortmaker:

c9mvx110
edm4x48ja coil
cxa642gka condenser
Price $8k

what do you think of the systems and price? Like I said I never heard of comfortmaker, and I've had good luck with Rheem. I'm not too thrilled with the 2K difference in price.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

ciucca
what size home?

what size and eff furnace are you replacing?

what size AC are you replacing?

post back.

IMO


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

definitely expensive quotes in my opinion.


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

To answer TigerDunes:

Home size: 2100 sq ft, with a family room with a wall of windows, a lot of ceiling and crawl space rooms. House had a lot of odd additions and has odd angles.

Replacing a 120BTU Rheem single stage furnace, 3.5 ton AC

To answer neohioheatpump: Your telling me it is expensive!!
Unfortunately I live in a town in north NJ (Union county) close to New York, with a lot of Wall Street people living here, and I think that is why the prices are higher


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

ciucca

prices in NJ can be extreme and especially like OP says about proximity to NYC.

The Rheem is a nicer system but you are being oversized on the furnace and possibly on AC condenser. I would request a load calc on both heating and cooling.

The Rheem furnace has full modulating and communicating capability if the correct and recommended Rheem thermostat is specified.

see link.

IMO

http://www.rheem.com/product.aspx?id=320E9865-78E0-4ECF-9DA9-37F9BD52FD39


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

I would like to get a load calc, but all the HVACs I've talked to will not do the load calc until I sign the contract.
So at this point it is the price and equipment I am considering, I assume that once the calcs are done, the size of equipment will be adjusted.

One more contractor came over to give a est. He sells coleman Echelon, how does that compare to the rheem and comfortmaker?

If you had to rate which would be 1 and which would be 3.

I appreciate the answers so far, they have been very helpful.


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

I think coleman is good stuff. Thats the same as york and luxaire. Go with the mid-grade equipment. It has a nice cabinet not too mention a compressor blanket. Its very quiet. I have a heatpump version of the mid-grade 14.5 seer version. I've been totally satisfied. I personally think upgrading to the heatpump is worth it but some people have expensive electricity which doesn't make it as worthwhile.


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

The 4 ton condenser and 120K BTU furnace is making the quote higher than it needs to be. I would not be surprised if the the requirements came out to 3 ton for cooling and 100K BTU for heating.

The contractor I used is in Hopewell, NJ. I don't think he will go to Union. Keep calling contractors and ask if they will do a calculation prior to signing a contract.


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

Ciucca

As mentioned in prior post, York/Luxaire/Coleman are all the same HVAC company. Definitely worth looking into their 97% eff full modulating furnace. That would be the only model I would consider. And if going full modulating high eff furnace,I would forget pairing with a heat pump and would go straight AC 15 SEER model.

Insist on a load calc both heating and cooling before signing any paperwork. You are being oversized!

IMO


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

I'm south of you near Philly.

You are Definitely oversized, both in heating and cooling.

I have an RGFD & RARL combo, servicing a 2500 SF house, and also found no contractors willing to do a heat calc. Enter HVAC-Calc. For $50, you can do it yourself.

My 125K furnace was replace with a 90K unit which was still oversized, but needed the larger blower. My original a/c was a 4 ton unit. I specked a unit @ 3.5 tons, but my contractor 'recommended' the 2 stage 4 ton unit. In retrospect, I think the single stage unit would've been better.

The RGFG unit is the new communicating model. You should be provided a (new) model 501 thermostat. The older model will work, but will not provide the communicating functions.

FYI, my heat loss was calculated at 59,600 BTUH.

V


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RE: re: Rheem or Comfortmaker

Addendum:

How noisy is your system? The new unit, with VS blower wants to blow more air. Without necessary ductwork changes, your system could be very noisy (assuming you stay with the 120/4 ton setup).

V


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

Thanks, for all the responses so far.

I think I am better prepared to continue on my contractor search. If anyone knows of a good HVAC co. in union NJ, please reply.

I didn't realize it would be this difficult to find a good HVAC contractor.


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker v

Veesubotee,

my current 120BTU single stage system is not that bad in regards to noise. Mostly you can hear the rush of air when the blower is running. I cannot say how noisy or quiet it is since I've grown used to it over 14 years. The AC condenser is another issue, it is off the patio and in the summer when I sit outside it is obnoxiously noisy.

I'm not sure the AC is over sized, since during 90+ days it runs constantly (PSE&G loves that) and can never get the house below 78 degrees on the 1st floor and 83 on the second.

I would love to get the upstairs more comfortable, without spending on 2 zone, or second compressor.


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

Another factor regarding the size of the furnace: The furnace provides outstanding comfort. Since you are north of me (with a little less square footage, let's assume that your heat loss is about the same as mine (55 - 60K).

A 120K Mod will put out about 45,000 BTU at its lowest output. This would equate to your (estimated) heat loss at 28 degrees, meaning that the furnace would not run constantly (albeit at a 40% rate [you want this])until OD temperature is somewhat above that. So at your winter design temperature, your furnace would 'modulate' through 3 stages (5%) or so. A great sacrifice of comfort.

If I were in your situation, I would do my own (which I did) heat calc. In all likelihood, you might get by with a 75, but definitely, not more than a 90. I would also look into the possibility of installing a mini-split a/c for your second floor. No ductwork is necessary, and piping would be installed in the attic. The 90, BTW, will support a 4 ton a/c if you go that route. A 75 would take you down to about 0 degrees at 66 degrees indoor temp; a 90 will go to about -9. Again, these are estimates.

V


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

I purchased the HVAC-calc version for $50 and I came up with the following numbers, I adjusted the OD temps to 100 for summer and 0 for winter, which we hit a few times the past few years:

Heat Loss: 66,388
Heat Gain: 40,278

If I read the instruction correctly the 3.5 ton unit is the correct size. The rheem is a 2 stage condenser so that may be ok also.

The furnace if I apply the 20-25% adjust rule should be 79,655 - 82,985, so just an 80K-90K furnace should be ok?

My house has a lot of windows and older section not properly insulated.

I now see I should be around 80K BTU and will see who recommends something close to that. I would love a mini split for the second floor but I think that would blow past my budget.

What is the opinion on 2 stage compressors? Are they the right way to go or not, the opinions I've researched seem to be divided.

thanks again


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

Vee is absolutely correct.

There are some brands/mdls in high eff furnaces including full modulating that have 4 ton rated blower in 80 KBTU size.

As far as temp difference on second floor, dealer should provide a complete evaluation of ductwork system including size of supplies and number/size of returns and insulation properties.

nothing wrong with 2 stg condenders other than added cost.

IMO


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

Tiger and Vee, thanks so much for your advice. I will go back to the bidders I received and any new bidders to see if they will do a load calc.

One last question, I'm confused if I should insist on new line sets, a few contractors said they could flush the existing ones. Do you think new line sets are mandatory on a replacement job, especially since the system now use R22 freon?


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

ciucca

It is absolutely a must that refrigerant lineset is sized correctly for any new outside condenser. If it's not, you are cheating yourself and new condenser's capabilities and might possibly even have problems down the road.

I always prefer that lineset be replaced for any new system as long as accessibility is not an issue. size though is key to the new condenser and must match mfg specs.

IMO


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

"I purchased the HVAC-calc version for $50 and I came up with the following numbers, I adjusted the OD temps to 100 for summer and 0 for winter, which we hit a few times the past few years:

Heat Loss: 66,388
Heat Gain: 40,278"

I believe the program already includes a fudge factor. By increasing the loss or gain beyond your area design temperature, you are looking at heavy oversizing.

What town did you use for your climate conditions. I used Newark to approximate your situation (similar to mine, which are 14/91.

Remember, the design temperature (theoretically) is reached about 2% of the time. Other times, your system is already oversized.

An accurate calc is essential. Also, you need to consider the Sensible and Latent heat gains, and make sure that your system will meet your sensible requirements.

What are your indoor temperatures? A/c rating are quoted at 95* outdoor, and 80* indoors. Each degree more extreme of those numbers decreases your system's capacity. Just something to consider regarding sensible requirements.

V


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

ciucca

It should be said that design temps for outside temp both cooling and heating should be on an average with perhaps a small fudge factor.

An inside temp of 80 deg in cooling mode is really absurd for most homeowners especially considering humid climates/locations.

IMO


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

Ciucca,

I see you are getting frustrated in trying to find a good HVAC contractor. There are many located near Union.

Here is my suggestion. Go to the Carrier website and find the dealer locator section. Put in your zip code and search for dealers in your area. Look for contractors who are Factory Authorized and Nate certified. I tried the Union zip code and found one which looks interesting (Meyer and Depew in Kenilworth). Call them and explain your situation. If they sound promising invite them over for an estimate. If not, then try another.

I also suggest you stay with one of the major brands (Carrier, Trane, Lennox, etc.). This makes it easier to compare quotes.


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

Mike, Thanks. I've been doing that, what I noticed is that the HVAC cont. I really want to come over are in no hurry to bid and sometimes it is hard to get a call back for an appointment. Some HVACs want to come over right away. These are the guys I've been getting bids from. I've been trying to get a hold of the one you mentioned, with no call back. Guess I will keep trying.

I'm starting to feel that the eager ones are the 2nd tier and less busy, and the more difficult ones to get a hold of are busy therefore not that desperate.

I will keep plugging away.

Thanks


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

Just had sears out here, what a mistake that was. They wanted 15K for carrier comfort line equipment. The dude wasted 1 1/2 of my time. Who hires them, their prices are no where in the ball park.


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RE: Rheem or Comfortmaker

I live in Essex county and can recommend airgroupllc.com. They may not be cheap but they do great work. I had a furnace, AC and new duct work put in in 1 day last summer when it was 96 degrees.


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