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AC problem - confused lookin for help

User
9 years ago

Hi,

I am not an expert on refrigeration, but will try to describe the situation with my HVAC system as well as I can. It is a Lennox conventional gas furnace/electric AC installed in my 3,000 square foot woodworking shop in April 1999. The system has been serviced regularly, twice per year most years and last checkup everything passed inspection. The condensing unit is an Elite Series HS29, 3.5 ton, single phase 240v.. Most cooling is directed to a 1,000 sq. ft. office/gallery, and a 600 sq. ft. bench room. I did not intend to air condition my machine room, but had some registers added to the inside duct work mainly to help control humidity. However, because we insulated with isonyne foam, the system has cooled the entire space, maybe with the machine room a bit less comfortable than the rest. The condenser is about 50 feet from the evaporator-tubing run on surface of shop walls.

The system has performed without problems until the outdoor breaker tripped, and one leg did not disconnect. When the system was checked it was buzzing rather than starting, and the tech said that that was responsible for damaging the compressor. (I was amazed that there was not an overload device on the compressor notor). The breaker was replaced and the compressor now runs, but does not cool adequately. Not sure if I can transcribe this correctly but the tech�s gauges were reading 0/100, he added 4 lb. R-22 and it went to 40/125 dropping to 30 after running. The temperature outside was probably in the low 90�s. The diagnosis was internal damage to the compressor, and that has been confirmed by a second company.

Both the company that was doing the servicing of the system and the company that installed the system recommend replacing the entire system at a cost in excess of $8,000. The reasons they cite are that the average life expectancy of an HVAC system is 12 years and this one is 15 years old. They also say that R-22 is being phased out and may get very expensive or not available at all. I have read that the phase-out on production is 2020 and quantities should be available for some time after that�but I do not know enough to assess the importance of that.

We have the following quotes so far:

� Replace the compressor only $2500 (90 day warranty). The tech says that systems that have the compressor replaced usually fail in the first year because of contamination of the system when the original compressor failed. Does not recommend. Is this true?

� Replace the condenser, evaporator, and plumbing keeping existing furnace with a Xenon/Goodman 13 SEER unit-using new refrigerant: $6779

� Estimate for replacing entire system (80% efficiency furnace) $9279 and AC as above.

Questions:

1. Does $2500 sound high to replace a compressor? I checked part prices and it looks like a 3.5 ton compressor costs a bit over $600, so that is $1900 labor and Freon.

2. Is that true that contamination from the previous compressor will doom the new one after a year or so?

3. Are the costs or availability of R-22 likely to be astronomical? (I do not recall having to add refrigerant to the system in the past.)

4. The furnace appears to be in excellent condition, functions well, and has checked out on the annual inspections. Is there any reason to replace it?

I know I need to get several estimates. None of the two companies who looked at the system recommended the compressor replacement - both wanted to redo the whole system (which makes me wary).

What do you think?

Many thanks.

Comments (6)

  • jakethewonderdog
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay, I'm not clear on what happened to the compressor originally... but I don't recommend replacing it either. When compressors burn out, they usually make such a mess with the oil that's in the compressor that it's very difficult to clean up. The burnt oil and burned wire insulation residue is acidic. What's more, most techs don't do a great job cleaning up after a burnout.

    I would go with a replacement AC including line set and indoor coil. Don't let them use any of the contaminated stuff.

    I would need a good reason to replace the furnace though.

    BTW: Goodman equipment was at one time terrible. They've gotten better... but they wouldn't be my first choice. Also consider Energy Star rated A/C and see what utility rebates are available to you. Sometimes the higher SEER AC will pay for the marginal difference in rebates.

  • clocert
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    First, R22 will be gone soon, they are $50/lb now, will be $100 in a couple of years. So, if you have the money, and look for long term investment, go ahead with $6779 system. If for any reason, you don't want to spend that much money now, you can find some one who can install a new condenser (not just compressor) for you for about $1600 in southern states, up to $2800 in NY or CA depends on where you are. R22 is expensive, but if they install it right, you may not need any R22 for many years.
    Important thing is find a good contractor, and get 3-5 years warranty. some of the local small shop is willing to do that in order to get your business.

  • klem1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Complete system replacment is the best way to go. And there is GOOD REASON to replace the furnace. It may develop a leak in heat exchanger in the near future. The furnace also has a 15 year old blower motor in it.

  • User
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jakethewonderdog - Does it make a difference that the compressor still runs but doesn't develop adequate pressure in terms of the mess (oil, acidic, etc) that you described?

    Thanks.

  • jakethewonderdog
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    nutso,

    You should expect to get 20 years out of your furnace. You could take a few approaches to this:

    1. Replace just the condensing unit (Clocert is right, you want to replace the entire condensing unit instead of just the compressor - less labor, less for a tech to mess up).

    Let's say this buys you 5 years and then you would replace the entire system.

    2. Replace the entire AC unit - lineset, indoor coil and all but keep the existing furnace knowing you will replace the furnace in 5-7 years.

    3. Replace all of it - hopefully with a higher efficiency unit. Look at rebates from utility company and such when making this decision.

    You want to do a Manual J load calculation because it sounds like you added insulation since the furnace was installed. Use online tools to do that. You may not need 3.5 ton A/C.

    Get a few bids, but Goodman equipment isn't the best.

  • jakethewonderdog
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nutso,

    I don't understand what damage was done to your compressor. It doesn't make sense to me at all.

    When a compressor burns out (meaning the windings on the motor overheat, insulation breaks down, and goes into overcurrent situation) is when it really makes a mess of the system.

    The other problem with any compressor replacement is that the long term success is greatly dependant on the skill, time and thoroughness of the field tech. Unfortunately, there are far too many field techs that take shortcuts and/or don't have the knowledge and skills.

    Replacing the entire condensing unit, as Clocert suggested, is the only way I'd recommend going forward with a limited repair of the A/C unit. It cleans up far more of the system, and reduces the opportunity for the field tech to mess things up. I would expect that to buy you 5 years at which point the entire HVAC system will be due for replacement.

    If this were my system, I wouldn't consider a compressor-only replacement.