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timberwood_gw

Is this a reasonable price for my area

timberwood
9 years ago

Hi,

I live in Montgomery County, MD. I am about to replace my heat pump. I've got a few estimates but the one below is the one that I like the most so far. Is it a reasonable price?

I have read some posts here about prices and it is said that it is difficult to judge prices but anyway I just want to make sure that the price is not an absurd.

- Bryant 285BNA030 + FE4ANF002
- 10 year manufaturer compressor & parts warranty

Electrical work not needed since it will use what already exists.
New pad will be needed for outside unit,
New drain pan needed for inside unit since old is bad.
New quick disconnect box outside.
Existing thermostat will be replaced (Evolution BBUID?)
Final cost after all rebates: 7.2k

Thank you for any insight.

Comments (14)

  • ryanhughes
    9 years ago

    As you've found, it is hard to comment on pricing because there are many variables that impact pricing with regard to the work scope, unless a particular company uses a strict flat rate pricing scheme. Without knowing all these variables, all I can say is that I think it's within reason for an Evolution system. I'll suggest a less expensive alternative below that would still provide great performance (sized/installed correctly, of course).

    How does it compare to the price of the other quotes you've received for the same job? In my opinion this is probably your best measure to determine whether a quoted price is reasonable for the specific work scope. Price is a consideration, as is quality of work and finding a company that will back their install. I am assuming this is why you like this particular proposal the most.

    The Evolution is a great system, but the controller and added logic does come with a price premium. A more affordable solution may be to consider the Preferred 225BNA030 outdoor unit with the matching FV4 fan coil. Include a Bryant TP-PRH thermostat that can be configured to dehumidify on demand. While the Evolution system has its advantages with regard to indoor comfort and diagnostic capabilities, this would also be a very nice system. Of course, neither system has true electronic demand defrost. I maintain my own opinion that this is a very advantageous feature for our local climate. EDD enabled heat pumps generally defrost far less and only as needed.

    Few more questions if you don't mind...

    - Has the dealer done a load calculation to confirm sizing, or is this strictly based on what is currently in place? How has it heated/cooled the space over the years (assuming you occupied the home over that time period)?

    - What will they be doing with the refrigerant lineset -- flushing/reusing or replacing?

    - How do you filter your return air? Are there one/more returns with 1" pleated filters changed monthly, or has a 4-5" media filter cabinet been suggested to you?

    This post was edited by ryanhughes on Thu, May 15, 14 at 17:52

  • SaltiDawg
    9 years ago

    For the OP, I also reside in Montgomery County, MD.

    I replaced my A/C and oil burner three years ago with a Heat Pump and an 80% oil burner.

    A good resource in our area for checking on Heating and A/C installers and repairers is Washington Checkbook. - checkbook.org.

  • mike_home
    9 years ago

    The price is on the high side considering the quote is for a single stage heat pump.

    Is the dealer supplying the 10 year labor warranty?

  • tigerdunes
    9 years ago

    Price may be a little on high side but keep in mind, this is Sgl stage Evolution system and if the Evolution controller is included not too bad. Not sure if that's the best size Evolution air handler. Will need to check that. It should be pointed out that Bryant and Carrier do not offer electronic demand defrost which I would want for your location.

    I would get a competitive quote on Trane XR15 or AmStd Heritage 15 with best size TAM7 var speed air handler, 10 KW heat strip, HW Mdl 8321 thermostat.

    IMO

  • timberwood
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you for the reply.

    I asked for three quotes but I was not aware that each of the companies deal with a different brand, one is Carrier, the other is Bryant and the other is Lenox. Since my current system is a Bryant and since the Bryant estimate had the best price, I am thinking about choosing them. I know that Bryant is a brand of Carrier so they may be comparable, but the estimate I have for the Carrier is more expensive.

    I do have an estimate for a less expensive Bryant alternative, the 225BNA030 + FV4CNF002 for $6.4k (after rebate), same thermostat.

    Also, each estimate carries a different method of installation. The Bryant company will install the handler the same way it is originally, i.e., upside down so no duct job is needed. The Lenox company would install their handler suspended, hung to the ceiling frame and the Carrier company, by far the most expensive estimate (two options, 11.8k or 9.7k) would install their handler laid down so there is some duct work to be done. I was told, by the Carrier company, that installing a handler upside down (as it is now and as the Bryant Co. would keep) is bad for the equipment, will shorten its life).

    All three companies were chosen based on their good reviews in Angie's List.

    One of the companies did a load calculation, to make sure that my current system, a 2.5 ton, is good enough for the area, and it came up with the same result, i.e., yes, 2.5 ton is good enough. Based on the few years I have been in the house, I have no complaints regarding the current system. The reason I am replacing it is because it is leaking gas (R-22) and the other option I'd have (according to another company) would be to change to coil but then I'd be stuck with an R-22 system and I've been told R-22 is being phased out. My current handler is only 9 years old (the heat pump itself is only 6 years old) but maybe the Carrier company is right about installing a system upside down that would decrease its useful life?

    As for the refrigerant, since the new system will use the new gas, it means the gas will be replaced.

    Return air goes through two 18x18 filters, two separate inlets. I change the filters rought every 3-4 months.

    @saltidawg - I am already paying Angie's List. I saw that checkbook.org is also a paid resource. I am not willing to pay for a second paid website that would do the same as Angie's List,but thanks for the suggestion.

    @mike home: warranty for 10-year labor is provided by the dealer only if I pay a yearly contract of around $170.

    What would be a few good dealers for the Trane brand in my area?

    This post was edited by timberwood on Fri, May 16, 14 at 16:01

  • tigerdunes
    9 years ago

    Perhaps Ryan can give you some names on Trane or AmStd dealers for your area.

    Carrier and Bryant make a good product depending on model. However, they do not offer electronic demand defrost which is a great heat pump feature. EDD defrost eliminates and reduces unnecessary defrost calls over the cheap time/temp method.

    After reviewing this thread, I would forget about the Sgl stage Bryant Evolution system quoted. Ask for quote on Preferred 15 with FV 005 var speed air handler. Specify the "L" suffix for aluminum coil. The performance/efficiency numbers are just as good as the Evolution 285 model. Add a 10 KW heat strip or 9 KW presided staged heat strip. You do want Bryant Edge Thermidistat which will give you dehumidify on demand feature for AC cooling.

    Here is the matching AHRI number for this system. Should save you some bucks.

    Active Systems BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS PREFERRED SERIES PURON HP BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 225BNA030****A FV4CN(B,F)005L 875 28800 13.00 15.50 27600 9.00 16700 1 HRCU-A-CB 230 662 Yes

    IMO

  • timberwood
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I have quoted the system above but one of the companies told me that it is not a good idea to use the air handler 005L because it is a 5 ton air handler while the heat pump is a 2.5 ton. So, even if the air handler is of variable speed, because it is designed for a much bigger heat pump, it would probably work in its lower speeds most of the time which would be more than needed and so being less efficient than the 002 version. The 002 model, although designed for a 2 ton system, can handle systems up to 3 tons.

    Anyway, I was also told that the 005 is 22 inches wide and the hole I have in my roof to access the attic is less than 20 inches wide. So I am quoting the 002 that is less than 20 inches wide.

  • tigerdunes
    9 years ago

    While you may have a physical sizing issue, I checked the AHRI Directory and do not see the 002 air handler as a match. If that's the case, then this would be a bad mistake because it is not a certified match.

    Perhaps others can dbl check this and advise an alternative option.

    IMO

  • SaltiDawg
    9 years ago

    "I am already paying Angie's List. I saw that checkbook.org is also a paid resource. I am not willing to pay for a second paid website that would do the same as Angie's List,but thanks for the suggestion."

    They are not the same... checkbook.org does include customer reviews but they also publish ratings similar to the Consumers Reports format... based on obtaining quotes from sources for specific tasks as well as Customer Satisfaction surveys.

    I do see why you would not want to spend the additional money, however.

  • timberwood
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I have quoted that system (225BNA030+FV4CNF002) from three companies, all three are fully Authorized Bryant dealers, all three have the "RED tab number" in the map that the official Bryant website provides when you search for nearby dealers which means they are the recommended companies by Bryant and none of them says anything about this combination, that it would be not a "certified match" in this AHRI directory.

    I am a layman, I don't understand what this certified match would mean, but I have to trust the authorized dealers, I have to trust someone or I will never have the service done and I need it done.

  • mike_home
    9 years ago

    I did an AHRI search and found this listing. I think it is the correct match.

    3677459 Active Systems PREFERRED SERIES PURON HP BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 225BNA030****A FV4CNF002 875 28000 12.50 15.00 27800 8.50 16700 1 HRCU-A-CB 231 701 Yes

  • tigerdunes
    9 years ago

    Mike is correct.

    I was looking at the matchup with the 285 Mdl that was listed by OP initial post.

    3677459 Active Systems PREFERRED SERIES PURON HP BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 225BNA030****A FV4CNF002 875 28000 12.50 15.00 27800 8.50 16700 1 HRCU-A-CB 231 701 Yes

    6950614 Active Systems BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS PREFERRED SERIES PURON HP BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 225BNA030****A FV4CNF002L 875 28000 12.50 15.00 27800 8.50 16700 1 HRCU-A-CB 231 701 Yes

    HSPF rating can only be described as poor to mediocre. I would want the L suffix for the 002L air handler. And again this condenser does not have demand defrost.

    IMO

  • timberwood
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Ok, thank you two, I appreciate the help.

    I know that we get what we pay for and I am not looking into a high-efficient top-of-the-line equipment. I've learned they are expensive and, for some reasons, I'm not willing to go that route. What I do want is dependability, not features. If it is silent as the one I have, if it can cool and heat as the one I have, if it can last at least 10 years without giving me troubles, I am fine.

    I was told the difference between the 285 and the 225 is that the 285 is quieter and sturdier. Since this is the outside unit, I am not worried about it being quieter. If it is just quiet, good. Our rooms are on the other side of the house. I do want a quiet unit inside, just like the one we have now. And we don't need a sturdier unit since the place where it is installed is safe and at no risks.

    I also learned that the Evolution system is something that will keep the unit running almost 24/7 so that you can have a better this, better that, but I just don't like and don't want an A/C, even if only as a blower, running 24/7. It just bothers me, I want it to kick in when needed, do its job, and that is it, until it needs to be done again.

    I also don't mind humid ambient, I am from a humid country and I'd rather be in a humid ambient than the horrible dry air we have in winter time (that can be dealt with using humidifiers, I know and we do have one in the other unit).

    About efficient, it doesn't need to be top-of-the-line. The cost of high-efficient equipment usually cannot be paid by how much it will save you in the long run and I don't even know where I will be "in the long run", that is my particular opinion. So being "average" for today's standards is good enough.

    I have settled with this system and it will cost me around 6k. All 3 quotes are very similar and my task now is to find other reasons to decide on which company to use since price seems not be a factor for the decision anymore.

    Thank you again.

  • bsmith
    9 years ago

    You definitely want the L in there. Carrier has been moving to aluminum for a reason, probably took too long after many problems. Not that the 002 isn't a match, but it's an inefficient pairing compared to the 005. It's actually 4-ton not 5 and shouldn't cost too much extra. I personally would try to make room for it, don't let anyone take the easy way. Especially in the winter, you will be extra glad you did. :)

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