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Advantages/ disadvantages

Posted by Derek51 (My Page) on
Sun, May 27, 12 at 12:12

Negating any major price difference what are some of the benefits and or drawbacks of each system?

Home is in Southeast Michigan just under 2,000 ft ranch and came out with a 65,000 load calc.

Carrier system:
Infinity ICS furnace
Infinity 24ANB7 A/C
Infinity controller
Passive humidifier
5 in. filter cabinet

Trane system:
XC95M furnace
XC20I or XC16I A/C
Comfortlink 2 controller
Passive humidifier
5 in. filter cabinet

Trying to get semi-educated on the differences.
I thought I read somewhere on this forum about the ability to scroll up and or down?
The Trane Comfort "R" is described as running on low at startup. Does the controller interface allow the A/C to run on low for extended periods? Will the XC16I do the same? It is not describes as a communicating unit from my understanding.
Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. Getting ready to pull the trigger.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

Derek

I will assume you are looking at 80 KBTU furnaces and 3 ton AC condensers.

The carrier furnace is their 3 stg 58MVC, a tried and true model that has been in the marketplace for some time.

The Trane furnace is their modulating model, has been in the marketplace about two years. Full modulating within small increments about 40-100% range.

On the Trane condensers, I will assume you are speaking of the XL
series, not XC series which would be Lennox.

I think both of these are fine systems. I would let price, dealer reputation, and your comfort zone with the dealer be your guide. I would want a new
refrigerant lineset. You do want a Trane made or Carrier made evap coil, best matching and no third party brand. Both systems with those controllers will do a nice job in AC mode controlling both temp and humidity.

I would want to know the AHRI matching directory number for each system before making a decision. If dealer specs the best matching evap coil, I would expect the Carrier system to have the better eff numbers for SEER and EER.

IMO


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

Thanks for the reply tigerdunes. Yes that was what was planned an 80k furnace and 3 ton A/C. You were also correct on the XL not XC. My sloppy quick hand writing. LOL Not sure what the AHRI matching directory number means? Thanks again.


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

The AHRI directory provides the performance and efficient numbers for all matching systems.

You can take a look in the directory. For your situation, you would be looking at AC condensers, not HP condensers. See link below.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: AHRI AC Directory


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

The Trane XL20i has two compressors which allows you to operate the AC at 50% or 100% of capacity. The XL16i and Carrier 24ANB7 have a single 2-stage compressor. The operating capacities are about 75% and 100%.

A first stage operating at 50% should do a better job of removing humidity than a first stage at 75%. This may be important to you if you live in an area which has humid summers.

I think the Trane parts warranties are 12 years. The Carrier warranty is 10 years.


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

Thanks mike_home. I read about the Carrier system having a separate humidity function/setting. Didn't know about the Trane being able to do that. Specifically the 16i model since it doesn't state it is a communicating model.


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

I have the Carrier Infinity and it has performed well for me in humidity removal. I don't have a humidifier connected to the furnace, but the Infinity controller can also control humidity levels in the winter.

The Trane system should also be able to control humidity if you have the appropriate thermostat.


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

Just told today that Carrier has discontinued the ICS furnace and the 98 with Greenspeed was their recommendation. It is quite a bit more money. Any thoughts on this?


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

The contractor may be able to locate an ICS furcnace at the distributor. There is also the Infinity 96 2-stage furnace (59TN6). It is variable speed and compatible with the Infinity AC.


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

Derek

If you have nat gas service to your home, I certainly would not recommend the GreenSpeed Heat Pump. That is overkill and I find that dealer recommendation self serving.

Explore your alternatives including the Trane modulating furnace. The Infinity ICS furnace-Mdl 58 MVC is still listed on the. carrier website. Dealer should be able to locate an 80 K model.

IMO


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

Thanks for the replies. The dealer quoted the Carrier 59MN7 98 modulating furnace with Greenspeed. It was quite a bit more than the ICS with the 95 rating.


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

On the Greenspeed, this is a relatively new product. I think it s better suited to homeowners in an all electric situation, who live in an area with cold winters, and who lack nat gas service and have to rely on propane or oil as a heating fuel.

If you are leaning toward Carrier, then get the dealer to exhaust his search for an 80 K 58MVC model.

IMO


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

tigerdunes,
Can you explain further why the Greenspeed is better suited for an all electric or cold weather installation? My local dealer is pushing this model because we have temperate summers and winters (rare to get above 95F or below 35F). Since the heat pump is very efficient and electricity is cheaper than nat.gas (per BTU) why would a gas-only heating solution be preferred?


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

The greenspeed can minimize the need for the auxiliary heat in situations where a normal heatpump can't keep up by itself. So being the greenspeed is more expensive, it is really only helpful in an all electric situation where you can get some significant extreme cold weather where you would be normally be running alot of auxiliary electric to supplement a regular heatpump. If it rarely gets below 30 degrees I think the greenspeed is overkill. Greenspeed is probably overkill if if rarely gets below 20 degrees. If you have all electric and your in Minnesota or Canada then the Greenspeed is for you.

If you have gas, you should use it. I personally like dual fuel setups because you have more options to heat with. That means a gas furnace coupled with a heatpump. If gas were to get expensive some day you could heat with the heatpump. Even with cheap gas the new efficient heatpumps of today are pretty competitive to gas in mild cold weather (above 35 or so). Ofcourse this depends on how expensive your electricity is. If you go with dual-fuel I would recommend the highest-efficiency single stage unit. These offer a pretty good bang-for-your-buck.If your in michigan I wouldn't get an 80% furnace. I would get 95% efficiency. Other reason I like heatpumps is because they shouldn't cost alot more over the regular A/C unit. Basically a heatpump is an A/C unit with some extra parts. Some dealers like to charge a big upgrade cost for this. Others charge only the extra cost of the upgraded unit.


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

Excuse me for chiming in, but I'm laboring under an impression that may be false, so please correct me.

Previously stated: "A first stage operating at 50% should do a better job of removing humidity than a first stage at 75%. This may be important to you if you live in an area which has humid summers."

With regard to 50% or 75%, isn't the blower speed adjusted to maintain the same ratio of CFM/ton and delta-t, while Comfort-R relies on reduced airflow to enhance dehumidification?

V


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

V,

You are correct about the blower speed. It should be adjusted to the correct speed whether it is opreating at 50% or 75% of maximum capacity.

Suppose the heat load calculation for a home came out to be 2.2 tons. If a homeowner wanted a 2-stage AC, then the choice would be 3 tons since 2-stage equipment is only available in whole ton units. If the first stage operated at 75%, it would be supplying 2.25 tons of cooling. Most of the time the room would cool down to the thermostat setting before the air had time to dry out. If the first stage were 50%, then the AC would be supplying 1.5 tons of cooling. In this scenario the AC would run longer before reaching the desired temperature. The longer cooling time would allow lower humidity levels.


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

Thanks Mike. I kind of realized that shortly after I posted.

V


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

Derek

The GreenSpeed HP would be overkill for your area/climate.

In fact since you have nat gas service to your home, I question whether. dF system is even appropriate and cost effective without knowing your nat gas and electric rate.

was your Carrier dealer able to locate a 58MVC080 furnace? Nothing wrong at all with Trane's XC95m model furnace.

IMO


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RE: Advantages/ disadvantages

We have an older model Trane ComfortLink II, installed in mid 2009, with a (limited) 5 year warranty still in effect. We're having some real problems with the touch screen. It doesn't work on four days of the week (Sun-Wed). The only way to change the heat setting on those days is to change the Schedule (the hours the heat is on and off). I called Trane Customer Service and their response was: "We don't answer technical questions here. You'll have to contact your local Trane accredited service person." In other words, pay a local furnace company to troubleshoot the problem. I find their attitude less than helpful when their own web site troubleshooting section on this product doesn't mention any such scenario as a possible problem. I have read over the book that came with the thermostat and according to that there is no possible way for part of the screen to be locked unless a "SCREEN LOCKED" notice is visible on the display. The thermostat has worked fine for 3-1/2 years. Now I have a problem and, seemingly, no recourse for an expensive product under warranty. As a retired Industry businessperson, seems to me they'd send out a Rep under these circumstances.

Anyone else having problems with their 2009 Trane ComfortLink II Thermostat?


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