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nashkat_gw

attic conditioner leaking water, destroying ceiling below

nashkat
9 years ago

Hi to all you experts out there. I hope you can help me!
Last summer our upstairs air condtioner (Trane, at least 12 years old) started cutting out. Worse, there was water in the metal pan, and the pan had corroded badly. Water was leaking out and over the next several weeks ruined the walls and ceiling of the room below.

I called our air-con guy, whom I trusted, and who had installed our large downstairs unit with few problems.

He tried many things. He replaced the corroded pan. He installed a water-level detector to cut off power in the event of a leak (but did not put in an auxiliary drain). He tried to find the cause of the water in the pan. It was evaporation coming from the coils, and falling into the pan, instead of draining properly. He checked the drain line. He insulated all the pipes exiting the unit, in case humidity was evaporating on them and soaking through the attic insulation into the room below. He sprayed the coils with something to make the water slide down them better. I don't know what else he tried, but summer came to an end, and without heat and humidity we couldn't tell any more if what he did worked.

Come this summer. It's still leaking, and there was enough water in the pan to cut off the air con. We've got painters in the house at the moment, and their work in the room below is spoiled.

I called a large reputable firm to come and look. The tech arrived at 10.30 pm, so was tired and working in the dark with a flashlight. He diagnosed a faulty Thermal Expansion Valve. He said that the coils were icing up, and when the ice melts it falls into the pan instead of sliding to the drain.

I asked him, if that's the case, and if the cut-off is working (which it is), why is water still leaking into the room below? It should all be contained in the pan. He said the freon exit pipe gets frozen up, and condensation on it could be responsible. Even though ithe pipe is insulated.

The pan is a year old, but is corroding at the corners of the unit. However, it seems unlikely it corroded enough to start leaking already.

You see my problem. If I trust this guy, install a new TXV for $1000 +, and that doesn't solve the problem, we've got another ruined ceiling and walls that we just paid to have painted.

My husband wants to move the unit out of the attic and into the basement, but that would mean massive changes to the ductwork, and may not even be possible.

So please, any advice would be most greatly appreciated.

Comments (10)

  • jakethewonderdog
    9 years ago

    You know, there are cameras on every smart phone... The tech could make a much stronger case by showing you the frozen coil and/or the condensation.

    Under certain conditions the coil can ice up and if it did, all bets are off on containing the resulting water in the pan. Make sure that all of the things that contribute to coil icing have been addressed including faulty TXV.

    Also consider if there's anything else you can do to protect the ceiling. Since you have a cutoff, a larger plastic sheeting or such might be a reasonable approach.

  • nashkat
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The smart phone idea is a good one. In this case, though the unit had shut off hours before, so any ice was long gone. I was looking over the tech's shoulder the whole time, so I saw pretty much what he saw, just without the knowledge he has.

    I have been wondering about additional water containment. But it's not a realistic option, because the volume of water means no containment will be good for more than a day (if that). It is very humid in Tennessee in the summer.

    Ultimately the only thing that will work is an air conditioner that never leaks ever. We can't live with the daily fear of water coming through our ceiling.

  • Mike
    9 years ago

    Also keep in mind: a simple thing that could cause this is the air handler being out of level.. If that was the case, the water would build up in the internal pan and overflow (finding it's way out of the jacket into the overflow pan).Go up there with a level and be sure that it's correct. If not, get some cork pads/shims and level it as needed. The unit being undercharged or a very dirty air filter or evaporator coil can cause it to ice up as well..

  • Mike
    9 years ago

    ...Also, I would question why the previous tech used a metal pan again, the plastic style are much longer lasting ...

  • clocert
    9 years ago

    Don't like your AC techs, neither one of them good. call some one else. First. ice built up was caused by low on charge, not TVX, he just want your $1000. (spend a few minutes up there simply can not tell if TXV is good or bad.) Second, when a drain pan was put in, he should put a drain pipe in there, so water can be drained outside, we called this secondary drain. with this secondary drain pipe, even your AC leaks, it should not damage your ceiling. Now you should get the secondary drain pipe installed and system properly charged, and then see what will happen, go one step a time.

  • sktn77a
    9 years ago

    "Under certain conditions the coil can ice up and if it did, all bets are off on containing the resulting water in the pan."

    The pan should cover any area that could leak from the coil/air handler. The only way I can think of is if the pan capacity is less than the volume of ice on the coil and it doesn't have a secondary drain (I have vertical and horizontal air handlers that have frozen over and never been a problem).

    Have the guy run a secondary drain from the pan into the primary drain if there isn't one there right now to address the leaking problem. You need to address the coil freezing problem, if that is occurring. Check you filter and refrigerant charge before you replace the TXV (he should have done this - ask him what he found).

  • nashkat
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hey, thanks for all the responses.
    OK, so check the air handler is level, I can do that.
    The tech who came yesterday did check the charge and said there was good pressure (but he also recharged it). He ran his freon detector all over and didn't find a leak.

    I agree about putting in an auxiliary drain. It was crazy of the first guy not to do that. HOWEVER - since the cut-off in the pan is working, the pan should not overflow. Either the pan is leaking or the water is condensing on something that is outside the area of the pan.

    Or, as sktn77a says, the volume of ice is too big to be contained by the pan when it melts. If that's the case, the cut-off would turn off the unit, but the ice would keep melting.
    Possible. That would be a heck of a lot of ice.

    I am afraid to turn on the unit to see if it ices up.

    I could call another tech = another call-out charge :(
    But the company I'm using is the biggest and most reputable in my town.

  • jakethewonderdog
    9 years ago

    I guess i don't understand the point of the secondary drain.
    I've seen when drains clog with mold, but that's only after many years.... so I don't know what the secondary drain would accomplish here.

    A malfunctioning TXV could cause it to ice, as well as low charge and restricted airflow... but usually you see that in a cap tube system since the TXV is regulating the flow into the evaporator based on evaporator temp.

    I understand that it produces a lot of water, but you have a cutoff system in place. A secondary water barrier should prevent water damage as long as the cutoff is working.

    It's not so much that the volume of ice is too big to be contained by the pan... it's that it extends beyond the pan to the suction line and the possibly the coil housing.

    If it were iced up like that, you should be getting almost no airflow through the unit.

    "The tech who came yesterday did check the charge and said there was good pressure (but he also recharged it)." ... those things are mutually exclusive.
    You don't add refrigerant to a unit that is properly charged. What's more, you don't guess at the charge and you can't properly charge a unit where the TXV has failed because sub-cooling is the the only acceptable way to determine the proper charge.

    Look, if it's icing, you really need to see that. You can't guess unless you see why the unit is leaking... you have already done that and you've had to repaint the ceiling a couple of times.

  • ChasCRT
    9 years ago

    Did you ever find a solution for you leaking condensate pan? I recommend you use Pancrete - Self-Leveling, so you just pour right into the pan, and it is a permanent fix, so you never have to look at corrosion again.

    You can view Pancrete through the product page on the link listed below. If you have any questions, e-mail me at Chasity@cleanac.com

    Here is a link that might be useful: Pancrete

  • ChasCRT
    9 years ago

    Pancrete - Self Leveling - Air Handler Refurbishment