Dumb idea, bad advice.

You have R-22 refrigerant now. New AC will be R-410a. You would not want to contaminate a new coil with the old R-22 refrigerant. Keep in mind AC condensers must be matched with the best matching evap coil.

IMO

The logic the contractor is giving you makes no sense. If you have to "re-fill refrigerant", then you have a leak. Your options would be to repair the leak and add R-22, or replace the condenser, coil and lineset which would be filled with R-410.

I think the contractor is concerned he may damage the coil or cause a refrigerant leak in the process of installing the new furnace and is looking for you to cover his costs.

Have you thought about changing the AC condenser? You said it works fine, but at 18 years it is getting to a point where problems begin to develop.

Does the furnace need to be changed now? You could wait until the fall and replace the furnace and AC at the same time. It will cost more up front, but you will have a more efficient and reliable system. In addition the Carrier rebate is up to $1100 for a complete Infinity furnace, AC, and thermostat installation. You may also qualify for additional rebates for a more efficient AC.

mike_home, thanks for the info. I have been lived in this house for 6 years and has never had problem with the AC. Not sure about the history though. We are in New England so summer is not that hot. We usually turn on AC for about 2 weeks per summer. As for furnace, it should be replaced but I can wait and I see your point to wait till fall to do both. But what if AC works fine during the summer and I will face the same situation, right?

Since your A/C is 18 years old. most likely it's R22. Can you replace the evaporator coil with tbe furnace. Absolutely, most evap coil are R22 and 410A compatible. The only problem is that if your condensor go out, you will have to swap the evap coil again. If you are not ready for the whole A/C replacement. Just do the furnace now and do the A/C later.

I was suggesting you get another summer season out of your AC before replacing it. It is very possible the AC will work fine this summer and you will be faced with the same decision again.

If it were my house, I would be concerned about damaging the current coil when the furnace is replaced. I had a bad experience several years ago when I had a HVAC contractor disconnect one of my AC condensers because I needed to fix the area for drainage. At the time the condenser was about 23 years old. The contractor told me it was a bad idea and suggested I replace the AC. I told him wasn't ready for a replacement. The condenser was disconnected and reconnected a few days later. The system developed a leak which I did not fix. I ended up replacing the sytem a year later.

Replace it it is in your best interest to exchange all of your equipment now, do not let that dude nickle and dime you call a more reputable company and changeout everything at once, you will regret it if you don't. I would question any contractor who would tell you to change only an r-22 evap coil given the changeover to new refrigerants. He is not looking at your best interest.

"most evap coil are R22 and 410A compatible."

The odds of finding a compatible coil for an 18 year old system are between small and zero.

Yes brickeye but once you commit to on or the other freons you can't change back to the other.

Too much has been said on this.

Plain and simple, either upgrade with both new outside condenser with new matching evap coil or place old evap coil on new furnace and wait till you have to change both due to breakdown/failure.

IMO

"Yes brickeye but once you commit to on or the other freons you can't change back to the other."

Never said you could.

The bigger problem would be finding a listed coil for any system that old, period.

What freon a new coil might be suitable for will not make much difference.

The system is so old it should simply be replaced with a new matched component set.

The efficiency improvement alone will be significant in helping reduce the 'cost; of the new system.

Thanks all for the valuable advices. I will talk to contractors to find out what make them to think I need to replace coil now. Like I said the AC is 18 years old but I have been living in this house for 6 years and had never done any work on it. The previous owner said they did some maintenance work (between 2003 to 2006) but no details I would know.

If contractor would replace coil this time, would they be filling new freons if I keep the old unit? Will the old unit work with new freons? If yes, replacing it now might be an option. Or what if they discover the old coil has leak but the unit is working fine, so do I need to replace all of them?

-JH

just replace both of them and you will be better off.

Well, just spoke with one of the contractor now. He said -

1. Replacing the old coil today and fill with R22 freon to work with my old condenser

2. N years down the road when the outdoor unit goes bad, just replace the outdoor unit without replacing the coil. But they will do a flush to take out the R22 freon and fill with the new format. At that time, no coil work is required so the $$ will be saved.

Sounds not bad?

-JH

It is amazing that homeowners come on this site for advice but can not accept it.

What a screw up in the making.

You usually get what you deserve taking a shortcut that is not a shortcut.

IMO

You are getting bad advice from your contractor.

If you take that advise you are a moron and so is your contractor. Saving money usually cost you more money in the long run when it comes to hvac.

Ok, ok. At least one contractor (he replaced my water boiler few years back) said no need to do it now. If he does the installation, he would look at the coil (he said there is nothing to look at it) and the worst case is the do it when it goes down. He thinks I am wasting money....

Anyway thanks all for the help. One last thing, I need to select furnace - LENNOX #EL195UH070XE36B 95% and Concord (not sure specifics yet). Which brand is better?

My house is 2700sqf including basement and in northeast. The basement (900 sqf) have one vent to ease the chill and not need to be warm as upstairs.

Thanks again.

-JH

Tiger dunes said that in the first post.
I got some advice for you go to a psychologist and find out where your parents went wrong.

Jhome

Both cheap furnaces.

If Lennox is the only choice, I would want a two stg var speed 95+% efficiency. Of course properly sized. The G61v model.

I see where dealer is quoting a 70 KBTU model. What size are you replacing?

IMO

Thanks tigerdunesmy. My old furnace is 72k BTU with 80% efficiency. It heated the house well. The new Lennix one 95% efficiency with 70k BTU. As for Concord, the contractor originally quoted 90k BTU and I believe it is over-sized for my house.

As for someone spits bad words in this forum, I would suggest him to turn around looking for something else to do. Not everyone here is sophisticated enough understanding everything and that's why I am here.

-JH

No bad words just making a legitimate point, that TIger awnsered your question on his first post and here you are asking the same stuff over and over again. It's just my opinion that some mental health issues might be rearing their heads. I am not a doctor but my unprofessional opinion is that you need to see one. And your right I don't have anything better to do.

This is an old thread but thought but thought I would take my chances. This weekend we saw water leaking from the closet where our furnace and hot water tank are. We called someone out today and they said the coil that is below the furnace is bad. (After much googling I am assuming they mean the evaporation coil). To replace it a company will have to come remover the furnace above it to get to the coil. The furnace is an ‘86 Heil Quaker. They suggested since it will already be removed that we go ahead and get it replaced.

Since this is a huge repair we went and ahead and made a service appointment with our Home Warranty company. I know they aren’t the best and half the time they refuse to fix things, I have had my own battles with them and our garage door. Right now I am trying to just gather some information, first how does the coil and furnace interact (I need the dumb down version), second should is it cost effective to replace the furnace if the home warranty company covers the coil repair, third is there a way to get the warranty company to cover my furnace as well (are the coil and furnace connected and therefore both will have to be replaced for them to work), and fourth should I fight the company about getting the box where the coil is 100% replaced or should I just settle for a repair?

taking age into consideration, I would replace everything-furnace, evap coil,and outside condenser. You want a matching system-high eff furnace with R410 coil and AC condenser. I do not like 3rd party home warranty companies. I would ask for a cash settlement and use this against a quality system. Just so you know, you can rarely repair an Evap coil. Just a waste of money. Bite the bullet and do this right. What is your location?

IMO

The evap coil depending on setup sits in front of the furnace. It works with the outside AC condenser. Refrigerant is what cools your home. If you have a leak, eventually your AC will not cool your home.

I will add to above post that a pleated filter media cabinet is recommended for indoor air quality and to both protect your furnace blower motor and Evap coil. If you don't have one and decide on furnace replacement, now is the time to add one.

IMO

@tigerdunes

I was wondering if I could just do a cash settlement with them, but I am sure I still have to have the service call made and have their company come out to look at it. Our condenser was just replaced in 2013 by the previous owners, is that not still a good working Condenser? I am in Tulsa Oklahoma.

The coil our family friend said is leaking sits below the furnace with an attached humidity controller (which we have never been used or plugged in). He said it’s not refrigerant leaking but rather the water that should be being pushed into the drain pipe.

We dont have one one of those and I will look into it. I know we want to do this right but it’s also a matter of budget and what we can afford now especially if the Home Warranty will say we can patch it so that’s what we will fix.

Home warranty repair deals often end up with you holding the bag. I would recommend you not using a home warranty company.

Replacing an entire HVAC system is always the better approach. However, this often times comes as a shock, because your system broke down out of the blue and you were anticipating getting a simple fix from the home warranty company for maybe $75 total out of pocket.

Attempting to repair a coil in most cases (upwards of 97% of the time) is not a good idea. Always better to replace the coil with new.

Throwing big replacement dollars into a home you 'may not' stay living at is another side of the spectrum that you have to consider as the homeowner. (You'll never recoup this expense when you sell. It will help you sell it though in most cases if the install was done properly and the inspection doesn't provide any red flags.)

Many times due to the smart architectural achievements in home designs over the past 30 years or so, the amount of room given to hold the HVAC equipment is a repairman's nightmare. In order to replace one defective thing with a system other parts have to be removed to get to it.

If the coil is R22, yeah that's going to cost you. While it's always a good idea to do both the Evap coil and the AC condenser at once a highly skilled HVAC contractor can do this without much fanfare. ( I am one such HVAC contractor.)

No matter what you do... whether you replace all or only a portion of it... new things can break again. That's the life of a repair man. A replace man... a man that replaces rarely has the skills to fix anything and that is a sinking ship if you ask me.

The other side of this equation is if you want a higher end system that is capable of dehumidification and other features, to accomplish that the whole system must be replaced. But the gotchya moment is if something arrives in your life that causes you to sell this home you did all these improvements to for someone else.

If part of the system needs replacing and you must remove another part of the system to get to it... it is always better to replace with new, the parts of the system that have to be removed to get to the part of the system that has to be replaced.

You just had one gotchya moment, the last thing you need is two, doing a tag team on your personal finances.

Whether you do the complete system or not, comes down to a variety of factors. There are always far more people with horizons not as stable for staying put in one place. I serve all functions, whether you plan to live in the home for 30 years or if you plan to move in 5 or less.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

(I can not, nor will I attempt to compete with a home warranty. So if your thought is to pit me against a home warranty company it won't work. ---- I offer far greater service than a home warranty company could ever come close to offering. That is the rub. You will always need service, so if you're investing in new equipment, do your homework to ensure you can get the service you desire when you need it.)

Below is a long in depth video pertaining to why it's foobar trying to repair an evaporator coil.

What is brand and Mdl of your 2013 AC condenser? How old is Evap coil? Condenser is R410 or R22 refrigerant?

IMO

Deborah, go out and look at your condenser and locate the data plate information on it. It will tell you what kind of refrigerant is in it.

If you have trouble take a picture of the data plate and post it to the board.

This weekend we saw water leaking from the closet where our furnace and hot water tank are. We called someone out today and they said the coil that is below the furnace is bad.

This is a 7 year old thread. I suggest you start your own posting if you want to continue the discussion.

Evaporator coils contain refrigerant and not water. So this tech who came to your house is either clueless or he is goal is to sell you new equipment. It is possible for the coil to ice up due to a refrigerant leak. When the ice melts then you could have a puddle a water by the furnace. It could also be clogged condensate line which may only require a simple fix. This is what your friend is suggesting.

Let the home warranty take a look at the issue. Hopefully it is a condensate drainage issue and they send someone competent enough to fix it. In the mean time gather the info Tigerdunes has requested. You will need it in case you need to replace any equipment.

Its definitely a gotcha moment and a frustrating one. We are planning on staying here an extended amount of time. I am not sure when the evaporator coil was replaced as I can not find a sticker on the system. We just moved in last year and so I am thinking I need to contact the previous homeowner to get that answer. I have a picture I will upload of the outside condenser.

We originally thought it was the drain pipe but we cleaned that out and when the repair guy came over he pulled the pipe off while the AC was running and no water was draining from the system at all. All liquid was sitting underneath it and causing a slow river to start forming going away from it and out our garage.

Would your suggestion be to still have the warranty come out even if I am not planing on using them? Should I call out my own company? I really don't want to be pouring money into service fees.

I really appreciate all your answers.

too bad...condenser looks like AmStd low end XB 13 Seer Mdl 3 ton...

if it is , you will need an R22 compatible Evap coil.

Refrigerant level should be checked. Regardless, I would replace the old inefficient furnace.

there should be a data plate on existing Evap coil.

IMO.

The manufacture date on this condenser is March 2013. I would think it was shipped with R-410A refrigerant. Unless it was sold as a dry unit.

Is the AC running and keeping the house cool? If it is then I don't see why you need to be replacing the coil. If no water is coming out of the drain pipe then it likely has a clog further back where you can't see it. The water is likely overflowing the condensate pan.

Is there a service charge for calling the home warranty company? If you don't want to deal with them then don't bother calling them. I don't get a good feeling from the first company you called. I suggest you find another competent HVAC company to troubleshoot what is happening.

Mike

the 2 prefix on the Mdl number usually indicates R22. Probably one of the last R22 condensers.

TD

I will look to see if I can find the plate you are referring to! i have called another company out here to come today and hopefully they can do the checks and figure out what refrigerant I have. What you say about the clog makes sense because my house is staying cool and this leak/water issue has been happening for a few days now. i will see what this new company says and maybe I’ll be able to just cancel my warranty appointment tomorrow And not have to worry about that charge. Will let you know what they say! Thanks for all the advice, and if the bug repair has to be done, then that furnace will definitely need be replaced.

Yeah that's R22 and while that is a builder grade Trane unit that is probably out of warranty by now... typically those were sold with 5 year parts warranty. Because R22 Freon was already obsolete by 2013.

With that said, this condenser 'could' last another 10 years, provided the coil repair work is done appropriately.

The replacement coil needs to be a coil suitable for R22 / any coil can be retro fitted to work, but skill is required in choosing the coil. Typically home warranty companies are known for tom foolery.

If the condenser was a dry condenser (nitrogen gas) it would say it was on the data plate in some manner.

That's the down side in anything Trane or American Standard because they were one of the last manufacture's to switch over to R410a refrigerant.

The R22 conundrum only effects you if there is a leak... otherwise it doesn't matter much. While the cost for it will only go up now that production has ceased, it's serviceable life is still around another 10 years or so.

Without United Technologies Corporation heavy investment in R410a AC equipment development we would be no where near where we are today. R410a equipment has been available now for almost 20 years if you can imagine that.