mikes

putting brand of HVAC aside for the moment, what area of country do you live?

what is your nat gas rate-cost/therm?

what is electric rate-cost/kwh?

hybrid systems commonly called dual fuel are normally controlled by a stat with an outdoor sensor. you set the stat to the outside temp that you want the heat pump to operate and the temp below that point your furnace will operate. That's a rather simplified explanation. There are other considerations as well.

You should know your temperature balance point. TBP is outside temp where heat gain from your HP is equal to the your home's heat loss.TBP varies mainly due to your home's construction/insulation qualities. I have a duel system system and estimate my TBP is 27 degree. Just to give my setup some leeway, I have my switchover point set at 30 degrees. This seems to work best for me, my system, and home's inside comfort.

IMO

IMO,

I live in the Philadelphia area. My nat gas rate and electric rate are high and extermely high. Actually, in my neck of the woods, there is a brilliant plan for one company to sell both products. Seems like kind of a racket to me, but who am I to buck the system. My longer term plan is to add some solar panels to the house to help defer the electric cost or even sell some electric back. So even if it is not currently as cost efficient to use the heat pump (high efficiency model) it should be in the future. I am also assuming that if the heat pump is high efficiency, then when the same unit is used as an AC in the summer, it will be as well.

I have not heard anyone discuss the TBP yet, but it makes sense to me. How do you determine the TBP? Or is it an educated guess? Do you need to know the gas and electric rates to determine the TBP?

My electric rate is .066 X kWh

My nat gas rate is .95411 X Ccf

As far as the Thermostat to control the units, I just need to find one that has an outdoor sensor input and I should be able to program it the way you describe. Is that correct? Or is there a certain type, name or brand I should look for?

Mikes

The Goodman products are much better since they were 'Amanaized', Copeland scroll compressor and a good warranty. You look at hvac stuff on eBay and it's relatively inexpensive, even the high end brands.
Cape rates are .22/kwh, $1.70/Therm for NG. We don't use much electric.

Wow if you think .066/kWh and .95411/ccf are high I'd hate to see what you think $0.129/kWH and $1.18/ccf are. That's what we pay.

bushleague,

Should I be looking for Amana products then, or are they still carrying both product names. If they do carry both product names, are they the same product, or is the Amana line better? Or do you know the answer to that question? Are you in the HVAC business or do you own a Goodman or Amana product?

I am almost thinking of installing the system myself after both of the quotes I got. One was for Lennox and one for Trane. I am supposed to get another quote for a Goodman from the Lennox contractor. He says that Goodman is making a better product then they used to, but the difference may be in the support. He said, that if the Lennox unit fails, I'll get the part the next day. If the Goodman fails, it may take 2 or 3 days. Do you feel that is a correct statement?

Thank you for the info by the way, I know I ask allot of questions.

mikes

Be careful of high efficiency furnace if you system is located in a basement. The high efficiency furnaces need a moisture drain pipe that descends a quarter-inch per foot length, or else the pipe moisture (secondary exchanger runoff) will back up into the furnace and it will shut off.

Basement installs should go with a Trane XV80 or Bryant 80% VS furnace (without that secondary exchanger and without all that extra maintenance).

"Be careful of high efficiency furnace if you system is located in a basement. The high efficiency furnaces need a moisture drain pipe that descends a quarter-inch per foot length, or else the pipe moisture (secondary exchanger runoff) will back up into the furnace and it will shut off.

Basement installs should go with a Trane XV80 or Bryant 80% VS furnace (without that secondary exchanger and without all that extra maintenance)."

Yes, condensing furnaces do require drain lines, just like A/C systems.... Hasn't been a problem for the other countless 90+ furnaces installed, so I don't see any reason in detering higher efficiency options. Why is the basement a problem? If anything you want a basement/ground level install rather than an attic install for the 90+ furnaces.

I'm learning more all the time. Can you tell me more about the TXV metering device for the E-Coil? My current 80% unit already has a condensate drain pump used when I run the AC in the summer and I have not had a problem with it. This self contained pump sits on the floor next to the furnace and pumps the condensate into my sump pump then the sump pump pumps it out of the house. Wouldn't I just run the high efficiency furnace moisture drain pipe out to the same pump? I have to imagine that moisture drain pipe is up high on the High Efficiency unit and my condensate pump is on the floor, gravity will do the job unless the pump fails and the water backs up into the furnace. Is that the same moisture drain pipe that I have on my current 80% efficiency furnace that drains the condensate when I run the AC in the summer?

One of the quotes I got from a HVAC hybrid install (95% efficient furnace w/ 2 stage variable speed furnace and 15 or 16 SEER Heat Pump) was to put a catch pan under the furnace with the furnace up on blocks and put a pump in the drain pan that pumps the condensate water into my sump pump. This gives you more time to deal with a pump going bad vs the self contained pump I have currently.

I have another question about buying the new 95% efficient furnace. My current furnace is 80% effecient and is 100,000 BTUs. I have replacement choices of 90,000 BTU or 115,000 BTU replacement. My house is 2000 sq. ft, not including basement. Is there much efficiency difference between the 2 choices? I know the bigger unit will probably supply more heat, but is that at more cost in energy? Or is the difference nominal. My first thought is to go with the bigger unit for only $100-$200 more in cost.

Mikes

You really want to first pick a contractor, then look at their equipment recommendations. Some homeowners make the mistake of first purchasing the equipment online (which by the way voids the warranty), then trying to find a contractor to install it.

You wouldn't bring your own eggs to a restauraunt, in order to avoid the 2000% mark-up, why do that to your HVAC contractor (the typical mark-up is usually no more than double). Your local HVAC contractor can warranty the equipment, and work with the local distributor if there's any problems. Also, by making a profit on your install, they will likely happily address any concerns you may have down the road.

That being said Goodman equipment is O.K., but is certainly not in the same category as Trane or Carrier/Bryant. Goodman is trying to reinvent itself with exceptional warranties. But they have yet to produce a product that isn't a POS after 8 years. The "new Goodman" defninetly looks better, but I've installed dozens and am not impressed with the reliability of a few of the components. JMHO.