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Replace 3 furnaces and AC

Posted by BostonFrench (My Page) on
Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 17:51

Hello All,

I am going to replace my 3 furnaces (one per floor) and my central chiller system for the A/C, I met a lot of contractors and selected 3 final proposals.

I was wondering if you could give me some feedbacks form the following proposal:

Two (2) TUH2B060A Trane XV95 variable speed 2 stage gas furnaces.
• Two (2) 4TXCC037BC3 Trane evaporator coils.
• Two (2) 4TTB4018E1, XB14 Trane R-410A split system cooling condensers with pads.
• One (1) TUH2B060A Trane XV95 variable speed 2 stage gas furnace.
• One (1) 4TTB4030E1, XB14 Trane R-410A split system cooling condenser with pad.
• Three (3) a/c line sets from coils to condensers complete with pipe, fittings and insulation.
• All necessary insulated duct work to be connected to existing ducts with certain retro fit and
adding where needed to satisfy operation, reuse all existing registers and add where needed.
• Secondary drain pans, float switches, pvc pipe and fittings for all units to be piped to indirect
waste line where necessary.
• PVC venting utilizing B vent penetration on roof for 2nd and 3rd floor units complete with pvc pipe, fittings and termination fittings.
. Reconnect existing gas line to new furnace complete with pipe, fittings and new gas shut offs.
. Reconnect existing wiring to new furnaces both line and low voltage, reconnect existing condenser line voltage to 1st floor condenser and add 2 new lines.
. Replace Air Bear air filters on all units. 2nd and 3rd floor units complete with disconnect switches and whips with service receptacle .
. Remove 3 new programmable thermostats.
. Remove and dispose of old equipment and all related trash.
. All necessary permits by the Town , gas and mechanical with inspections.

Thank you so much for your help,


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

Several thoughts and questions.

How large is your home?
How large is each zone?
Where would the furnaces be located for each zone?
Any opportunity for zoning controls off one system for the top two floors?

If going with two stage var speed furnaces, you want a true two stage thermostat or else you will be on high stage all the time whether needed or not. This is a big deal both for comfort and operating cost.

I prefer Perfect Fit air filter cabinets.

I prefer XR series of AC condensers over the XB series.

Your home has adequate returns for each zone? Any hot/cold spots in your home?

Your location is Boston?

IMO


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

Thanks for your feedbacks. Please find below your answers:

1st Floor: 1,500 sqft, furnace located in the basement
2nd Floor: 1,200 sqft, furnace located in a crawling space (left) in the 3rd floor.
3rd Floor: 1,200 sqft, furnace located in a crawling space (right) in the 3rd floor.

Yes I have some hot/cold spots in my home and they are going to check those spots and try to find a solution for each floor.

Why do you prefer XR versus XB (expect XR series are quieter than XB)?

I live in Woburn.

Any other recommendations?

Thanks for your help and advice.


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

First hope you are surviving the terrible weather.

A bit confused. Please elaborate on location of furnace for second and third floor.

What size and efficiency are all existing furnaces that you intend to replace.

I assume the 1 1/2 ton condensers are for second and third floor zones. I question those sizes and would want to see some documentation to support that.

The XR series condenser is quieter but also a nicer unit.

Assuming one is sized correctly, hot/cold spots usually are caused by poor ductwork design, sizing, and insulation properties.

Post back.
IMO


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

Yes we are surviving the snowstorm and we had no power outrage.

In fact, on the third floor, we have 2 crawling spaces where the current furnaces are installed. One is on the left side of the house and the other one on the right side.

The current BTUs are: 1st floor (80), 2d and 3rd floor (60). The contractor did a load calculation and found these numbers.

The 1 1/2 Ton condensers are for the 2d and 3rd floor.

Thanks,

Herve


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

Boston

Other than the suggestions I have already made, I strongly recommend you request another load calc performed by a third party professional. I have low confidence in the sizing of both furnaces and condensers, furnaces too large for 2nd and 3rd floor, condenser too large for main floor and possibly too small for 2nd and 3rd floor. Pay for the load calc if necessary. It will pay for itself in both comfort and operating cost.

IMO


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

Hello,

I have got a new proposal. Please could you let me know your comments?

The Carrier thermostats are model #TP-PRH01

Furnish and install one Carrier, "Infinity" Model #59TN6A060V17-14, 96% AFUE, 2-stage, variable speed,
gas-fired, warm air furnace and one Carrier, "Infinity" Model #25HNB530, 2.5-ton, 15 SEER, 410a, heat pump unit with one Carrier, Model #CNPVP3617, air conditioning coil to provide heating and cooling for the first floor living areas. Furnace and air conditioning coil to be located in the basement and ducted to existing supply and return ductwork. Heat pump to be located outdoors on pad and piped to air conditioning coil in the basement.

Furnish and install one Carrier, "Infinity" Model #59TN6A060V17-14, 96% AFUE, 2-stage, variable speed, gas-fired, warm air furnace and one Carrier, "Infinity" Model #25HNB530, 2.5-ton, 15 SEER, 410a, heat pump unit with one Carrier, Model #CNPHP3617, air conditioning coil to provide heating and cooling for the second floor sleeping areas. Furnace and air conditioning coil to be located in the crawl space and ducted to existing supply and return ductwork. Heat pump to be located outdoors on pad and piped to air conditioning coil in the crawl space.

Furnish and install one Carrier, "Infinity" Model #59TN6A060V17-14, 96% AFUE, 2-stage, variable speed, gas-fired, warm air furnace and one Carrier, "Infinity" Model #25HNB524, 2-ton, 15 SEER, 41Oa, heat pump unit with one Carrier, Model #CNPHP3617, air conditioning coil to provide heating and cooling for the third floor areas. Furnace and air conditioning coil to be located in the crawl space and ducted to existing
supply and return ductwork. Heat pump to be located outdoors on pad and piped to air conditioning coil in the crawl space.


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

There are a number of issues with the Carrier proposal.

1. You should get Infinity Controllers if you are buying Infinity furnaces and heat pumps.

2. If you are getting 96% AFUE furnaces, then why are you considering heat pumps? Post your electric and gas rates. I highly doubt a heat pump makes economic sense in Boston.

3. I feel the furnaces are over sized, but Carrier does not make a furnace smaller than 60K BTU. Did you get a load calculation?

4. The sizes of the heat pump seem inconsistent. I would think 2 ton units would be plenty for the first and second floors, but 2 tons may be marginal for the third floor.

5. What is being proposed about line sets and media filters?


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

Thanks for the reply.

I paid last month:
- Electricity: total $271.97 for 1,761 KWH
- Gas: total $467.27 for 341 Therms

I did not get a load calculation.

Could you be more precise about line sets? and media filters (I have already a filter system form aprillaire)

Thanks for your feedbacks,


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

The media filter is Aprilaire Model #2410


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

The Apriaire filter is fine if it can be reused.

You are paying about $0.15 per KWH for electricity and $1.37 per therm of gas. Your gas rate seems high. Is there a service charge included in the total?

The line sets should be changed. If they are too difficult to change then they need to be properly flushed provided they are the correct size. The contractor needs to verify this.


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

Thanks for your feedbacks.

The line sets will be changed and they will install new ones.

For the gas, the price is divided as following:

GAS DELIVERY CHARGE $251.76

GAS SUPPLY CHARGE @ .63200 /therm $215.51

Do you think that the Heat Pump option is a good one?

Thanks


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

Get a quote for furnaces and AC only units. In my opinion your situation will take a very long time if ever to recover the additional cost of 3 heat pumps.


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

I agree with all of Mike's comments. I would like to see a third party load calc though. I have little confidence in the Trane numbers.

Especially about the need for Infinity controller for Infinity furnaces and dropping the idea of dual fuel.

IMO


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RE: Replace 3 furnaces and AC

To install 3 AC only, the price will be 1,600 less (SEER 16) but the company has a Tax Exempt status if she installs heat pumps. What do you think about the difference and do you know the tax exempt status?

Thank you so much for your feedbacks!


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