How Good is Goodman?
Earlier this month, I received four estimates on a hybrid system. When I called back to ask for equipment that qualifies for the $1,500 rebate in the new tax stimulus law--a 15 SEER, 12.5 EER, 8.5 HSPF heat pump backed by a 95% AFUE furnace--two of the four replaced their original estimates with ones involving Goodman equipment.
One of the two had originally proposed Lennox; the other, Bryant. A third contractor's original estimate was for Goodman equipment.
I've heard and read so many comments both good and bad about Goodman. But the high-efficiency equipment being proposed carries a lifetime limited warranty from Goodman on the HP compressor and the furnace heat exchanger, a total furnace replacement if the heat exchanger fails in the first ten years and a ten-year limited warranty on all the other parts.
The only contractor sticking with his original equipment is proposing Carrier, but he's the highest of the bunch. Does anyone know if Carrier's going to have its usual spring rebate this year? It usually runs about $1,000, I understand.
Whaddaya think and whaddaya know?
Comments (34)
ryanhughes
15 years ago$1500 is the cap. So, if the furnace gets you $1500 tax credit, you won't get any additional from having a heat pump meeting those standards--though it never hurts to get more efficiency.
("Per-Appliance Caps Removed
Homeowners may use the entire $1,500 tax credit limit on a single qualifying improvement. The previous per-appliance caps that limited the homeowner to just $150 for a high efficiency furnace or $300 for a high efficiency central air conditioner or heat pump have been removed.")I've seen good and bad out of Goodman. I would avoid. I've seen several Goodman units, both old and new, in person, and they just don't seem to be built as well as brands like Trane, Carrier, Rheem, Lennox. The warranty is good, but check the details; there may be something in there. I'd be comfortable with 10 years parts and labor on any other brand.
donniehvac
15 years agoGoodman is horrible although they have made some improvements since aligning with Amana. I don't care what kind of "warranty" they offer. Get the details by the way. Of course Carrier is the highest price. Lennox, Carrier, Trane not neccesarily in that order, and nothing else. You'll get what you pay for.
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15 years agoA guy with the handle "garyg" on this forum has a modern Goodman, and loves it from what I read. His posts also suggest a good technical understanding of HVAC...he may be a dealer/installer...I don't know that part.
baldloonie
15 years agoEveryone has their own opinion of Goodman. Some hate it, some like it. It tends to be one of the lowest priced units out there so there's gotta be reasons why. But if installed and sized right, probably will do just as well as a more expensive product. Great warranty anyway. Only thing we see in our area and hear the complaint many other areas as well: they tend to be available to anyone, qualified or not, so if we're going to see a horrid install, often it is a Goodman, which has tarnished their reputation.
garyg
15 years ago"A guy with the handle "garyg" on this forum has a modern Goodman, and loves it from what I read. His posts also suggest a good technical understanding of HVAC...he may be a dealer/installer...I don't know that part."
- I am just a homeowner but educated myself in HVAC when, in June of '07, I chose to replace a fully-functioning 21 year-old 7 SEER heat pump to combat a 72% rise in Maryland electric rates.
I cannot comment on Goodman's gas furnaces, only their heat pumps.
I chose a Goodman GSH14036 R22 heat pump with a multi-speed fan in the air handler. This system gets solid performance numbers: 14 SEER, 12 EER, 9 HSPF, full cooling btu's (36,000) and almost full heating btu's (34,600). It has a Copeland scroll compressor which is highly regarded in the industry.
I bought the system myself from a contractor that sells to the public out of his warehouse (not an internet buy). Goodman does not warrant internet purchases.
My wife works for a Property Management company so I used one of their pros for the installation. They provided a 1 year labor warranty.
Paid $1200 for the install and $2500 for the heat pump system. The heat pump purchase price also included a 15 kw aux heat strip kit, TXV for the indoor coil, by-pass humidifier, and plastic condenser mounting pad. Total cost was $3700.
So far the system works very well and my summer power consumption has been reduced by about 40%.
Some things that I don't like about the new heat pump:
- Sheet metal in air handler is very flimsy.
- 1" filter difficult to replace due to tight clearances and poor design of the rack that houses the filter.
- Sheet metal screws on condenser starting to rust.The above problems are no big deal to me.
Hopefully I'll get many years of good service. We'll see. Only time will tell.
Take care.
jerry_nj
15 years agoHi garyg... you're the "one".
Looks like you got a great price, congratulations. That's the way I see it anyway.
As for the parts, yes too, I understand you got the top-line compressor with the Copeland. I didn't say in my brief post calling for help from you, but I understand one should first demand what every they buy that is has the good stuff in the compressor and blower areas, there are only a few manufacturers. I think GE (much as I dislike them) makes most of the blowers (in China?? don't know, don't know either where Copeland makes their compressors).
brickeyee
15 years agoInstallation is at least as important as brand name, possibly more so.
The 'non-exclusive' suppliers (like Goodman) do not have franchise owners, but sell to just about anyone.
A first class install of a Goodman system will give good service.
A crappy install by a big name franchise seller may have problems forever.Little things like how long the system stays under vacuum before releasing the refrigerant from the condenser matter.
zl700
15 years agoSo true Brickeye
With exception to the Goodman product 8+ years ago, their fault is not in the product but the customer base that they sell to.
Perfect example, GaryG purchased his own unit which could of gotten ugly, but he managed to arrange a quality install, which makes all the difference.
Trane could have just as bad of a name if they sold to anyone also.
They make no bones about it, they and Nordyne seek market share anyway they can.
garymunson-2008
15 years agoA/C units have gotten kinda like computers. Most mfgs all use the same components when they assemble their units...Copeland scroll compressors, GE motors, Chinese reversing valves. The only difference I see is in cabinet construction and the controller board. Most solid state stuff rarely fails now but when it does, if it's out of warranty, the cheaper/high sales volume units are cheaper and faster to get a replace part for.. So few units fail in warranty compared to the past that post-warranty time is more important.
tlewis_hvac
15 years agoI guess I'll put my two cents in as well because I am very adamant about not selling Goodman anymore. They used to use GE and Fasco motors, but now they are using a brand called "Zong Shuan Tokyo Motor Co". I have had nothing but trouble out of these condenser motors and blower motors. Plus I have had quite a few blower wheels just fall apart and then ruin the blower motor with it.
Also, I can't count how many contactors I have replaced on Goodman because the coil shorts out in them and blows a fuse or transformer.
Yes, all of this is under warranty, but I've had people that had the unit a month, and the motors start going out on them.
As some said before me, stick to Lennox, Trane, or Rheem.iggie
15 years agoWe have offerd Goodman units as one of the brands we handle for years and I have been an advocate for using the brand. However, when I saw the Zong Shuan motor, I have to agree stay away from the units these motors are strictly junk. We are not handling the brand anymore. They always cut corners on sheet metal and things like paint, but like tlewis says in previous post, they used GE and Fasco motors and the untis would work fine if a good install was done. But this stuff being used now is strictly junk.
bobt
15 years agowell, the house i bought 4 years ago had an old carrier, and the carrier guy i had servicing it put a goodman gmv950453bxa in for me for much less than a carrier he qouted me on after i let him know the carrier was not an option. i wanted a professional installation, and asked him about a goodman. he looked into them and put in this 95%, var speed 2 stage for a profit on his part and a fit for my pocketbook. i do wonder about the zong suan motor through two heating seasons, i have nothing but good things to say about the goodman. btw, in my former home, he had put in a payne for me (again--carrier too pricey) and it works fine, but it was much more than the goodman for the 95 % 2sp var.
garry2284
14 years agoMy Goodman Heat Pump reversing valve broke after less than 6 months after installation! An electrical part broke after less than 5 months! I am still waiting and trying to resolve this matter!!!!!! All of the Freon escaped. Between Goodman and the Distributor, I'm still waiting on a fix as of today.
garyg
14 years ago"My Goodman Heat Pump reversing valve broke after less than 6 months after installation! An electrical part broke after less than 5 months! I am still waiting and trying to resolve this matter!!!!!! All of the Freon escaped. Between Goodman and the Distributor, I'm still waiting on a fix as of today."
- Your installer should have provided you with a 1 year labor warranty to go with the 10 year parts warranty from Goodman.
paulbm
14 years agoI don't know that much about Goodman, I do know i have been selling them for two years now and i have had good luck with both furnaces and air con. In the last 40 years i have sold different equipment. I was a lennox dealer for years, and payne dealer. I sold Rheems for years also, Back when they had the rgea,
ka, EB, and then the drum, all junk in my opinion. I quit Rheem when they sold out to the japanese, so i don't know what Rheem has now i sure there are just fine. I think it has already been said the main thing is that the equipment is installed right. Some dealers sell there equipment, and some dealers sell themselves. Later paulbmgarry2284
14 years ago-garyg, thank you for your comment.
The installer was paid to install the brand new Goodman unit. The copper tubing on the reversing valve, (that was soldered at the factory,) broke by the 6th month of operation, all of thr Freon escaped the system.
The installer was not paid to repair Goodman's heat pump AND replace all of the Freon that escaped the system AND replace the broken reversing valve 6 months after he installed the system. If he had to do this on all of Goodman's units, he'd go broke.
I wish that the distributor and / or Goodman would have stood behind their product with more conviction. I am stuck in the middle as of now and I am still waiting for Goodman and /or their distributor to do the right thing...still waiting....and waiting ...and waiting...
I would never purchase a unit over the internet ever again.
brickeyee
14 years ago"I would never purchase a unit over the internet ever again."
When you squeeze all the profit out for the installer no one will be on your side for a warranty claim.
The installer is not going to spend time (=money) helping you.
You are at the mercy of folks who depend on volume and do not care about a 'few failures' (they have their money).
garyg
14 years ago"I would never purchase a unit over the internet ever again."
There's your problem.
Purchased from an HVAC contractor, the contractor provides a 1 year labor warranty and Goodman provides the 10 year parts warranty. Since the unit is purchased from the contractor, he's responsible for the resolution of any parts warranty problems with the manufacturer.
Purchased off the net, Goodman does not provide a warranty. It's stated on their website, www.GoodmanMfg.com. If you got a parts warranty from an internet purchase, consider yourself lucky. The contractor is only responsible for his installation. You have to resolve any parts warranty problems on your own because you bought the system yourself off the net.
A learning experience for you with HVAC.
My 14 SEER Goodman heat pump installed in '07 runs like a champ.
Take care.
garry2284
14 years agoYes, NOW I know....believe me..I NOW KNOW. I wish the A/C industry (those of you who install a/c units) would get this message out to "John Q. Public". The only thing, is how do you get to the consumer before he makes this mistake? You guys that install units for a living need to get together and make a web-site and warn consumers.
To my fellow, "John (Jane) Q. Public", I say to you: It's NOT worth the "savings".
Folks, the internet is with us, it's going to be around for a long, long, time. If you think consumers are not checking out internet sites before they buy,...well,,,they are!
I wish I had the installer's side of the story too. I also wish, that the internet A/C company would have explained what I was giving up by purchasing from them.(like that's going to happen)
You guys might want to get the word out against doing as I've done. (No offense taken by any of your comments) I'm chalking this one up as a learning experience.
I am posting here in hopes to educate others before they make the same mistake I made. GO TO THE GOODMAN WEB-SITE and READ THE "INTERNET SALES POLICY" it states, that sales of HVAC equipment to consumers is "strictly prohibited". If that's so, then how in the world was I able to purchase a unit without any EPA certification, HVAC training, etc. etc. etc. looks like the all-mighty dollar rules evidently...check out the internet A/C web-sites, do they mention that they can't sell to the public?..NO, they don't! In fact, they state: "WE SELL TO THE PUBLIC".
Do they inform you, that if you make an internet purchase, that you don't have a warranty...NO, they don't. They use the same marketing brochures as the manufacturer and give a false sense of security to the unknowing consumer that fails to read the "fine print".
I wish that I would have read a post such as this one before I purchased my Goodman unit over the internet.
NEVER AGAIN!
trublue55
14 years agoIn my neck of the woods (Oregon) Carrier is running a $1000 rebate for their Infinity ICS Furnace/AC combo and $1100 rebate for Infinity ICS Furnace/HP combo. I think it lasts thru May.
brickeyee
14 years agoThere is a provision in the refrigerant laws that allows unlicensed folks to purchase condensers containing R22.
They are not legally supposed to to open the valves on the unit to release the refrigerant.
A number of companies (like Goodman and others) have been trying to avoid having their units sold under this provision.
They will not provide any warranty for these quasi 'gray market' units.
jalleyjr_hotmail_com
14 years agoWow...thanks for all the good info, but I'm still confused! I have two scenarios I am considering.
Option 1. Goodman SSZ1403161A/AERF420616C 14 SEER 3-Ton Heat Pump(15 SEER with the variable speed air handler) which the installer "says" is eligible for the $1500 tax credit for $4,333.50 (technically a $1300 credit). 10 year labor and parts and limited lifetime on the compressor)
Option 2. Lennox XP14 15 SEER 3 Ton Heat pump with a 3.5 Ton non-variable speed air handler and a Healthy Climate 10/MERV10 filter. $5890.00 5 year parts/1 year labor and compressor?? and eligible for the full $1,500.00 tax credit.
Both Options are from companies that have been in business for 30+ years.
My problem is...do you truly get what you pay for,or does the warranty and price difference clearly justify going with the Goodman over the Lennox? I can afford either one, but I do not want to spend more money just for a "Name-Brand".
garyg
14 years agoLook at the warranties offered to you.
Your Goodman quote includes a 10 year labor warranty and lifetime condenser warranty (part only) to you, the original homeowner. Other quote is 1 year labor warranty, 5 years parts. Goodman quote has a v-s motor in air handler, other quote has a PSC motor.
Like night and day.
And $1000 less.
Good luck.
ryanhughes
14 years agoThe Lennox will have a 10-year warranty if the buyer registers it with Lennox after installation. See link attached. Trane is doing the same thing, and so is Carrier as far as I know.
My assumption is the Lennox has an X13 motor, which is not variable speed where the Goodman has the advantage. The X13 is a very efficient motor and does a good job, but I'd prefer the variable speed motor for better ability to control humidity and better performance.
Here is a link that might be useful: Lennox Extended Warranty
pepnic
14 years agoWe had a Goodman Heat Pump installed in 2005, and we have been very happy with it. Just now, I am seeing the first problems with it, but I think it may just be a capacitor (compressor will not start, but hums.) It's extremely hot here right now (panhandle of FL,) and the unit gets it's workouts between April and October.
I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to home AC systems, but I am a field engineer and technically competent. I tend to agree with the folks above that stress the importance of a proper install. I'm sure most major manufacturers use similar components in order to remain competitive. The old addage 'you get what you pay for' does usually ring true, however.
cupofkindness
14 years agoWill Goodman be here in 10 years to back up their warranty? This is my main concern with any deal that seems to good to be true. I would only go with a company with an established record of quality when it comes to a purchase as significant as an air conditioning system. I also see it as investing the in the resale value of your house, you don't want something you installed to save $1,000 become a negative when you try to sell.
I saw this at a Toyota dealership many years ago: "Buy quality and you only cry once." So true.
ryanhughes
14 years agoGoodman is one of the top manufacturers of HVAC equipment (believe they are second in market share behind Carrier/ICP, but I could have it backwards or be wrong). I don't think they're going anywhere so long as they keep building the inexpensive equipment they are infamous for.
jetzoom99_yahoo_com
13 years agoI've owned two Rheem 3 ton units and basically nursed them along for about 17 years. I installed a 4 ton Goodman 2 years ago. So far so good. It is simple with less stuff to break and I have confidence in Copeland compressors. The air handler was not at all flimsy in my opinion. It weighs a ton and was a mother to lift into the attic. If it has the same components as more expensive equipment, then how can it be worse? If the factory welds are good it should hold up great. What happens is, when the installation is botched (ie; slag in tubing, air left in lines, old oil etc) the unit craps out and folks get on line and rag the unit. Never knowing what some hack did while installing it. I'm installing another Goodman this weekend. I know techs who love em. I'm not gonna pay twice the price. Hi dollar units break too.
telycaster_hotmail_com
13 years agoAnother note for those who are worried. Get 4 bids on the same ton unit and hopefully references. Call your local air condition parts supplier and ask for a couple of installers names. Or call a couple of builders and they may tell you who NOT to use. Beware of quid pro quo deals among the business. Make sure all parts are listed with labor and tax. If going from a R22 unit to a 410a unit ask if the copper from the outside unit to the attic unit will be re-used or replaced. If reused make double dog sure the flush it correctly. Beware of contractors that send trainees to do the job. Respectfully insist on them being there to supervise the entire operation. Educate yourself and make sure you are off that day. Ask questions politely if a red light appears in your mind. Lastly treat installers with respect and maybe throw in a pizza for being a pain!
Bud_C
9 years agoGoodman is a piece of trash. Ranks at 2nd to bottom of a leading consumer monthly magazine (CR) for central air conditioning systems. The builder of my new home 4 years ago installed a 14 SEER model SSX140481AE, against my complaints. Said I had no choice but to accept the Goodman.
It just gave out after 4 summers of use last week.
I'll be getting the "top rated" American Standard Gold 17 soon. Reem and Trane tied for 2nd place BTW.
In this case, you get what you pay for, as Goodman is the least expensive.
Also, if you don't register the Goodman AC unit within 60 days, when it does break on day 61, there is NO limited warranty (unless you live in California where they passed laws against businesses like Goodman to prevent this). Otherwise there is a 5 year LIMITED warranty for parts only. Ten years on the compressor.
countryboymo