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Trane as replacement

Posted by jeniferkey (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 3, 11 at 17:22

In North Texas, replacing a unit because it's old and we increased the size of the house. Original unit was 2 ton, now looking at a 3 ton unit. The install will include moving the unit to a different location and replacing duct work, adding supply and return runs as needed to the addition.
Just checking if this combination seems like a good fit for an attic and close to 1800 sq feet in two floors. They came out and did load testing, so I think the sizing was figured out properly.
There's a 10 yr parts warranty, and two yr labor. It seems there's an offer of an extended warranty, but the price is already at our upper limit. We like the contractor and used the tax break last year. We might be able to get in on the State offer. I was a little surprised that they said we'd have to hire an electrician to come out and extend the wires and that wouldn't be a part of their bid. Didn't know if that was normal.
Thanks for any feedback.

The condenser model # 4TWR503631000A (XR15 series)
The air handler model # 4TEE3F39A1000A,
The heat strips model # BAYHTR1415BRKC,
return filter base with 4” filter,


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Trane as replacement

If your moving your outside unit to a different location then it doesn't surprise me if you have to extend wires. That can be a pain in the behind.

keep in mind there are other good brands that cost less than Trane. You might be able to find competitively priced independent installers who have access to Trane's sister company (american standard).

Other companies like York/Luxaire/Coleman, Rheem/Ruud, Carrier/Bryant, and more make good equipment too. Most of these companies use the same equipment and offer good warranties.


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RE: Trane as replacement

jenifer

a heck of a nice system.

see performance/efficiency numbers below.

3519775 Active Systems XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5036E1 4TEE3F39A1 36000 13.00 15.00 34000 9.00 23600

what thermostat was quoted?

on the heat strip, what size is that? for a three ton, I would want Trane's 7/12 KW staged heat strip model.

I would not purchase a new HP system without electronic demand defrost and of course this system has this feature.

You might consider same system(Heritage 15) from Trane's sister company, American Standard, which is normally less expensive.

IMO


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RE: Trane as replacement

Model #TZEMT400AB32MAA http://part2.schlage.com/docs/Thermostat_User_Manual-a.pdf is the thermostat we want. My husband wants to have control over the internet, and this allows for that. Is there much to a thermostat? Is there a good reason why we should go with something different?

I don't know on the heat strip. I'm guessing 15kw, just because I remember a debate back and forth, but not sure which was agreed on.

We figure we could pay less, but we've had this company do other installs and support work, and we're really happy working with them. We've worked with other A/C companies that didn't work well with us. If the system is good, we really want to go with these guys and support their company. I just wanted to check that the system did seem right for the house since there is such a range.
Thanks.


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RE: Trane as replacement

jenifer

I am not familiar with this internet connected thermostat.

perhaps another member can comment.

However, I would spend my money on the two stg heat strip that I recommended above before this thermostat. why? it will help control operating costs for winter heating.

IMO


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RE: Trane as replacement

A follow up. They ended up putting in a Lennox 14HPX-036 with a CBX32MV inside. No notes on what the heat strip is. Not thrilled, but they couldn't get the Trane model and there was a little mis-communication on what they would get instead. I'm not happy that I didn't ask for the model #s when they said they would switch from the Trane, but I thought they said they'd get a Carrier similar to the Trane. I guess there's as good a chance this one will work as well as anything else. The outside unit sounds like an airplane and after reading here I'm disappointed that I'm paying almost the same amount as I would have for the Trane. Plus, it's 5 days later and they still aren't finished (one guy hurt himself the first day and the 'crew' dropped to one person with no heat for two nights in a row). Here's hoping my Texas rebate works, at least if I get that money back I'll cheer up a little.


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RE: Trane as replacement

This doesn't sit well with me. You were quoted a nice Trane system, and they installed a Lennox system that is not quite up to par with the Trane initially quoted? Why wouldn't they be able to get the Trane, and why would they quote one system with intent to install another? I have an issue with this bait and switch. The 14HPX is from the Merit line, which is Lennox's lower end equipment. It isn't bad, and if registered within 90 days with Lennox will have a 10 year warranty. But the XP14 is what they should have installed, and much more similar to the XR15. I think they went for whatever is cheaper for them to purchase. You seem to be an established customer with this company and hopefully have some room to discuss this with them. Have you paid the full balance? I imagine not since they aren't finished.


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Model numbers

Jenifer,

What are the complete model numbers (on the units themselves) that they installed? The Lennox system installed will not have the same efficiency ratings as the Trane system would. Not sure if the contract specified any efficiency ratings the equipment would provide.


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RE: Trane as replacement

a cheap Lennox condenser compared to a nice Trane. a very poor choice.

while not a Lennox fan, I agree with Ryan that the XP14 would have been OK but still not as good as the Trane XR15. anyone telling you otherwise is simply not telling the truth.

sorry but you will regret it.

IMO


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RE: Trane as replacement

The original bid said equipment will be a 3 ton Heat Pump system with electric heat backup rated at 15 seer and /13 eer using R410A freon.
We'd already missed the end of the year install they first thought they could do for the Federal rebate. I was ok with that, but then they said that Trane couldn't tell them when they would get in the Trane unit and I mentioned I was getting worried about losing out on the Texas rebate. In a phone call they came back with (I thought) a Carrier model that would be slightly less BTU and eer rating, but otherwise close to the Trane.
When they showed up with a Lennox, I didn't question it, but today I was going through the rebate info with the model #s (will get complete when I get home tonight) and read the reviews on it. They did say it will be $400 less than the Trane, but I'm irritated we weren't offered the option of low or medium end compared to what the Trane was. I don't know enough about the difference to know if that's a decent discount for the switch. I guess I can go with - the amount of noise the outside unit creates is impressive.


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RE: Trane vs Lennox XP14 or 14HPX

jenifer

I suspect the only winner here was the dealer certainly not you. that condenser at the very least should be exchanged with the XP14.

I would say you have been taken advantage of badly.

neither Lennox condensers-XP14 or 14HPX are even close to being comparable to the Trane system originally quoted.

IMO


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RE: Stuck?

Tiger
With it installed, aren't I pretty much stuck with make the best of it? The heat pump is working, but no A/C yet. I think they're back out on Friday to finish up. I have told them of my disappointment on learning that this was a low end Lennox unit.


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RE: Trane as replacement

a classic example of bait and switch...and the homeowner is on the losing end.


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RE: Trane as replacement

I agree with tiger but do sympathize with the buyer's situation. I hope it works out that you can get the XP14. It would be a nice system. While I'd prefer the XR15, the XP14 is very comparable with a compressor sound hood, low sound rating (likely quieter than the XR15), compressor/coil protection, etc.

I don't buy it for a minute that Trane couldn't get a 3 ton XR15. First, the XR15 is one of Trane's most popular models, one of the most commonly installed units to get the tax credit. Second, the size is 3 ton, again a common size. Not sure where they're getting their units...


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RE: Trane as replacement plus bait and switch

absolutely and emphatically agree with Ryan.

homeowner needs to have a word of prayer with dealer.

again a classic and worse case of bait and switch.

I would not accept this system. period!

IMO


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RE: Model #s

Since you asked for model #s.
Lennox 14hpx-036-230
Lennox cbx32mv-048-230-6-06

Looking at the AHRI site, it looks like the condenser would match with the XP14 compressor ok. I'll make the call today and see what happens.


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RE: Trane as replacement

knowing how this dealer operates, the XP14 probably won't be available just like the popular XR15. of course all of this is nonsense.

IMO


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RE: Trane as replacement

Or, the 14HPX is the "exact same" as the XP14, just different cabinet.

I do hope this works out for the homeowner. They put a nice variable speed unit inside, wish they could have put something better than the baseline heat pump outside.


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RE: Trane as replacement

I called, and the XP14-036 is coming tomorrow. I hated putting them through the trouble, but they were great about saying they would make it right, whatever I felt needed to happen. It's difficult for me to believe this was done maliciously. I think they tend to sell Trane, and just looked for the lowest cost Lennox that would get the rebate.
Anyway, thank you for your 'encouragement'. I don't think I'd have had the confidence to push if it weren't for you guys. You've definitely done your good deed for the month.


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RE: Trane as replacement

jenifer

still not the same grade as the Trane, but the XP14 is much better than the 14HPX.

what size heat strip was installed?

what thermostat was installed?

I am not completely happy but this is better than leaving as is.

make certain you get the equipment registered for the warranty.

and if you would, let us know how it's performing after about a week's operation.

before I go, let's look at the numbers together.

3519775 Active Systems XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5036E1 4TEE3F39A1 36000 13.00 15.00 34000 9.00 23600

1275584 Active Systems 14HPX SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. 14HPX-036-230* CBX32MV-048*+TDR 35800 12.50 15.00 35200 8.50 21200

1292429 Active Systems XP14 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XP14-036-230* CBX32MV-048*+TDR 35800 13.00 15.00 35200 8.75 21200

IMO
Good Luck!


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RE: Trane as replacement

Well, we made it through an extreme winter week in Texas with the new system. We were snowed in for four days and quite happy with the system. My husband is so happy with it he wants to send a letter to the installers. We'd never had the house warm when we were in the 20s and last week we hit the teens for long periods of time. We'd bought the thermostat that can be controlled from our iPhones, and love that we can tweak it from the couch or office.

The first day was a bit stressful with power outages, breakers tripping and the heater fighting to warm the house back up between power issues. The second day we only had one outage early on and then the thing just worked.

I am a little upset about some power issues we need to deal with. Someone else had posted that they would need another 60 amp breaker if they replaced their A/C unit, and I'd asked the electrician (my father) and the A/C guys if we needed to worry about more power being needed for the new system. Everyone said it would use the same power lines, no problem.

The day they came to hook up, it was discovered that only one 60 amp line was going to the inside unit and the heat strip power was piggy backed off of that (or the reverse). Of course the new unit would need two 60 amp lines going to it. We happened to have an extra 60 amp breaker not being used, and we ran an extra wire to that for the air handler, so everything would have power.

That 60 amp was for an extra hot water heater that I guess wasn't used much. Because, during the cold snap, I turned on the dryer while the heat was on and blew the whole house breaker. After discussing things, we got the breaker off and on again, and things going again. As a test I ran the dryer again and the breaker again blew after 10 minutes.

So, now I need to get an electrician out (not my father), to see if that breaker box can hold a higher amperage main breaker. Right now it's at 100. I'm not sure the house brings in enough off the transformer. I thought it was an issue when I considered an on-demand water heater and we didn't have the power to do it. During the cold snap, I'd turn off the breakers to the Heater any time I wanted to dry clothes. It wasn't a long term solution, and it's probably something we need to solve before we're running the A/C this summer.

Oh, and the heat strip we have now is 15kw, the one it replaced was 10kw. I'm not sure if that's what put us over the edge, or if it's the condenser or a combination of things. Hopefully an electrician will be able to get us set up and working right.


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RE: Trane as replacement

have you noticed significantly less electricity usage with your new heat-pump?

How do you like the demand-defrost feature?


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RE: Trane as replacement

We don't watch the meter and with the extreme cold for last week, I don't think we'll see that much difference in this bill. I'll be sure to check when the bill comes in to see.

I'm not sure what the demand-defrost feature is. We like the two stage that kicks up to high when things aren't getting warm as fast as they should. Also, coming from the heat strip to the heat pump, I like that the heat doesn't feel as drying. My husband would rather it blow HOT when it's blowing, but I like that it only does when it needs to. The house doesn't seem as stuffy as before, but it usually feels comfortable. Before it would be cold or hot and neither really felt comfortable.


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RE: Trane as replacement

I wanted to follow on with this post as I have a very similar equipment situation. My elderly father just had his system replaced (they are literally finishing today) and I just got the details of it and wanted to run by the people on this thread. Keep in mind the price is $6151 before tax.

CBX32MV-048 Air Handler
14HPX-048 outdoor unit
New Germicidal light
New return added to hall
downstairs

If anyone can give me a sanity check on whether my father was taken to the cleaners, I would GREATLY appreciate it !!


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RE: Trane as replacement

xbillbaker,

We wouldn't touch that job for that price. He got a great deal.

Keep in mind that every install is different though and pricing varies from region to region. But it does sound good from here.


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RE: Trane as replacement

xbill

for a 4 ton HP condenser with matching VS air handler , an excellent price. however, that is a low end Lennox HP condenser. The XP14 would have been a better mdl and well worth any price difference.

what size heat strip installed?

new thermostat installed?

if you read the entire thread above, you will get the picture.

IMO


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RE: Trane as replacement

Jeni: AC should not be as big an electrical issue as heat. That is because during your low temps the 15kw heat strips were activating. 15kw = approximately 60 amps by itself.


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RE: Trane as replacement

Now that we've gotten into cooling time in Texas (yes, I know it's still Feb), we haven't seen the power issues. I still want to get an electrician out to balance things for the heat strips, but you're right that the A/C doesn't seem to cause the problem. So far it's easily cooling, but we need to see when we're in the 100s for weeks at a time. We like the 'auto' feature on the thermostat. We didn't have that with the old one. It'll kick back and forth for us, day and night, when it needs heat and a/c.
We left in our old ceiling filters, but after reading on here, I'll remove them. It sounds like the 4" filter should do the work they do.


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RE: Trane as replacement

Another follow up after a couple of months of bills. Compared to the same months last year we're seeing considerable savings. Last month the kw usage was almost 1/2 and even the month before with the extremely cold weather we saved around $200 off the previous year. It won't pay us back for the unit, but we are heating/cooling an extra 400 sq feet and paying less for electricity to do it. Really a nice thing to see.


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