Thanks for this post saltydawg. My current gas furnace and AC work but I've been hearing on heat pump techniques (used for interior AC units too, I understand).

This is a good followup post by Salti that I recall when he installed this system. It points out that there are always trade-offs in purchases one makes especially HVAC. Salti gets the savings from the heat pump heat that reduces his oil usage substantially plus at the lower outside temps, that nice oil heat for superior comfort.

Still hate oil though for both the price and the fact that it helps America's enemies. Don't think price will change on oil, probably will keep increasing. But it's interesting with the reports that the US will be become less dependent on foreign oil supplies over the next decade.

IMO

saltidawg,

Which GE model do you have? Is it loud? Does it take up much space? Any issues with it?

Tigerdune wrote:

"But it's interesting with the reports that the US will be become less dependent on foreign oil supplies over the next decade."

I wonder how much of that will be due to increased domestic supplies, as opposed to government restrictions on use of oil for heating, power plants, and gasoline powered vehicles, etc..

Of course, hybrid and all-electric vehicles will be powered by windmills.

V

Dave2425,

In 2010 I bought the GE GeoSpring from Lowes. The only size available at that time was 50 Gallon and my old hot water heater was coincidentally 50 gallons.

IIRC I paid a whopping $1399 plus installation. (I see that they are somewhat cheaper now - under $1000.) Also, there are competing products such as Sears and Rheem at Home Depot. Careful when comparing... the Coefficient of Performance(COP or a measure of "efficiency" for the GE is 2.4, for the Rheem it is something under 2.0 - 1.7 IIRC.

Regular hot water heaters generally come in one of two profiles... "Tall" or "Standard." My old hot water heater was about 65" tall. My GE heat pump model was 3" shorter.

With the GE Models, the design is such that installation connections are in the traditional locations - water and electricity on the top.

The Heat Pump Hot Water Heater is much noisier then the essentially silent conventional electric heater. In fact, it is louder than my home heat pump! Mine is in my basement and the noise is not sn issue. However, if your location is in a utility closet off a bedroom I'd not think these would be a candidate.

These units do remove moisture from the air and the resulting condensate must be disposed of to a floor drain or via a condensate pump.

The Feds have extended the 2011 energy tax credit to include 2012 and 2013. This purchase qualifies for up to a $300 credit if you have not already reached your $500 limit. Note, that is a Tax CREDIT!

In MD, they do not collect sales tax on hot water heaters with a COP of 1.7 or greater. County gave me a Property Tax credit of $250 IIRC, and MD and Power Company gave me rebates.

My household consists of just my wife and I. The 50 Gal tank operated in Heat Pump (Only) mode works just fine for us. Never run out of hot water.

When my four young granddaughters and their two sets of parents visited for the Christmas Holiday, I set the Heater to "High Demand" and used a combination of the regular 4500W heaters and the heat pump. My electric bill went up a few dollars for that period... lol.

The GE also has a connection to allow communication with the Power Company such that it will operate to heat water during low demand/cost times of day. My Power Company does not support this feature.

Honestly, if there was a way for me to be assured that I would reap the financial savings, I would buy all of my neighbors one of these units. The payback in my area is HUGE! My ROI far exceeds what I can do in the Stock Market or other investments I have.

tigerdunes,

You said, "This is a good followup post by Salti..."

I utilized the talent on this board in determining my home heat pump and furnace sizes and model selection. Went out on my own on the hot water heater.

One message I received loud and clear from you and other forum members was the importance of "installation, installation, installation."

I again thank you and the other forum members for great (free) advice!

A Happy and Prosperous New Year to all!

I wanted to mention that BOTH Lowes and Home Depot offer a 10% Military Discount EVERY DAY, year round, to Active Duty and Retired Military Members and their Dependents.

This discount is available at the register at the time of checkout. If the Clerk says she or he doesn't know anything about that or says it doesn't apply on your purchase, ask for a Manager. (The only restriction is that it is limited to $500 ($5000 purchase) per checkout.)

I was a US Navy Submariner for 24 years and I am extremely grateful to these two companies for this prograrm!

Thanks for the info saltidawg.

We currently have well water and should be getting rural water next year. At that time, I plan to replace our propane water heater with either a heat pump model or a Marathon hooked up to off-peak electric.

Dave2425,

I looked at a Marathon Heater at Home Depot just now... it says, "0.92 energy factor signifies a high-efficiency heater"

The GE GeoSpring has has an energy factor of 2.24.

Your operating costs will be two and one half times as great with the Marathon.

I've been recommending heat pump water heaters
to my clients for several years.
for us..in a cooling climate, the 1/2 ton
of a/c, plus the addtional
dehumidification is added savings.
can't beat the jump in COP on these
units.

glad it has worked out so well for you!

With my apologies, post deleted.

This post was edited by saltidawg on Tue, Jan 15, 13 at 6:35

Are heat pump water heaters cheaper to operate than natural gas ones, or just cheaper than an electrical resistance unit?

snidely,

I have not performed an analysis comparing the cost effectiveness of natural gas vs heat pump hot water heaters.

My intuition says they are going to be pretty close for typical utility costs.

Maybe someone with natural gas available has already done the comparison.

http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/heat-pump-water-heaters

Heat pump water heaters require installation in locations that remain in the 40��90�F (4.4��32.2�C) range year-round and provide at least 1,000 cubic feet (28.3 cubic meters) of air space around the water heater. Cool exhaust air can be exhausted to the room or outdoors. Install them in a space with excess heat, such as a furnace room. Heat pump water heaters will not operate efficiently in a cold space. They tend to cool the spaces they are in. You can also install an air-source heat pump system that combines heating, cooling, and water heating. These combination systems pull their heat indoors from the outdoor air in the winter and from the indoor air in the summer. Because they remove heat from the air, any type of air-source heat pump system works more efficiently in a warm climate.
________________________________________________________

this is what I ment, that there is a cooled air discharge
6,000 btu in an hour so it may not feel as cool
as it is...but it is there.
where you notice or feel the difference
is in the dehumidification this cool air
provides.
fan, evaporator,compressor..mini hvac system
on top of water heater.

just info saltidawg.

Post deleted by SaltiDawg

This post was edited by saltidawg on Tue, Jan 15, 13 at 6:36

should have looked for a better written article.
I'm a big fan of Alison Bailes.
we even share the hot water heater pet peeve!
hopefully you'll give this one a B+!

how about this one Saltidawg?
please keep in mind my experience is in
a cooling climate..unlike yours in a cold climate.
oh, and poke around on the site.
the blog is excellent. and the list of topics to
the right of all things in the blog.

http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-building-science-HERS-BPI/bid/32265/Heat-Pump-Water-Heaters-A-Better-Way-to-Heat-Water-with-Electricity

Post deleted by SaltiDawg

This post was edited by saltidawg on Tue, Jan 15, 13 at 6:37

Saltidawg,
you aren't offending me at all.
there is a lot I have learned from your
posts over the years that we have been here.

it was not my intent to de-rail your thread.
but I have to say...you've given me food
for thought.

I'd like to continue the conversation.
If you'd like, please drop me an email.

thanks, Debbie

Salti,

Is it Aye Aye, Chief or Aye Aye, Sir? Thanks for your service in either case.

Energy,
Thank you for your service too!

Post deleted by SaltiDawg

This post was edited by saltidawg on Tue, Jan 15, 13 at 6:38

I meant "was", so you were an Annapolis grad and it was Sir?

Very interesting background. I'm younger than you but I certainly remember Roger Staubach.

Ship silencing, as in drive shafts, bearings, propeller shape? (I read the Hunt for Red October, that's all I know).

Post deleted by SaltiDawg

This post was edited by saltidawg on Tue, Jan 15, 13 at 6:41