Don't waste your time chasing a class action suit. The only folks that get anything out of this deal, and others like it, are the attorneys.

You have a 19 year old furnace, which, more than likely, has served you well. Replace it...it has done its job. Any contractor worth their salt will advise you of the same.

Another lesson learned - contract a REPUTABLE contractor, that is factory authorized, they will take care of all of the warranty paper work for you.

Good luck!

This is a done deal. Carrier will pay a healthy portion of a new furnace and up to $450.00 labor for the contractor changeout. I replaced 4 of them last year at a cost af approx $200.00 to $300.00 to the homeowner. To my knowledge there has been no class action suit, although possibly there should have been. ^They will replace it however with the same furnace with the same eventual future problems, and the contractor will wait 90 days for reimbursement.

swh - it's not too late. Contact a Bryant/Carrier dealer or supplier that gives a damn and they should give you the lowdown. Or call Carrier Corp.

Update:
Dealer's service manager is back and says Carrier will pay approximately half of labor, which means my out of pocket is about $350-450. This is a no-brainer for me not to get a new furnace. In addition, he offered another option. For about another $600 He will also replace the PRIMARY heat exchanger at the same time, since there is little extra labor involved. I would have two new heat exchangers for about $1,000. This would practically be a new furnace, since no other repairs on this machine is likely to be more than $300-400, and several key parts have been replaced over the years (2 different circuit boards, Induction motor and housing, blower motor,). The heat exchangers have a long warantee. Am I missing anything in my thinking?

"Is there a central source to find recall notices for a lot of products? "

CPSC usually lists them.

Consumer Product Safety Commission

Shw

What mdl, efficiency and size is your existing furnace?

A couple of questions.

This is a secondary heat exchanger that has failed?

Do you get a warranty with the heat exchanger replacement? Just to the original homeowner?

Is a cash settlement available to apply toward a new furnace?

Do you mind sharing your location?

IMO

Answers to Tigerdune's questions:

What mdl, efficiency and size is your existing furnace? Model no.: Bryant 398AAV, 100,000 BTUs, AFUE = 92% efficiency.

This is a secondary heat exchanger that has failed? YES

Do you get a warranty with the heat exchanger replacement? Just to the original homeowner? --- There is a warranty. Not sure if it is only for original, but we expect to be in this house for a while.

Is a cash settlement available to apply toward a new furnace? Yes, but this would only be $400-800, perhaps $1,000, so a new furnace would sitll cost about $2500-3000 out of pocket. (it's difficult to get an exact answer out of Carrier until you actually submit paperwork).

Do you mind sharing your location? Maryland, near Washington, DC. Things tend to cost more in my area.

IMO

I would want to know the warranty to you on the heat exchanger, whether secondary or both secondary and primary.

I assume that if you replaced both heat exchangers, everything else on that furnace is out of warranty.

I would want to know the cash settlement whether applied toward another Carrier furnace or even another brand of your choice.

Only with this information in hand can you make a good informed decision.

IMO

Thanks to all of you that posted this information, it was very helpful to me.

My 20 year old Bryant 90+ furnace quit last week. The secondary heat exchanger was clogged with the polypropylene liner that had peeled off and had several rusty holes in it.

After reading this forum, I called my local Bryant Dealer who was very helpful and ordered a new secondary heat exchanger for me at no cost. He also informed me that Carrier pays around $300 towards labor to replace it. Since I had already removed the heat exchanger from my furnace that covered the cost to install the new heat exchanger. This repair cost me $0 and my furnace is running great.

Thank you Carrier for standing behind your product.

I am a heating contractor and I have been appalled to talk with customers and find out that other contractors have charged them up to $1200 for this repair. I have done a few of these and the reimbursement to me has been the part at no charge and 4 hours of labor at my labor rate. The work usually takes me between 3 and 4 hours, sometimes a little less. Contractors lying to customers and "double-dipping" give the entire industry a bad name. Carrier also offers a credit towards the replacement of the furnace with a new Carrier / Bryant / Payne furnace. This amount varies from model to model.

John

Domainer you are lucky you didn't void the warranty by taking the heat exchanger out yourself.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I Recently received a check from Carrier for just under $800. So I got two new heat exchangers and a bunch of other parts for $300 ($1,100 I paid my HVAC contractor a couple of months ago less $800). Some of the labor charges from the contractor may have been lower because I have a service contract with them. I feel I was treated well.

However, I second Nappin's point that some contractors will not inform you of it, either because they don't know about it, or they are greedy. The technician on the original service call, an experienced guy, did not know about it (or did not say anything about it). If it weren't for the folks on this web site and GOOGLE, I would probably not have known and would have ordered the expensive repair. Once I did speak to the supervisor, he took care of all the paperwork. Also, if I had sent in the warrantee card after the unit was installed, I probably would have been notified.

Again, thanks to everyone and to this forum.

I just read the terms of the settlement. My furnace which is included in the settlement was installed 1993. It applies only to the secondary heat exchanger. Mine is now 19 years old and has not yet failed, though it is somewhat rusted on the inside. How the lawyer for carrier could argue that a polypropylene coating on steel is equal to using Stainless Steel just goes to show you how lawyers can argue about anything, regardless of whether it has any basis in fact. Were I to apply for remuneration under this suit, the best I could get would be 105 dollars. Wowee. I guess the lawyers took all the white meat before the rest of us got to the turkey, as usual. This happened to me once before. I received mail about how this law firm was working on my behalf. They worked for 7 years until the carcass was picked as clean as a bleached skeleton in the Arizona mid day sun. I received a check for 61 cents after 7 years, Dont spend it all in one place. Just goes to show you, when you have a lawyer on your side, he will always be on the side where you keep your wallet.

You did not have to enter the class action suit to receive this benefit; if your furnace is less than 20 years old and is one of the ones in the suit it's covered. Whether or not you sent in a previous warranty card is irrelevant. They have to either give you a credit for a new furnace (annoyingly, you can find out the specific amount only when your installer calls his distributor with your serial number); or give you a new primary heat exchanger (no labor included) and a new secondary heat exchanger, with labor included. Call 1-800-carrier if your local dealer is clueless, they can give you a list of dealers that are registered to work under the enhanced warranty, which is who you need, but you are covered. If no local dealers can be found, call again and senior management can help you, as you are entitled to have someone do the work. Tell Carrier your serial number to see if your unit is covered, there's also a list of covered models here. http://www.mainheating.com/lawsuit.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: carrier models covered

My mom had the current Carrier furnace put in about 2000. Our family had always used Hoekstra Heating. She passed away in 2002 and I remained in the house. I kept the service maintenance on the furnace for cleaning. When "Engineer" gave her the info on the furnace, it was suppose to be the latest and greatest. It was 90% efficient and Safe for the environment. So she choose this which meant they had to do a new chimney pipe.

In 2014, I had the furnace cleaned. The fellow did he job and went out to his truck for awhile. He seemed agitated and told me the part on my furnace was going and I should consider buying a new furnace. Yadda, yadda..thus was the day before Thanksguving. He said, he could schedule that same day with the "Engineer." I refused that day, but set up an appt.for the next week. The same guy came out only this time, he couldn't say anything nice about the Carrier furnaces. He talked about the bad part. He and how if a new part was put in it would just fail again. He was all set for me to buy another furnace then and there. I didn't know what to do. I brought the conversation back to the law suit he briefly mentioned. He fumbled around as if he did not want to give me any details. They also said I couldn't do anything until the part failed. I felt I was being totally pressured to do or die. The bottom line was that my furnace WAS working so I did nothing. The serviceman was rude and the "Engineer" had only one thing in mind. Just sell me a furnace no matter what the cost.

I had the furnace checked and cleaned in November. It was still working. But the service man this time was much nicer. He told me the rust particals had increased and the furnace could go out. I did do a new service agreement in the event something happened.

My furnace is not working and I feel I was screwed by everyone!! He also said the furnace WAS 15 years old and that was the normal life. Well, if that's the case why is there a 20 yr warranty on another part? I just hate dealing with these people!! One would think that they would take care if their long standing customers. It's all about the money!! I'm tired of fighting to get things done right!! I just want an honest answer from someone and feel I should nit have to pay for someone else's mistakes!! I guess I'll start with Carrier first and then deal with the Knuckle Heads at the heating place!

i

I just had the same problem this past week and Carrier is covering it. I just called 800carrier and gave them the serial number. Mine was built in 2001 and they are covering the secondary heat exchanger and pipes. The installer did not bill be anything yet.

Thanks Tony for letting me know. Carrier did tell me it would be covered too. After I talked with Carrier, I call Hoekstra and finally talked to Steve and he said that after they did the work Carrier didn't pay it all. He felt his company shouldn't absorb the cost either. I told him the bottom line was that I wasn't paying anything! And as far as I'm concerned if it breaks down again, they just fix it again!!

Carrier may only pay the labor charges to a Carrier Authorized Factory Dealer. Hoekstra Heating does not appear to be one. You may have with find a Carrier FAD if you want this repaired covered for free.

My 2001 msa carrier furnace heat exchangers just went out. Getting soot on the exhaust pipe and a bad smell through the vents and exhaust pipe as well. Have had 3 techs come to site. The first techs, I went under so I could learn a thing or 2, showed me what the problem was and stated I needed the heat exchangers replaced as they were clogged. They lit the flame and it wasn't being drawn in..it was just orange and flowing. The second was a carrier dealer who had no intention of changing the heat exchanger, even though he demanded I let him check the system first. He spent about 3 mins underneath and said yeah..your heat exchangers are shot. After I told him about the warranty, he wanted NOTHING to do with me, but was more than happy to send quotes for a new unit. Just today, I had a tech come in today, the third one, and he quoted me 1600 dollars for the work. He stated I needed other parts (inlet something and coupling kit extra 500 bucks, while other techs didn't) and that his labor came out to be 1k ( and none of it was covered under anything..what?). I then proceeded to ask how he came up with 1k for the labor and he told me that it would take 2 guys 3 hours to do the work. Because I knew this would come up, I had already got a quote on their rates, which was 104/hr. How he came up with 6hrs = 1k is beyond me. I'm more than happy to pay to get my furnace up and running but after reading so many forums, I've come to the conclusion this isn't going to be easy as there are going to be hvac's who don't know about the warranty, don't care and those who are just out to screw you. Oddly enough, carrier themselves have been GREAT. They've been emphatic with the willing contractors that join me on a bridge, that both parts are warrantied and the 2nd heat exchanger labor is covered. It's been 2 weeks and I still haven't found a trusting tech nor a tech that will do the job. How these HVAC's are more than willing to sell the goods but not honor a warranty is simply apalling. Can ANY of you techs here for sure speak on the amount of time it would take? Nappin_jake, if you're still around, was it just a one man crew in less than 4 hours or more? Any advice would be appreciated.

Hello,

I'm reading the above comments; first reaction is, be thankful you're alive. My daughter and I almost were killed by the 'defective*' secondary heating element in our Carrier 99 High Efficiency furnace.

Everyone who owns one of furnaces involved will be exposed to CO & Hydrogen Cyanide.

In April 2015, Fire departments (from two cities) responded to my 911. Our home was consumed in a white chemical acrid smelling smoke in less than one minute. FD discovered it was the furnace - it reached over 1000 degrees and wouldn't shut off.

It was 9pm, FD said within 2-4 hrs home would've exploded or burned to the ground. My daughter and I succumbed to CO or HCN and died.

When Carrier et. claims it has a 'defective' part, this translates into 'potentially deadly part.'

Before anyone blames me, the homeowner, I want to state some facts:

- My Carrier furnace was NEVER recalled

- My furnace was serviced 2 weeks prior to combusion, and twice a year for 15 years.

- CO detectors, they continually 'beeped' (an insane alarm system, they should ALARM, but another story).

- Called gas company, repeatedly, to check the CO in the house, said all was fine; just bad batteries or bad detectors. Kept replacing, every other month.

- FD advised when CO alarms go off (get the type that alarms not beep type), call the FD, not gas company. Gas co. does not regulate or require calibration of contracted out CO testers.

- I repeatedly lost consciousness and many other symptoms, but EMT's never thought or asked about CO. Nobody thinks of it until deaths occur.

- Pulse oximeters WILL NOT DETECT CO poisoning. Must be a CO-Oximeter.

Carbon Monoxide and hydrogen cyanide are released as the polypropylene laminate degrades over time. These odorless gasses also corrode the sensors, furnace won't shut off. Homes and building explode.

We lost our home. Our health. Carrier knew the dangers and never recalled the death trap in over 4 million residential homes.

This is a bit of an old thread, but I came across a failed Bryant heat exchanger today and ended up here.

The ethics of the parties involved keeps coming up. To me the ethical thing is to walk away from Carrier/Bryant as a brand, for the home owner and the service companies. In the long run these furnaces will fail again and Carrier will get their money back through replacement, repair parts and market share. Stop rewarding the manufacturing of a poor product.

I don't think it's right to expect a completely paid for heat exchanger replacement on a 10+ year old furnace either.

3 weeks ago the Heat Exchanger on my Carrier Infinity 96 that was installed in 2006 (barely 10 years old) had the Heat Exchanger fail. I was luckier than Tracy was. I first smelled an odd odor- more like Propane or LP gas. I thought it was coming from outside from a neighbor fiddling with his gas grill (we both grill thru the winters). I went back inside the house and it was stronger and stronger. My wife and I started to feel 'odd' and a tad light headed. She said to call Center Point Energy (Minneapolis area). We did and within about 20 minutes a tech arrived with a full CO sweep. He found that it buried his meter at 3,000 particles and "Red Tagged" our furnace- shutting it down. In 6 degree above 0 temps! I called several local Carrier dealers ( the one who installed our is out of business?- Anderson Heating.) Pronto came out that afternoon and said the Heat Exchanger was shot. I asked how could that be- that should last the lifetime of the furnace- 20 years. We paid over $10K for the entire HVAC system in 2006! And I only get 10 years out of it? BS. Anyway, the initial quote was $2100! I asked what a new furnace would be and got a $7k quote! Obviously we made the choice to repair it. Pronto said there was a class action lawsuit against Carrier and that they never 'recalled' these furnaces. After reading Tracy's experience above, I think we could have been there as well as the furnace continued to run until it was shut down by Center Point. The Heat Exchanger pulled out looked exactly like Tracy's too. Completely corroded beyond belief!

We have a second home in Lake City. It has a 25 year old Trane furnace that has started to nickel and dime us. And not being there all the time I don't want to risk failure and broken pipes (we keep it open year round). A part failed last week and it was only $120 to fix. But the local HVAC place said the Heat Exchanger was starting to rust. But I expect that after 25 years! We are going to replace it with a Lennox now. I won't buy another Carrier product! Maybe they should send those jobs to Mexico after all. I have no confidence in their US based products after this! 10 years on a Heat Exchanger lasting is shoddy and unethical IMO.

Hi shw001,

Can you help me out here. I am reading your posts and I have a similar situation. have a Carrier 58MVC120-F-10120 furnace that was installed in 2009. It started giving problems two days ago. Error code was 13 & 33 on the thermostat. The technician came and reset the switch and it worked for less than three hours. I showed him the new filter (filterete 10) that was put in only a month ago. He actually ran the furnace without filter for an hour and said the problem is persisting so it was not filter or airflow. Then he said it looks like the heat exchange is the problem and that there is a "bulletin" on it. He said he is extremely sorry this happened. He is suggesting I replace the furnace . It's close to being illegal that I was sold a furnace with problems after the recall/settlement. Will you share the info of your technician who fixed it for you? My email is taj133@gmail.com

Wondering whether I should take legal action against dealer & carrier also. Any one have any thoughts on that?

I have the same furnace in the 60K size and it was also installed in 2009. Carrier as well as other manufacturers have had heat exchanger failures in the past. I don't believe there is a "bulletin" on the exchanger for this furnace. If your tech has access to it he should forward it to you. I would be curious to see it myself.

If your furnace was registered within 90 days of installation then you still have a 10 year parts warranty. If it was not then it defaulted to a 5 year warranty.

Her is the troubleshooting guide for the furnace. It explains the steps for troubleshooting the 13 and 33 status codes. I am not an expert but I don't think the problem is due to a cracked heat exchanger. It sounds to me your tech does not know how to track down the problem and wants to sell you a new furnace. If you have the parts warranty then a repair by a company that knows how to fix a 58MVC furnace may be viable.

You have a 120K furnace. I suspect your furnace is over sized which may explain why you now have problems. I would also bet your duct work is not big enough to handle this furnace and the filtrete filter is restricting the air flow. That could cause the heat exchanger to overheat and fail prematurely. But that would be hard to improve if you wanted to take any legal action.

Mike_home:

Thank you for the kind response. Your suggestions made me think and I called Carrier & another authorized dealer to get second opinion.

Carrier agreed that my unit will be covered and are willing to give parts for free and will "cover all expenses for replacing the secondary heat exchanger problem". However both the first and the second dealer claim that the labor costs will be $1900- $2100" and the carrier reimbursement is only $325 and so I will have to pay $1600- $1800 out of pocket. I am in northern Virginia and not sure that makes it more expensive for labor costs.

The first dealer is willing to put in a Trane XR95 (with media air cleaner and a WiFi thermostat) for $3400 fully installed. He claims that t he chance of repaired carrier furnace going bad again as well as not having to wait for the heat exchanger delivery gives the advantage to getting a brand new Trane furnace installed. What do you think?

Both the dealer technicians had no comment about 120k size furnace. In fact, the first dealer is quoting the Trane XR95 will be the same 120k size. Why does this size make a difference? My house is a 2900 soft Colonial. What size is right for this? Will that make any difference in cost?

Thanks for your help.

I forgot to mention that the troubleshooting guide that you linked was helpful. I am not 100% sure they followed the list of steps - I am relying on the technicians expertise here. But him removing the filter and running the unit tells me that he is validating the amount of air inflow from the returns as the last step for code 13 requires. Also the pcture#5 on page 41 is the exact setup that I have in my home except for the humidifier. We use a standalone humidifier in the house. Also the media air cleaner is not a box but a thin 1 inch slit in the return where we slide in the 20×25×1 filter. Not sure if this helps but want to share this so that you know everything that I see. Thanks again for the help.

Shw001:

Since I am in NOVA, I would like to consult with your technician. Can you send me his contact information? Thanks. 3rd day with no heat. Not fun.

Find out how long Carrier thinks it should take to replace the heat exchanger and ask what their hourly warranty reimbursement rate is. Then ask them to provide you with the names of authorized Carrier dealers that will honor their warranty rate.

Our Carrier propane furnace was installed in 1996. The first time our furnace "blew" was in 2002 (6 years old), and we almost died of carbon dioxide poisoning. Our outdoor dog barked and woke me up out of a semi-coma, but I collapsed trying to get downstairs. With my son's help (separate electric heating in his room), we were able to air the house (which only increased the furnace's output of CO) and call 911. We had to be on 100% oxygen for an hour, and should have gone for further treatment since my daughter and I had long term sequalae. Looking back at the previous 4 months, we had been being poisoned with lower dose CO, with symptoms that took us to the doctor (including nausea and malaise, missing much work and school. This had been a new house, and we did not realize that CO monitors were not included automatically. Later, as an RN Advocate, I was able to assist First Alert and another group to pass a law in Michigan that every new build or remodel required a CO Detector. Our furnace repairman had blamed us (snow in the exhaust pipe -- NO!). Carrier refused any blame, but replaced the heat exchanger "at no cost" but were charged $1,000 for labor, which was not reimbursed by anyone. Four years later, in 2006, our CO2 monitors screamed. This time Carrier replaced the whole furnace, but again, we had to pay $1,000 for labor. In January, 2014, I smelled something awful outside but thought it was our neighbor's old truck. The next day, our furnace quit putting out heat. I called a different furnace servicing company, who came right out and found CO2 levels up, but just below detection for commercial monitors, and the heat exchanger defective (in fact, the PVC pipe coming out of the furnace was burned -- and could have ignited a fire in our home). When I told the repairman that this was the 3rd time in 18 years that we had gotten CO poisoning, he said, "I'm not surprised. We see this happen all the time with Carrier furnaces and propane fuel. He said they don't sell Carrier to any household using propane for that reason, and if a customer's Carrier goes bad, they do not recommend getting a replacement from Carrier, because the same problem would probably happen again. Plus, if Carrier had already replaced our furnace once (8 years before), then they would not do it again. We were now out $3600 on a new Lennox furnace in addition to the $1,000 in labor we paid on the previous two CO poisonings. Today, we just had our third annual inspection and cleaning of our Lennox furnace -- 3 years after installation every thing is PERFECT. Since I had been told by my previous furnace repair company that we caused the problem, not Carrier, I did not take action against the company (except to consult an attorney), until I had some sort of proof that this failure was not our fault. Now I see from these postings and the class action law suits, that this is a clear defect in design and manufacture, and that CARRIER CAME VERY CLOSE TO MURDERING MY FAMILY. I still have the old Carrier furnace and PVC pipe. What action can we take now to be compensated for the $5600 this has cost us, plus the 4 months of lost work time when we were being chronically poisoned. When I ask the reputable furnace repair folks about Carrier propane furnace, every single one of them says they would never sell Carrier for a home heated with propane because of the faulty heat exchangers, and the carbon monoxide poisonings they have seen. BUT, they don't report this information statistically to any place that I can tell, and I doubt if any of them would stand up in court and say that Carrier's furnace is a dangerous product. I would very much appreciate any recommendations for the next actions I can take. We deserve compensation, and this nonsense has to stop before anyone else is poisoned. Thank you. MPR

"I doubt if any of them would stand up in court and say that Carrier's furnace is a dangerous product."

I think you've answered your own question. Chalk it up to experience and move on.

Hello

I am in chicago and have the secondary heat exchanger issue on Carrier Infinity 96 (58MVB100). the furnace was installed in 2007 and shutdown with code 13 few days back. The installer ABC plumbing claims the labor cost to replace is $2400 (for 4 to 6 hours of work) which seems highly excessive.

Any thoughts on what the reasonable labor cost for replacing secondary heat exchanger and whether Carrier will cover that? thanks for your help

Thanks

You need to call carrier and give them the number off the unit. They will tell you if it is covered. They covered the part and labor on mine.

FWIW: Carrier told us that there was warranty parts and labor for our model. They gave us two referrals to dealers for repairs. We contacted both. Talks went on and on until both said they decline to do this kind of warranty work. Carrier limits the labor to four hours and that's not enough to complete the work. There were also a number of other hoops to jump for the dealer/service-provider that meant there was a fair chance they would not get reimbursed. We called Carrier back and they informed us that it was our responsibility to find a authorized dealer who would perform the service and they had no obligation to locate a technician who would agree to perform the repair. We pointed out that the legal settlement specified that parts and labor would be covered. The Carrier regional manager said: "yeah, sure ... there's a lot off things I can bill you for that aren't labor ... travel time, waiting time, service call fee ... we'll pay for four hours of labor, I don't care what the settlement agreement says, that's if you can find someone to make the repairs." We said that since no-body would make the repair, we wanted just the replacement part sent. They refused this too.

This 7 yr old thread should be for viewing only, not for any new posts. I will report this to moderator. This most recent post though if true makes a terrible statement about Carrier.

TD

Where's the king of FAD discussion when you need him? Mike home where are you? LOL.

FAD: stands for factory authorized dealer. In case you're wondering.

As the post made on Sunday points out, this FAD is a crock. See what did I tell you all those lengthy FAD discussions.

Here's some more Carrier brand fun:

You will 'ALWAYS' need a good HVAC repair man.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Mark L,

Are you trying to have a repair made under the Carrier 10 year parts and labor warranty or under the class action settlement. What part and repair do you need? Were the two dealers who declined to do the work Carrier Factory Authorized dealers?

Ray,

Let's gather the facts. If warranted I am happy to bash any HVAC contractor that is not responding to a customer request that includes Carrier FADs.

As I've stated numerous times the term 'FAD' is a myth. It doesn't mean anything and certainly not what you claim it to mean, Mike.

It's merely an agreement of a 'independent' HVAC contractor to sell $xxx,xxx amount of equipment 'per year'.

It's about selling and nothing more. Hash tag - you've been swindled.

I am not bashing HVAC contractor or Equipment Manufacturer.

I am bashing the 'POLITICS' of the arrangement designed to DECEIVE the public.

Note: if you called me to handle something of this nature ( payment of labor thru some manufacturer [any as I work on all of them])

I would charge YOU (the homeowner) up front and only when payment is received from said manufacturer would I reimburse you the amount they paid me.

So there in black and white what the term FAD is worth.

You don't have to like this, but as you know most people don't like the truth.

The Carrier FAD who installed my equipment doesn't require me to pay to for the parts and labor in advance. This makes it easier to work with him compared to an independent HVAC contractor.

We still don't know if the contractor who no bid the work Mark L. wanted was a Carrier FAD. So hold your bashing until we have all the information.

After reading the (many and somewhat unexpected) replies, I would add:

There was one question about whether this was under 10 year warranty or class action settlement. The settlement agreement, in part, extended the warranty of the affected units to 20 years for the secondary heat exchanger. That means the answer to the question is yes either way.

I spoke at length to one one of the two authorized repair companies in (what I considered to be) an unusually frank discussion. They explained the reasons they declined to make repairs:

+ 4 hours of labor permitted under the class action settlement agreement is not enough time to complete the work - in fact in many cases they needed almost twice that,

+ good chance of not receiving reimbursement for part or all of the work because the final approval from Carrier/Bryant comes after the fact of the warranty/settlement

+ several steps and expenses needed in addition to the actual repair work that is not reimbursed, i.e.... the part must be packaged and shipped to Carrier, additional forms and reports must be filed, etc...

After hearing the reasons, I could honestly find no fault with them for declining to do the work. Aside from being somehow mandatory, I wouldn't either under those circumstances.

The court order adopting the settlement agreement is accessible online. The notice of the repair or exchange credit program sent to dealers is also locatable. The settlement agreement itself is not. Because of that, it's difficult to know what the exact terms of the agreement are, i.e.... possibly it states that only four hours of labor is required to be paid and that some of the other logistical issues are by agreement. Everything anecdotal tends to suggest otherwise.

We have been in contact with the Seattle law firm that was lead in the class action. They were at first responsive and we spoke to them on several occasions. Then after they offered to contact the opposing counsel, we didn't hear anything more from them.

And to anyone who thought it inappropriate to post to an old thread, I apologize for any breech in protocol. It seemed to me appropriate because all the back-story in a single location. So if I hear anything further from the Seattle lead attorney, I'll add that if the thread is still writable.

I forgot to re-emphasize that it was Carrier themselves who provided the contact information for their dealers to arrange the repairs.

Mike, it's completely different when you have a FAD which is none other than an 'independent HVAC contractor' that has agreed to sell Carrier branded equipment.

The FAD merely represents that this 'independent HVAC contractor' sells enough equipment thru the year to afford this 'description' from Carrier (it's about selling and moving equipment). And the home in which the equipment is sold 'by the noted FAD', is ALSO 'maintained' thru said 'FAD' or 'independent HVAC contractor'.

If the FAD didn't install and maintain said equipment --- your recourse is bupkiss.

What is required to 'maintain' equipment is more or less left up to the FAD or 'independent HVAC contractor'... there is no difference between these two points --- except for the contract to sell Carrier brand equipment, and because the FAD sells all this equipment typically 100K or more per year. (The FAD isn't in business to fix equipment they DID NOT install / nor maintain.) --- guess again.

Where things get messy: the home's Carrier equipment is not maintained by installing contractor. Regardless if they are 'FAD' or not... doesn't matter. $$$ is what moves people to do something. Don't kid yourself.

If someone buys a home with said Carrier equipment installed --- which proves my point that 'FAD' means nothing --- why is this home owner having trouble finding this kind of support?

Again Mike, FAD doesn't mean anything like you think it does.

Ray,

I think the problem here is Carrier has decided they will only pay for 4 hours of labor to install a secondary heat exchanger. The question is what hourly rate does Carrier pay and is 4 hours a reasonable amount of time to do the installation.

Mark L.,

If would also be very frustrated over this situation. Perhaps you should talk to a contractor and ask how much he wants to do the installation and then get a refund as Ray describes. Since this part of a class action suit the reimbursement may be different compared to a normal parts and labor warranty claim. This may be the reason why contractors don't want to deal with this.

Mike, what Carrier says it will do and what it actually does is two different things.

The OP states here: + good chance of not receiving reimbursement for part or all of the work because the final approval from Carrier/Bryant comes after the fact of the warranty/settlement

Of which is 100% my typical experience dealing with just merely a warranty part exchange. Even if I bring the defective part to them while picking up the replacement part they still charge me for the replacement part.

Then do some hedge haw dance, foolish reasons why they need to charge me for the 'warranty exchange' part, while they do some investigation to verify the warranty... even when it's there in black and white. (via model / serial number & address of the unit in question)

You could argue I am not a FAD because I don't 'SELL' Carrier Equipment... which provides further support that:

A FAD is none other than a 'seller' of Carrier Equipment. - nothing more.

Again Mike, maybe for the last time: FAD doesn't mean what you 'THINK' it does. Not even close.

Sorry to hear you have problems getting reimbursed for your parts and labor. The Carrier FAD I use doesn't seem to have this problem. Maybe he does, but he has not told me nor has it affected any servicing of my equipment.

I highly doubt this will be the last time you bring this up.

As long as your FAD is churning out $100K a year (or more) in 'new equipment' sales, he won't. The point in which you start believing me is when your system starts having trouble and the FAD comes to your home to sell you a new system.

You know as opposed to fixing your system when it breaks. (Once the warranty period is over of your current system--- the fun and eye opening experiment begins.)

OR your Carrier FAD fails to meet the new equipment sales quota, jumps ship and becomes Trane or Lennox dealer or other dealer. (starts calling Carrier equipment garbage so they can move another brand.) --- you know things I don't do, because every brand breaks. (if you don't believe that, insert any gimmick you want here.)

Ask me how many times I've seen (any of) this happen? (I've worked for more than one HVAC company over the course of my career.)

Due to embarrassment of the situation? what will you do?

Remember Mike, I've been doing this for 24 years. This is nothing new. If I've seen it once, I've seen it a thousand times.

A mid range Carrier system costs about $10K where I live. That means a Carrier FAD would only have to sell 10 systems a year. That is very easy to accomplish where I live. So I suppose I don't have to worry about my Carrier FAD jumping ship anytime soon.

This conversation is very timely. My 10 year parts and labor warranty ended this week. Now I get the pay for everything. Let's see what happens when I need my next repair. This company does both repairs as well as sells new systems. I will keep you updated as issues occur.

Wrong Mike... the dollar amount of the FAD sales quota is determined by equipment cost (what is actually bought from Carrier supply store), not what the job is sold for.

The cost of equipment will vary depending on SEER rating, high end bells and whistles and so on.

So if a FAD only sold very high end equipment, (for Carrier this would be Infinity line or Green Speed) they could probably hit the mark with about 20 complete systems: Gas furnace / Evaporator Coil / Condenser / Fancy OEM control.

If it's only entry level systems they sell the number is probably about 45 complete systems.

Because of this FAD's typically don't make good repair companies. They are almost always under the gun to sell more equipment.

Well I suppose I was fortunate 10 years ago to find a family owned Carrier FAD who not only makes his annual sales quota but has also demonstrated good skills at making repairs.

10 years ago things were quite different.

Good skills and making repairs tend to get diluted when it comes to making new equipment sales quotas.

I thought I would briefly update that I wrote to the lead counsel for Carrier and asked for clarification on the terms of the settlement ... if his interpretation would be that this process is consistent with the language of the agreement. There was no response at all. It looks like the only way to get anyone to do anything is head back into a courtroom, so here I go ...