Thanks guys, lucy, i'm not just throwing away my meds all at once and i'm not doing it on a cut off my nose to spite my face attidude.I'm trying to save mine and my daughters life for as long as i can. We have between us had 5 horrible misdiagnosis by doctors that have left both of us disabled in differant ways and are on disability because of it. The reason i have CHF is because of diabetic meds i took for years.I had a stroke because of another medication prescribed. Had almost a 3month bad reaction to another drug even tho it was on my records not to give it to me.The doctor forgot to read that page for the reactions i had before.I did'nt have to pay for that hospitalization.Because they thought i'd sue. I was hospitalized for severe pain in the left back upper abdomen and was dehydrated,high temp,high wbc. Ihad sat at home in pain for 5 days because of my warrented distrust of doctors. Went to emergency room ,was admitted. However the ER record that showed a large kidney stone blocking the tube at the kidney was left in ER.Floor dr. could'nt come up with diagnosis, however bp had shot up So dr gives me lisenopril in hosp.Turns out as with a few other drugs i had a one in 10,000 reaction to drug. temp up, slight rash and my throat started slowly swelling.Nurses said i was having a panic attack and had lain on my pillow wrong and had a crick in neck.I lay like that over nite till i could'nt talk and was having trouble breathing. When things were finally under controll again My DD asked the dr. What about the kidney stone? Dr. said "what kidney stone? After an MRI, i was transferred to another hosp and emergency surgery done.The kidney dr. said he did'nt know how i stood the pain that long.Sometimes the pain is better than the cure.DD,s lawer wanted me to sue, said i had an ironclad case. I do not sue people because that could not make me whole and that is all i want. That is not all thats happened to me and my dd in the health care system nor anywhere near all my health problems. bu it's all i'll talk about for now anyway.Does that give you an indication of my feelings for health care. Yes i have a resonable dr now and no i would'nt tell you if he told me to forget medical care and go for the herbs.I'm not stupid either and i like this man. eric, my feelings do not reflect on you in any way. I don't understand this prolong life attitude. For what? The quality? I'm not afraid to die and i wont go looking for death either. Obviously i'm not afraid of pain either.If i take care of myself i'll probably have less of it. No i don't think dr.s care either except when it applys to them or their familys along with apollig and most of the populace. Eric again i'm not saying you are like this but this is how the med field is perceived by many. i also wish the med profession and herbalism could peacefully join together and in some countrys this is and has always been so. Just not here. but more importantly the patients and doctors and nurses need to peacefully join together. The populace needs to be educated in basic understanding of medicine and health and the med field needs to be educated on talking on a level playing field to patients. Patients are much more intelligent than most med field people think. They are in general just lazy. LOL! Eric, as far as i know you do talk to and understand your patients .but most dr,s don't. When standard billing practice is to charge the patients for all care and meds caused by doctors mistakes, What can you expect? The way i put researching, on google i was misunderstood. That is what i do. I enjoy it. but not to have to proove everything i say on line. Tomorrow i'll address the other thread. just glancing through i saw a link to an herb that might help me. Thanks much. I'll thankfully look into it. See you tomorrow. vickie

Hi John, I hope you are still following this thread. As a high blood pressure patient myself, my first concern is that you see your GP and get a basic check up and diagnosis, before you take anything at all. This is a subject too near and dear to my heart to pass by. During the check up, be sure they do a thyroid blood test, as both hyper and hypo thyroid, cause altered metabolism and high blood pressure. What you and I must avoid is a heart attack or stroke. If I have a stroke, I will be forced to watch my garden go to rack and ruin. :-( As it is now, I am as in control as possible, but I must be careful with all garden tasks, and take much longer to complete projects that in the past. IF I had gone in, and been diagnosed correctly years back, the solution would have been simple, and I could be running at normal speed. Not being able to ever again hike up a steep hill and enjoy the wildflowers is one of my biggest regrets. Back then, when things were only starting to go bad... I sounded exactly like you do in this first post. I know you fellows think going to the doctor is for girls...but this time you really need to just call and make an appointment. Not knowing does not make it go away. And not knowing but aware...causes stress...which causes long term damage to the immune system, and then the heart. With no diagnosis... and not knowing your current thyroid status, I will strongly advise against adding any so called safe supplements... the wrong guess and "bad to much worse" is the story. We get new people all the time being diagnosed either hyper or hypo... all because they added the wrong vitamins and herbs, thinking it was harmless and so basic and simple... it wouldn't hurt them. And I have to tell all of you... as a long term support person elsewhere... I am tired of picking up the damaged patients. Let's always insist on a diagnosis before a cure is prescribed. Don't take me wrong. I am a huge supporter of alternative healing, and my use of supplements and herbals was a HUGE part of my own "rare" success/ remission. But ya gotta' be aware of all the possible problems before hand. Be smart and careful. AFTER you have a diagnosis, THEN self education and a good, experienced NP will be of great value. We need to enjoy our golden years . Plus... have the opportunity to finally enjoy those tiny little plants we started, the ones that had to grow for years and years to be magnificent. ;) I'm starting to see this... and can not even start to tell you the joy ! Take care of yourself, so we can all enjoy your garden. :-D -Pam L- my rant for the year ;) Don't be skeeered... I'm really am nice, *lol*

Almost exactly a year ago, I had a similar thing - my bp, which had always been on the low side, started running 145/90 or so. The docs wanted to put me on meds, but I tried them for a week or so and had awful side effects, so I decided I was going to try lifestyle changes. I had really let myself go and gained a lot of weight over the past several years, and I was pretty much a couch potato. And I had a strong family history of heart disease working againast me as well. So I went from halfheartedly exercising once or twice a week to 4-5x/week for 45 mins or an hour at a good clip (usually, I ride the recumbent bike and I'm usually dripping sweat by 20 minutes into it). I also cut back on salt and started eating healthier food and less of it. I've lost 50 lbs in the past year and my bp has been pretty good for the last 8 months or so -- it will still occasionally spike with stress or too much caffeine so I know I don't have the problem licked, but I am at least keeping it at bay. A few things you might consider if your bp is up even though you don't seem to have changed anything (and you don't have 50 lbs to lose like I did, LOL!). Some meds have the side effect of raising bp - these include antihistamines, cold medicines/decongestants and some antidepressants. If you've started any meds since the last time your bp was normal, you might want to talk to your doc about whether that could be contributing to the problem. Also, watch what you drink -- too much caffeine can definitely raise your bp. Also I found that all the diet coke/nutrasweet I was drinking seemed to be contributing -- when I was diagnosed, I was drinking probably 8-10 cans of diet coke a day. While researching high bp, I came across a page that said that nutrasweet breaks down into a chemical very similar to epinephrine and can raise your bp. So I quit diet coke cold turkey and within two weeks, my bp was much improved. I have since had diet coke a few times at parties and such and I always notice a bp spike afterwards (not sure if it's psychological though - maybe I'm just expecting it so nerving myself up). But if you drink a lot of diet soda or eat a lot of artificial sweeteners, you might try cutting them out for a week or two to see if it helps. Also, be sure you are eating enough potassium. Potassium helps remove water from the body in the same way that sodium retains it. Many folks do not get enough potassium in their diets and that in itself can raise bp. Try eating some foods high in potassium or taking some supplements to see if it helps. Finally, try amping up your exercise if you are physiucally able to - walk faster, work harder, and sweat more. Sweating removes excess water from the body and will help to lower bp, while the cardio helps strengthen your heart and overall health of your circulatory system. Good luck - I hope you are able to find something that works for you!

I am 73 years old. Some 30 years ago, my BP started going up, and I was advised to reduce salt. I did it and monitored my BP every day, and watched it go down gradually but steadily. and it stayed down for a few years. Then it started climbing again, and I started taking anti-hypertensive medications. I now take two different such medications to keep my BP within normal range, and I watch my diet. Eliminating salt from your diet is very difficult because so many things contain salt. It's not just avoiding the salt shaker and avoiding salt in the food you cook. Most people do not know it, but milk, bread and most cold cuts and cheeses contain salt. Meats and fishes also contain some salt. The only things that contain no salt are potatoes, fruit and veggies, rice, grains, beans and unsalted nuts. You can accustom your taste buds to "like" unsalted food and, after a few weeks, you will find even lightly salted things too salty and wonder how you ever ate them. Depending on your personal situation, you might make life very complicated for the people you live with. If you decide to embark on this low sodium effort, make sure your BP elevation is not so high as to pose a serious risk, because you could do yourself harm if you do not get your BP under control promptly. Another thing to consider is that some people with high BP have a form of the disease that is particularly salt-sensitive. They respond especially well to reduced sodium intake. If your illness is not of that type, then you will probably eventually find that sodium restriction does not afford you the degree of BP control that you need, and you will have to start taking medication. Of you can try calcium supplements, but they can be constipating. The cheapest and for most people safest starting antihypertensive medication is hydochlorthiazide (HCZT), which is available as a generic and costs less than $20 per month. It's a very safe drug, and you will probably not experience any unpleasant side effects. Blood pressure control is one of the few areas where the drug industry has succeeded very well. The available treatments are highly effective and extremely safe. You will hardly know you are taking any medication, and the "silent killer" can be kept safely at bay.