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what the doctor forgot to tell me

Posted by d0ug (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 9, 13 at 14:20

On December 25, 1996, Dr. Larry Clark and his colleagues published their large, prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind Nutritional Prevention of Cancer (NPC) clinical study in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA 1996; 276:1957-1963). This landmark research effort showed that daily supplementation of diets with 200 micrograms of selenium yeast cut the cancer death rate in half. That is cancer mortality was reduced 50 percent (p=0.002). Lung cancer deaths were reduced 53% (p=0.03)

Total cancer incidence was reduced 37 percent (p=0.001) and the total carcinoma incidence was reduced 45%. In addition, the three leading sites of cancer had significantly lower incidence; lung cancer incidence was reduced 46 percent (p=0.04), prostate cancer incidence was reduced 63 percent (p=0.002) and colon cancer incidence was reduced 58 percent (p=0.03). There was a 17% reduction in all cause mortality (p=0.14), which when adjusted for sex, current smoking and age yielded a 21% reduction in deaths from all causes (p=0.07).


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

And your point is?


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

My point is that this should have been on the front page of the news paper. If 50% of the people could prevent getting cancer some one should have told us.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

Something else that the doctor forgot to mention
Diabetes
In 1957 Dr.Walter Mertz, that the deficiencies of chromium and vanadium are the primary cause of diabetes. When they are replaced with other support minerals the diabetes disappears. This was also proven by Dr. K. N. Jeejeebhoy of the University of British Columbia.
In 1991, research at the university of British Columbia Vancouver stated that the trace mineral vanadium could replace prescription insulin for treating and managing type 2 diabetes.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

You studies are very old doug, too old to trust the info in.

Far more recent studies have concluded that the studies you quote are not as they seem, but matter of fact my actually cause cancer.

Ignore all that hype about antioxidant supplements: Why daily vitamin pills can INCREASE your risk of disease

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2147771/Ignore-hype-antioxidant-supplements-Why-daily-vitamin-pills-INCREASE-risk-disease.html#ixzz2Z4qvHnJF

as for vanadium, it may be helpful, no replace, but at the same time patients run the risk of the blood thinning effect that the supplement causes. if it thins the blood too much there will be serious health consequences that can result in death.
People attempting to use this supplement need to be sure their doctors are aware of it, can monitor their clotting time to be safe.

vitamins, supplements are not the "be all to end all" replacement for prescription medications of any kind and your posts that claim the doctor didn't tell you something, are really not informative but rather promoting a book with way to old studies that are long out dated and been shown to not be as accurate or even correct as was once believed.

This happens all the time with studies. what was once believed, is found to be wrong.

You would be better served if you followed new studies on various health issues to see how new studies support older ones and old ones if they do and if not why.

Trusting one's health and life to such old studies as you keep posting about is not wise, but rather quite risky and could result in death.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

Please do not tell the people I know that have had their diabetes disappear. That the study was to old and they must still have diabetes.
There has been no deaths from correctly used supplements but thousands and thousands of deaths from correctly used prescribed drugs


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

There have been deaths from using stuff like that you just do not have access to the information or no autopsies were performed. There was a movie star who died from taking a supplement that had lead in it. Supplements are not tested for things like that. I know doctors and the FDA are not perfect but most do the best they can to protect us from stuff like that. I do not take supplements because they are drugs. My sister is stoned the same as a street user on her "supplements". They have cause hallucinations, memory problems, etc.. She would probably have serious withdrawals if she quit cold turkey.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

Most supplements are the essential minerals, vitamins, amino acids and fatty acids that the body needs. Herbal supplements are more like medicine. they are needed only to treat a problem and should be prescribed by a doctor.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

Thank you EmmaR, for posting your info before I was able to.

Deaths certainly have occurred all over the world from various supplements that people have properly used.

The FDA has actually intervened on several of them and banned their use in this county because of either safety issues with the particular supplement or dangerous levels of other things included in the supplement.

It is always buyer beware when one is dealing with something that has no regulation over it, anything can be slipped into the product or added to it.

Nothing is perfect that we take as supplements or prescription or over the counter medication. At the same time, there is an attempt to control and test medications, both prescription and over the counter and there is nothing to check the safety of these supplements that you are posting all over this forum about.

Are your claims real or just stated, we don't know that, as you are just a person in cyber space as I am. You could be making claims and they are true, maybe they are not.

The issue I have with your posts is that your claims are just that, claims, and the documentation to prove the claims you are making does not exists, and attempting to take some kind of supplement to prevent or cure diabetes, vs the traditional method is a very risky thing to do, potentially fatal at worst.

Attempting to treat cancer patients with what many, including myself believe is "hocus pocus", instead of the traditional and proven treatments, is scary to say the least, and fatal at worst. Far to many people have actually gone you claimed route, including Steve Jobs, and when they finally realized the mistake they made, it was too late, as Steve Jobs, himself learned.

When someone can prove with repeated double blind studies that supplements actually do as you claim, and there is some method that is done in the US to properly test these supplements for safety, then and only then should people consider the supplementation that you espouse in your posts.

But again i will say, your stated studies are way too old to be considered valid.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

Supplements, herbs, vitamins, call them anything you want but they are the same thing. They are drugs. My sister loves her echinancea tea and believes it stops a cold when she drinks it. It causes hallucinations and is being used to treat aids. I would certainly put that in the drug category. Another sister was shocked when I told her it was an hallucinogenic, she said, "Oh my I have a friend that drinks the tea and she is hallucinating."

You are welcome littleone. It is nice to find someone who speaks out about this besides me.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

Here is your golden standard double blind study just a very, very short list.

Baycol: 31 deaths by Bayer predicted that the loss of Baycol would reduce its revenues this year by as much as $572 million.
Colchicine: The analysis found 169 deaths associated with the use of oral colchicine. Of the 169 deaths, 117 were not reported as overdoses.
Hismanal: was linked to death, cardiovascular problems, anaphylaxis and drug interactions.
Prozac: 421 deaths from FDA report.
Celebrex: Increases the risk of heart attack and stroke.
Lotronex: More than 70 adverse reaction reports, 10 of which required immediate surgery and 5 that has resulted in death.
Posicor: caused multiple injuries and 24 deaths
Raxar: is linked to 13 reported deaths.
Seldane: statistics citing numbers of injuries or deaths. They made $440 million.
Tysabri: 102 cases of the infection were confirmed in Tysabri patients, including 21 deaths.
Vioxx: Caused 27,785 Deaths and many more injured
These Drugs still on the market
Acetaminophen:
• 56,000 emergency department visits (1993�"1999),
• 26,000 hospitalizations (1990�"1999),
• 458 deaths (1996�"1998) - See more at: http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30#sthash.MJTnyvld.dpuf

(NSAIDS) "Each year, use of NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) accounts for an estimated 7,600 deaths and 76,000 hospitalizations in the United States." (NSAIDS) include aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, diclofenac, ketoprofen, and tiaprofenic acid.
http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30#sthash.MJTnyvld.dpuf
All these drugs have had double blind study and where approved by the FDA
How important is a double blind study if it kills and injures thousands of people

Doctors’ are the third leading cause of death. Published in the Journal of American medical Association
http://www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm
US Infant Mortality Rate Higher Than Other Wealthy Countries
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-steven-friedman/infant-mortality-rate-united-states_b_1620664.html
Hospital infection deaths caused by ignorance and neglect, survey finds 30,000 deaths.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/12/AR2010071204893.html
Here is your medical [drug company] giving AIDs to children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spnEaO3yumk
Making money on the backs of the sick or creating more illness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d9Etb4s98V0

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Quoted: Albert Einstein
The medical system has failed and doing something over and over again looking for a different result is sign insanity.
Maybe it is time for an alternative approach to health.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

littleonefb
I guess you never read the web site that you posted.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2147771/Ignore-hype-antioxidant-supplements-Why-daily-vitamin-pills-INCREASE-risk-disease.html#ixzz2Z4qvHnJF
If you would have read it you would find out that it agreed with the study on selenium I posted


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

OH, Doug, I read it quite well and it does not support or agree with the study you posted.

In fact the link I posted states the following, amongst other things about selenium but it doesn't say what you posted.

"Goggins says the key to selenium supplementation is not taking too much, though.
He recommends women take 50-60 mcg a day to raise levels to the ideal range, and men 100 mcg.
However, it is difficult to buy selenium pills at such low levels, so the authors suggest finding a good brand (e.g. Solgar Yeast Bound Selenium, 100 mcg) and breaking the tablet in half, or taking one tablet every other day."

Now you said the following

"his landmark research effort showed that daily supplementation of diets with 200 micrograms of selenium yeast cut the cancer death rate in half."

Now, who didn't read a link?

I'm not going to play tit for tat with you. You can post all you want till the cows come home. There is no regulation of any kind in supplements, especially ones that are obtained from out of the country, manufactured out of the country and brought into this country.

There is a place for some alternative treatments, but those that you are advocating, well, they are suspect to say the least.

No one, especially me ever said that our health care system is the best. As a matter of fact, I support a universal health care system, not what we have now or even the Affordable Health care act, that was passed. but that is far better than what we have had.

Nothing is perfect and no matter how hard one tries, there will always be such things as infections in hospitals, deaths from medications and it is an unfortunate fact.

There is no possible way to test any medication for 100% safety. That can only come once it has passed the testing that the FDA requires and then the medication is widely used by the general public and done so over quite a number of years.

Then and only then, will some possible side effects start to show up that could not be found unless there is mass use of the particular drug.

That isn't defense of big pharma, that is a fact. When testing is done on a limited number of people, for example 5000 people, the side effects of that drug can appear to be very safe, or as safe as can be determined.

When the same drug is then widely used and more than 150,000 people use that same drug, then various side effects can start to show up that where not seen before.

and yes, sometimes, factual information is kept from the FDA until it is too late and people have died that would have not died if big pharma told the truth.

There is also something called the "risk benefit ratio" that is used in prescribing medications and how doctors and their patients make decisions on when to use a particular medication and when not to.

Unless you are in a position to have to decide something based on that "risk/benefit ratio", you don't know what you might or might not do, decide to use or not use and whether you are willing to take the risk that the medication that might save you life, could give you a life to live and function in could also kill you, that procedure, treatment, test could be that last you ever have or it could give you a new lease on life.

Believe me, from personal experience, those are very, very hard decisions to make, scary ones to make, and yet I've made them more than once, and I'm here posting on this thread because of those choices. On the other hand, there are people that made the same choice I did, and they are not alive to talk about it.

Your idea of supplements, vitamins, minerals etc, they come from all over, have been found to be contaminated with lead, and various other contaminants that have the potential if not the outright ability to kill those that take that brand; and that is because there is nothing, no regulations, no US agency that is responsible for making sure these imports are safe. They just come into this country and are popped right on the shelf of stores to sell and it's the buyer beware of what you are taking and what is contained or not contained in the bottle.

There have been many cases where the dose was way to high or way lower than the bottle claimed. Any why? because no one checks them, no one regulates them, no one is responsible for them.

make all the claims you want, it still doesn't change the facts, dosing with vitamins, minerals, various supplements have overall been proven to be a waste of money, not safe and the few that have a benefit or might have a benefit are being sold in way to high doses to be safe.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

Here are the facts, the study I sighted was a double blind against a placebo written up in JAMA a very high rated medical journal. The people who done the study where Larry C. Clark, MPH, PhD; Gerald F. Combs, PhD; Bruce W. Turnbull, PhD; Elizabeth H. Slate, PhD; Dan K. Chalker, MD; James Chow, MD; Loretta S. Davis, MD; Renee A. Glover, MD; Gloria F. Graham, MD; Earl G. Gross, MD; Arnon Krongrad, MD; Jack L. Lesher, MD; H. Kim Park, MD; Beverly B. Sanders, MD; Cameron L. Smith, MD; J. Richard Taylor, MD
The news paper article you quote was written by Aidan Goggins his only accreditation is he is a pharmacist and a master in nutrition medicine with a book to flog.
Who would you believe after telling me you need a double blind study before you will accept anything you can’t have it both ways.
Both of us want to see people healthy and the only difference is the way we look at the issue.
Allopathic medicine is what is practiced in all hospitals and most doctors. There approach is based on symptoms and relieving symptoms. That is like throwing a blanket over a problem to make it go away. . Big Pharmaceutical Companies. The story of allopathic medicine can be found at
http://educate-yourself.org/fc/drugstory.shtml

Naturopathic medicine is caused based holistic healing. Medicine finds the reason for the problem and treats it. When the problem is treated the symptoms go away. For example
Scurvy: vitamin C, beriberi: vitamin B1, rickets: vitamin D and Pellagra: vitamin B3 these are but a few vitamin deficiency ailments.

There is also, many other fields of medicine.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

My father had past away a few years ago. The last few years of his life, his mental and memory capacity was much diminished. The doctors kept saying Alzheimer’s although they where not exactly sure and they could do nothing to help.
After my father had past away, the autopsy showed that he did not have Alzheimer’s and I felt very sad that the doctors did not check about Korsakoff’s syndrome. Korsakoff’s gives the same symptoms but is curable. 65% of Alzheimer’s is misdiagnosed. The only way to tell is with an autopsy, if it is Alzheimer’s. Korsakoff’s syndrome is a vitamin deficiency. Alzheimer’s is the 5th leading cause of death in the United States


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

My husband had AZ and the doctor had a test run and he confirmed it is AZ, part of his brain is atrophied.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

I am very sorry to here about your husband and I know what you went through.
Atrophy can be caused by starvation. The brain is composed of 75% cholesterol and if you starve it, from cholesterol, you will get atrophy. Your body makes 10% of your needs and the other needs to come from what you eat.
The FDA put out a warning on statins.
Cognitive (brain-related) impairment, such as memory loss, forgetfulness and confusion, has been reported by some statin users.
People being treated with statins may have an increased risk of raised blood sugar levels and the development of Type 2 diabetes.
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm293330.htm


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

My husband took no meds and he certainly wasn't starved. I would like to ask you why you aren't filthy rich from all of your knowledge. How many people have you cured people with your knowledge. Regarding these cures, my reply has always been if they cured, there would not be anyone with diabetes or AZ.


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RE: what the doctor forgot to tell me

The cure word is a medical term that can't be used unless it is a doctor using drugs.
I do know many people who are non diabetics now.
I do not make my living in medicine but I do a lot of research.
Mainly after the medical system killing my father


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