You know Bob, the things that stick out in my mind is I have to give you so much credit for how well you were doing and how hard you were trying with him. We kids never usually see our parents clearly and it is always easier when they too become parents of teens and so on later in their lives. Somewhere down the line he would have come full circle, or not, the choice would have been his. He probably just needed to have that one thing mentioned that would just 'click' right with him. We do though as kids need to come to realise that parents are not infalible as all humans are not. We are just people living, learning and trying to do our best. It sounds like you have done a fine job of trying to pull it all together over the years and were a caring and patient person and father to your kids. They learn that by you being supportive and caring towards them, whether you are present in the household or not, that you do care about them. You know all of this but it bears repeating. It's not the quantity of time that you spend with them but the quality. The minutes do count but not so much as the moments. Just staying involved in their life and what they are doing and what matters to them, should matter to them when they get old enough to know what really counts and they have sorted out 'Life 101' better. Bottom line is everyone just wants to feel loved for who they are and where they are at in life. Love, acceptance, unconditional love. Could you son possibly still have been on that journey of asking himself, who am I, what am I, where am I going and where does this all fit in with my life so far. It takes a great maturity to arrive at looking at your parents clearly enough to see that they faced the same set of circumstances that we all did. We can all make mistakes, miscalculations. We can all forgive, forget and move on too. We have to deal with what life is handing us and try to make the best of it with what we have to work with or go out and make it a better one. We create what our life will be. A wise man once told me that if we are forgiven, how can we not forgive also. Give yourself time to forgive yourself and let the pain go from the distance that was created by your son. It may take you some time, but give yourself the permission to fprgive all and move beyond that. Your son just wasn't up to that level of understanding yet. Given time and patience most likely he would have gotten there. All the best my friend, Lucy

I'm so sorry. I know it must be so hard for you to have lost such a wonderful girl and it's even more hard for you to see your son in so much pain. No matter what the reason, it would hurt you to see him hurt. Both of you have lost future dreams and that hurts. It is very normal to feel the way you are feeling. When my daughter was killed, it took her boyfriend who was only 18 at the time, four years to date another girl seriously. He compared them all to Christin and they didn't measure up. He did meet someone that he fell in love with and married this summer. You son will do the same in time, and he will never forget this girl that he lost and you won't either. Keep her in your heart forever. It's all hard to understand and I'm so sorry for what you two are going through. Please continue to come here. ((((((((((((((((Mandi)))))))))))))))))))) Lu

popi We are Christians and wanted a Christian education for our kids. What I have found out though is that many of kids at this school put themselves on a "I am a better Christian than you are" pedestal and judge very harshly students that don't follow their lead. My son is more outside of the box. He skateboards instead of playing football. Listens to harder rock "Christian" music than most and is does more his own thing. We are far from wealthy and don't run with they parents who are and who have seats on the board or contribute extra money to the school. My older daughter had the same experience and she left the school. She told me that the kids that got up on stage and professed their love for and commitment to Christ were the meanest, most two faced and hardest partying kids at the school. She never fit in either. I have a concern of being able to get him to school when the weather is bad since I will have to be driving SD10 to school if he goes else where. The drive to the school that we have chosen, should he go, is about 20 minutes without snow or ice. That is something that we have to discuss. My DH says that he will find those types of people at the other school and not like it there either. I agree that he will find those types of people there but since the school is much larger he probably won't be with them the entire day nor will the mold that he is expected to fit into be so strict. I want to meet with the principal and see what they have available to address his learning disabilities. I need to speak to his special ed teacher at his current school and get her honest opinion about it. I emailed her today but have not heard back from her. I will also talk to the super at his current school and let him know why my son would be leaving and that he should take a hard look at what is being learned there about being a Christian as apposed to what is being taught. I think it's a shame.

Sweeby, I tend to agree with you. I truely believe my SS is a sociopath. I have researched it extensively and he is dead on. Even to the point that we got puppies for each of the kids last year and he would feed and water his, walk it when the others walked theirs but he never loved on it like the others did. Never smiled at it when it was happy to see him. He was detached. Honestly, that was when I first started to notice he was a little different. He can turn it on, when he knows others are watching, or even mimic others "normal" behavior, he is just different. His puppy didn't grow and learn like the others because he didn't take time with her. When he went to his mothers and said he wasn't coming back, I was at least relieved that I could find the puppy someone to love her. To this day he has never even asked where she is! Was my husband a great father? No. He thought he was, he tried so hard. He stayed in a loveless marriage for 20 years convinced (by his wife and her family) that if he left he would never see his sons again. That is a ridiclous farce! But my husband, while the kindest soul I have ever know, isn't the most intellectual man. He was on his own at age 15 and all he wanted was a family. He endured SO MUCH to keep his family together and while he THOUGHT he was doing the right thing, it was in the end, the absolute worst thing he could have done. Children who grow up in a battle zone, watching their mother belittle their father over and over, watching their mother lose her temper and hit herself in the head, having one affair after another, that is bound to produce some twisted individuals. My husband tried to keep them busy, Boy Scouts, football, basketball, bowling leagues, track...he was at every practice, every game, helped coach..anything he could to keep them busy and focused on something positive. Yes, he feels gulity. I don't bring it up anymore, he talks when he needs to talk and I listen. Last night for the first time, he said, "I should have taken my boys and left when they were little. They would be different now." I know that is true and I know that is why he puts up with so much, he is largely to blame. No, he wasn't a mean father, but he was an ignorant one, either way, his boys are damaged. I feel bad for my SSs and I am very maternal by nature, so I have tried so hard to take care of them. I wonder if maybe there isn't some jealousy there by the 18 year old because he didn't grow up with that kind of mother. His mother is SO selfish! I have never seen anything like it! Well, my SSs....I have loved on him, he and I had one on one "date nights" and days of shopping and lunches like I do with the others, talked about everything under the sun. I just think it is too late... When his behavior affects my children I have to say no more. Some have asked about my 20 year old SS that I have only met twice. Right in the middle of the split between his parents, he "came out". He was 17. He really , really needed understanding and nurturing. He didn't get it. His mother was vested in her new relationship and his father was licking his own wounds. Both adults were selfish and not there for their son in a very, very crucial time in his life. He is still angry and hurt. While my husband now sees his mistake and wants to be there for his son, he is now going to have to wait until his son is ready to forgive him. Which is why my husband calls him very Sunday and leaves him a message, without fail. He tried to live with his mother and her boyfriend and that didn't work out because the boyfriend was calling him a *ag every day! I wish he would give us a chance but he just isn't ready... I saw on FB recently that he was saying he needed money for groceries. I told my husband (who doesn't realy do the FB thing)and he sent him money for groceries. It's a start... Need to add, the SSs do NOT get along! It's just a big mess! : ( I have to leave it all to my husband. He created this situation, regardless of his intentions, it is time for him to step up and take care of his own. I am just going to take care of mine and see in time what develops.