This sounds horrible. And probably there isn't much you can do about it. However, you might google "Gentle Discipline" and learn more about this method. If there's a forum, you might present some of these problems. If there is an 'ask the expert portion" maybe you could ask also. But I doubt your daughter will be very receptive to much imput from you. I remember being in a bookstore at Xmas and seeing 2 4 years old boys running amok among stacks of books. Their mother was weakly saying, "Darling, please, darling, please". Finally, an employee told the kids to knock it off, and the mother leaned closer to the employee confidentially: "I'm so glad you said something." I also have a friend who is deaf and got a divorce and whose mother thinks her granddaughter is the poorest most put upon little thing on earth. Poor steffi, from a broken family. Poor Steffi, who mother is deaf. Poor Steffi sounds just like your granddaughter, and I have to say, now that Poor Steffi is 8, things are not going so well for her. She's a bully at school, has few friends, is disliked by teachers, in therapy, and a month or so ago this friend actually had to call the police on her daughter. (Friend lives out of state, so I don't know the whole story yet). Friends had to cut off bad-influence grandma who would insist Steffi be allowed to do whatever she wanted even as Mom was saying no. Grandma would actually fight with mom over it infront of poor Steffi. As re your granddaughter, I'd stick to things that actually affect your directly: such as the food being thrown. No one should have to endure getting food thrown at them. You may try talking to your daughter again, or maybe choose not to share dinners until Steffi is old enough not to throw food (how old would that be, btw) Also, you may want all your visiting to be done in house when your daughter is available to do the disciplining. Maybe stop taking your granddaughter on trips to the mall until your granddaughter can be relied upon to behave. My nephew did something once similar to your mall experience. He stubbed his toe (abt age 7) and fell on the ground clutching it and howling, all out of proportion to the pain even the most severe toe stubbing could cause. I stood and watched him and once when he peered out at me, I said: "What are you doing!" He said, "My toe hurts, my toe hurts." I said: "Why are you crying so much." He said, "I always cry a lot." Me: "Really? Why?" Him: "Because I'm very sensitive." Me: "Well, I'm sensitive too and that noise hurts by ears. Why don't you go in the bedroom and do it." He looked shocked. "I'm done now." Me: "Just the same, you must have worn yourself out yelling like that. You need to lay down for a half hour and get collected." I can't say we are very close, but he's not close with hardly anyone. (At age 9 he fell on the ground because his grandmother wouldn't give him ice cream at 10 am. I walked up on him thrashing about on the floor and my MIL hoovering anxiously trying to get him to stop. She couldn't even get him an ice cream because the store was closed. As I walked up to them, I heard him howl: "Who do you think you are talking to?" This coming from a 9 year old to his 65 year old grandmother. Me, I would have answered, "I'm talking to a 9 year old who's about to spend his day writing sentences. Why? Who do you think YOU'RE talking to?" But I figured it wasn't my problem, or my drama. It was between grandma, grandson and ultimately mom and dad. The boy is now eleven and not doing well, has school social workrs and therapists and may have to go to a special school for emotionally troubled kids. It's too bad. I feel for you, but I don't think there's much you can do but protect yourself furtively, and hope when the inevitable happens, it isn't too bad.

Well, there is a lot going on here. First of all, you guys should not have been so hlepful and neither should have the boyfriend's parents. I was 18 and I moved in with my boyfriend, got pregnant and we had a son. It's 4 years later and we struggled and had our families support but they did NOT hold our hands and help us through everything. It was hard and yes we got frustrated but you know what? I'm thankful we had to fall on our face and grow up. We did it fast and it was because we had to not because someone else was saying we needed to and doing everything for us. The only way I think your daughter and her boyfriend will ever grow up and appreciate what you're saying and have done is if they are forced out on their own. As for your grandchild, I'm sorry you don't get to see her. There is some resentment going on that is forcing your daughter to keep her from you. I guess all you can do is try to call your daughter and apologize and be there for her. I know you're probably thinking, "Apologize? For what?" well, I'm pretty sure that you said or did something that you're daughter did not like. It may not be something you think was wrong but it upset her. Like did you maybe put her boyfriend down? Maybe he's not perfect and what you wanted for your daughter but that's not your choice. It's her life and her choice. She's now an adult and a mother and sometimes that's hard for a parent to realize. It took my Mom about a year and a half to break down and cry and tell me I was doing a great job and to apologize for doubting me, my fiance' and questioning his intentions and everything. Just try apologizing and approaching the situation differently. Be there but don't help too much. Don't let them rely on you for money or babysitting or stuff like that. They may get angry because you said no, but they'll learn and someday down the road, they'll wake up and realize you weren't so bad after all. Good luck... ~Leslie~

Hello I'm sorry if I have offended some people with my comments. I don't think I explained my situation very well and, as we are all prone to doing when we are feeling down, I focused too much on the negative in my posts. I hope that in not having put my best foot forward I haven't messed up my chances of being able to use the forum to offer and receive support in the future. I certainly didn't want to upset anyone. Hoping to clear up a few issues of doubt (my fault for not making it clearer): 1. I have no problem at all with my partner calling his kids once a day. Twice a day. Whenever he needs to. I should have made it clear that my gripe was with my partner usually calling his ex-wife when his kids aren't even there. This is his right, as their father, to ask about their well-being, but I happen to know that the conversations are rarely limited to his kids. I simply ask him not to hide these calls from me because it creates suspicion where there doesn't need to be any. when he calls her in fron tof me i leave the room. i respect his privacy. But there is no place for hiding stuff in a partnership. he does not HAVE to hide calls to his kids from me in any way shape or form. I'm sorry if my post gave that impression. 2. With regard to the financial situation. My ex gives me as much as he can, which is enough for us to get by on if I work. I have to work to raise my kids. I have always worked. I'm not looking for a free lunch from anyone. My problem with my partner is that his ex has refused to look for work for two years now. We have been struggling because the money he has left after giving 70% of his salary (his choice, not court imposed) to his ex does not cover what we spend and we do NOT live a life of luxury. I appreciate that he has to pay for his kids and compensate his ex for her loss of income due to their divorce. But it's tough when you are both working so hard to make ends meet (actually not BOTH...three of us..because my ex also works hard) and your partner's ex can run up three hundred dollar phone bills in a month calling her latest guy...and you know you will end up footing the bill. This has happened. Things LIKE this happen too much. 3. His kids visiting. I will admit that I did not have a very clear concept of what this would be like for my kids. There are a lot more issues here than I went into in my posts. One of my children has Aspergers and we try to keep to a fairly a tight routine for him. This is not respected when his kids come. My kids are supposed to be in bed by nine but often, he is still here with his kids at this time and I end up having to virtually ask him to leave, which is really ugly. But when you are trying to hold lifer together as a working mom with four kids, things like getting them to bed on time are really important. Having two kids running around at this time makes things stressful when they don't need to be. Rules are not respected sometimes because tends to be soft on his kids. I understand this, when he has limited time with them adn doesn't want to be the bad guy. but it means that my kids get very confused about what is right and wrong. I take a back step and allow him to discipline his own kids but it's hard for mine to understand that there is one rule for them and one rule for my partner's kids. he feels his kids should have complete run of the house when they come. i say there are boundaries that should be respected, which are ONLY the same boundaries that I impose on my own kids, such as them not being allowed to take food without asking, such as the younger kids not being allowed into their older sister's bedroom without permission. To him, this is me not making them feel at home. 4. Vacations. I appreciate that my attitude seems selfish. OK, I admit that it is. I have tried to suggest us going on separate vacations. Last year we did that. We went away with his kids for six days to the beach while mine were with their dad at the beach. Then, when I wanted usto go away with my kids to the beach later in the Summer, he insisted we take his kids too because by taking mine away with us to stay with my friends who had invited us to their rented beach house for a week, my kids were then getting more days at the beach than kis because they had already had six days at the beach with their Dad. Things like that leave you with a bad taste in your mouth because everything gets painted like a competition. my kids are always painted as the lucky ones. I can't take them on a day trip without him insisting we do the same with his kids the following week. He is NOT expected to pay for these trips, by the way. I have familyin England. My whole family. I take my kids there once a year. I can't afford to take them all. I usually have to take one at a time for financial reasons but it is important for them to see their grandparents. What we keep on getting is that it's HIS kids' turn next. I find this really hard. I pay for these trips. Actually, the last few years my family have helped me out and paid for these trips. I would find it so hard to justify to my kids that I would take his kids to stay with THEIR grandparents, leaving them behind. OK, so his kids miss out on a plane trip. But they have all four grandparents down the street. We all have blessings and crosses to bear. They're not always the same. And yes, I am sadly doing my children a disservice a lot of the time because I am trying so hard to make this work and to make him happy and make his kids happy. I think maybe that is why I feel so resentful at times. And I'm glad that some of you have pointed that out to me. xx

I'll put my trust in Jewel's assessment, for what it's worth. She's known both parties and seen the fall out every year. She's seen the vindictive behavior of the XH and how her friend has had to pay thru the nose to deal with his childishness. And through her job, she's privy to insider information that she has wisely NOT passed along to her friend, even though it would give that friend some sense of relief and satisfaction and possibly even legal grounds for some other action. Her friend isn't the one under investigation by her office, the MAN is and he isn't cooperating, to the detriment of his child. That says a lot to me and apparently, to the people in her office, too, since they're going to be taking some kind of action. It's all fine and good to play devil's advocate, but it's kind of silly to argue that SHE doesn't know when obviously, she's immersed in it. I think it's safe to say that Jewel is a person capable of identifying a sleazeball (my word, not hers) without too much trouble. And I always have to laugh- no matter what the post is about, some people just have to be the nay-sayer, even when they have less information to go on than the OP, who made the original statement. It's getting to where no one will even dare to say "wow, the sky is blue here today!" because someone else will come in and argue it with them. Sheesh.