Deadbeat Grandparents?
danalynne
21 years ago
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adjones826
21 years agomariend
21 years agoRelated Discussions
What is fair?
Comments (11)HI again, Thanks all, for taking the time to respond. I do appreciate it. India won't happen for years, and let's face it, I'm not going to forego yearly vacations in order to save for that trip...we all work too hard to be saving for a big trip like that years down the road. And, it does need to be years down the road as he turns 6 in June (same as his 'sister' in India) and we just 'adopted' her last year. I would like them to have established more of a rapoort, letter writing, ability to communicate and understand each other...she doesn't yet speak English but will apparently learn it now in school...before we go there. She also lives in a very dangerous area at present. I'm not going there alone with a small child in tow....I may not even go alone with pre-teen in tow...I have travelled with friends and still found myself in precarious and scary situations in Asia and Africa...India is no different....and now- this is back to my original query :) If my fiancee can't be guilt-free enough to go to Disney without his 2 girls, he won't be getting to India with us either! And unlike me, he has not travelled the world, he is very envious of my travels and hopes that we get to travel together to some of these places.....but we need to sort this stuff out. So, will we also not be going to India without the girls??? And yes, India is maybe my son's #1 choice right now, but don't take that out of context and turn Disney into 'my' want.....remember in my first post, I did say that HE (my son) initiated conversation, he has been asking about it and having me 'google' pictures and videos and talking about it with his cousins. Yes, I would like to give him the opportunity- but is it for me?! Nope....I wish another family was going to Disney and wanted to take him along, I would only be too happy to avoid the commercialism and line-ups and hoopla....the only thing I would miss of course is making the memories with him, seeing his expressions, etc., can't miss that! Really, I would love to lie on the beach for a week- that would be MY choice...my job is cut-throat and so is my grad program...I would rather chill out. yes, guilt is an issue with my fiancee, and he will need to work on it. I'm hoping the counseling sessions and getting 'permission' to be somewhat of a disciplinarian in order to help his 12 yr old daughter by having some structure, rules, consistency, will help with this... plus the course he starts in a few weeks on parenting kids with behaviour challenges. I think he has worked so many hours that he doesn't 'trust' in his ability to parent in these difficult situations, his daughter's outbursts are scary and would probably scare most veteran parents. We will just have t work through this together. As to the money issue, it's not an issue as of now. Yes, I said I pay more than 50%, it's only slightly more than, AND, it's for our shared expenses only...his 'personal' expenses are not included in that (ie. child support, car payment, credit card, etc.). We each take care of our own personal expenses and share the joint/household expenses. So, I don't have to pay for a "lazy BM to sit at home" and take our money...he does. Nor would I, ever. And, where I live (Canada), I would never have to unless I became a legal guardian in a formal way, and/or he stayed at home instead of working 'by choice', and he would not be allowed to just avoid child support by being a 'kept man' or something...in that instance I would have to pay. That will never happen. As I said he is extremely hard-working. He works a full time job plus another more casual job to make the money he needs to, to pay for he and his girls' way. I hate emails...so much miscommunication :P I don't begrudge his time with his girls alone AT ALL! I encouraged and supported the camp idea (he and girls-alone a week each summer) that started last year and will continue...my son can't go for 2 more years, so I won't go either (they want to employ me as well - so my son could then go free as well) but until then, its them alone...fine - it's all good. I encouraged and am absolutely FINE with him going to the cottage with his girls each summer without us - I hope they go and 'bond more' this summer too! I know that a dad and daughter's relationship is absolutely critical to their normal development and socialization...that it will form how they see themselves in the eyes of the opposite sex, how they will learn to teach boys to treat them in a relationship, etc. He has to do everything to ensure that they are not left with anything else except of a feeling of love, respect, closeness, trust, etc., with him - I get that this is priority #1....although somewhat challenging given the limited time they have together, the behaviour issues that need to be overcome, and the undermining at our attempts to instill normalcy, routines, standard expectations of respect for self, adults and each other, and each persons' responsibility within their home, by the lack of any of this at the BM's home, or even at the grandparents. He is not comfortable with the idea of travel without them, but we can not take them everywhere everytime, so does he never come with us then? Do we travel/vacation as single parents or all together or nothing? This is my question. If the expensive camp, cottaging, girls going to Disney, etc is 'ok' without us, why is nothing we do without them 'ok'? The BM has had boyfriends, just no one serious enough to have stuck around thus far...but when that happens and they travel together as the 'family' that they will then be, is that what will make the difference? Surely if they get to vacation together, we (fiancee, son and I) can vacation together? But why would this make a difference? So, I need to wait for her to pick a boyfriedn that travels with them, or a stepdad for them? I'm now confusing myself! :P Ah..."special one on one time that my son gets with my fiancee"....that's half the issue here, and part of the reason why I would like him to come along! When someone works 60-70 hrs per week, and then fits in time alone with his girls, and is painting their home, fixing that home...all away from us...(girls and BM, and grandparents) live 40 minutes away near his full time job so to maximize time with his girls he will go from work to his parents where girls are often living, and stay in order to try and ensure healthy eating, help with homework, try to establish routines (videogames, bed time, etc)....as we live 40 mins away, my job (and whole extended family, etc) is 40 minutes in the opposite direction, so we aren't about to move any further away from my work and childcare...we are right in the middle and this is the best we can make it for the time being. So, with all this going on, he isn't at home with us much at all! We might get one hour before my son's bedtime, if we see him at all, sometimes for a couple of days at a time (if he is working night shift he will get off work, get his girls breakfast, take them to school, go to sleep at his parents, get them from school, get dinner, do homework with them, and then go back to work), yes, sometimes we might get a whole day with him on a weekend, but its rare... this is why I would like him to come on vacation. My son loves him to bits, is always asking where he is, if he's coming home, asks to sleep holding his PJ shirt :), but will whisper things in my ear that he is too shy to ask him himself, he never asks him to read to him or to play with him...because despite the years passing, he doesn't yet see him as another parent since there hasn't been the time spent to establish that type of routine with him. I thought we could at least vacation together...and goodness knows, working as hard as he does, he deserves to get away. And it is 'guilt', and not what he 'wants'....he even started toying with the idea of not coming for the whole week, but kind of 'sneaking down for a few days at the end, and flying back home with us". He doesn't really want us going alone, he will also worry about us, I know him. But he worries about what other people will say, think, and of course what would be told to his girls and if they would 'snub him' like they did post the 'engagement trip' in the fall, and only forgive him after copious presents were bought, restaurants attended, etc... He doesn't want the BM calling him a bad father or his parents judging him... The BM, although not 'enjoying' or optimizing her opportunities with fulltime motherhood from my perspective, has this as her sole identity (I think). She does not seem to wish to have to work and sees the 'full amount' of child support that she gets as her 'income'. In Canada, if we have the children even 40%, he could apply for a small 'break' from the set amount (according to his income) and have to pay less. She will never allow for this. Plus, its only a 'small decrease' in the amount. So, he would still be paying alot, therefore have to work alot, and then who is looking after the kids who would then be with us 50%? I also work long hours and have my mom and a daycare lady helping me. We'd be paying more money in childcare and travel/commute for others to care for the kids! Plus, his girls do not want to change from their present school/friends, and we can't manage that commute in opposite directions for work, school, etc. I would have to be a stay at home mom -oh wait! I can't afford to, and, his kids need him, not me.... Yes, the BM is happy to leave the girls with his parents alot, but that doesn't affect the amount of 'custody' or child support- so why wouldn't she collect max dollars and have other people care for her kids, that's her M.O. The garndparents will never say 'boo' to her, they would be afraid she would deny them access, but its a joke, she needs them too much so she can have her free time. By the law, she could technically choose to send them away to boarding school and collect full child support even though she wouldn't be 'caring' for them for their day-to-day needs. So, getting 50% custody/access doesn't help us unless we all lived nearby AND she agreed to less child support so he would be around to parent his kids. The grand parents live 5 mins from the BM and they take the girls to school, pick them up, etc., it doesn't disrupt their school, friends visits, and their choices (pizza, ribs and videogames!), like coming to our home does. If the girls had a choice, the 12 yr old would choose to live with her enabling grandparents (the no rules, coca cola and pizza and chocolates for dinner everyday-house), and the 8 yr old would still pick her BM at this point. Anyway...still wondering if anyone is in a 'similar' family footprint, and could comment on the vacation strategies/options/etc. After all, we can't 'fix' the BM, might not be able to change much in 12 yr old' s behaviours if BM and grandparents don't get on board with the strategies suggested for kids with these challenges...and the fact that he will always be paying (and therefore working!) this much is not going to change either. So, while I appreciate the 'heads up' re: red flags...I'm aware and trying to work on things I can control, the rest I just ensure that I'm making an informed choice on the matters...I'm aware...not ignorant of facts, not naive...smarter than him (haha - aren't all women?! lol), and I am sure to keep my concern for my son at the forefront of all decisions I make. My fiancee is a really good, caring, trustworthy, loyal and nurturing man....he is good with my son, he is a good role model (other than the guilt-ridden and confidence undermined by the 'system' keeping him working like a dog to pay for the kids and try to parent them alone with a fraction of the time or support that many other parents might get)... good people deserve chances. We all have our 'baggage', and just because his ex is a piece of work, he made a bad choice in her as a younger/stupider man, and his parents are oldschool european passive/enabling spoilers of kids who think tons of videogame time brings great hand-eye coordination :P...just because of this, he shouldn't be written off. He loves me and deserves me -lol :) , and I would be hard-pressed to find a guy as nice as him in the world, who loves me as he does, and who shares my interests. So, here I am...giving it a shot... hoping to go on a vacation with my son and the man I love.... maybe could this happen? Just askin' :)...See MoreStep Family Life Stories needed for a new book
Comments (1)Hi, Part of what I have gone through with my Step-mother is here...http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/step/msg0812243515628.html?46. I commented a few years ago to this post, so you will need to scroll down to where I commented to read about us. There is more to the story, but that was all I wanted to write when I was 16. I am 20 now. There is more about my Half-brother in this forum somewhere that I have included in another comment. If this seems like a story that you would like to hear more about, please comment on here that you would like to know more, and I will type more of my story. Hope this helps you. AR_Dramaqueen...See MoreHonesty or spare feelings?
Comments (45)I wasn't trying to tell Love to pretend. I'm saying that Love should carefully choose when the best times to shed light on WBSM so that Dad's perception is not clouded. The difference between KKNY and Love is that KKNY is the parent sticking up for her child (Mama Bear... we all have her in us!) and Love IS the child. Totally different dynamic. In order to say she won't tolerate snide comments etc. she will have to prove somehow to Dad that she's not just misinterpreting the actions of *poor* WBSM who is so *misunderstood*. In my experience the only way to do that is to move a little quicker (once you realize the name of the game she is playing) and not do anything that could be misconstrued as being petty or vindictive or sulky/whiny/childish and have clear proof that is not TOLD to dad but SHOWN to dad. Of course, in my situation dad had to see it time and time and time again with different people, and he kept excusing SM as being really *nice* but that people *for some reason* just didn't see that side of her. Finally enough people gave him such similar feedback: "dude, your wife's a beyotch" that he listened. The last instance was him and her telling me what constituted a "good hostess" and listed the people who were, and who weren't. When my dad was talking to me alone later I said that it was kind of ironic that SM would be dissecting the hospitality of others when so many had negative experiences at her home. (we've come to the point where if I put things gently enough, pointing them out gently then stepping back, my dad will kind of discover/realize on his own) He was shocked, and realized that people who weren't "nice" to SM.... well... she's not particularly that "nice" either. Hm... now what? I suppose someday we'll be at a place that we can just talk about it without me fearing I will be misinterpreted. But, in my case too, this all started when I was 18. Love has enough years past 18 that she can approach it with a little more dignity than I did; first crying, telling dad she was mean to me, saying she did *little* things; looks, gestures... actions... that looked like they were nice but were really passive aggressive; next pointing it out right when it happened "see! THAT'S what I'm talking about"; next, removing myself from their life; next, bending over backwards to make her comfortable ie shut her up and then feeling horrible and crying after; finally, outmaneuvering her by being strong and kind and exposing her actions as she goes. Not pointing. Not talking. Letting her dig holes in front of me then stepping out of the way and watching her fall in. And then, the hardest part: not laughing, pointing, calling attention. Letting her call attention to herself. I'm just sending out the warning. Being direct does not always work and can make things worse....See MoreDeadbeat moms (cont.)
Comments (26)I totally agree Kathline. My SD's mom does not blame my husband, she tells SD (and everyone who will listen) that DH is the nicest guy and would NEVER do any of this if I wasn't making him. In a way, she's right. DH is mild mannered and let things go and when we got together, BM would do things to mess with our life. She would find out we have plans for a weekend she has her daughter and call him at the last minute saying she can't keep her, can he take her PLEASE? He has never said no, so our plans would get ruined. I'd rearrange the weekend to include their daughter and when she'd go back and tell her mom we had fun, her mom would call and yell at DH that she doesn't want me to do this or that with her daughter, she is the mom, I am not. He would get all stressed out over her ranting phone calls and it caused tension between us. I was trying to be accommodating to BM when she had him keep SD on her weekends, but I think her plan was for us to have conflict over her daughter ruining our plans. Our conflict was over BM's ranting phone calls after every weekend. He was getting frustrated because she had never been that bad before but when SD spent time (and enjoyed it) with me, BM went off the deep end. So, it was DH's complaints to me that prompted me to help him take the necessary steps to get his legal rights to his daughter and that meant the court process, so yes, I supported him 125% and helped pay for it and BM is right that if I was not around, he probably would never have done all this. But, if I were not around, would BM have made his life so miserable that he felt he had to do something? Her reaction to our relationship is what started it all and her plan to run me off, using her daughter as part of it, did not work. She either doesn't realize it or want to admit it to herself, that DH does what he wants to do. I can't 'force' him to go to court. I can't get him to take a day off from work for very much, he only took three days off for our honeymoon. But, he takes time off for court (for his daughter) and school things with no problem. (well, he does worry about losing too much time from work because he's on commission when BM doesn't show up for court or continues it, that annoys him) But, back to the point, BM blames the whole thing on me. My relationship is somewhat strained because her mom discusses everything with her (and in pseudo's case as well) but I have been thinking about taking some of TOS's advice, 'kids have the right to know the truth.' I know that if they do anything to BM, she will blame it on me. She already told SD that she can't come to her school because she HAS to go to a job interview. So, it is our fault she can't come to the school because if she didn't have to pay child support, she wouldn't have to go to a job interview and this is how she presents it to her daughter. So, should she be told the truth? Her mom needs to work to help BF pay for their house. Her mom and dad are responsible for buying her stuff, not me. If I don't buy it and mom isn't working, it means dad has to get another job and can't spend much time with her. or how about 'grown ups are supposed to work'. If she loses her license and blames me for not being able to see her daughter (which she will). Same if she goes to jail. She already has bad credit but she will certainly blame me for giving her bad credit. She already tells her it's my fault they have no money, she can't buy her things because I made daddy take her to court blah blah blah The way I see it, it doesn't matter what, she is going to blame me regardless. I don't think a parent should be allowed to get away with something because they are manipulative and place blame or responsibility for everything on everyone else. Maybe my husband should tell her that he'd be in jail if he didn't feed and clothe her. Maybe if she were in jail, SD would be upset about it but BM wouldn't be feeding her all the lies because she wouldn't have the opportunity. I don't want to see parents in jail for not supporting their kids, I'd like to see parents having pride in supporting their kids. and yes, my son's father has been in jail a few times and while most were for other reasons, he has been to jail at least once for non payment. He hasn't filed taxes in over 20 years and can't get a drivers license. (I think he has gone to jail for driving without a license and when he was arrested for no license, they found other things to charge him with) My daughter's father hasn't had a license so he also may have been arrested. I know he was in jail last year, but I don't know why. His daughter told my daughter on myspace that he was in jail but wouldn't say why but was angry at my daughter so I assume it might have to do with child support. I haven't been contacted but did start getting some payments soon after that. He's in another state and I haven't looked into what is being done to collect. My middle son's father wasn't adjudicated as the father until after he was 18. He owes back support and has paid it on time, in full every month. I think the bottom line is that if nobody complains about the non payment of support, then there are too many cases to go after every deadbeat, mom or dad. I do see mom's getting more sympathy in the courtroom than dad's, but I think if nobody complains in the first place, there would be no action taken against mom or dad. I've seen the Judge rip a dad apart for losing his job and not finding some way to pay, but with mom's they are more sympathetic. I think if my husband had lied about his income and refused to bring proof and BM said it was more, the court would have taken her word and used the higher income. I see there is less bias than there used to be, but some still exists....See MoreCara_6
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