Grandparents' Dogs!

My wife and myself have a 4 month old and an 8 year old.
We live in the same town as my parents.
Ever since we had the baby my wife has been very hesitant to visit my parents' house.
The reason is that my parents have three medium sized dogs, one being a Rottwieler (although an unusually timid and small Rottweiler).
My parent let these dogs live in the house with them, the dogs sleep in their bed, beg scraps from the table and lounge on the same furniture you sit on when you visit.
Whenever we visit, there is nowhere to set the baby down that is not accessible to the dogs other than the kitchen and dining room tables both made of glass.
So the only place to go is a guest bedroom where we can close the doors so that the dogs can't get to the baby.
My parents won't close the dogs up in that room or put them outside because they scratch incessantly at the door.
They also will not make a pen for them to go into or leash them because they say this is "cruel".
Needless to say, the dogs make our visits aggravating and uncomfortable.
We have talked to them and they seem pretty unwilling to do anything about the dog problem. They don't really see a problem and say they'll just have to visit us at our house.
But they never come over and I think secretly they are hurt that we don't come to their house often.
My wife says that she won't leave the baby at my mother's house until our son is big enough to defend himself from a dog.
My parents' dogs are sweet dogs, I really don't think they would ever bite, but don't the majority of people who get bit by their dogs always say "That dog NEVER did anything like that!".
I think any chance of our baby being bit is an unacceptable risk.
They are welcome to babysit at our house and visit whenever they please. And we do see them occasionally at their house when we're in a mood to fight the dogs.
Are we wrong for not wanting to leave the baby with them to babysit at their house?

You are not only NOT wrong, you are 100% right! These dogs may be sweet, etc. but someone is forgetting something: dogs are animals. As such, they don't "speak" our language or always understand certain movements and gestures (especially those of a child). Then when a non-biter attacks a child, owners will say, "But he/she has never done this before."
Don't put your baby OR your 8 year old in harm's way. It only takes a second for a child to be maimed or even killed...and these are huge dogs that can do it in a heartbeat. Our dog (a shepherd mix)hates kids, so we make sure she never has access to them. She scratches at the door, too, when she's confined but we've covered it w/plexiglass, so there's no problem.
Stick w/your wife on this one-she's showing more sense than your parents are. Your parents think leashing or penning the dogs is "cruel," huh? Well, I think expecting you and your wife to jeopardize your infant's and your 8 year old's safety/lives is way beyond cruel! Don't let them do this power trip on you or use their dogs as a means of controlling you.
Make them visit you at your house, where at least ONE woman has some common sense. BTW-I'm a grandparent & it's nice to see that even though you're much younger, you both have
good, protective instincts.

All dogs need to be watched even the little ones. My brother has a minature pincher that weighs about 8 lbs. This little dog isn't threatened by adults, but is by little children. The dog jumped up and tried to attack my ds when he was about 6 months old. DS was in my arms in my lap so he wasn't doing anything to the dog to provoke him. Now when we come over, the dog is either put in his kennel, another room, or is on a leash.

I absolutely would not take my children to your parents house if they weren't going to take precautions. Also, pets experience jealousy just like people do. It's possible that they would see your parents holding the baby or your other child and try to attack for that reason.

I'd suggest that you cook a meal and invite your parents over to your house to break the ice a little. Who knows, maybe they would start visiting more often.

Even the most gentle of dogs can make bad scratches with their paws. If they won't agree to put the dogs up while you visit, always hold the baby and make sure the 8 yr old has on long pants and a long sleeved shirt. She's probably tall enough that her face is out if danger.

The dogs should be kenneled or put outside when the baby is visiting if it makes your wife uneasy.
I would NEVER leave any TYPE of dog alone with a baby. Awhile back a Pomeranian killed a young baby. All dogs should be watched closely with young children and babies.
I do however have a question. What does this statement mean?

"Ever since we had the baby my wife has been very hesitant to visit my parents' house.
The reason is that my parents have three medium sized dogs, one being a Rottwieler (although an unusually timid and small Rottweiler)."

You didn't say what the other 2 med sized dogs were. Is there a reason you needed to point out one was a rottie?
I hope you weren't saying they are bad dogs....:(

I have one grand daughter and a couple of small house dogs.
The dogs loved her when she was an infant. Couldn't get enough of her. But when she started to toddle around the house it was a different story. Both dogs showed teeth when she got close..I decided then and there it was not going to be an issue. So I bought a baby gate and put it on our bedroom door and the minute the kids drove in, the dogs went to our room. And stayed there as long as the baby was not in her play pen or high chair.
Grand daughter is now almost 4. The dogs have accepted her more, but they automaticaly head for the bedroom and stay there while she visits. And we insist that she show them the respect of not going into the room. I just can't see that there is a choice here. Babies and then animals. And this is coming from someone who considers her dogs her babies.....Buy a gate and take it with you. If the dogs can observe from inside the room they won't object. They'll most likely just sleep. But also insist that the children respect the gate and not approach the dogs. It goes both ways.

To answer Precious' question, the reason I pointed out that one of the dogs was a Rottie is to emphasize the fact that these are not little lapdogs and do have the capacity to be a danger to our baby.

To follow up on my post: I just had another heart to heart with my Mom yesterday concerning the dog situation. I honestly don't think she understands the problem. She said things like, "You grew up around dogs, you used to play on the floor with one when you were a baby and it never bit you."
I also think she believes the dogs are just an excuse for some other dark, lingering reason that we don't visit often. And this is not true. I asked my wife, "Is it the dogs? Are you sure there is not some other reason you don't feel comfortable going to my parents house? She said, "No, it's the dogs." My mother even said, "O.K. what is it? What's the REAL problem here?"
My parents are really bad about reading into things and blowing them out of proportion. They just can't believe the dogs are the reason. They think it's just a power play by my wife. And the truth is, if my wife was even half as controlling as they think she is, I would divorce her.
BTW thanks for the responses, this is better than therapy and a whole lot cheaper.

Sounds like your parents are the ones trying a power play.

Even the nicest dogs can behave unpredictably (really thru no fault of their own) around babies and toddlers, and even older kids.

The argument that you turned out ok, despite being raised around dogs, is like saying that carseats are useless because our generation grew up without them. There's no comparison.

My mom smoked around me all my life. But she is NOT allowed to smoke around her granddaughter. She has no problem with that. She just gets it. She never has argued the point with me. Like you said, your parents must be trying to read something else into it that's not there.

You and your wife's desire for the dogs to be in another area when the baby is around should be granted. You're not asking them to kick the dogs out, just ensure that they are secured somewhere else prior to baby coming out to play.

I have known too many kids to get nipped (yes, innocently on the dogs' part, but it happens) and even bitten to the point of stitches. It's also more likely when you are guests in a dogowner's home, because the dogs are not used to the kids. Your childhood pets had you around all the time, and were pretty accustomed to you so it probably was a different environment.

Best of luck!

(we only charge $100 an hour for therapy sessions. I'll let you know where to send the check) :-)

Oh my, I can sympathize with your situation.

When my dd was three, her grandparents (my inlaws) and a few additional relatives came to visit, with their golden retriever. The dog has known dd since infancy. While sitting on my lap and not touching the dog at all(who was facing the other way and about a foot away from us), the dog suddenly turned on dd and bit her hand, breaking the skin. Not a bad bite, but it was enough that to this day, the dog scares her (she is now 7).

When we later expressed concern about the dog's behaviour to my inlaws in a calm but concerned manner, we were told that we were making a mountain out of a molehill. They went so far as to call up my two sisters in law to complain about how we reacted.

The dog is no longer welcome at our house, and the incident strained our relationship for some time. When we visit them now (less frequently, I might add) the grandparents refuse to tie up the dog or send him to a kennel for a few days, so we simply make sure that the kids (we have two now) give the dog a wide berth.

Show this email to your parents- maybe it will help to explain that your concerns are very real and an incident like ours can do lasting damage.

Good luck- I hope you fare better than we did.

Small babies and toddlers are sometimes a "threat" to animals, dogs, cats,etc. Just make sure the the children are not eye level to any dog. This is a threat to the dog. My Alaskan Husky got put outside when the GD were around. As she got older, after she had been there for awhild I did let the dog in the house, but watched her like a hawk. Sometimes 2-3 dogs will act like a pack. not meaning to hurt a child but one will growl and set the others off. Dogs are still pack animals. Protect the children the best you can.
Marie

So sorry to hijack this thread, maybe you all can reassure me....we are building a new home in a HOA where fences are not allowed. We just found out that the people that just built and moved in next door have a Rottweiler. I have not met the neighbors, nor have I seen the dog. I know there are specific breeds that seem to have a "bad rap", Rotties included, but isn't it true that some of these breeds are much stronger and essentially have the cabacity to do much more damage to a victim than the "average" dog?

What keeps going through my mind is a K-9 dog that my dad was helping his deputy friend train attacked our dog unprovoked. He had a very powerful shock collar on, and the deputy immediately started shocking him. His jaws were clamped down on our dogs neck. Two 225+ lb. men could not get him to release. They basically had to beat this dog until he let go.

I hear about these dog attacks and the same breeds always get mentioned. I would love to hear about YOUR good experiences with these pets, and that I should not worry about this.

All dogs are different I guess. I have a Rottweiler, and an Australian Shepherd, and young kids. We had the dogs before we had the kids. We've never had any problems, and we don't restrain or cage/lock up our dogs. But then, we don't believe there's any such thing as a "kid safe" home, and are always with our children. (Except at nap time, when they were in a room with a closed door & a baby monitor). The dogs have needed more defending than the children, but we strongly believe in teaching children that some things should not be touched (dog's eyes, electric cords, bathtub hot water tap...).

Anyway, even though my Rottie's a sweetie, that doesn't decrease the chances that the one next door to you is a demon.

tlescak, you are right on to be concerned, Always protect your children, and go with your instincts.
I just saw a program on dogs the other day, the 3 most likely to bite are pit bull, Rotweiller, and German shepherd. But any of them will if they think their territory is threatened. And even just playing can give bad scratches.

For the one poster with no fences allowed, I understand your fear, my son and family live in a sub division with several bigger dogs, some do have fences in their yards, I don't take the gc for walks when I am there.

My sis and I have always been close, but I don't go to her house anymore unless it is a "have to" situation. She has acquired 3 dogs, 2 labs and a Chihuahua. One of the labs has started to snap at the family members. It is not the biting that concerns me, but the jumping when I go in and constantly being surrounded by dogs. Someone is always yelling get down, stay down, etc.. It's a mad house. I glanced at her printer and I thought it had fine hairline cracks all over it. When I looked closer it was dog hair. I have heard pet owners say, "if you don't like my dogs, don't come over", so I have opted for that.

IF these dogs were disciplined, there would be no problem. I was raised with multiple dogs, my two children were raised with dogs and my grandchildren are being raised with dogs. There has never been a problem because the dogs are disciplined.

As a matter of fact, each and every dog has assumed the position of protector of the children. (The dog I had when I was young even assumed the protection of my elderly, bedridden grandmother - you couldn't get near her until the dog was convinced you were not going to harm her. Even the doctor and minister had to have the dog's blessing.)

It seems in this situation, the dogs are not disciplined and are nothing but a pain in the rear, but saying no child should ever be left alone with any dog is a sweeping statement that is just untrue and unfair to those dogs owners who are responsible.

Some children need discipline. By that I mean they need to understand & respect the animal. Don't invade it's territory, ask if you can pet before putting your hand out, etc. Our shiz-tzu 'worked' with us and loved to greet the customers. When we had small children we always stayed with them and when the dog had enough she would walk out of the front and go to the back. We'd shut the gate and tell the child that the dog was going to take a nap. I took it upon myself to explain this to the kids in front the parent. Most parents at our store liked that we were concerned about their child's safety. We would not have be able to have a 'scary' breed at the store. The small size and pug-like nose allowed us to have a free-running dog.

It boils down to old fashioned good manners on the part of everyone involved. If one person is uncomfortable for whatever reason something can be done. The hard part is often explaining and listening without a knee-jerk reaction.

DH and I have had four Westies over the years of our marriage. When our son was a baby, our dog allowed him to pull his hair and pound on him. (We didn't encourage this, but sometimes that would happen too fast for us to react.) As soon as DS *walked*, our dog decided he was no longer "a puppy", and would give him a warning grrrr before retreating under the bed.

I see the same behavior from our present Westie with our grandson. The baby rolls toward the dog on the floor and grabs his hair; dog accepts this.

Our DS and DIL have two Boxers, who also accept the new "puppy" -- so far.

That said, I would never leave a baby alone with any breed of dog (or cat).

It is hard to hear that some dog owners refuse to honor their guests' desire to pen the animals. I don't care if it is grandchildren or the next door neighbor who comes to call. A host makes his guests comfortable!

Re the question about pit bulls and rottweilers: Watch Animal Cops and Animal Precinct on the Animal Planet channel. The majority of dogs taken in because of owners not being to handle them are pits, with rotties second. The majority of dogs that the SPCAs on those shows have to euthanize are again, pits and rotties. Someone may be able to mention a collie or beagle that turned vicious and attacked, but it would be extremely unusual. Pit bull breeding is out of control - these dogs are sought for their aggressive behavior. I don't know if the same is true for rottweilers, but you couldn't pay me to have this breed around children or the elderly for any reason.

Dogs are by nature aggressive and territorial. No amount of training can get rid of this instinct. It may never appear in overt behavior, but it's always there. I would never bring my children to a home with untrustworthy dogs, not even that of my parents. I would also not leave an older child alone with a dog unless that child had proven that he was the alpha creature in that relationship and was used to handling the dog.

Here in California pit bulls have made virtually all the attacks reported over the past several years. That is, with the exception of the two presa canarios who killed a thirty-year old woman in San Francisco a few years ago.

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