I know there is a lot more to the story than you could possibly ever tell us and that sometimes you have to be there to actually understand. I just tried to look at what you were saying and tried to offer help. When I said about them going to court and taking the kids~I meant to also add that they could also just come and get them. Going to court was of course the extreme. It does make the situation a little different when I know they had you take them so they wouldn't totally loose them. Most people in they're situation would be in denial of a problem and keep the kids until the state did step in and even then they're in denial. It is good that they realize to some extent that there is a problem. What happened with your DIL that she is the way she is? Did her mother do the same as she's doing with her kids and that's why she never learned things? Or is it that she had a problem that they didn't accept was there and this is the end result? Most of the examples of things that she couldn't do are simple things that can very easily be learned, as you said. I guess it makes you realize just how lucky we are. We take advantage of being able to every day little tasks that are VERY hard for others. After reading your last reply I have a different out look with your situation. I can see that your son isn't really trying to be selfish. He made a few mistakes (like getting her pregnant this time) but he has to really love her to deal with all of this. I guess from what I read previously I just thought he thought it was easier this way and didn't care if he had the kids or not. Does he call and come see them and does your DIL also? I would think this has to be hard on them, too. Has anyone tried to contact your DIL's parents? Maybe just to ask them what her history was and so on. I thought it sounded like she just disowned them but why? Like if the sexual abuse story was all made up, what was the reasoning behind that? (Just went back and reread and I saw about her mother calling SS when the daughter got outside while the mother was asleep. I can understand why she called SS~the child was in danger. I wish my MIL had the guts to do that to SIL and BIL. The kids about 2 years ago~they were 4 and 2~packed a bag and decided, well Eric decided, to go get Mommy at work. They were outside in t-shirts and diapers and/or underwear in the middle of winter! Meanwhile they're father was in the house sleeping away. They were too cheap to send the kids to a sitter so BIL worked 11-7 and then had to stay up with the kids until his wife got home around 3pm. The kids were forced to nap or stay in they're rooms most of the day while he would sleep! They got out twice! They happened to live across from the school and one of the teachers saw these two and took them inside and called the police. BIL just happened to think he better call the police and report them missing. Later that day they were laughing about the whole thing!!!) Her past may be of great help for you guys now to deal with all this. Did she come from a very loving home? Would all the attention and love and support be something that could help her greatly? I know you said she would make things hard if she came to live with you but would the outcome be better for her and your son and their kids? Would it be any harder than it could be to care for 3 kids until they are adults? I don't know if I am any help. I guess talking about it and getting this out helps a little more than anything. Taking it one day at a time will help also. You can't really worry about what will happen when the baby comes until that day comes. I'm sure you'll do alright no matter what happens. It truly does sound like your grandson is doing much better with you and you're teaching him so much. I hope you're enjoying this time. It also is great to know you took in Caroline because she's not really your biological grandchild and many people are different with step grands. Maybe you can help her out before it's too late, also. Many of the "problems" that you have with her may just be because of her age. It's that pre-teen age and you think you know it all. Also I don't know if you had daughters but some people will say they are harder at this age and if your other children were boys, that will make it harder for you. It's certainly going to be different. Also, she's older and had more influence from her mother and others in her life. It also sounded like she had to take care of herself a lot of the time and maybe she thinks she doesn't need help now? Plus she probably wasn't used to having rules or someone at least making sure she stuck by them. Zachery was pretty small and young when you got him so he's learning most of his stuff from you. YOu and your husband will be in most of his memories as a child and you'll have a great effect on who he becomes. I just greatly admire you for what you have taken on. Good luck with the future!

I dont think that it is a physical thing. My grandfather is thoroughly supporting her statements. They are bringing up things from 7 years ago, etc. I think it is insecurity about the situation with her sister, and becoming more homebound themselves. But the big problem is that they refuse to be part of the solution. When Mom asks them what more she can do, they respond with statements like "I just dont know, you just feel obligated, etc". Its like they made up their minds to always be mad. And grandma grossly misinterpreted things from the past, like she is looking for the most remote examples that my mother doesnt "love" her or something....totally unwaranted. They have had several more discussions with no resolution, and things are increasingly ackward. I just hope we can get to the bottom of it soon.

Is there any way you can consult a lawyer without going broke? In Canada, in Ontario at least, family law has changed a lot in the last 5 years. We are in the process of obtaining legal custody of our 10 month old grandson, and do not have to petition the courts for the right to seek custody. Our situation is such that we expect no difficulty in obtaining full time permanent custody, but many grandparents are in terribly difficult situations. i would suggest that if possible you seek legal assistance so things are done right.

Grandma and Grandpa is what we called my mom's parents. I called my dad's mom Grandma...but I don't ever remember seeing her more than a few times. However, we did write to each other regularly. My boys called my mom, Nini. And we have no idea where that came from. It just happened. Their dad's parents were both gone when they were born, so I don't know what they would have been called. I don't know what we would want to be called for sure. Guess time will tell. My older son and his girlfriend don't want kids and my younger son and his girlfriend will probably have a few.