My prayers are with you all, Ellie. I am so pleased to hear that Cody and his Dad are getting along so well now. God has a way of making things all work out, doesn't He? Jan

I am not the judgmental type, and I really believe you never know the reasons for someone else's decisions until you walk in their shoes (if you ever even can). I also do not consider myself terribly naive. But I have wondered time and again why my BF's EX did what she did. By that I mean, have an affair, decide to leave her husband after getting a new mortgage and breastfeeding second daughter, ransack the house while BF was at work and leave a mess in front of her daughters, use BF's inheritance money to move them several states away, secretly remarry, and buy and subsequently have to sell several houses and have the kids change schools because she and new hubby did not plan their budget well. I have wondered to the point where it is unreasonable of me - some things do not and should not make sense. Her actions are, of course, more of a function of her personality and whatever she felt the situation was than the fact she is a bio-mom or whatever other role she may fall into. If someone has a history of displaying weak, selfish behavior, the same can be expected in the future. Even if she despised her husband, anyone who knows him could see what a devoted, capable and attentive father he is. It is really a shame to have moved so far away for the convenience of having built-in babysitters in the form of relatives. I am always shocked to hear when her plans for bringing them north every other month (per court order) inevitably "don't work out" that she tells them, "I don't know why you can't see your dad - ask him to explain." Whenever I enter into an agreement with someone, if I am compelled to leave it I do so with dignity and respect for all involved. The saddest thing was when his older daughter at the age of 8 said to us, "Mom said she left you so that she could finally be happy in life. But she still doesn't seem happy to me." Kids should not be burdened with worrying about these things. I am a child of divorce and I remember the pain well.

"I feel for your SD because it must be crushing to have to relearn all over again that her mom does not care to be involved in her life. It seems that SDs will always give the BM the benefit of the doubt and will forgive and think they might actually come through this time, so it is like a fresh cut each time. SD wants BM to be if not involved at least more interested, and in our case, SD does not know where her rage comes from, but I know it is from not getting the attention from the one person she wants it from the most. I have told DH, I am here - I am the one doing the raising, disciplining, loving (as hard as that can be sometimes), but it does not matter because she needs her mom. Let me clarify, she needs who she wants her mom to be. Her mom talks a good game to SD but getting her to follow through is difficult." EXACTLY!!! Thank you mama22 for sharing. Sylvia~ DH & BM shared 50/50 custody without a court order until SD was in 2nd grade. During that year, BM threatened DH for the umpteenth time that she was going to take SD away & not let him see her because he didn't do what she wanted. I take the blame in sharing my experience in family law... I told him he has RIGHTS but without a court order, she very well could take SD & he had nothing to say he has a right to see her. So, after the third time she threatened him with that, he filed to get his rights on paper. She immediately filed for full custody & child support. (He didn't file anything for child support because if they both have 50/50, they are each supporting her the same... but the issue of support was brought by BM initially) She spent the duration of the battle (about 6 months) telling SD how "daddy is trying to take you away from me" and reassuring her that she won't let that happen. She tried to manipulate the therapist, got SD to tell the therapist that she really wanted to just live with BM... but then SD had no explanation of why. Then three weeks after their trial & DH getting his court order for 50/50, BM moved during DH's week & kinda dropped SD in his lap saying she couldn't take SD with her so she's gonna let him have her "temporarily" and that devastated SD. Within a few months, SD was telling classmates she was moving with BM & saying her goodbyes. BM was telling her how we took her away but that she was going to get her & she was going to go live there with BM. It was all lies. During the first year, BM canceled weekends which only made SD more emotionally upset. We would make plans to do fun stuff to keep her mind off it, but SD would spend the whole time talking about "if my mom was here ______" and though she was in counseling, she refused to open up. Instead, she said what she thought everyone wanted to hear. She got bad about lying to her second counselor, pretending everything in the world was fine... she doesn't NEED counseling. But, all along, BM has been the one keeping it alive. When she would come get SD, she would always (yes, every time) show up hours early & sign her out of school early. SD wasn't doing real well to begin with because of her emotional stuff dealing with BM moving away so suddenly. Finally DH told her she had to let SD finish the day in school because she is falling behind & needs to be there as much as possible. It wasn't convenient for BM to wait around so that's when BM started sending grandma to get her. That was three years ago. DH took BM to court a year later asking that only BM may pick up SD. Grandma was picking her up & taking her to BM (sometimes keeping her instead too) but BM was not giving her much attention, which caused the emotional problems to get worse... so DH figured if he got an order forcing BM to come get her, she would either drive up to get her (showing she cared) or cancel more time, which was kinda what we were hoping. We did not want to ask the court to cut off BM's time because all along, BM has been feeding SD lies that we are just trying to remove her from the picture & that would have seemed true if he tried to cut off BM's time. We've tried involving her in activities so she would rather be here than with BM... none of it has worked. BM has insisted all along, SD will eventually live there. I think SD stopped trying in school because she figured it doesn't matter because she's going to be leaving to go live with mom anyway. As long as BM continues to feed SD lies & false hope with promises, and as long as SD believes (or wants to believe) BM will follow through, it feels as if we are stuck. It seems like SD knows her mom is full of it, but she's not ready to admit it or face it. I think it has been a very slow process but seeing mom have another baby that not only gets to live with her, but since the baby is the string to holding on to the BF, BM appears to dote on him to SD (plus babies need all the attention too). Personally, I think BM schleps him off on others most of the time but doesn't want us to know that so she dotes on him around SD, which only makes things harder for her because she has struggled for years to get mom to pay attention to her & her mom, in trying to show us what a happy family she has with BF & baby, it's probably a knife through SD's heart each time. SD is realizing that BM is probably never going to seek custody of her and have her live there, especially now that they had to move from a fairly huge 4 bedroom house to a 2 bedroom mobile home. and Friday, SD saw that mom could care less what happens to her as far as school goes. I think SD knows that she won't be living with BM next year & BM says "I don't care if she has to repeat 6th grade again!" I mean, I don't always get along well with her & I do come across as harsh sometimes, but I care what happens to her. I think it's important for her to have an education & the biggest reason I am in favor of holding her back is because DH told her that if things don't improve, and if she keeps getting F's in multiple classes, he would have to hold her back because it indicates she is not ready to do more advanced work. But we don't WANT to see her held back, we want to see her work habits get better because each year, the assignments get harder. The bottom line is DH said it will happen if she continues to lie about finishing or turning in her work. She just admitted that she goes to a morning tutor class where she's supposed to bring questions about math & get an understanding so she can improve, she admitted she goes to the class & just sits there. Well, we all have been getting up an hour early twice a week for her to go so she can get help understanding math but her grade actually went down since she started it. We understand she has problems but she also needs to be at least trying, but she's been giving lip service and holding her back is a last resort. BM didn't want to discuss options to help her... so seeing her mom has an "I don't care" attitude, I'm getting hopeful she is going to come around. I saw something in her face I had never seen before and it just broke my heart. Another reason I think she and I have not been able to get along is that I think she knows that I don't believe or buy into her BS... she knows that I know what her mom is all about. I'm sure she knows much better because she is behind the scenes with her mom & hears her mom lying about stuff she knows about. She's now getting to the age where she's figuring out that mom lies to her the way she lies to everyone else. But, by no means have we been dragging BM into SD's life. Personally I think SD would be better off if BM would either step up or step off.. but this constant roller coaster she keeps her on is so hard on her. I don't know if that dynamic can be changed as long as SD fantasizes about living with her mom & BM keeps the dream alive with empty promises. We cannot financially afford to instigate a court proceeding to limit BM's contact, although it has been suggested that he seek supervised visits because of how BM discusses everything with SD. Me personally, I have been so frustrated I have welcomed the thought of SD going to live with her mom. AT least then she would see that it's not the fantasy that she has drummed up in her head. BM is focused on the new baby & trying to salvage her relationship with BF. I think deep down, SD knows it but still fantasizes that it would be different if she just lived there. The worse part in SD's situation is that it's such a long heartbreaking process to go through... and she may never actually give up on the fantasy. We can only hope.

"i remember what my mom looks like naked and it still grosses me out!! and that was my MOTHER not my FATHER!!! (YUUUCK!!!)" Wow, that says a lot about you, Sugarland. Do you really feel that way? If so, it's kind of sad. It also explains why your followup deals nearly exclusively with the nudity instead of the valid problems. "he's just too old to be seeing his mom naked." While you have every right to feel that way, you don't have any right to expect a say in it. You're not his mother. There are no studies that demonstrate that children are harmed by parental nudity. There are more households than you realize that have a casual, relaxed attitude about nudity. "he's always tried to check out my goods, and has succeeded at times. he's always been very curious as to what i look like since he's sees his mom on a daily basis. when he lived with us we tried to teach him about privacy. knock before you go into the bathroom, shut the door to your bedroom when your changing, things like that. he seemed to have lost interest in trying to sneak a peek at me. but it has returned since he's been back with mom." Of course I have no idea what his actions are, but what you call his trying to "check out your goods", might simply be him wanting to be with you. You said you had a great relationship; maybe he just doesn't realize the importance privacy is to you. At 8 years old, he certainly should be able to understand that there are different rules as far as modesty at the the two households. Maybe he just needs more reinforcement as to what's expected at your place. Of the issues you mentioned in your initial post, the boyfriends showering with him and the hurtful things she says to him seem to be the real issues. The boyfriends showering with him 'could' be innocent, but the fact that the boyfriends are staying overnight or living there isn't the healthiest thing for the boy to experience. As far as the hurtful things the mom says, well, that's just horrible. That's got to hurt. "what should he do to get his son out of his wierd mothers home????" Has he asked the mom if he could live with the two of you? Maybe he could give her a little financial incentive. What does the boy want? He's at the age where, barring abuse or other such factors, the courts will take his wishes into consideration (if your custody issue gets to the court stage). Good luck, Joe