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wow8kids

Refinishing dining room table - sort of - help the rookie!

wow8kids
9 years ago

Greetings! I am new here, and don't know how active this list is - I hope I get some quick responses.

I have a table we purchased at a furniture store (HOM). When we got it, we could tell the finish was not going to hold up to our growing family. My husband put on an extra coat of poly, and it looked great. We left it for 2 days and started using it. I was SUPER disappointed when it started scratching and chipping. But that all stopped after about a week. We realize now that it was dry, but hadn't cured. Now, several years later, I want to fix that. It gets used hard as we have 8 children, homeschool and we do a lot of entertaining...so not kidding when I say it gets used hard.

I have not done anything quite like this before and I'm getting some fairly conflicting information from the all knowing Web. So, here's my questions:

1) Can I do this without taking the top down to bare wood? (I do not want to compromise the top matching the rest of the table and chairs).
2) One place said I could sand the top lightly, then put poly on it, and the cracks, chips will fill in because "all poly is self-leveling". True? This sounds too easy.
3) Do I apply the poly with a brush or a rag? I have read a brush, but then I read all sorts of things about brush marks - which, of course, I don't want.
4) My neighbor absolutely swears it must be something made by General's Top Coat and I must put on 6-7 coats with a rag. If this is the only way to make it turn out - I will, but 6-7 coats sounds excessive to me...
5) Should I sand smooth the chips/nicks like I would if I were filling holes while painting?

Thank you for your help! Sorry for jumping in when I'm such the rookie, but I am just feeling SO lost here!

Comments (3)

  • JAAune
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Let's get the bad news out of the way.

    You're getting conflicting information because there are literally hundreds of processes that have all been used successfully in wood finishing. There are even more that have been unsuccessful. The bad news is that unless you're starting with new, clean wood, it's not easy to know how any particular method will turn out.

    Even as a professional with dozens of repair jobs under my belt, I seldom know what technique to attempt for any repair job off-hand. It's usually a careful procedure of testing several good techniques then finding out what works for that piece of furniture. Last resort is a full strip and refinish.

    So to answer your questions directly...

    1. Yes, you can do this without removing the original finish provided that it is intact and not peeling or falling off. You can't put new finish on top of something that's no longer sticking.

    2. The place that said that was created by people who either do lousy work or haven't actually tried their own technique. In the real world, finish tends to reveal every dip, bump and crack on the underlying surface. You have to put many, many coats on before such defects will blend in and that would result in too thick a finish.

    3. You can use a brush or a rag. It all depends upon what finish you use, how thick it is and how fast it dries. You have to figure this one out after you know what finish to use.

    4. Your neighbor likely has used his technique with good results on whatever it is he likes to do but it's not the only good method and it may fail on your table. With wood finishing, something that works in one situation doesn't always work in another. One benefit is that he's applying many ultra thin coats with a rag. Doing this eliminates brush marks but is also why he needs to do 6-7 coats. Of course with your table already having finish on it, his favorite finish might not stick and it probably wouldn't require that many coats either.

    5. You have the idea here. You need that surface to be as smooth as you'd like the final product to be before applying that last coat of finish.

    I can't give 100% accurate advice over the net but I'd hazard to say that you'd be successful sanding around the chips and feather them into the surrounding area so they're less pronounced. Then you can apply several drops of finish on that area and let it stand high and proud. Once the finish is hard enough to sand, level the new varnish back to a level surface. Finish off by scuffing the entire top with p220 or higher grit sandpaper then apply a final coat of finish.

    Since you've been mostly pleased with the performance of the product your husband used, that will probably work fine so long as you clean and sand the old finish before application. Chances are that if it could stick and hold up the first time it will do so again. Just give it a lot more cure time such as two weeks or so.

    This post was edited by JAAune on Wed, Jun 4, 14 at 17:39

  • wow8kids
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you so much, JAAune!! Those were extremely helpful answers, even if they weren't super specific. Knowing that there really are LOTS of ways to do the same job makes it easier to understand why I seem to be getting conflicting information.

    I got the poly product my neighbor highly recommended. Started sanding off the top poly that my husband used, trying to be careful on the spots that were chipping. No dice. I wasn't careful enough, apparently, because now I can tell where those spots are - they are all lighter than the rest of the table! Gah! I just KNEW I was NOT cut out for the patient and fussy work of woodworking. I am a very Type A person, and I was trying to be very careful, but I am pretty sure this is going to lead me to stripping the whole thing and restaining the top. Really bummed about this. Now I'm wondering if there is any way to salvage this project, or if I need to just call it a night and plan to strip it tomorrow. This is so discouraging. The poly that was on there is also cloudy in some places and not in others, even though I was trying to carefully sand it all the same.

    SO - I guess my next question is: how do I get this all off? Do I really have to sand it all off? If so, what grit do I need to do that with? Do I need another product to take it all off?

  • JAAune
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't feel bad. What you're trying to do does require a lot of finesse and without the experience it's a learning process for sure. If you can figure it out you'll definitely save some money. It's especially fun when you can go to a second hand store and find a great piece of furniture that's cheap and unwanted because the finish is in bad shape.

    Okay, so you're at the point of over sanding and cutting into the underlying stain. I'm assuming the color is different and it's not just the white haze caused by sanding on varnish?

    It's probably still possible to blend the lighter spots back in but I'm not sure you'd want to purchase the supplies to try the techniques out. I sometimes use touch up markers from a commercial finish supplier or raw pigments and dyes mixed with thinned shellac. You'd have to invest $50+ in supplies to attempt a technique that is difficult even for a pro and may fail and the supplies will likely go to waste afterwards.

    Now if I were working on that table, I'm guessing I'd be swinging into full strip and refinish mode. The reason is that you say your husband's poly is cloudy in spots. If that was there before you started sanding then it could be water damage. Otherwise, it's almost certainly an indication that the finish has separated from the surface below. Trying to finish over the top of that would be a waste of time.

    No, you don't have to sand all the finish off. It's also really difficult to sand off an old finish and end up with nice, even coloring afterwards. Using chemical strippers is a lot easier but also a little intimidating if you've not done it before. For starters, you need to do it outside because you don't have the equipment to ventilate the fumes. Secondly, you'll need to invest in $30 of gloves, scrapers, brushes and other supplies if you don't have them already. This will also remove most of the stain and require matching the new finish to the chairs.

    Your best bet is to first see if there's a reputable shop in your area that is setup with a flow-over strip system, outsource the stripping but do the refinish yourself. Chances are, it'll cost you almost as much to get supplies to get started with the chemicals as it will to pay a professional to do that part.

    If you do that job yourself, you'll need plastic drop cloth, heavy nitrile or neoprene gloves (probably multiple pairs unless you find the good ones), some scrub brushes, plastic putty knives and half a dozen pieces of Scotch Brite. That's in addition to the stripper and the solvent required to wash away the residue.

    I use methylene chloride stripper but it's potent stuff. Breathing it is bad and it will burn skin within seconds of contact. Plenty of ventilation is a must when using that and since some companies add flammable solvent to the mix, explosion-proof ventilation is a must. That means work outdoors or own professional finishing equipment.

    The citrus-based and soy based strippers work fine but are slower and in my experience, more expensive. 3M Safest Stripper is very slow but effective when used properly and can be used indoors. Downsides are water content will make the wood moist and it was more expensive than the others the last time I checked.

    If after reading that, you prefer the hard, dusty work of sanding, then my approach would be to get good coated (minimizes clogging) sandpaper from an automotive finish supplier and start with 80 grit on flat surfaces. Don't bear down on the paper, just use even, smooth strokes and let the paper do the cutting. Stop using the 80 as soon as the wood starts showing through and move to 100 to get most of the remainder off. 120 is good for cleaning off the last residue and you can jump to 220 to prepare for stain. Always sand with the grain of the wood. For profiles and other details, I'd not start below 150 grit.

    Be careful sanding on that top though. It may be a thin veneer so avoid removing any wood. and that's another reason I use chemicals instead of sandpaper.