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Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Posted by mia_ (My Page) on
Fri, May 25, 07 at 9:02

Hi everyone,

I just looked at the Hancock & Moore "City Sofa" (83" long version) leather sofa at a Stickley Furniture store. But this particular sofa at Stickley's is only offered as a marriage of pre-cut leather to the frame. Plus, you only have a choice of two colors of protected leather--Henna or Taupe. The sofa in the store has the Henna colored leather. The price of the sofa is about $2,400.

What exactly is pre-cut leather, and are there any negatives to having pre-cut leather on a sofa?

I don't understand why a Hancock & Moore City Sofa is offered as a marriage of leather to frame with only two choices of leather colors...can someone explain this to me? On H & M's website, this sofa is shown in other leather colors, but at Stickley, it can only be ordered in Henna or Taupe pre-cut leather.

Does anyone happen to know what grade this pre-cut leather is?

Is about $2,400 a reasonable price for the sofa I described in pre-cut leather?

If anyone owns a "City Sofa," how comfortable have you found this sofa to be? How well do the standard seat cushions stand up over time (for example, does the foam tend to break down)?

I've never owned a leather sofa or chair, so I'm interested in knowing some of the pros and cons of leather vs. fabric upholstery and how comfortable or uncomfortable protected leather feels against your skin (I know different grades of leather feel softer than other grades).

Thank you so much for any feedback and advice. I have to make a decision very soon on buying a sofa.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I'm H&M Dealer, and the Married Cover Program is being dropped in just a few more days, it ends June 1st, the new promotional program is called "Town and Country".

Married cover means the hides are imports, and sewn overseas (typically China, or Argentina, etc.) then brought into the USA in kit form. When they have an order, they pull a kit out and upholster the piece in North Carolina at the H&M factory (Hancock and Moore is hardly unique with this program, all the majors have it). The reason there are limited colors is they have to buy these kits by the hundreds, and typically select entry-level brown hides.

There is a huge disparity in quality control on married covers, both in quality of the hide and tailoring (how its sewn). For that reason, and others, H&M is dropping the program and effective June 1, all their upholstery will be 100% USA made from scratch (Yea!)

All my leather upholstery workmanship issues I have - from ANY maker - are all married covered program items. I will not order it anymore in Bradington-Young because of those issues, and I'm glad to see H*M dispose of the program as well. Things you may not see as a consumer, really stick out in my eye as someone selling leather for over 20 years. I much prefer the sewn-to-order pieces that you order off the full-range handle, but they will be about another $ 500 in cost. The quality and workmanship on sewn-to-order is superb.

$ 2,400 is a fair price on that City Sofa from a local dealer. I sell them for $ 2,049 but there are freight charges on top of that if being shipped.

The City Sofa is a good unit, and the cushions have a lifetime warranty on them, you won't break them down.

As for protected (finished) vs unprotected (aniline)leathers, it depends on your lifestyle and placement in the room. If going into direct sunlight, you do NOT want aniline leathers, they will fade. If you eat your meals on the sofa, buy a finished leather. However, nothing beats the feel and comfort of a soft aniline hide - just don't expect it to perform like its teflon-coated.

Good luck!
Duane


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Pre-cut leather is cut and sewn like a slipcover, probably in China. It can be shipped here to be applied to a domestically procuced frame, shipped with a KD frame to be assembled here, or can be shipped as a complete sofa.

The domestic manufacturer, in this case H&M, buys the hides in quantity, in a couple of colors, at a bargain price allowing them to offer a great value.

$2400 for an H&M sofa sounds like a great price to me. H&M would not sully their reputation by selling an inferior product, you can trust that it is good quality leather.

After going through a few sofas over not more than a few years in our family room, we bought a Classic Leather sofa, chair and ottoman. That was about 14 years ago and although beginning to show the age, the set is still quite presentable despite hard daily use. I love the feel and smell of leather, not too hot, not too cold. Ours is a protected leather.


The standard foam cushions will probably hold their shape better than the spring down cushions or other upgrade cushions which tend to compress more in my experience.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

We have had the City Sofa - both the larger and the smaller love seat - for about 1 month.
It sits really great when you are in a true seated position. It is very comfortable even for older people who require a bit of support in back. I don't think it is great for sitting sideways - with your back against the arm rest - because the arm rest is relatively low, so you don't get great back support. I have to prop myself up a bit to make it work, and it is a little hard to stay up because the leather can be slippery. But it is is a great classic look, and as I said - in the normal sitting position it is a great seat. We have the standard cushions. We chose the Pecos Moss leather which is a pull-up leather.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I have purchased the City Sofa, ottoman and chair about 1 year ago. I have some interesting feedback for Mia but would rather not comment for all to see until my issues with the company have been resolved. Please feel free to contact me at my e.mail address and I will fill you in on my experience. Once the issues have been resolved, I will gladly respond to all with more specific information. I appreciate this forum to address issues such as this and wish I would have consulted this before purchasing.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the information! I don't like the idea that the leather is sewn overseas, perhaps in China.

I have to make a decision soon about choosing a sofa, as the Stickley sofa that I currently own is soooo painful to sit on...the cushions sag and I don't weigh over 135! The sofa never felt the comfortable way it did in the showroom...it was uncomfortable from day one in my home. I am shocked that I paid alot of money for quality, but the quality didn't equate with comfort. Geeze, my inexpensive sofa I used to have was much more comfortable than my Stickley. Every time I sit on this sofa, I get horrible lower back pain.

As for the H&M City Sofa, I think I'll not be completely happy since it is only 63" wide on the inside, so if I want to lay down on it, my feet will go overboard or hit the arm(I'm 5'6") unless I prop my head on a pillow. I think that I would find it annoying that I won't be able to stretch my legs out. The longer version of this sofa will be too deep for me to sit in.

So I'm not sure what I'm going to get for a sofa.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

The City Sofa is available in (4) lengths, though many H&M dealers not well-versed in the line don't know that. The two sofa lengths are:

# 9840 83" long (63" inside)
# 9844 93" long (73" inside)

This is a great sofa! For my customers that are local (Wash DC Metro) I offer a 'no fault' guarantee on pieces like this. Don't like it when it gets here, pick something else. Perhaps your local store will offer the same to you if you ask them. I think thats reasonable if they don't have it on the floor for you to try.

H&M has dropped the Married Cover program (overseas hide cut and sewn program). Everything is 100% USA made with the exception of some exposed wood frames that are imported.

If you get a City Sofa, don't upgrade the cushions. Buy the standard ones as you will find it easier to get in and out of the sofa, plus they offer more support in my opinion.

-Duane C


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I just bought this same sofa and it's still the Married Cover. The one I got is the same as they have in the showroom and it was the foam wrapped in down cushion. I hope that's the standard, and not the one Duane says to avoid. The store does have life-time warranty, but other store who I told this to doesn't believe it.
The original question concerning the grade of the City sofa was not answered and I would also like to know. I got the cavalier henna and they never asked me what grade I wanted. I just hope that it'll last me to never having to buy another sofa again!


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Hello everyone, Just wanted to let you know I am a dislocated employee of H&M along with quite a few of my coworkers due to the fact that H&M has jobs coming in from China all the time. All of these jobs will have a H&M tag attached to them with a lot of our names. But they came to the plant in plastic bags from China. We had to put our names on these jobs just like we had done them. But yet H&M will not sign the petition so we can go to school. They say we did not lose our jobs to China we lost our jobs due to the economy. Well HELLO does overseas jobs not go hand in hand with our economy. Furniture has almost all gone to China and we need to be trained in another field so we can support our families and pay our bills. As for child labor in China Jimmy Moore is probally all for it as long as it pads his pockets. He's driving a brand new corvette and I'm wondering if I can pay my house payment or put food on my table for my family. So just because the tag looks like USA made don't bank on it. H&M needs to come clean and sign The Fair Trades Act we deserve this.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

IF the allegations by the former employee is accurate, then H&M should be reported to the FTC, among others, by those who have first hand knowledge.

Here is a link that might be useful: FTC regulation of Made in USA claims


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Oops - sorry for the ungrammatical post. If the allegations ARE accurate...

Anyway, while I think it's fine to alert consumers to the possibility that goods they believe to be made in the USA might be made in China, I don't think that's all that should be done. Again, giving benefit of the doubt to H&M since I don't know the facts, but if Chinese made furniture is being passed off as US-made, and even "signed" by US employees, then those who have proof should take the appropriate action to tell govt. agencies that can act on the information.

I've bought nearly a dozen pieces of H&M furniture in the last year, and truly hope there's some misunderstanding here. Dh and I take great pains to avoid buying Chinese-made products, especially since the news came out about the tainted Heparin they exported. That hit very close to us.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I am writing in response to the remarks of the former employee of my company Hancock & Moore. I am the CEO and Co-Founder of Hancock & Moore, and I can assure you that we would never try to misrepresent ourselves. Hancock & Moore is a furniture manufacturer - not a leather tannery or leather supplier as the former employee's remarks may have suggested. We select the finest leather from the top tanneries all over the world, including Italy, Germany, South America, China and the United States. We also have eleven styles in our Town & Country Program where we have married a leather to a style and have the hides cut and sewn in China. There is a cost savings which is passed on to the customer.
Perhaps the former employee was referring to a company owned by Hancock & Moore called Randall-Allan, from which all of the products are designed by us and manufactured in China. We have never tried to hide the fact that the products in the Randall-Allan line are all imports. In fact, we do not sell them as Hancock & Moore, nor do we offer them in the Hancock & Moore line. They are a separate entity, offered at a lower price point.
The remark that we had to lay off employees because we are sending jobs to China is simply not true. We take great pride in the fact that we are still hand crafting furniture right here in the United States and have no future plans to change that. Our layoffs were a result of a downturn in business.
I also want to take a moment and address the comments made about my partner and Co-Founder Jimmy Moore. Jimmy is one of the most humble, hard working individuals I know. Anyone who knows him would tell you that. At 71 years old, he is still one of the first to arrive at the factory every single morning and still one of the last to leave. His hard work and motivation drives the people behind this company. Jimmy has spent more than fifty years in the furniture industry, and though he came from a low income family, he has worked hard and posses more knowledge of furniture than anyone I know. Hancock & Moore would not be what it is today without him. Many years of countless hours perfecting the skill of furniture manufacturing has made him a legend in our industry. I'd say he's earned the right to drive a corvette if he so chooses.
It saddens me that a former employee would find it so easy to make hurtful remarks, when we found it so hard to have to let a few people go during these trying times that our economy faces. Jimmy, along with our production manager, were stressed about having to let a few people from the Hancock & Moore family go. We truly care about our employees, and try to provide them with great opportunities. Hancock & Moore is like a family atmosphere, and we care about what is going on in each others lives. So, it was one of the most painful things we've had to do. We have been very fortunate to be able to keep our employees going strong (with the exception of a few), when we see so many of our friends in the industry closing their doors.
Finally, I would like to invite anyone to our facilities for a tour for you to see first hand the manufacturing process of our furniture. Jimmy Moore gives an excellent tour, and you will see how our furniture is made and meet in person the artisans who make it.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

handcockandmoore..... BRAVO... Well stated. You represent a fine US company that has found that a quality product is still appreciated by many American consumers. Only a truly caring management team would make this kind of a public response and risk additional rants by disgruntaled former employees. It speaks volumes about what a great company Hancock & Moore is. Stay the course and be proud of what you continue to provide, quality products at fair prices with excellant customer service and a safe and caring work environment for your employees.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Hello Mr CEO of Hancock & Moore, I clearly understand H&M is not a leather tannery nor a leather supplier and I'm not confused because as you state in your response I was one of those artisans. Maybe you would like to explain to me and everyone else reading this forum EXACTLY what is in those plastic bags that come thru H&M? Some have to be separated because they are already marked and cut and employees have to sign your signature cards and send them on thru the plant. Then some come in and go straight to the uph. dept to be put on frames with a signature card attached to this piece of furniture as if the whole job was done in the USA by H&M artisans. So Mr CEO where did these jobs comes from, who got paid to do them, and why did they not sign your signature card? Where does your married covers get put on the frames at, and what kind of label is attached to this piece of furniture? As far as your China plant Randall-Allan this has never been public knowledge I had never heard that name until after the layoff. Then when I started researching, it did not take long to put the two of you together. As for the comment everyone at H&M is family if you disown your family over the phone then thanks, but no thanks. This is how they lay their people off. A phone call on Friday evening and it's all gone with no warning, no explanation, no severance pay, no nothing. There goes your medical insurance, life insurance,401K,vacation pay & holiday bonus,your whole way of life. Some of these former employees had worked there for 15 and 20 yrs. And H&M could care less, the only time you hear from them is to let you know the cost of your cobra insurance has had an increase(like we cannot afford to pay it anyway) Anyone reading, this if you had lost your job and the CEO & part owner of the company you were laid off from admits they have married covers coming in from China, plus a plant running in China would you not feel your job had went overseas? All we want is a chance to go to school so we can support our families and get our lives back. Rockmanor thank you for the web link!


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I can't believe no response! Hello is anybody reading this?


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I bought a City Sofa from Stoma's in Baton Rouge in 2006, seemed to take 6 weeks to build and deliver. Delivered into my house on 12/2/06. I kept the signature card. Signed by: Robert (lastname?) as Marker, Debbie (Shafford?) as Cutter, Kesha(?) Decker(?) Sewer, Randy Kxxxx? as Uphosterer, Bob Baker as Trimmer, No Brass nailer (cuz' i didn't order any brass) and the Inspector's name looks like it could start with a Wy.. something.
Anyway, based on all that info. how much of my City Sofa is "made in USA" and how much would be from overseas? When did the "bagged" parts start arriving for "marriage" to the USA parts?? All-in-all I love the sofa. Wish I had bought one that didn't "sit" as conventional, good posture style. This is a great sofa for my aging parents who like a firm yet comfortable "good posture" seating. I find if I choose to slouch it doesn't fit your lower back as well as some designs that I sat in after purchase. Some designs have a lower back, kinda small cussion as well as the part that your upper back hits. This design tends to "fill in" your back better.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I was working there in 2006 and years before that. There was never a marker there named Robert so changes are your sofa came in from China already marked,cut and probaly sewn. Alot of times the guys in leather recieving would sign the marking line. May have been sewn in Hickory but more than likely shipped in and married to a frame in Hickory. But you got a good old H&M signature card stating the entire sofa was all made by H&M artisans. Maybe some of the artisans in China but not in the USA>


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Its no secret that H&M does some covers in China, but only in Document and Cavalier leathers within the Town and Country program. Customers have choices, and they can elect to save money buying within that program or pay more to have it 100% made in Hickory, NC.

Sorry you lost your job, Susan2, but the reality of it is there are 10,000 more products in your local WalMart coming from China than the few covers from Hancock and Moore in that one small grouping.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Yes you are probally correct in your statement about 10,000 things at Walmart coming in from China. But the big difference between Walmart and H&M is at Wally World you get what you pay for, and they have a made in China label or imported tag on their items. Consumers aren't paying $1000's of dollars for a made in the USA leather sofa group and being decieved ! ! !


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Be careful what you say in a public forum, as to accuse a maker such as H&M of deception and fraud will open you to a lawsuit for slander. Forum ID's can be traced to the real person relatively easy. While you may wish to damage the reputation of the company because you were laid off, the facts will not support your accusations.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I feel compelled to offer support to Mr. Hancock and the CEO of Hancock and Moore furniture. My 1982, leather H & M sofa is similar to 'The City Sofa.' It has outlasted 27 years of hard use from 3 growing sons, 3 dogs (who DID use our sofa), and finally, 3 grandchildren. It shows a little wear ("distressed-looking" arm and 1 cushion, and two untufted buttons), but is worth its weight in gold. I couldn't recommend it enough.
The reason I discovered this forum today (and have decided to respond), is because I was searching for who, or how to contact whomever can advise me about how to return our wonderful sofa to NC for recovering. We don't want a new one...we want to keep THIS sofa for the rest of our lives.
However, I saw the question that was debating whether or not to purchase a Hancock & Moore, or Stickley sofa (I think), and was distracted enough to stop my research long enough to advise the original writer. This is my answer!


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Its not going to be practical from an economic standpoint to rework your faithful H&M piece. By the time you source leather and recover it, you could have purchased a new H&M sofa for same money. Even though H&M will replace your cushion cores at no charge, the square foot price of leather coupled with labor will easily push it beyond the price of new. Better to donate your sofa to a charitable organization (get a tax write-off for $ 500 or so), and select a new H&M piece for the next 27 years. Good luck.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Time to stop blaming manufacturer who are trying to stay
in business.
Blame the people who put the no tariff laws in to place.
Hancock&Moore is a quality company


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Just to let everyone know my accusations were facts. H & M were investigated by the federal government and found guilty! ! ! So there you go Mr the collector I may not have had the proof in my hands but every word I typed was the truth and the truth always comes out!


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Susan2, are you sure you were not let go at H&M because of mental issues?


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Depending where you live 9 times out of 10 you can have a sofa reupholstered for less than paying H&M MSRP. I know because I have worked both sides of the fences!


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

This is in response to "thecolletor". How immature for you to imply that "susan2" has mental issues because she/he brought H&M's dirty dealings out in the open. These accusations are true. It has been a well known fact that employees at the plants would take the signature cards using multiple pens with different ink and assign their names to it.

As far as tracking the person making these accusations, good luck. I understand you have been trying for some time to find out who is posting these blogs and have been very unsuccessful. Yes, we know who you are "thecollector". You are the same person who has total control over H&M, even the owners/CEOs. You have many family members employed there, did any of these "employees" get the infamous Friday call and were told they were no longer employed at H&M? Of course not, every one of them still has a job here.

Even though I still work here, I do know more than "a few" employees as stated by one of the CEOs, were permantely laid off. "A few" suggests a handful, I know for a fact that it was at least 30 employees and it was by a phone call. Also, this was not due to a downturn in business. A large majority of these jobs did go overseas and has been for quite some time. Did the CEOs and supervisors take a cut in pay to help us that are still here? Is H&M still paying for these higher ups health care insurance while our health insurance skyrockets? In all probability I am sure the answer to these questions are no! Most of us are barely making ends meet with the pay we get and having to pay for our own health and family insurance. To top it off the company has stopped matching our retirement benefits. Was this across the board with every employee or just us the actual laborers? Our hours have also been cut from 4 (9) hour days to 4 (8) hour days. Do these supervisors and higher-ups still get their salary? I also know for a fact that several people were brought in to replace these loyal and long term employees that were laid off with other people for a lot less pay and one in particular that was brought in as a replacement had been fired 2 times. So if the federal government can be brought in to investigate, maybe OSHA would like to come in too and do some random drug testing. Of course if that were to happen, then one supervisor for certainty would get the boot. But then again "thecollector" has family ties to this individual too and their flagrant drug use has been overlooked for many years. If you threaten slander here, a simple drug test would prove me right.

"Susan2" as for the school question, it has been approved. In fact it was approved on 12/19/2008 and H&M did not have the courtesy of telling all of you that were laid off. There is a certain deadline for you to apply for this benefit, so I suggest you go immediately to the NCESC and sign up for you only have until this deadline to go back to school. Again, H&M has pulled a dirty dealing and not informed their former employees that this was available. I think it is a sad state when you work for a company for so long this is the treatment you get. I am just waiting for the "call" when someone tells me that I no longer work there. Hopefully I do not get the same treatment that many of you already laid off did, but then again, I wouldnt be surprised.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Nice try, I don't work for H&M in any way, shape or form. Nor am I related to anyone that works there, either. However, I know the industry, and I know the law. Be careful what you post in a public forum as 'facts'.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Thank You Concerned Citizen, some people on here are clueless as to what goes on inside H&M and other furniture plants. They want to come on here and make their remarks to try and keep people from speaking out. If the little people inside don't speak up for themselves no one else will and the public only knows what the OWNERS/CEO'S wants them to hear. Thank you for your advice and I am signed up to go to school due to the FACT that China dealings had a dramatic increase from H&M from 2007 to 2008. And YES mr collector I have the proof in my hand from US DEPT. OF LABOR where H&M was investigated and it is a proven fact! !


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I see no proof given anywhere about this since you claim the proof exists where is it? Please show us or give us instructions how to find it since it should be a matter of public record.

From what I have read H&M has some leather hides sent from China for certain applications. Also the company laid off a few employees is not shocking considering the economy's current state.

I'm sorry to anyone who lost a job or feels their benefits have been cut by any employeer but H&M is not alone in this.

But what if any of this has to do with the H&M City sofa I have no clue.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Holy Cow! I am looking for a quality sofa and thought about Natuzzi. Well, after reading enough complaints about the poor quality of their frame construction, I bailed on them and heard about the quality and craftsmanship of Hancock & Moore. I went to their website and was quite impressed with their products and chose the City Sofa as a favorite to buy.
Now, I came across all of this and wonder if there is anything of quality still made in the US? I refuse to buy China crap unless I have to. Come on America, we were once a hard working skilled nation until this whole greed thing to get it made cheaper moved everything to China. I would gladly pay more for a product that was quality made entirely in the US.
With this economic mess going on, I say the hell with all these foreign countries, we have people sleeping in the streets here needing jobs. Say no to all this big Corporate BS that has ruined out county and have companies like Hancock & Moore who I am sure would rather have a completely US made product come out of their shops if the market were straightened out to where things made economic sense.
Start listening to what Congressman Ron Paul is saying... which is the truth about what the hell is going on in this country. We have to rise up and start raising our voices to take this country back. Don't count too much on Obama, it is rather apparent already...he is part of the game too.
So, where in the heck do I get a good quality completely US made leather sofa?


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Here's what is happening with this thread:

1) You have a couple of dis-enfranchised H&M employees who were laid off and now wish to extract their pound of flesh by attempting to damage the company reputation via this thread. Don't be naive enough to fail to recognize their vengeance. Layoffs can and do occur across all industries - it happens when customer orders slow down.

2) The Hancock and Moore label is made in Hickory NC. Within that label there are two leather series that come from a Chinese Tannery, they are Cavalier and Document. If you don't want Chinese leathers, avoid those two. Everything else in the H&M line is domestic leather (USA/Canada), South American, New Zealand, or European. The finest and most expensive hides are from Europe. The German and Swiss hides are typically the best.

3) Hancock and Moore owns a line called 'Randall Allen' (not branded at H&M). This is a 100 % Made-in-China product line, same as Bradington Youngs 'Seven Seas' collection. If you have a store tell you that is the same as Hancock and Moore - its not.

4) Hancock and Moore owns their own frame plant. The vast majority of their frames are made in that plant. A few of the highly-caved, occasional chair frames are imported. Ask your dealer if that's important to you.

5) H&M is considered in the trade to be the best of the North Carolina companies to work for. They pay higher wages than other upholstery manufacturers but also demand more of their employees as a result of that. They are not very tolerant of mediocre work. To work at H&M requires a willingness to do your job well, and efficiently. They are also the only manufacturing facility in NC Upholstery operations that has a full-time nurse in the plant available to all employees at no charge for regular immunizations and over-the-counter meds, etc.

I am not a Hancock & Moore employee, but personally know many of the executives there that own and run the business. They are a fine, upstanding company that builds a superior product and have resisted the wholesale run to China as so many other companies have done. I've been to many upholstery companies over the years and as of this writing I consider H&M to be the finest maker of mainstream upholstery products in the USA.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Thank you! I hope we can all come to this board solely for the purpose it is intended. I, too, believe H&M makes a superior USA product!


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I own a number of H&M pieces, including a desk chair that is 17 years old and an Austin sofa and matching tilt chair/ottoman. The sofa and and chair/ottoman have ultra down cushions (an option the gives a very soft yet supportive feel). After 4 years I felt that the cushions were in need of additional fill to bring the down back to the original fullness and feel. To make a long story short, Boyles Furniture of N.C. sent a truck to take the pieces back to H&M where new cushions were placed in the seats and backs.
There were no charges from Boyles or H&M to me. The furniture is great and I will be a customer of H&M for my next leather purchase. This level of customer service by both companies is excellant and difficult to find.

I think the disgruntled employee(s) who have posted here are victims of a buying public that asks about price before quality, is not interested in supporting US manufacturers (such as H&M) and does not purchase furniture with the intent of using it for many years. So even fine companies like H&M need to find ways to stay in business (like cutting and sewing some hides in low cost labor areas of the world). However they could move all operations to China or Mexico or other places where their costs would be less as many manufacturers have, but they are staying the course in Hickory, N.C. and saving the jobs of hundreds of employees (again unlike many of their competitors who have moved to offshore locations or have simply gone out of business). So I for one will stay loyal to H&M and hope that they will ride out this economic bust of a market and continue as a fine example of American craftsmanship in a very difficult time for US manufacturers.
I hope the former employees come to understand the realities and difficulties that US manufacturers face in competing with the rest of the world.
I would suggest watching the movie "Slumdog Millionaire" as an example to see the conditions of workers in the other parts of the world that are competing for their jobs. Medical plans and 401k accounts are not something that find their way into the wages that are often less in a month than the US worker makes in a day.
I hope the displaced workers do go back to school and acquire new skills that will give them a competitive advantage over the workers of the world, because only then can they really compete and hope to retain the pay and benefits they feal they deserve.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I purchased an "easy chair"upolstered with leather less than three years ago. I complained about the quality of the leather in the chair and the ottoman. I sent both back to the factory and waited for three months for the repaired items to be returned. I paid over two thousand dollars for this chair and expected quality. I* have no children living at home, and I am the only one using this chair. The leather on the arm rest on the right side is worn through, with the stuffing exposed, the armrest on the left side is discolored and almost worn through. I bought this chair because it was made in the USA, paid a premium price and got junk. Beware of their quality workmanship, the chair was initially sent back because of the dye coming off the leather. It took three months for repairs, I got the chair back, and again the dye was coming off the ottoman and the chair arms. I felt defeated, as I did not want to send the chair back a second time and wait another three months. After two years the arm rest on the chair wore through. BEWARE of leather goods constructed by Hancock & Moore.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

It really burns me up to see people come on this form and threaten posters with a law suit; then claim they have no connection to the furniture maker that is being discussed. Doesn't pass the smell test.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I need help - I recently purchased 2 HM recliners - it's only been a few months but so far I really like them, though we have had an issue already with the cushions. The cushions we got were not the same ones that the chairs had in the store. But they are replacing them. After months of contemplating purchasing the Journey sofa & bringing home leather samples, all Class 2 (document and cavalier) we finally made the purchase this past Fri. night - bought the Journey Sofa in Cavalier Hunter Green - so excited-put the required 25% down and was told it would be 4 mos till it would be delivered. I was willing to wait that long because this is the sofa and color we really want. Unfortunately, today I got a call from the store and they said the leather I picked can only go on the City Sofa. I can only chose from Document she told me-otherwise if I want the Cavalier it will cost me $$$$$$ - I can't believe I find out after 2 mos of shopping at this store. I feel like it's bait and switch.
Does anyone know where I can get the Journey Sofa with the Cavalier Hunter Green without paying out the wazoo!!! This shouldn't be so confusing and misleading. Now i need to stop the transaction and start the whole process over. Up until reading this no one at the store I've been working with ever mentioned this "married" issue of the leater and the sofa's. I'm so disappointed


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Wow, reading this thread has been very eye-opening & disappointing for me. For a very brief moment, I thought that maybe, just maybe, there was an American company "doing right by" their employees, while providing a high-quality product to those with the means to purchase it, which was another reason I'd recently chosen H&M to make the sofas, sectionals & chairs required by several members of my family after we move into several new condominiums, only to see what is posted here.
At this point, I'm not sure what to do. I've spent a considerable amount of time online, searching for quality contemporary/transitional-style furniture that will last for some time, with H&M's offerings being the only ones (so far) that have really grabbed my attention, but, I don't want to support a company that treats its employees so poorly, either.

That said, are there any other companies out there that make solid wood frames, etc., for their furniture, in my preferred style, right here in the US, Canada or Europe?

I've looked at most, if not all of the names recommended by many on this forum(BTW, thanks for introducing me to some very nice makers.), but, haven't quite found what I'm looking for.
The artisan/bespoke route is an option I'm considering, too.

I really appreciate any & all help the other forum members can provide.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Just as a point of information:

I Googled the combination of "Hancock & Moore" and "US Department of Labor" and didn't turn up any results whatsoever that indicated HM had ever been investigated, let alone, found guilty by the Labor Department, as repeatedly claimed by susan2, the (alleged) former employee of HM.

IMHO, my search should have turned up something if her allegation had any truth to it. For that reason, I would view the rest of her assertions with considerable scepticism.

It's up to people to decide what brand of furniture they wish to purchase, but I certainly wouldn't base the decision solely on what someone anonymously posts on an Internet forum. There are many reasons why posters might be motivated to fabricate, including wishing to disparage a competitor's products to gain a competitve advantage for their own. Is that what happened here? Who knows?

The old adage "Don't believe everything you read" has never been more true than today.

.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I just want to say,we bought our H&M sofa a few yrs ago
and we love it! Yes, it is in the Document leather.
It feels like butter. And the color is a dark rich brown
reddish tones. I looked to see how the married leather was matched. I cannot even tell. Looks great. And Is So very comfortable. Nicest sofa I ever had. And most comfortable.
We will never go back to cloth upholstery again.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I also bought the town and country leather from hancock and moore. I am very happy with my purchase also. I have followed this site for over a year and I only believe a little of what I read. I agree with louisshanks duane was not right. I have not seen anything poor about my furniture. It is still really top quality.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Wow! I, too was interested in the City Sofa, but after reading this forum have decided to look not only for another sofa, but for another manufacturer. No doubt H&M makes a fine product, but so does Leathercraft, Smith Brothers, Taylor-King and Councill to name a few. Many of us hard working tax paying Americans are waking up to the fact that offshore manufacturing and components are killing our country, and flooding us with products where there's no control over quality. Why import any hides from China? Is it because they are now the new Italian leather? No, it's because they are cheap, which is the very thing we're trying to get away from by buying American. I'd rather shell out a few more pesos for an entirely American sourced and made piece of furniture. Even my sad, old, tired butt is too good to be parked on a Chinese cut and sewn hide!


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

Leaving aside overlapping issues of ownership, which of the brands you mention do you believe does not sell any hides imported from China? For that matter, H&M sells Italian hides - if you're willing to pay for them. (But if your objection is to manufacturers using hides from offshore manufacturers, Italy is out as well.)


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

We purchased the City Sofa and Loveseat from a dealer in MD in May, 2008. It has been a complete nightmare. We picked Hancock & Moore because we were told it would hold up and always look perfect...nothing could be further from the truth. Hancock and Moore did replace the cushions but the problem continues. The fabric Diamond/Toffee that was suggested and the maize cord welting never should have been put on the sofa. From the first day the welting started fraying and the covers were replaced without the welting. The problem since then is that the covers twist on the cushions so that the couch ALWAYS looks old and broken down. I fluff, push, pull, rotate, etc... The back cushions are never lined up correctly...if you look at the picture for City Sofa and then look at ours, you would never imagine it is the same. We were told by the dealer that the fabric should not have been chosen for a high traffic room. We were perfectly clear on where these sofas would be. We paid a premium for these sofas thinking they would last for years...3 years later we are ready to replace. Hancock and Moore replaced the cushions 1 time and we were told that was it. We paid over $6,600 for these 2 pieces and they have never been correct. We are ready to try to sell them and replace and we would never think of buying Hancock and Moore.


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RE: Hancock & Moore leather 'City Sofa' -- I have questions

I know this is an old thread, but I would like to comment on a few things.

It is just not possible to compete today unless you are able to maximize all market forces. We grow the cows here in Texas, but leathers are tanned in other places, China being the cheapest. The tanning process does not make leather cheap.

I understand why H and M has to do what they do to survive, and emphasize that everything else is done by their craftsmen. I am about to purchase a Married recliner, either from my local dealer (Louise Shanks....90% of all my furniture is from them) or Duane.

Actually it is probably from Duane, who notably has changed his position on married covers,since his price is $200 less than what Louise Shanks is charging.

And I do not think Susan has "mental issues" she is just an unfortunate soul who has been caught up in market forces.

If it makes her feel any better, I have a PhD from a top University but am grateful for my little job teaching Junior College since my industry has also been devastated by the economy.


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