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fedupwithfloorinfl

Armstrong laminate popping & cracking...HELP!

FedUpWithFloorInFL
10 years ago

I have read a thread on this forum about this problem and I have been dealing with the same thing for a YEAR now. Armstrong has denied my claim twice and has sent their tech reps out here to perform tests and take back a sample of the flooring for testing. They have ultimately determined (no surprise) that it is not a manufacturer defect, citing that their warranty does not cover "noise issues". My installer who is also the retailer insists his installation was properly done and he has never seen anything like this before. I am considering hiring a flooring inspector, but that is about $400 plus any lab testing they do. I am beyond frustrated with this floor and it has to come up..... I can't live with it anymore.. it's getting worse actually. I am almost to the point of just giving up and bearing the cost of a new floor myself. I have about 2200 square feet of this horrible stuff. It's actually a very beautiful floor, until you walk on it!!...The only thing Armstrong said about the installation was the lack of appropriate transition mouldings, but my home is so open and the rooms are so large there was no way transition boards could have been installed. Besides, it wouldn't have made any difference in the problem. Even in the smaller areas and rooms where there are transition mouldings it is doing the same thing. If anyone has been able to accomplish anything with Armstrong on this problem, please contact me. I would very much appreciate some advice or input.

Comments (10)

  • jfcwood
    10 years ago

    I actually just read that other thread, wondering why it popped up again after many years.
    I'm curious. Did you buy the material from the company that installed it?
    I can see your logic about the lack transition strips being immaterial. I sell wood, not laminate, but I do recommend laminate to people when I think it might be more practical than what I'm showing them. If floating laminate flooring is supposed to have regularly spaced transition strips, I would have to figure that when I recommend it. Did your installer mention this before proceeding?
    I have seen people in similar predicaments with an intractable wood floor problem and my advice is to get your own inspection.
    Thanks and good luck.

  • FedUpWithFloorInFL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thank you so much for the reply. Yes, I purchased the product from the company who installed it, and no, he did not mention that this could be a problem. He is a small business owner and does his own installations. He was highly recommended to me as someone who would do an excellent job. He actually did a lot of other work for me, painted the entire inside of the house with new baseboard moldings, and repaired and painted all the indoor doors, and many other things. This house was a foreclosure and in bad shape when we purchased it. He did an awesome job with everything else so I will really hate it if it is determined that he did something wrong on the floor installation. Anyway, thanks again for your response to my post. I will consider the inspector..... at least I will know for certain where the problem lies.

  • glennsfc
    10 years ago

    Since the Armstrong tech reps didn't try and pin the problem on the installer (happens often), then I'd say they know they'd be foolish if they did. However, their claim that... "it is not a manufacturer defect, citing that their warranty does not cover "noise issues"..." is ludicrous. It may be as simple as a design flaw or may be a defect with the run of material from which your product came.

    I think you're going to have to hire an expert and certified flooring inspector and then take the inspection report and negotiate with Armstrong. Also, scour the internet for possible class action suits connected with the product and noise issues.

    You want to avoid going to court, but that may be what you may have to do, should the inspection place blame on product design or a production flaw. Unfortunately, since your dealer/installer is an "agent" of the manufacturer, he may get enjoined in any legal action you may take...not necessarily so, but I know from experience that could happen.

  • GreenDesigns
    10 years ago

    Wait a sec here. You purchased the flooring from an installer who also did handyman work around your house and painted stuff for you? That doesn't sound like an authorized retailer, or a flooring specialist. It sounds like a jack of all trades, not a retailer. And he didn't install the mandated transition strips? That violates the manufacturers installation instructions. I wouldn't be so quick to think that the manufacturer was at fault at all given those details. What's your subfloor? How was it leveled? What size rooms are you talking about?

  • FedUpWithFloorInFL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks for the replies. I am seriously considering hiring an independent floor inspector. My installer is supportive of me doing that, so he is pretty confident his installation was done properly, and also confident the transition strips are NOT the problem here.

    I called a local carpet store today and asked them if they have an inspector they use. They did have one they gave me his name and number. I may make some more calls and get other names / estimates.

    At this point I just want to know what went wrong with this floor. My husband is ready to just bite the bullet and replace it all after the first of the year. I searched for some type of class action against Armstrong and all I can find is stuff about asbestos / mesophelioma (sp?).

    Re: transition strips. They would have done no good for this problem as the popping and cracking occurs all over the house in many areas, large areas and small areas... den, bedrooms, kitchen, etc. The more the floor is walked on in different areas, the worse the cracking becomes.

    Honestly though, I am not totally convinced that there is not an installation issue here, just not sure what it would be. Like I said, I just want to know.

  • glennsfc
    10 years ago

    Although the noise may not have anything to do with the lack of mandated transition strips...that fact is being used to deny your claim. However, I have seen (heard) these noise issues with small square foot installations from other manufacturers of similar products, so the problem could be the result of a particular product design and not the size of the installed floor. I wouldn't want to live with a snap, crackle, pop floor either.

    Another thing to know here is what type of foam underlay was specified (if any) and was it used? You have to use everything the manufacturer requires.

    Good luck with your replacement floor.

  • FedUpWithFloorInFL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Armstrong's underlay was used... Quiet Step or something like that.

    I just got off the phone with a floor specialist / consultant / inspector. I like him.... he asked if my installer would be willing to meet him here and together they can take up a portion of the floor and determine what can be done. He said he is not a "finger pointer", but a problem solver. He said he won't write a report at this point, and that 80% of problems like this are, unfortunately, installation related, but that there is always the possibility that there is a milling issue with the product. I told him my installer has been very cooperative during this entire process, and he is the one who contacted the Armstrong rep when all this started and got the ball rolling, so I think he would agree to be involved. We will see. I did not know that a floor could be taken up and re-installed, if that becomes necessary.

    I am going to wait until after the first of the year to pursue this course of action. Gives me hope though, that there could be a fix without replacing the entire floor. I told him if the floor has to come up, I will put tile in my kitchen / hallway / laundry room and carpet in the master bedroom. I will of course expect to pay for that. Live and learn....

    Thanks again for all the replies..... much appreciated. I am hopeful that something can be done.

  • patriceny
    10 years ago

    I had a Quick Step laminate floor for years. I loved that floor. It withstood scratching and denting and I thought it looked great.

    I did have some popping and crackling. Most of the time it was around the perimeter of a room, and was also around the time of temp or humidity changes. My hunch is the floor would get sort-of stuck to the baseboard and wouldn't expand/contract smoothly until you walked on it and unstuck it. So I could go days without hearing anything, but on other days I'd hear a fair bit of it depending on a few different factors (temp, humidity, how much I'd been walking around that day, etc...)

    Is your noise problem happening all the time? Or is it worse at certain times? Is it only around the perimeter?

    The noise issue never really bothered me. But I'm weird, I like to pop bubble wrap too. :) So on days I knew it needed to be "unstuck", I'd just walk the perimeter and pop it, and then all would be quiet for awhile again.

  • FedUpWithFloorInFL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Actually, the popping and cracking is not around the perimeter at all... it is on the traffic areas and the more we walk on it (it's been down a year now), the worse it is getting. Now, I did notice the last time we had the heat on, which here in Florida is a rarity, but we did have it on last winter in January, and it didn't seem to be quite as bad as it is now. I keep my A/C at 73-74 degrees. It does seem that cooler temperatures make it worse. When Armstrong came to do their testing / evaluation, they did a humidity reading and that seemed to be OK.
    They also checked around the perimeter and there was the proper spacing allowance.

    I don't know.... I just know this annoying floor is coming up.... it's just a matter of who is going to pay for it..... probably me......