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what went wrong with this tile job?
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Posted by squigs (My Page) on Wed, Nov 4, 09 at 9:06
| My bathroom was put in about five years ago. within the year, I noticed the threshold had a crack, then noticed a hairline crack in the grout the whole length of the room, all the way up to the jacuzzi tub. Recently the grout chipped big time in the middle of the room, and there are hairline cracks all over. The edge of the tub is cracked as well. I spoke to the guy at the tile store who installed it, and he thinks that the weight of the water from the tub caused it. The tub does get used almost every day. But they tiled the tub too. If that is the issue, shouldn't they have taken that into account? He is coming out to look, but I'd like to know what you think.
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| Maybe nothing is 'wrong' here; that is to say you have a wood house that seasonally changes shape, a jacuzzi tub that adds to movement in the floor and tub surround sysytem whenever it is full of water and in the on mode. Maintenance to grout in bathrooms is something we can expect to have to do from time to time with tile jobs over wood members. |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| A continuous crack in the grout can sometimes telegraph the location of a seam in the plywood underneath. So, was the floor tiled directly over plywood? How thick is the structural floor beneath the tile? "Typical" structural includes plywood subfloor and plywood underlayment, but not cement board. If cement board was used, grout can crack anywhere IF the cement board was not bedded to the subfloor/underlayment with thinset. Not having thinset between the cement board and the plywood can allow the cement board to flex as it is walked upon. Over time...months, years, the grout can eventually fail. |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| Maintenance to grout in bathrooms is something we can expect to have to do from time to time with tile jobs over wood members. I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree. If the installation is done properly, (i.e. all sources of movement taken into account and addressed) there should be no more "grout maintenence" necessary than tile set over concrete or mud. I'd be looking at several things, most of which Mongo hit on. I'd also be curious if the cement board seams were taped with mesh tape. Also how much plywood is under the tile, and in what thicknesses. Are there any layers OTHER than plywood underneath the tile? If so, how many, as well as composition and thickness of each layer? Also, what do you have for joisting? Specifically, the dimensions of the joists, the on center spacing, and the unsupported length? |
post script
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| One other thing, especially if this was done directly over plywood (it's not yet been established that this was over cement board), what thinset did they use? It could be that simple. If this WAS directly over plywood, though, that opens up all new questions, as well. I'll go into it only if I find out that's the case. |
plywood and ditra
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| Thanks for the responses. The floor was laid over 3/4 inch plywood subfloor and ditra mat. This is the top floor of a split level home, if that means anything. |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| What about Bill's question about the joist structure below? If there's too much deflection for ceramic tile, even Ditra wouldn't stop it from cracking. |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| At the very least, I have a feeling water might be getting at the wood under the tubdeck, causing it to swell, which would explain the cracking at the corner of the tubdeck. I'm surprised about the floor, though, especially if there's Ditra under there. Let see what comes out for the joisting specs. |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| I might also add that...on the curb, lots of "Hack" installers will use pressure treated lumber. It sounds good, but in reality, it needs to be Kiln Dried lumber as the PT stuff tends to twist, swell and shrink, causing the exact kinds of cracks I see in the photo. Best of all worlds would have been to use bricks to frame the curb. You might ask them what they used.... |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| sorry for the delay in the response. I can tell you the joists are 16" on center. Also, the lumber used was definitely kiln dried. We have just ripped our kitchen down to the studs for a remodel, and because our house is a split level we were able to actually see the tub frame through the kitchen wall. There is no water in there and the wood was not wet or swelled. I can tell you that I also just noticed a hollow sound under one of the floor tiles near the tub. Put together, I don't know if this means the tile installer did a bad job or if it's just the kind of thing that happens. He still hasn't come out to see it. We've been very preoccupied with the kitchen. As I said, they are a very reputable local company that has been in business for a long time, and I hope they will fix it right. What do you think can and should be done? advice, please? |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| I'm bumping up hoping you guys might still help me with opinions. |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| Even "Reputable" tile installers can fall victim to NOT "burning" the backs of tiles when putting them in. The morter can be the $5 a bag variety.....or it can be as simple as not having proper support under the tile job. It's difficult to say unless we know more about the substrate and the materials used for the job. |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| Its hard for me to say because cracking is normal out here, we live on a fault line and everything is over concrete that cracks as well. the thinset should have been a flexible variety, that allows for a bit of movement. considering this stuff ranges somewhere in the $20 and up per bag, i wouldnt be surpised if a cheaper thinset was used. also on the floor there should have been a anti-fracture membrane used in addition to the flexible thinset. this will absorb most of, if not all of the movement. the bottom line is,. unless you can contact who was responsible for the floor going in, there no way to tell whats wrong and how to fix it without tearing it out. while it doesnt look that bad on the surface, it could be a disaster underneath, or visa versa. |
RE: what went wrong with this tile job?
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| Okay, I'll wait and see what he says. One last question. We never sealed the grout. Could that have anything to do with it? |
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