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susanlynn2012

Help please on flooring installation/selection for home office

susanlynn2012
15 years ago

FIRST, short summary and then long details that can be skipped if it will prevent a reader from responding or they can read the details to learn more.

I had made up my mind on what I wanted on my floors (after the 18.5 year old wall to wall beige carpet is removed) but due to the store's change in mind on how they were to install my floor and how much extra it would cost to do it their way, I had other installers give me quotes and now I am confused on what to do and I am hoping professionals or members with knowledge can steer me in the right direction in what is best to do to get this job done. My light beige carpet in my home office is dirty again after 2 weeks and again I am having it cleaned tomorrow night. I hate cleaning it every few weeks.

My questions are if I need to seal the concrete floor first if I am to glue down the floor or is floating the floor OK with all my equipment and furniture that I have that I describe below. I do not want a problem in the future but I did have hardwood engineered floors here in two foyer areas for 18 years that never buckled up until my central air conditioner failed and squirted water everywhere that caused a flood on the floor inside the utility room and outside the utility room onto the Bruce Oak Engineered wood floor that is now all ruined. Do you recommend I go with the thicker 1/2" Engineered 5" wide plank by BR-111 or the 3/8th thick with the 3.125 MM wear layer on top by BR-111 or another brand or go with a 12 MM laminate that can float or go with a Mirage Lock Floor? Would it really be so bad if one day I sell my place and there are patches of light under my furniture that I will not be able to move around due to how heavy they are? I only get sun in front of my desk while the rest of my home office two rooms have no windows. My family room only has a wall of windows on one side but my sofa in 10.5 years has not faded and is still the same beige/taupe leather color. The installers all seem to try to push me away from Brazilian Cherry except for one installer. One wanted me to buy Lyptus Fire telling me it is stained and red like I want and will not change colors but I read on their site that it gets darker also. Another told me I would be happier with Santos Mahogany that has less of a color change. Another one wanted me to go with a natural oak wood telling me that would be best in my situation for resale so I would not have a different color under my furniture. The Amendoim could be nice since it does not have a dramatic color change but I fell in love with the Brazilian Cherry color of the samples I have here that rivkadr sent me.

OK here are the facts for more detail:

I had decided a while back on the BR-111 Brazilian Cherry Triangulo Engineered wood and got a good price from a local store that was close to an Internet Price except I have to pay sales tax which I am OK with. The installers they sent over here gave me a good price also and I was ready to buy everything (glue, flooring, felt for the bottom of the chairs, etc) from the store until the store owner told me the installers changed their mind and instead of moving the heavy cabinets a little bit away from the floor and pulling up sections of the carpet (is on tackles on the edges but the pad and carpet are not glued down over the slab) and gluing down the floor and moving the heavy 42" wide 5 drawer Hon putty cabinets back on top, they want everything out of the two room home office (dining room and living room) and everything out of the family room (very easy to do since I have light furniture in there and not much but a sofa, recliner, small TV stand, TV, and end tables and coffee table that are very light weight glass with cherry legs). Then they have to seal the floor and I have to buy an expensive sealer and wait a day to put everything back. So the stress of emptying four 5-Drawer 42" wide Hon heavy putty cabinets, two 4-drawer 42" wide putty cabinets, five 2-drawer 30" wide Hon putty file cabinets, my 72" wide Cherry Credenza, my big 72" wide cherry desk, my small computer cherry wood desk that is not attached, the two roll out drawers (desk is easy to move since I paid more to have the pieces that are not attached), two supply cabinets in a putty color, has me stressed out. I had thought I could empty the cabinets but not move the furniture and then replace everything at once when the cabinets are moved back. If I need to move everything out of here, I have a garage and a backyard with a patio to put the furniture on.

So I had other estimates when I just wanted the job done to see what should be done about my slab floor and a few others want to move everything out of here also but do one room at a time and glue down the floor with no sealer. One installer wants me to rent a POD to put all my furniture in until the job is done and that is my responsibility to move it in and out of the home.

Another installer wants to float the floor and had me go to his wholesaler to like other woods telling me he feels I should go with a 5" wide oak or pecan natural wood so one day when I move my furniture I do not have patches of light spaces but agrees that the Brazilian Cherry looked wonderful in my home office an my family room with the beige furniture and glass tables with putty legs. The natural oak or maple clashes with the tile I chose and the file cabinets. I need a little bit darker. Right now I have a beige rug that is darker than the natural wood and it is hard to keep clean. I actually like the Auburn Maple but everyone tells me it is too boring.

The other installer wants to float a laminate floor and tried steering me back to the Bruce Park Avenue Makore or Pradoo Laminate I was looking at. I wonder how sturdy this will be with all the furniture on top of the floor?

Then the installers at the store came back to me and wants me to buy the more expensive floating Mirage Lock floor from the local store they work with (Mirage Lock comes in only maple or oak ... now the store's price is a lot more than the Internet price versus the other product was a good price) or the Mullican floating floor (sliced cut Brazilian Cherry rather than the sawn face cut of the BR-111 or the Hartco Valenza collection I was looking at) that I can get much cheaper on line but prefer to buy from a local dealer if I get a reasonable price.

They want to float the floor and say they can move the furniture a little at a time their old way and save me in installation despite the extra cost of the materials. Another installer says they have to move all the furniture out of here anyway and get rid of the carpet to see how level the concrete floor is first.

Hence, I had a tile guy here today and the other day for estimates and today I went to Lowe's and bought the Rialto Beige tile and the grout (three sanded grouts to ask an installer which of the three he feels will be best with my tile: Mushroom, Marble Beige, or Parchment). Hence, I am ready for the tile for the two foyer areas but now what do I do with the two room home office floor and the family room floor? I want the damage out of the foyer areas NOW. It has been too long. I have engineered Bruce Oak very thin veneer glued down there that got damaged from the water leak from my central air conditioner/heating system failing a few months ago. The wood floor is discolored, warped and has buckled up. I was able to pull up a piece of this 18.5 year old floor that came up in veneered pieces of and the cement floor looked dry to me despite my townhouse complex being built on the preserved wetlands about 18.5 years ago.

OK, this is long but I am stressed that the project is not getting done since everyone is trying to talk me out of the Brazilian Cherry floors telling me I will regret the decision if I move. I am open to anything that will work at this point. I even thought the Amendoim samples looked nice with my furniture but worry if it will be too knotty since I can't see a floor in person.

So should I float the floor with heavy furniture on top of it? Should I choose an easier locking floor? Would laminate look cheap in my professional home office that has clients visiting? Would it be best to seal the floor that I really feel is dry despite my townhouse being built on the wetlands since the glued down foyer engineered Bruce hardwood floors never came up in 18 years?

I just want this job done ASAP and I am tired of not knowing what to do.

Comments (10)

  • jerry_t
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You have a ton of questions and I will do my best to address them, I also have AADD so if I start to ramble and jump back and forth just overlook that :).

    We need to simplify this more because there are certain issues you can't change..... being on a slab and the weight issues. Any slab has to be reasonably flat and dry, but in your case it needs to be almost dead flat and dry.

    We are supposed to always check slabs for vapor emissions that can go unoticed when there is carpet over top that allows the slab to breath and release moisture without any problems. You have an 18yr. old glued down wood floor that has exhibited no problems, in my view that is as good an indicator one is going to get..... so we'll just say you are dry.

    I don't know how many sq.ft. is involved but it takes some space for an installer to check the slab for flatness and then take measures to correct it. Sometimes a low spot can be a few feet in diameter and with the feathering needed I may need 6', 8' or more to deal with it. If I don't have space I could be featuring up to a high spot underneath furniture. It is best to try and figure a way to go one room a time, clean it out, then go on to the next room.

    If you have your heart set on an engineered BC, then get it :), life is too short to fret over that as long as you know about this issue and are okay with it. On glued down floors the thickness does not really matter as much as opposed to floating. What does matter is the top wear layer thickness and using the right adhesive. A 3mm or 4mm thick wear layer is actually better in the long run as a 5mm thick . Going too thick with the wear layer can cause a phenomenon called "dry cupping" .... the NWFA and NOFMA are aware of this and it is being addressed.

    If you go with a glued down engineered wood floor and want to put on a sealer as "insurance" , then do it. In your case I would strongly consider using Stauf 960 which is a quality sealer and adhesive combined in one application. You pay alot more for the adhesive but you only have one labor issue.

    Imo you could also go with a floating floor. But to pull this off you must use a quality product and (here I go again)..... the concrete must be flat. There is a laminate out there that I have personally installed that is almost bullet proof. That would be Wilsonart , which is a high pressure laminate referred to as an HPL. Putting that down along with using their blue fusion glue in the joinery can take any weight you want to put on top of it. When I do that I recommend to the client upgrading the underlayment to a product Sound Solutions. You cannot walk on this type of install and tell that it floats.

    You could also go with a floating engineered wood... this is where thickness comes into play. I prefer to use nothing less than a 1/2" in thickness and a where the joints get glued up, or, choose a good reliable click-lock system like the valinge or Uniclic joinery systems. They both hold together well. The wood should also be waht is called balanced.... the top layer equals the bottom.

    You are very typical of alot of my clients. Quit stressing so much :).

  • susanlynn2012
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jerry, thank you so much for your informative reply that I have printed as well as information on the Stauf960 to show potential installers and find someone who is OK at doing one room at a time so I have a place to put all the office furniture and filing cabinets.

    Thanks for explaining that if I want to float the floor, it is doable but then I need a thicker plank and upgrading the underlayment.

    I wish you were in my NJ area since I would have the job done already.

    Also I have a question on Santos Mahogany Vs. Kempas Vs. Brazilian Cherry. The Kempas Engineered and the Brazilian Engineered are the same price in a 3.5" wide plank (9/16th thick and 4 MM wear layer) from Hartco but the Santos Mahogany is more. The best price is of the 3/8th BR-111 Brazilian Cherry (3.125 MM wear layer) but now I wonder if I would be better with the 5" wide since it is 1/2" thick.

    One of my friends tells me that the Kempas and the Santos Mahogany will give me the look I want without being any darker than Brazilian Cherry but less of a dramatic change in color. Another friend tells me his client has Pradoo in the dining room that is stunning and like Brazilian Cherry but is lighter and less brown. But Pradoo engineered is more money. BR-111 does not have Pradoo or Kempas and only has Brazilian Cherry and Santos Mahogany engineered woods.

    I also have a sample here of Natural Cherry Grand Illusions Laminate that looks so real and someone on this list sent me pics. I didn't consider it in the past since the sample was more brown than I wanted but it sure is nice. The Wilsonart sounds great but I think I looked at their samples and I did not find any that I loved but I will look again.

    So it appears that someone has to check if my floor is flat and make sure it is very clean before installing any new flooring.

    With the rounding up the installers have done, it appears that I have about 616 square feet. Is 5% waste factor OK?

  • jerry_t
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's right mam.... slabs have to be flat, dry and clean. Along with choosing a proper product and the correct adhesive if you are gluing it down.

    I failed to mention using a 6 or 8 mil poly moisture barrier underneath any type of floating floor, whether it is a wood or laminate.... very important but a good installer already knows this. He/she should also maintain a proper expansion space along all perimeters and make use of transitional T-molds where they are needed.

    All laminates are not created equal, so whether or not the laminate you mentioned will give you good service underneath all that weight.... I could not tell you.

    I also have not installed any BR-111 products, so I can't help you there either.

  • susanlynn2012
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jerry, thank you again for your great advice. I have not met any installers that I felt as comfortable with as you. I sure wish you lived near me.

    The laminate you recommended does have two "species" of laminate wood that I could like from the pics. One of them you have a picture of on your website and it looks very real.

    What hardwood manufacturers are you comfortable with? I just do not want a rotary peel cut for my floor. I was hoping for a sawn cut to look like a solid wood product.

    At least all the installers mentioned that we have to allow 1/4" expansion space along with wall with quarter round molding to cover up the space and they suggested white to match my trim.

  • jerry_t
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you Lynn, but I'm just an every day Joe... go out and install something the best I know how and then get a decent paycheck when it's all done.

    As far as brands and manufactures, I don't have a preference. Most all of my work is the lower end stuff.... LL, Bruce, ect. I have never installed any Mirage or other high end products.

  • Pinkie8
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes Lynn. I think the best option is to seal the office floor. I don't know whether you have already got it done, but Urethane and epoxy coatings go well only if you have a huge industrial space. If your unit is just like any other office space in Toronto, then go for concrete polishing or floor coating services.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Concrete Polishing services

  • millworkman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    And they will polish your floor with SPAM!!

  • Laurie
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Lynn -

    I wish I could help you, but most technical wood installation advice is out of my league. It's been 5 years since dh installed our Lauzon engineered wood flooring (glued down on to concrete slab).

    All the boards were in great shape , so no waste there. Dh always tried to use cut ends of the boards on other sections along the perimeter of the rooms. That kept the waste down, too.

    We didn't need quarter round because the baseboards (6 1/2" tall) were thick enough (at the bottom) to cover up the small gap between the flooring and the wall.

    Jerry gave you a lot of very wise information. I tip my hat to any flooring installer because I believe it is a real difficult job to do and takes a lot of skill and experience. Their knees and backs must be in very good condition. Plus, all the math and prep work.
    Dh has done many DIY projects and says this was the most challenging of all!

    Do you have any photos of your current floors/rooms?

    Laurie

  • pinkie09
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    you could also seal the floor with epoxy or urthane or just polish it depending on your taste. here is a link that could be help if you are in Toronto area.

    Here is a link that might be useful: epoxy flooring

  • millworkman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Also SPAM!!