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janeway452

Feeling sick about new floor transition

janeway452
9 years ago

I'm just finishing my kitchen/FR renovation and the finishing touch was to have the old parquet in the kitchen replaced with matching hardwood in the adjoining FR (which was refinished at the same time). When the floor guy looked at the job a couple of months ago he said he would tear out the parquet. When he showed up 2 weeks ago he says he'll save me $575 by just laying the new floor over the parquet and showed me the piece of wood for the transition. The refrigerator was already moved out. So after about 5 minutes to think about it and I don't think he explained just exactly what it would look like or function. So they laid the
new white oak that matched pretty good the FR, installed the 3/4" high 1 1/2" wide transition at the door to the LR (the darker hardwood runs perpendicular--easier to see) and at the middle of the room (where parquet met smoothly the FR room addition.) When they were done it looked okay, they did a good job refinishing the old and the new looked nice. Then they moved the refrigerator back. By that evening I knew it was horribly wrong. That transition, in reality, is relatively steep and slippery right in the middle of the room. The refrigerator door is inches from the transition and I found it crazy to try to juggle taking items out of the refrigerator while "watching my step." The floor cold air return (recessed wood grate is on order) is also inches from the transition, the end of the peninsula, which you walk around into the FR is also inches from the transition and it's just in the worst possible place for such a substantial transition in the middle of the room and a high traffic area. Last night I slipped on it in my sock feet. It's the same color and runs the same direction as the FR, so it's hard to see under any light conditions. Makes me think this is actually a dangerous situation (e.g. elderly + throw rugs) and since I plan to age in place, this will affect me. As for resale, I can just imagine this might be a deal breaker. I wish I could ask a realtor. Something I had not thought of is that you shouldn't have to "think" so much about your floor surface walking around the room. I had no idea it would be like this and I find it hard to believe the floor guy (in business for 30 years) didn't warn me.

So I called him and told him how unhappy I was with it. He came over and advised that by taking out the parquet I'd only gain 1/4" (which when you consider that the transition is 3/4" high that's fairly significant, I'd think). He seemed concerned that he'd be liable for the cost of removing the new floor, tearing up the parquet, relaying the new floor. I should have told him that I had been thinking that I knew it would cost me. So he came up with a solution (that he'd do for free) that at first I thought might be acceptable. But having time to think about it, and hoping you all can help evaluate, I don't want. He suggested bringing the new floor out a couple of feet and having a specially milled piece of wood (3/4" high, 6" wide (yikes! that seems really wide and noticeable in the middle of the room), and 1/8" at the end. This would put the transition further away from the high traffic area, and the transition wider and a more gentler slope. What do you think?

I'm going to call him shortly and propose this: tear up the new floor, tear up the parquet (and I'll dispose it), reuse the torn up new floor is possible, extending the new floor into the FR a couple of feet " like he suggested for the fix, and using a less steep transition (maybe 1/2" high, 2" or 2 1/2 or 3" wide, x 1/8"). I'm going to tell him that I understand that this shouldn't be totally at his expense and I'm willing to pay half (or what? any suggestions what would be fair?). I realize that there will be some kind of transition, but I want one that I can live with safely.

Do you think that I'm right that removing the old parquet and being able to set the 3/4" new floor down at least 1/4" will make a substantial difference (as well as moving the new floor out a couple of feet)? Expense, within reason, well worth it in the long run, instead of taking the "free" solution. Thanks for your thoughts and input. I really need help on this.

Comments (22)

  • Vertise
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That looks ridiculous and is a tripping hazard. I wonder if it would pass code. Can you post a picture down low to see the height differences.

    Why, if the old floor were taken down to its substrate would it not be level with the adjoining area?

    Great job on the flooring match!

  • gregmills_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I wonder if it would pass code" And what code exactly would you be referring to?

    its a shame there was confusion, but heres the facts....from the picture....the floor looks great. and you saved some money.

    the other good thing is your guy is still willing to work with you, offering solutions.

    ripping out the old wood and expecting to save enough of it to put back in is kind of a pipe dream...the time its gonna take to take any usable pieces and denial them and not break the tongue, its better to just buy brand new.

    by only removing the parquet you would only save a little bit of height like your guy mentioned...look back at your bid and see if removing the parquet included the plywood beneath...im assuming prior to all this the parquet and whiteoak were flush?

  • janeway452
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you! Here is a photo that captures the height difference. My thoughts exactly. The kitchen was here first. Then (maybe the 70's) they put on an addition adjoining the kitchen. That's why the cold air return is where it is. At that time they matched the height exactly. I'll post a before picture to show how good a height match it is. This was taken recently during the painting job.

  • janeway452
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This photo shows how well they managed the height difference and also shows what a crappy place it was to put such a radical transition. His fix (and my new proposal) is to extend the new floor a couple of feet to the other side of the peninsula at the point the curve ends going all the way to the wall where the door is.

  • janeway452
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just got off the phone with the floor guy with my proposal and he keeps stressing about all that work for just 1/4" and still having a height difference. While talking to him, it occurred to me, that maybe the FR area (14.5' x 16') could just be topped with a new floor to match the kitchen area. The floor is in great shape and it refinished just beautifully. Didn't seem logical to top a perfectly good floor, but now I realize he should have suggested it originally, being the professional. Hate to do it, but it would eliminate a lot of labor, be so much simpler and the new floor should match almost perfectly. He's going to call me tomorrow with the price.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Now I see the raise in floor at the back of the first photo.

    ""I wonder if it would pass code" And what code exactly would you be referring to?"

    "I wonder if it would pass code" - for tripping hazards. Similar to requirements for sidewalk cracks (as little as 1/4" some locales), requirements for more than 1 step, threshold height limits, stair riser height variance, etc.

    This is a wide expanse of floor material, now having no transitional cue for a change in height, such as a change in floor color or material. It reads as one floor.

    Not only uncomfortable to walk on but a trip hazard, especially for young, old or visitors unfamiliar with the home.

    Bad design. Codified for residential? Dunno.

    Maybe you have a plan there to straighten the floor out! Also have him show you how you'd only gain 1/4".

    This post was edited by snookums2 on Sun, Oct 19, 14 at 18:23

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Op, I'm curious about your statement that the "finishing touch" of your remodel was to install the new flooring in the kitchen. Was the flooring in the kitchen installed after the cabinets? Didn't you lose 3/4 of an inch of your cabinet height? What did he do where the dishwasher is located? Are you able to move the dishwasher in and out freely?

    IMO, you (and he) would have been MUCH better off if he had just done the flooring the way you had originally intended. His money-saving effort is now coming back to bite you in the arse and you are going to have to spend more than he saved you to fix it! I have to wonder if his effort at saving YOU money was more of an effort to make his job easier by not having to do the tear out.

    Is the parquet flooring thinner than the 3/4 inch wood you got to replace it? Why not pick out a flooring material that is the same height as the original parquet and have no transition at all? I agree with gregmills that the floor looks great looking down on it, but seeing it from the side, that 3/4 inch transition looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

    I'd want to make sure there would be no problems in the future with the height of the kitchen floor if left as it is before committing to redoing the rest of the area to match it.

  • glennsfc
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It looks great as it is. Live with it.

  • Acadiafun
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The cost savings were unimportant because now your floor is not safe. People will trip and maybe someone will get hurt. I find it sad that your installer did not take that into account. IMHO he messed up by not tearing out the parquet and now you have a mess on your hands. I know you agreed to it, but he should have known better and not suggested it in the first place. It needs to be fixed and it will cost you money. I would choose a different installer for whatever you decide to fix the problem.

  • janeway452
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, it looks great, but living with it will be awkward and potentially hazardous to guests as well as me, especially as I "age in place". I remember my Dad and stepmother had a large hardwood entryway with fluffy throw rugs at each doorway to LR, den and kitchen. As they became more frail, we cringed at the thought of them falling on them (even though over the years they "lived with it") and my stepmother was such a clean freak she wouldn't hear about removing them. This transition brought that to mind. I'm guessing that in a commercial setting this would be a liability issue.

    If my kitchen renovation had been more planned and organized this whole situation might have been avoided. It started with me wanting to "just" add granite counter tops. Ha! Cabinets weren't level. Ended up getting new cabinets, the floor wasn't level (this is the very old part of the house), so the installer had to build up the cabinets as he went around. Stove and dishwasher were also built up to be level with the cabinets. The new floor fits underneath very well. The counter top ended up being a tad higher than previously (a tall person would have liked it) and I did get used to it. I'm starting to recall that when I got floor estimates I said I wanted to replace both floors, but he suggested tearing up the old parquet, lay new matching hardwood and refinish the FR area to match. Then he comes in to start the job and I got the impression that he really didn't want to tear up the parquet, using the "it'll save you $575" inducement. I did agree, but I had forgotten about wanting to replace the FR area as well, and didn't have time to visualize the reality, nor did he explain it very well to me. He's been doing this for 30 years and I'm confused as to why he didn't just say at that point (or suggest) why not just lay new hardwood as well in the FR area--that the heights would match and there wouldn't be a middle of the room steep transition.

    It kills me that I'm now faced with the added cost of doing it the way it should have been done in the first place. I really wish it was a case of just learning to live with it, but I know I can't. The steep transition in the doorway from the kitchen is a different story. It's a narrow doorway, the hardwood colors are different and the boards run opposite. You just walk in and out. Easy to see, simple, no problem, not unusual in older homes.

  • janeway452
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you for your support and understanding, Acadiafun. I think you put it in a nutshell. I also think you're right that I should have someone do the "new job." I'm going to make some calls today to get more estimates. It will be interesting to see how they compare with what he'll offer (cost as well as when he can do it).

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I know you agreed to it, but he should have known better and not suggested it in the first place.

    True that! I hear over and over again from the pros on GW that people should hire pros because the average Homeowner "doesn't know what they don't know." We hire professionals for their expertise and advice about how a job should be done, as well as for their construction skills. This "cost saving" option caused the customer to trip and is now costing her even more money to fix. Whether or not it "looks great" (and that is certainly debatable) doesn't really matter if it creates a tripping hazard.

  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    At a savings of $575 a tripping hazard was created. Your floor guy saved himself a lot of work by talking you into that.

    Worth it?

  • janeway452
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yep, pretty expensive $575! Well, it looks like it's going to be corrected like this: The floor guy said he would lay a new hardwood floor on the (just refinished) FR floor which will match the kitchen floor. He said he had to run the new floor in the opposite direction because you can't put a new floor over an old in the same direction. It should look okay and all the same level. He said he'd try for the first week of November, but I'm not holding my breath. I just want it done!

  • Acadiafun
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am hoping that the correction is good and this just becomes a memory for you. :) But- just in case I would get an estimate from a reputable flooring contractor just to be on the safe side. I am glad you are able to resolve this but I would not want the original contractor to step foot in my house again. You know the old saying "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me....."

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Are you going to remove and reinstall the baseboards in the LR, too? Kind of a drag that the floors now need to run in opposite directions, but I would prefer that over the alternative of the tripping hazard. You seem like a very patient and easy-going person. :-)

  • Swentastic Swenson
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Eesh what a nightmare! How is he going to rectify that extra 3/4" or whatever with the bottom of your peninsula? It's going to look like your floors are creeping up your cabinets, no? This would just drive me nuts.

    Also, you might take into consideration how this is going to affect your door trim and the threshold/door.

    On the other hand, I hear perpendicular floor boards are all the rage right now...

    Personally, I'd have him rip out the new floor and parquet and do it the right way. Might mean he's got to replace the subfloor in the kitchen so everything is level. You pay materials, he eats the labor. He shouldn't have advised this in the first place - especially if it doesn't meet code.

  • glennsfc
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK this will be my final comment on this thread. I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction. The contractor gave you what you agreed upon. You now have buyer's remorse. This guy is willing to work with you to make you happy. Consider yourself lucky that you employed someone willing to resolve this with you and not just walk away.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think what she really has is contractor remorse.

  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hope you end up with a safe floor. One trip causing a trip to the hospital could be $$$$$$$$$. You need to be safe in your kitchen. Best wishes for good results.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd remove whichever floor would easiest allow the boards to be running in the same direction.

    Instead of flooring over the LR, I'd take out what's there, build the substrate up as neccessary to meet the kitchen floor and then install the new flooring in the correct direction. I think you are getting sucked in again! Stop with the half arsed plans. He really hates demo & prep! Sheesh.

  • diytrying
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hope everything works out to your satisfaction. I cringe when I see that transition. I also had flooring installed to match existing hardwood, both of which come off a higher kitchen floor. When they installed my transition thresholds, they were 1 1/4 high with no slope! When I said that was unacceptable, he said that looked the best with the "massive height difference" and ugly tile edge. No way can that be code. Meanwhile there is a perfectly acceptable reducing threshold right across from his installed by somebody else. Thank goodness you have someone who will work with you for such a big job. I just got sick of talking about it. I was able to find a 3/4 reducer, cut it to fit with a small lip over the tile. If the edge is not perfect I'll run some grout. The poly is drying on it to match floor. Installing them tomorrow.