Sure enough, I'm gathering bids, and the first two contractors won't do a 1/16" joint. I told them the tile is rectified. One guy actually asked, "What do you mean by that?" Disturbing, no? I explained it. Five minutes later, he tried to explain to me that porcelain tiles are rarely exactly the same size or completely square. Once again, I explained what "rectified" means, wishing I could just snap my fingers and make him disappear.

Both of them have given me all the reasons why a 1/16" grout joint is impossible. My house is old, the floor can't possibly be completely level, a new subfloor won't fix anything, etc. The thing is, the current ceramic is at least 15 years old, and there's not a single crack, not even in the grout lines.

Am I asking the impossible? (Bill V., if you're reading this, your reco is on vacation -- I'm hoping he's my salvation!) Aesthetically, I love the look of a tiny grout line, especially with this sort of tile.

two occurrances can prevent successful 1/16" grout joints.

one being nominal tile sizing (tiles not exactly the same dimension as every other tile), and two being the existing floors height variances that would cause a run-off.

When attempting to install a 1/16" grout joint with either present can cause tile stepping and run off becasue there is basically no joint to make it up in the installation grid system layed out prior to install.

TO answer your question, no, it is impossible.

However, the above considerations play an important role in it's success.

Since you house is older and admittedly not perfect, you want to research and find an installation professional comfortable with this, and expect to pay a handsome fee because basically they will be either installing a mud bed, or mudding the tiles in over a backer unit (a hybrid technique), which it time consuming and not a well known technique to every ceramic installer, especially those who only do thinset/backer board installations.

Many refuse to do it becasue of tile nominal sizing, extra time involved, the difficulty factors, and the lack of knowledge to pull it off successfully.

This doesnt mean they are bad installers.

On the contrary it means they care enough to admit they can't do it, so they refuse to do it.

and them some jsut do not know the difference and think it cant be done successfully, but still install great projects all the time.

I would keep searching until you find a installation mechanic who can do it.

The key is the tiles dimensions from tile to tile.

If they are the exact same with no variance, then it can be done.

I agree with the salesperson-- don't give up. Stick to your guns.

Floorman-- the biggest way that rectified differs from other porcelain (or other tiles, for that matter) is that while all other tile, porcelain or otherwise, are stamped out to size before going into the kiln, rectified porcelain goes into the kiln in sheets, and then is cut to size afterward. If you ever see it, it'll have the same exact edge as polished stone tile, with the cutting ridges and the chamfered edge. This is why no matter what the size of the tile, it can be set tight, because the tolerances are alot stricter than they are for other tiles. You'll see less variation in size with rectified porcelain than you will even with polished stone.

Part of me thought I was being silly. You know, what's a couple sixteenths of an inch? But the joints on my kitchen ceramic are 3/16", and on my honed limestone, they're 2/16" -- and there's a huge aesthetic difference between those two. The 1/16" grout lines I've seen with rectified tile absolutely make the look, in my opinion.

I'll stick to my guns. I think I need to shift my focus and make sure I'm calling in natural stone installers.

I've got to remember that next time I go to a site looking for rectified porcelain, and a search comes up empty! :-)

gwa, I had to shop and shop to find my tile guy. I was so depressed over how long it was taking to find someone who was anywhere near as smart as the guys here that my daughter even wrote me a letter with a pretty picture, wishing that I find the right tile guy, and posted it on our mirror so I could look at it every day...

When I found The One, it was pretty clear from the beginning. The grout clouds parted, the tile angels sang, you know the drill ;) So don't give up, insist on someone you can communicate with and who knows how to do 1/16" grout lines. My guy even let me grind down the edges of my own tile to make them flat so I could do 1/16" grout lines with non-rectified tile. Other people laughed out loud when I suggested that. But this guy just made it happen. I had asked at the place I got the tile, which yielded at the best a very commercial guy who didn't have time for residential niceties...eventually, you know where I found him? Craigslist, of all places. He had an ad that said "not the lowest prices, but I get the job done right". He does a lot of commercial, but also some residential, and was just starting out on his own business after years of working or someone else who did mostly commercial, so he was eager to have good references for residential as well. He still wasn't Bill or mongo, but hey who is...So there are some tips from my LONG search... The motto of my school was "I will find a way or make one" and that's the *one* thing I liked about that place :)

(from how some of those girls approached life, I always thought it should have been "I will find a way or marry one" but that would be catty, wouldn't it...;) [it's late!])

Beautiful work, Gary. :-)

Porcelanosa makes some beautiful big rectified tiles.

I used rectified tile in my bathroom (all over) and the tiler did use 1/16" lines on all the walls, using unsanded grout. It looks fantastic. I failed to specify that I wanted tiny lines on the floor, too, and he did wider lines, using sanded grout. Fortunately, it still looks really good, just not how I would have done it had I remembered to specify.

otherwise we would have missed the modern look that we were going for. Larger grout lines tend to look more country or rustic. the monolithic look is more modern...just my opinion :)

That's all I'd have to hear, and I'd be out the door. These people are morons, as backed up by their followup statement-- "We can do a 1/16 grout line. It will have to be in unsanded grout which is a wall tile grout and not designed for foot traffic. Also there will be minimum penetration in the space between the tiles. We will not be able to guarantee that the grout will not walk through or break out."

This moron has no idea of what they're talking about, or how to install tile. NOT IDEA AT ALL.

Seriously-- Go somewhere else, or you'll be the next person posting a horror story. Please trust me on this.

Nevermind FOOT traffic. I've done 18x18 rectified porcelain in car showroom floors with 1/16" grout joints and unsanded grout. It stands up to CAR traffic!!

If it were me, I'd have told the person to go back to asking if their customer wanted large fries with that!!

His excuse was that they used the smallest possible spacer availble, that he never promised me 1/16th because that would have been a custom job, special order, more expensive, blah blah blah. Not only did I not get what I wanted-- I was made to look like a fool who didn't know what I was asking for. (I'm new to renovations, so yes-- I learned that lesson the hard way).

So two days later I walk into home depot, go straight to the tile guy and ask him what's the smallest spacer they recommend for my tile, and voila- aisle 20 filled with 1/16th grout spacers. I bought a pack and will give it to my contractor as my thank you gift, with a sweet note: I thought these could come in handy next time a client asks for 1/16th.

At this stage- to redo the floor would set my whole renovation back substantially, and is simply not worth the fight. I'll just love my floor as is. Fortunately, I have plenty of love to give. Just none of it will go to my a**hole contractor.

1. a true tile craftsman does not use spacers. They installs to their grid system (chaulk lines). This is much more accurate if laid out properly.

2. 1/16" isnt always possible depending on the tile (even with spacers).

3. tiles squareness and tile size accuracy from tile to tile is what determines the mminimum grout joint size.

4. rectified tile and dimensionally stable tile are guaranteed to be able to have ultra thin 1/16" joints,. but be prepared to pay considerably for that.

The tile was rectified, and I had specifically asked for 1/16th based on my conversations with the tile sales people. The problem really was that the contractor never allowed for the possibility (even if had been at higher cost) and went ahead and did it with 1/8th without further discussion.

It's good to know that spacers aren't really used. If a chaulk lines are used, does that mean you get any size grout you want? The contractor claims it was 1/8, but measuring with tape it looks like a 1/4.

I'm happy to be sorting this out for a few years down the line, when I do my bathroom with similar tiles, I'll know to stand my ground or look for a different contractor who will at least discuss the option of 1/16th.

before you snap a grid system though, yo want to dry lay a few tiles out to form a square with the desired joint size to get the overall block size for the grid system.

here is an illustration of what i mean by a tiling grid system. I wrote this up for another poster some time ago about a diagonal installation, but it shows a grid system pretty well.

the red lines are the main control lines.

the pink lines are also main control lines but figured off of the red lines to make the instalaltion a diagonal.

the dark blue lines are the actual installation grid the tiles are set to.

the light blue/aqua lines represent the tile joints.

as you can see, a tile chaulked line grid system provides for exact tile spacing, facillitates squareness of the entire installation, and facillitates evening up the cuts and ensuring the isntallation stays on track throughout the entire area, no matter where the isntallers starts it, becasue you set the tiles to each individual grid and respective installed tile. This also makes cuts a breeze to do all at once before the field install, during the field install, or after the fields install.

This isnt as simple as it looks and sounds. You have to ensure every lines is respectively squareness or true perpendiculars to opposing lines. An easy way to check for squareness of the installation grid is by measuring the blocks corner to corner. If they are exact then you are square, if not them something is out of whack and needs adjusted.

if each tile is EXACLTY 12"x12", we want a 1/16" grout joint, and we want our grid to be 3 tiles by 3 tiles, our grid size would be 3 foot 3/16". Please note that on two sides we add an extra joint, else we would be joint crushed when we install! We do this so we have a grout joint against the last installed tile (on starter rows we remove that extra joint becasue it is a tile to tile measurements and we arent installing against any other tiles, but this can be replaced with a cut row/block to make it easier if needed).

ignore the 3/16" shown on the illustration ... it was for another thread.

We have been so delighted with this tile and the way it was floated and set that we are in the process of searching for a company with installers capable of replicating this installation.

Regarding 1/16" grout lines, there has been an update discussed here recently that I will link to for a more up to date reference: