second photo of liv room... the variation is crazy on these floors too

First of all...your floor is not red oak. It may have some red oak disbursed in the field, but it looks to me that it is mostly white oak...not necessarily a bad thing in my mind, as I prefer the look of white oak. However...you asked for red oak and probably got white oak instead.

The variation you see would probably have been even more pronounced, were they finished absolutely natural the way you wanted. Your contract with this guy ought to have spelled out in detail what species, what grade and sawing and what finishes would be applied. You probably didn't get that in writing, so you're kind of over a barrel here. But,,,if you have a written contract stating exactly what species the floor was supposed to be...and it is not that...then you have good leverage in dealing with this guy further.

Good luck.

While you said you mentioned you wanted a "clear" coat and wanted tem natural, that could have been confused at somepoint. I know unless someone specifically tells me they want water bourne urethane i use oil fir natural floors.

Now you could have told the first guy that and maybe when he hired out the job maybe just told them natural and so they went oil.

If you had anything in writing like Glennsfc said then you have ground to stand on. But if not then you may be stuck. Being your own GC requires a lot more work unfortunately to get exactly what you want.

The floors do look nice so thats a plus. Lots of hacks out there. As far as figuring out if you have two or 3 coats on currently thats impossible for anyone here to say with certainty. But if you can recall only 2 days of being wet then theres a good chance you only have 2.

thanks for your thoughts... it really helps put it all in perspective... and yes, I do think they look nice...just different from what I hoped/asked for. Im 100% there is only two coats though, but he isn't budging on it and says the guys told him they did 3. He really doesn't know himself, just what these floor guys said. I guess I will just pay up the last pmt and pay for the 3rd coat and not let him put his sign up... and not refer him to anyone. and not sweat the small stuff right...

Heres just a thought. And this may work and it might not. But generally in my experience a floor with only two coats can sometimes feel a bit rough still.

A way you might get around having to pay for that "3rd" coat would be to tell him the floor feels rough to the touch. Like i said its not a guarantee but its a shot.

Gregmills.... Yes! it is rough, not supper rough but when I touch it I can feel the grain in the wood... it definitely has two coats, but convincing this man is a challenge, he isn't budging. I thought it was because I ordered satin poly, but my sister has satin and it doesn't feel this way. I'm meeting him today to talk about my final payment and another coat. I asked him to meet at the house so I can talk about it with the floors right there for us to look at together. Its so awkward arguing about it, not looking forward to it...

One compromise would be for you to pay for the materials to cover the roughness, and for him to provide the labor. Just don't bring up the "he said, she said" about there being a third coat at all. The issue is the texture of the wood, not how many coats of finish it might have. (And you might want to do a screening in between the coats to knock the texture back a bit before the new coat goes on.)

greendesigns.... I'll try that.. and your right, the "he said, she said" bickering is an embarrassing way to argue business! Thanks for the sugg... on my way now, ugh

An experienced floor finisher can generally tell whether the floor has enough coats by looking at the texture. It's entirely possible that your finisher applied a quick dry neutral sealer for the first coat, applied a coat of poly the same day (after a few hours of drying time) and applied the final coat the next day. A better (close up) picture might allow us to determine whether the floor has enough finish.
When you speak to the floor person, ask him what days the coats were applied and tell him how that might contrast with your observation. I've had employees tell me they had put three coats on when they had only done two. I could tell the difference. OTOH, you don't want too much finish on the floor either. More coats doesn't equal "better". The more coats you apply, the more the grain gets filled in and the floor starts to look plastic.
As to the "clear" issue, I've had customers who thought that the floor would be the same color as the raw wood after the finish was applied. Every clear finish will bring out the wood color, some more than others. The only way to achieve a raw wood look is to apply a tinted pickle sealer to the floor and apply coats of non-yellowing urethane. The closest thing to that would be to use a sealer like BonaSeal and apply two coats of non-yellowing finish over that.
As was pointed out, the floor in your pictures is not Red Oak. It looks like White Oak. I like White Oak but if you paid for Red Oak, that's a serious issue.

Keep in mind with 3 coats that have been apply properly will still leave some grains kinda of rough. In the sense that you can feel it. Overall the floor is not suppose to feel super smooth like a bar top but i hope your dealing with the floor guy goes well and you get any and all issues resolved.

The floors are pretty. The finish does look like satin to me.

I hope you get another coat of finish on the floors. I do love their look and feel they look like white oak. What width are they as they look very nice despite being a little darker than you had in mind.

BIG ISSUE NOW.... the floors are rippling in every room!!! I had paper all over the floors while other work was getting done... I just removed the paper so the floor guys could do a last coat of poly (which I agreed to pay for another coat, sick of arguing with him) .... I called the contractor and told him about the rippling/wave of floors, asked that he please get over to my house to look (he only lives a few miles away) . I played dumb and asked why he thought it would happen and he said "because you didn't have heat on when the floors went down (not true, my heat was working and set at 70, floors layed april 22) and that I didn't have insulation under my subfloors. (so what? they never did and my original oak floors were fine since 1973) The men he hired to do my floors put a last coat of poly on early this morning, I missed them so I couldn't point out the rippling/wavy of wood to them. Of course they see it, its obvious) When I look into the front door, you can see the "wave" of the planks where they each meet...... Im writing a book, any more thoughts? where do you think I stand in taking action?

Hi Lynn2006, thanks! The floors are 4" wide, I love the wider look. Previously had 2 3/4" red oak, but Sandy flooded my house and they had to be replaced. My neighbors have the wide and came out beautiful so I went with wide.

I may have used the incorrect term. The floor is "cupping" now, not the entire floor, but every room has large areas where it is...

Bronwynspetalpatch, I hope flooring experts can chime in why the floors are cupping. I am so sorry for all the stress.

4" wide boards are my favorite width and I wish they came in engineered in floor species I want but it seems they come either wider or skinnier. I have a concrete floor so I engineered is preferable as I live in the wetlands.

Ive been researching and just was told that wood needs to acclimate in my home for minimum of 72 hours before installation. I was there the day floors went down... one guy in a van was at my house with the wood in the van... he was hauling it into the house, and began laying the floors right away... wood didn't sit in my house first.

Ah geez.

I can get a floor inspector report for a price, but I'm going to wait until this last coat of poly dries to where it can be walked on before I demand the contractor come down and look at it, and see if he takes any responsibility. He never went to look last night. My central air is being installed this Saturday. wondering if that will fix the issue?

The paper retarded the movement of moisture through the floor assembly; that is probably why they cupped. Also, the wider the floor board...the more likely you will have obvious board movement. The floor will most likely flatten now that the paper has been removed.

Flooring needs to acclimate to the environment in which it will live. Your temps and humidity levels were probably not that when the floor was installed. Also, moisture meters ought to be an instrument that wood flooring installers have and know how to operate. Expect the floor to move some after the HVAC is up and operating. How much it's going to move is anyone's guess.

Final analysis? It's only a floor, and if you can't see a visual ripple or wave or whatever from standing height in normal light, well it's not an issue.

Best bet is to give it a week or two and let things settle. If in that time you still have issues then i suggest you hire a floor inspector. Especially if your contractor is not any help

You also need to address the moisture issues in your crawl space. You need a vapor barrier over the soil. Wider wood is not as forgiving as narrow wood.

taken today, still tacky with last coat of poly.
I feel like I'm beating this to death... this started out with me not liking how dark they came out and arguing if it had 2 or 3 coats of poly... now its cupping. sheesh.

I appreciate those that have read this and especially those taking the time to respond... it really helps me sort it out in my mind and not panic. I want to be a reasonable customer, its very important to me.

I am going to wait until the a/c has run for a week and see if the floors flatten out before I make a stink. right now it is not only visable to the eye when standing, but you can feel it when you walk on it, however I'm willing to wait and see if it can be corrected with temp/moisture change with the a/c, etc. Minor imperfections I will definitely accept.

that's a good thought.... my crawlspace is 4" and concrete all around... floor and walled... no wet soil/dirt under house. I'm thinking it was the wood not being acclimated to the house for the required 72 hours +

My neighbors 50 feet away had 4" wide red oak put in Feb/2013 with 3 coats poly and they look great, no cupping/waves nothing, and they do have a dirt crawl. Just different company lay their floors.

I'm going it again, beating a dead horse, SORRY!

Yeah that's a pretty serious cup you got there. Like gregmills said, maybe give it a week or two to see if it settles down.

Cupping like that usually does indicate too much moisture in the subfloor on installation or an active moisture problem in the crawlspace cavity below.

With this being a remediation of a flood, what was done to minimize the water vapor transfer from all of that moisture into the home? That is a must. I'm not understanding the foundation type either. Your crawlspace is only 4" off the ground??? Yet it has concrete underneath it??? Are you sure this isn't slab on grade construction and solid wood was (incorrectly) installed to it?

Flood remediation...that didn't register for some reason. That probably would explain the cupping issue. I wonder if the subflooring was replaced and I also wonder what moisture mitigation was done in this case.

I have 3" #1 white oak flooring finished with a "natural" stain/sealer (the color on the can says Natural) and three coats of oil-based poly. Your floors look identical to mine, except for the wider planks.

In my case, it's exactly the look I wanted. Hopefully, you'll warm up to the color. I think they look great.

Obviously the cupping is a problem. My floor guy was reluctant to install anything wider than 3" planks because of potential cupping issues. I made sure the flooring was delivered and in the home for at least a week prior to installation for acclimatization. In my case, it was summertime, so we were running the A/C. This was part of a remodel, so the rest of the house was relatively stable with respect to moisture content.

I was the GC for my remodel. These are just the kinds of details I expect the GC to look after. By the end of the project I had a good appreciation for the value of a good GC.

Live wire oak.... I'm doing everything prompt and by the book, its my way... flood was Oct 2012, never got water before, 1st time,(so no history of continual water damage). Crawl was pumped out next day. House was gutted, wood floors removed early nov 2012. hired reputable mold remediation, entire crawl, subfloor below and above, entire house scrubbed and sealed in December. Kept subfloors, was told by GC that I could replace them, but absolutely not necessary, they were fine, see pic. 4 months later, late april floors layed day wood arrived, week later 1st coat of poly. no cupping yet... just was not happy with dark color at this point and such variation and some really small boards. I didn't want the "patchwork" look. But I come to terms with it. It certainly is nice, just not the look I wanted/envisioned.

My crawl space is 4feet... all concrete,no dirt... when you crawl in the opening you step 2feet below ground level and one foot up to supporting beams, then another 12 inches up to bottom of subfloor. Sorry, Its the best description, hope the 'terms' im using make sense.

Now the humidity has been crazy here in monmouth county, NJ... and has rained for weeks.

knot2fast.... My floors do look pretty, they are supposed to be red oak, which they probably are, just a different grade then I imagined. The guy I hired should have told me what grade he was using, I showed him a piece of #1grade that I got from sample and said this is what I want in satin poly, no stain.
I definitely have an appreciation for GC's... wish my budget could afford, Ive been learning as I go, trying to be a good customer, paying up when bill is in... but I expect the people I hire to be proactive and know the craft and foresee 'issues' and be thorough. I used to garden for my neighbors, If I knew a plant was going to be too large for a spot in a couple years, I would volunteer the info and offer a suggestion for a different place to put it, giving them the info so they could make a sound decision as to where to plant things for them. That kind of communication I expect from who I hire.

Im feeling like a winey bratt so I'll stop writing ;o) Im going to wait and see if the a/c helps...keeping fingers crossed.

Cupping (concave) is caused by a moisture difference between the bottom and top of the boards. The bottom of each board grows more than the top. This can be caused by improper acclimation, too wide of a moisture difference between the wood and the subfloor, moisture from underneath or climatic fluctuations.
Right now you should have someone with a insulated pin type moisture meter check the moisture in the top of the boards, the bottom of the boards and the subfloor.
There are too many scenarios to outline them here succinctly. If the ranges are fairly close to normal, you may be experiencing climatic fluctuations. These might settle out. If the subfloor was still wet (or your wood was very dry) the wood will soak up the moisture and cup. This may diminish in time also, especially if there's no insulation under the house which will allow everything to dry slowly. If the levels are alarmingly high (20+% in the flooring), immediate action might be necessary.
I'm not a believer in acclimating before installing unless the floor is 5" or over wide. We acclimate AFTER installation for a minimum of 2 weeks before starting sanding. Acclimating before installing won't hurt anything but it's not a substitute for what I would call proper acclimation. I'm in Florida so we have different climate here but wood is wood and needs to be acclimated correctly.
Did the floor contractor know this was a water damage replacement? I assume he didn't put any moisture or vapor barrier under the floor.
The bottom line here is that the floor contractor has essentially taken responsibility for your floor by installing wood over your existing subfloor. He needs to find a moisture meter if he doesn't have one, test your floor and subfloor to see what's going on.