Go to a REAL flooring store. You'll see better quality materials and talk to people who can advise you about the install. Cheaper most of the time too. Especially compared to the seconds tbat places like LL try to pass off to folks.

LL has an extraordinarily bad reputation. Yet they are still in business. Not sure if it is in good part the competition trying to beat them down or not. Do a broad search on them. BBB etc. This Old House promotes their Bella floors. ??

Don't go in blind faith with a flooring store either. You can still get a hack installer, unknowledgeable people and probably a poor product too. It's crazy out there.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Thu, Mar 6, 14 at 12:25

I continue to research LVT flooring from various sources . I looked at a flooring store that carries armstrong, congoleum, mannington, free float, and more. The entry level goods are 3+ mm thick, have a 6 mm wear layer and are priced at $5/sq.ft. The best goods are 5 mm thick, have a 20 mm wear layer and are priced at $7 and up, The LL sample, golden teak, that i am interested in is 5 mm thick and is $2.89 a square foot. I have not been able to determine the thickness of the wear layer, but I am working on that. Does anyone know what that is for the LL 5 mm LVT? At this point, it is hard for me to argue against using the LL flooring. I have also researched the legal issues that are associated with LL and those complaints seem to be universally directed at their wood and laminate products. Any thoughts?

Clarification, the wear layers are described in "mils", not mms. Can't have a 6mm wear layer on 3+mm goods.....

Further clarification...... Wear layers are described in "mils", they are actually using numbers that should be written in decimal terms, ie. 6 mils = .006 mm, 12 mils = .012mm, 20 mils = .020 mm

FINAL CLARIFICATION OF WEAR LAYER UNITS OF MEASUREMENT!!

From the National Floor Covering Alliance, and I quote;

Wearability : is an important feature of vinyl and should be seriously thought out before putting vinyl in a busy work area. The wear layer is a guideline as to how many years you can expect a floor to last. Wear layers are broken-down into mil-layers, which are (1/1000") thickness. Wear layer usually range from 8mil-25mil, with 8 mils being an entry-level floor, while 25 mils would be considered a commercial grade. A rule of thumb is the number of mils will give you the maximum years you can expect that floor to still be an acceptable floor covering in your home.

So, mil layers are actually measured in units of inches. Could this be any more confusing?

Contacted LL tech dept. And inquired re the specs of the wear layer on their 5 mm LVT products. I received a very prompt reply. The wear layer is stated as 0.5mm. For whatever reason ???? they do not use the industry standard unit of mils to describe the wear layer. I have asked them to convert their .5mm measure to mils. In the meantime, I have done "the math" based upon the info from the trade organization, NFCA

Does this follow?
1 mil = .001"
1mm = .0393"
Therefore
.5mm = .01965" or 19.6 thousandths of an inch = 19.6 mils

Will report the figure provided by LL tech dept. If LL info is correct and my calculations are correct, then the LL product has a wear layer that places their 5mm LVT product in the "best" category of other companies. If so, why would they not want to use the unit of mils to describe the wear layer?

LL is not alone in reporting wear layer measurements in mm vs mils. There is nothing legal to compel them to list it to a specific system. I found this a lot when shopping for vinyl tile at various places. Your conversion is correct. The LL vinyl would have a 20 mil layer at 0.5mm. 12 mil layers are frequently reported as 0.3mm. Fact is that a majority of vinyl, particularly in the plank category, is produced in China (Mannington is one of the few companies that is able to produce LVT domestically) and exported all around the world for various firms that private label them. For this reason, the Chinese producer has no reason to list specs according to an esoteric US standard. The private labeler can choose to convert the specs into whatever format they want. In this case, LL just chooses to to list the specs as provided by the factory rather than perform the conversion.

I'll add that while most LVT is now produced in China, four of the biggest flooring companies, including Shaw, Armstrong, and IVC, have announced major plans for US based LVT production in recent months. This is due to the growing demand of the product and the fact that the changing economic landscape has made it cost neutral to produce domestically. They get an advantage from production lead times and customer service. It will still be a while before you will see this product reach the market though.

This post was edited by SirJohn on Mon, Mar 10, 14 at 15:20

Received a reply from LL tech dept that validated my conversion of .5mm to 19+mils. That is a very good wear layer. I think LL will be getting my business. Many Thanks Sir John an to all who contributed to this thread

We looked at many different options and really liked the high end stuff from flooring stores. Because this was going in the basement (read teen hangout space) we went with a product from IFloors It was much cheaper and two years later still looks great.