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terrafina

Stained Concrete Floors

terrafina
17 years ago

Hi all,

I have recently begun looking at this great website, and have noticed that quite few questions pertain to stained concrete, or concrete floors. Stained concrete floors (and exterior stained concrete as well) are a mystery to most people. There is a lot if information out there though, and not all of it is accurate. As a professional stainer, I believe that it is important that people have plenty of information so that they can make the right decisions about their concrete. Informed consumers are happy consumers. If you have a question that you think can be answered without a visit to your home, I'd be glad to help. I do go out and stain quite a bit though, so please be patient if it takes a bit for me to get back to this forum.

Comments (30)

  • jennye
    17 years ago

    terrafina

    I do need your help, if you dont mind. I posted in the remodeling forum also.

    I have a 1963 concrete floored house, upstairs and down. I cant decide what flooring to put in the bath. I am thinking of having the tile ripped out and having the overlay and sealer done and a dark gray stain. I would do the same stain in the kitchen. I dont want acid-stained though.

    1) the baths would be done 2-3 mos. before the kitchen. Will he be able to match both fairly exactly?

    2) what about water damage in the baths?

    3)you had mentioned in a previous thread that the covering may come off in a few months if not done right. Is this easy to rectify? Should I just point blank ask if this will be a problem?

    4)people keep saying it is uncomfortable to stand on. Can there really be a difference from tile?

    Here is his web site:

    http://www.impressiveconcreteinc.com/

    I am having concrete bath counters put in by someone else, Hannah at ACS in Phoenix. I have heard she does great work, but doesnt do floors.


    Thanks so much. :)

    jenny

  • terrafina
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi Jennye,
    OK, let's see if I can answer your questions. I understand you don't want acid stain. What type of stain are you going to get? That will make a huge difference. In the meantime...

    1)matching color. Well, that depends on the stain and the aritsan.

    2) water damage in baths. The sealers we use are meant to be used inside and outside. They hold up very well if exposed to moisture from above, but, as with almost every sealer, they will not tolerate moisture from below. The best plan is to make sure you have a good quality sealer, and keep it up with a product like ChemCoat 5000, and not wax, because the wax will have a tendancy to whiten if water sits on it too long. CCI 5000 will do that too, but to a much lesser extent. Keep the puddles mopped up, and you should be fine if the stain/sealer you have chosen is good.

    3) Hmmm. Covering coming off... you might mean a response to someone about problems with an overlay. I assume you are talking about this stain going directly on the concrete you already have? If so, this doesn't pertain to you.

    4) Comfort. I have both stained concrete and tile in my home. As far as "hardness", there is no real difference between them. In my opinion, the concrete is more comfortable, because it is flat, with no depressions caused by grout lines.

  • terrafina
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi Jennye,
    I just typed a long response to your questions, and then my computer wouldn't send it. I'm having trouble communicating with this website.
    While I get this figured out, please tell me what type of stain and sealer your contractor plans to use?

  • jennye
    17 years ago

    Could the stain be decosoup or cohills? Does that sound right, or is that the color only. I am not sure of the sealer. He will have to lay an overlay as the concrete is so old.

    jenny

  • terrafina
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    I don't know "cohills", but decosup appareatly has a variety of concrete coloring materials, including Acid Stain, transparent stains (this could mean many things..), Pigmented Sealers, Concrete Dyes, and "concrete stains". There are vast differences between these. Talk to your contractor about them, and have him/her explain why they are promoting the one they are. I don't know what they mean by "concrete stains"... they could be many things... so watch out for that one.
    In a nutshell, pigmented sealers are NOT permanent. They will come off sooner or later, and I've seen them begin to chip and peel within 3 weeks of application. Dyes, depending on the pigments used and the carrier, may fade. Make sure that the manufacturer guarantees the color is permanent.

    Also, ask which sealer your contractor intends to use, so you can research it. Sealers are extremely important. Please don't go into this blindly. We've done lots of tests on sealers, and MOST of them don't measure up for some reason or another.

    The age of the concrete alone does not dictate whether you need an overlay. If it has been protected, and does not have mortar or something else non-removable, it may stain far better than an overlay. Many contractors sell overlays like movie theaters sell popcorn. I'd say that about half of the overlays I see done by other contractors are actually needed. An overlay is a "failable" layer. If you don't need it, I recommend that you don't get it.

  • tonig
    17 years ago

    terrafina-- I have a quick question. We are building a home with a daylight basement. The cement downstairs has been poured and scored in 4 foot squares. We are planning on sealing it and most likely stain also. Should we wait a certain length of time before staining? We are just ready to drywall now. We are very willing to wait if that would make for a better outcome. Thank you for any advise you could give us. We are considering doing the staining ourselves.

  • terrafina
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi Tonig,
    Manufacturers of stain typically state that the concrete should be at least 28 days old. Even though it's possible to get great results before that, I suggest you wait. Most sealers need to go on cured concrete. There are a few exceptions though. Remember, stain first... then seal. If you seal the concrete first, or acid etch it, you will not be able to get good results with acid stain afterwards. We have more instructions for do-it-yourselfers on our websites.

  • jennye
    17 years ago

    Hi Terrafina,

    I accidentally posted this already in the wrong column.

    I just had a licensed contractor look at the floors (I dont think the other guy was licensed). He gave me a price of 3k for 656 ft., which includes removing the tile. He uses a microtopping which has a 5 yr. warranty. The sealant is floric, a spray on acrylic sealer. He also owns a company in redondo beach, ca also. What do you think? This is the look I like, which he says he can do, although the color may not be perfect, in this bathroom add:

    http://www.lowcostplumbing.com/store3/bath-c-25.html

    Does this sounds like a good plan? The price seems affordable.

    Thanks,

    jenny

  • jennye
    17 years ago

    Oh, I forgot to add that he will not use an overlay.

    jenny

  • terrafina
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    I took a look at the photo.. is it the one with the very open bathroom.. lots of windows?
    Very nice.
    A microtopping and overlay are essentially the same thing. He will need to use good quality products. Make sure of that. Also make sure that he follows the application instructions.
    There are MANY acrylic sealers. Good quality ones should do the job you want, but again, they are not all created equal.
    Best of luck to you on your project. I hope it turns out even better than you envision!

  • tonig
    17 years ago

    terrafina--what are the websites you are referring to? I would like more DIY info on this. What is the difference between acid staining and regular concrete staining--is one better than the other? Also, we can wait two or three months to do this--is a longer time to cure better? We could even do the work after the house is finished in the summer.

  • terrafina
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    tonig,
    you can get to our websites for information by clicking on "my page" above.
    Regular concrete staining vs. acid staining? That depends on what you are calling "regular". There are a number of ways to stain concrete, with an acid stain, with water-based stain (pigmented sealer - and NOT permanent, so NOT recommended), vegetable based stains (may or may not be permanent, so you can get awesome results, or on the other hand, horrid ones), concrete dyes (may or may not be color fast). There is no benefit either way regarding waiting to do it, but the more junk that is allowed to get on the concrete, the more spots and blemishes you may have.

  • tonig
    17 years ago

    terrafina--thank-you for helping out with this part of our house building. Our contractors recommended me to use Brickform Dye-N-seal. I went online and pulled some info on it. We might try to put some color onto the floor this weekend. Then our contractors will seal the floor after. What do you think of dying the floor rather than acid wash? Did he recommend it because it is easier for a homeowner to do? What about the look of it? I noticed it is suppose to be absorbed rather than site on top of the concrete. I want to be careful here--I have seen a floor that looks like it has bubbled and would peel after awhile. I am stressed with all this--I'm ready to just have them seal the bare concrete. If we did that is there a very easy something we could do before the seal to improve the appearance? We did score 4'x4' squares. DH is so busy at work I think I'm on my own with this one. Advice--PLEASE! Thanks again.
    Toni

  • terrafina
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Toni,
    I haven't used Brickform Dye-N-Seal. However, I did look at the info on Brickform's website about it. It SOUNDS like it is a penetrating (non-surface) material, so it should not peel. However, I didn't see any info on UV stability, and how it may be affected by moisture moving through the concrete. The alarming thing about it is that its carrier is acetone. A cancer causing agent. Pretty scary. If you do use it, please invest in a good quality chemical respirator, and make sure it has the correct cartridges for acetone.

    If you are doing all of the hard work (staining is far more difficult and technical than sealing), why not seal the floor yourself? All you need is good quality sealer, an applicator, and a few hours time!

    Staining concrete can be very easy, or as with acid stain, it can be technical and you need to proceed slowly, and with care. I have seen people do pretty amazing things with non-traditional coloring agents. One that springs to mind, was a wine tasting room that had wood stain on it. It was wearing a bit, and the color wasn't exceptional, but it still was a very passable floor!

    Is there a reason you need to get this done right now? It sounds like you may be better off to wait, calm yourself, and think your options through. Staining is permanent (hopefully), so best to get it right the first time.

  • disneyrsh
    17 years ago

    I hadn't actually thought of this before, but here goes! I have a 37 year old house built on a slab.

    Currently in the kitchen there are two layers of vinyl type sheet flooring.

    I'm having them both tested for asbestos. If they do have asbestos I'm having the abatement company come in and remove the flooring and the mastic.

    They use a chemical to get the mastic up rather than sanding or grinding.

    Once they're done, can the floors be stained or will they be a total wreck, and I should just cover them up again?

  • tonig
    17 years ago

    terrafina--Thank you so much. I called our builders today and canceled all work on basement floor! They said they doubted there would be a problem with the bank (I asked them if there might be a problem if left unfinished). I can concentrate on other things and actually have fun doing the floor after we move in.
    We won't seal or anything now so we can keep all options open. Should we keep paper or plastic down for protection during the rest of the build? They have had both with particle board on top during the mudding/paint phase. But are taking it up to do the trim soon.
    I really appreciate your response. Talk to you this summer!

  • terrafina
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Toni,
    It's best to cover concrete with a material that will not trap moisture. Builder's paper (the red paper on rolls you can find at home depot), works fine, but can rip, so must be monitored.
    Don't tape anything to the floor, because the adhesive probably will stick to the concrete, and cause major headaches later. Instead, tape one sheet of paper to the next one and so on.
    I'm glad you decided to wait. Now you can get really creative!
    If you need a question answered this summer and I'm not responding (we get really busy then), please email me from my webpage.
    Good Luck!

  • terrafina
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Disney,
    The strippers that they are likely to use (mastic/adhesive strippers) won't prevent you from staining. They should not use any acid-based products, such as Muriatic, as that would preclude the acid-based stains.
    The problem that you are likely to run in to is that the adhesives have penetrated the pours, and are inhibiting the movement of water (and consequently - stain) into the slab.
    We have stained floors after removing adhesives, but it is not a sure thing.
    What sort of look are you trying to get? If very rustic, then you might be fine.

  • cork2win
    16 years ago

    terrafina, we should be starting construction on our new home in a month or two and I really want to do stained concrete floors throughout our main level (slab). Is there anything we need to tell the contractors to do (or not do) when pouring the slab to prepare for acid staining? We'll be doing the staining and sealing ourselves, and I highly doubt our contractor has ever heard of or seen acid stained concrete floors, so we'll need to provide them whatever information necessary. Also, we'll have tubing in the slab for future radiant heat... does that have any effect? Thank you!

  • ladyish2
    16 years ago

    Terrafina ~

    You sound like you have some great advice.... I'm hoping you can help us too? I hired a concrete guy (with recomnations) to acid stain our old floors about 1500ft. I pulled up carpet & saltilo tile. With all the paint & carpet glue he suggested an Overlay and I let him...... about 1/2 the job is done. So far I hate it! I went with English Leather from Cohills pro series. He started in the Living room & dining..... the floor now has a whitish haze to it & workers feet prints in the overlay.... He came back to do a hallway.... where they put fans on the overlay to help it dry.... I have several funky tan spots where I believe the overlay wasn't dry before the acid stain was put down.
    We wont be inviting him back to finish! Husband & I will redo the floors ourselves. Husband has done overlay in a outside 400ft room outside

    My ??? is ~~ How to fix the floor? Overlay.... can we do another overlay over what we have & then restain? I looking into using Kemiko Golden Wheat (possibly w/ a hint of Black) and a Satin sealer or Soy Crete Sandstone.

    I don't like shiny. I'd like my floor to have a contemporary/minimalist feel to it.

    Thank you, Michelle

  • cat_herder
    16 years ago

    Quick question:

    Following advice of our fellow experts here, I stained our concrete slab for 1400 feet of the floor in our new house. It turned out absolutely amazing. HOWEVER, I used therecommended acrylic sealer provided by Kemiko - 2 coats, rolled on with fine roller. When first completed, it was amazing.

    THEN, the painters came in, finishing carpetners, etc etc. Even with paper down, sawdust migrated under onto the floor. Long story short, now 7 months later, the floor is flat and dull. It looks like the acrylic sealer is mostly rubbed off or lost its sheen. And, it scratches so easily it's infuriating. My 2 year old son drags a plastic car across teh floor and it leaves abrasions on the finish. The Roomba turns in a little cirle and it makes circular abrasions.

    I was considering getting an epoxy self-leveling finish to put over it, but our Sherwin Williams guy says not to, becuase it "cooks" the acid stain underneath and can ruin its appearance. He recommends waxing instead. (He also said not to bother doing anything to the existing acrylic - either remove or recoat - before waxing. He said the acrylic has soaked in, and the waxing over the top as-is would be fine.)

    Bottom line - I want to put a sealer on the stained floor that will hold up to 3 little kids and heavy home use, with a minimum of maintenance. I dont want to have it dull again in 6 months, or be clearing out the entire downstairs to reapply every year, either. What do you recommend?

  • jeannekay
    16 years ago

    We are about to cover our stained floor for the painter to start. We stained it and put one coat of sealer on. What's the best way to cover it? We were planning on using house wrap as it comes in large sheets and we stained the entire house. But should we just butt paper up to the trim? Will no paint get under if they're painting the baseboards? The painter told us to cover it but tape it down. After reading here I'm thinking we shouldn't be doing that, but I worry about paint getting under the paper. I didn't know if we were ok to do that since we've already sealed it once.

  • mdc08
    15 years ago

    Question:

    We are pouring slab this week. Our stainer wants to "score" the whole slab prior to framing. I want "borders" in foyer-great room so that I can have a darker stain in the bordered area. If he scores the whole floor... this will not happen....right? I asked him about borders and he said he could do that....but what is your thoughts?

    Also, let's say we do not add borders and he scores the whole floor, when will he stain? after framing?

    3rd- I have a friend who has checker board finish. coke and coke w/black... looks lovely! Any other coordinating shades? Her installer used Kemiko products.

    Thanks for being there for us! :)

  • mdc08
    15 years ago

    Anyone.....haha! I really need feedback! I have to decide by Monday.

  • floorguy
    15 years ago

    I work for a few builders that when they know they are going to stain the concrete, they will score the entire slab before framing. If there are intricate designs or borders, they wait. They will have me come in after all the framing is complete, and cover the entire concrete with thin Tyvek, taping all the seams. That way the construction debris, and especially the painters and tape & floaters won't contaminate the concrete, making prep for stained concrete cost more then staining the virgin concrete, alone.

  • mdc08
    15 years ago

    floorguy: I decided not to score after looking at tons of pictures on the www. I think this way we can create various designs in the rooms. We have a large, high ceiling entry and would love your ideas for a design detail. I have seen many compass rose and it is sharp looking.

  • darthjenn
    15 years ago

    Anyone have experience with Soycrete? It's soy based concrete stain. I was considering it for my office and hallway.

    I must admit, however, that my slab is pretty beat up underneath the carpet. I don't think there are any significant cracks, but it's got plenty of paint and carpet glue. An overlay is out of the question because the slabs are flush with the hardwood flooring in the adjoining rooms. Very odd.

  • kelpmermaid
    15 years ago

    I used Soycrete on an outdoor patio 2 years ago. I liked the outcome, but it took longer to dry than anticipated -- but that could be user error. Anything was an improvement out there, honestly. I think I posted pix here somewhere...

    I would consider it for my entry, but I'm afraid to take up the carpet that's there -- once that's gone, I will have to move forward with doing something.

  • mdc08
    15 years ago

    We just poured our slab and have hair-like lines in it in places. They are not deep....is this common and what about staining them now?

  • nicksteel
    15 years ago

    We have a new home being constructed and wish to acid stain the concrete floors. Planning to use Kimico acid stain with sealer.

    How do you stain sections with different stains without having bleeding between the patterns? We plan to have a dark border around the walls with lighter "grooved" tile shapes in the center.