Getting rid of the Wal*Mart mentality would be a step in the right direction... IMHO, that is!

Green-based industries that are consistent, professional, responsive to the public across the board (and not just one party's public) and productive.

We absolutely need to pursue alternative energy. That is a necessity and would be a good industry to get started in this country - in a big way.

There are many options out there and I believe the best way is not to try to put all our eggs in one basket this time and pursue various ways. That will take independent minded and independent operating people. I truly believe the traditional energy companies and their lobbyists are going to make it hard to get any government action in this area - any that is really viable. I think the pressure to not pursue the development of devices for individual applications will really get ramped up - the energy companies do not want an independent, off the grid, bunch of people.

Solar and wind for sure - and it can be adapated for individual use.

Perhaps methane generators for large commercial farms, perhaps even small farms.

Using landfill garbage for generating electricity - either using the methane or the method of lasering it.

There are others being discussed as well.

Another would be recycling. There is really no place around here to recycle anything except metals and aluminum cans.

If you have land and water, certainly I think growing food is a very good idea for the future. People always need food.

Also, perhaps services or training in ways to help others provide for themselves. Perhaps teaching to grow food, sewing, canning, homebuilding/repair, energy conservation, how to reuse things, just some hard hitting plain teaching about money management would help.

As to what we can do politically - I think we really need to clean house in Washington and don't even think in terms of rep/dem, or lib/con. If we look at it realistically, we can see they have worked in tandem to bring about the situation we are in right now. It has rolled along for 50 years, or more, with different parties in power, in Congress, etc. We need good, honest, honorable people in office who put this country and it's people first. We may have to create those people, but I'm thinking we just need to make a way for those people to get in office. Right now, the two parties have everything so tied up, with the media helping them, a maverick (and we need them) doesn't have a chance.

To that end, I would say just go to the polls and vote out everyone in office - with perhaps a few, very few, exceptions. Then next time, keep only those who actively and truly worked and voted in the best interest of the country and it's people. We don't need any more people who simply offer their votes to the highest bidder.

Then we can become involved in politics, in volunteering at schools and other places where we can have an influence for the better. There are children who could benefit just from some extra attention, and from some incouragement and tutoring.

Don't be afraid of speaking out when something isn't right or is detrimental for fear of not be politically correct.

Just do the right thing ----

Throwing out(voting out) those rascals in DC would be a big help. But it would take a complete overhaul. Any "newbies" are not allowed to chair any committees. And the addition of pork - you add yours and I'll add mine and we both will vote in favor of that legislation is really a pratfall for us all. Unfortunately it takes money to run for office, and money is readily supplied by corporations who want favorable legislation.

Thanks for the replies...any more?

Oh, I know cleaning house in DC is just a pipe dream.

It would only be possible, if the people would close their eyes and ears to the call of the 'party' and just vote out anyone now in office. Then we could do it again and again - soon the money of the corportions would loose its power. The vote would, as it should, be the power.

You see, we could make them all 'newbies' and create a new party there.

On a personal level also, I think we need to work very hard to pay off all debts, and stop making any more.

As someone already said, loose the Wal Mart mentality. Buy only what you truly need and try to find it made in this country - another pipe dream. The more money we can keep here, the better off the country will be.

We also need to take steps to keep as much of our monies as we can. Consult someone knowledgeable in taxes and see what you can legitimately do to cut back your tax liability. Sometimes they can alert you to things you can do throughout the year that can help. There are ways ordinary people can take advantage of the tax breaks.

Throwing out(voting out) those rascals in DC would be a big help. But it would take a complete overhaul. Any "newbies" are not allowed to chair any committees. And the addition of pork - you add yours and I'll add mine and we both will vote in favor of that legislation is really a pratfall for us all. Unfortunately it takes money to run for office, and money is readily supplied by corporations who want favorable legislation.

I hear this a lot - "Throw the b-ds!" and of course "I don't trust those --- in DC". I was wondering what do you expect would happen if we voted out everyone who's there now and voted in a whole new Congress?

Don't get me wrong. I don't like the lack of leadership I'm seeing in DC right now but I'm not sure what wholesale replacement would do except send alot of people who haven't a clue how the Federal government works to DC. I've heard horror stories about how newbies want to remake the agencies and all they've done was wasted money changing the stationery without making any substantive improvements.

I think people have to stop playing the blame game and start thinking what they can and need to do. I like the lose the WalMart mentality idea - people (and not just in the US, I've visited Shanghai last year and the commercialism and materialism make the US look like 1950s USSR) are fixated on materialism. But easier said than done. I think people need to be given more substance and a greater goal than "getting the most stuff".

OTOH, this gross materialism is an outcome of a prosperous period. So, as we all go through the recession, this will force people to re-think what is really important in their lives. With less disposable income people will have to be more thoughtful about what they truly need. I don't think just saying "buy only what you need" is realistic because society has been pushing materialism for the past 30-35 years (post Vietnam seems to be the start - that's when credit cards became more prevalent).

I also don't think "buy American" is a realistic mantra (sort of like a retail "just say no" (to foreign goods). First there has to be American products people would choose to buy over imports. Surely there are people out there (maybe you or me?) who have the ingenuity and creativity to figure out new products and yes, services, that Americans would be willing to buy instead of WalMart goods. Steve Jobs did this when he cam out with the IPod and then the IPhone. The evil investment bankers did this when they invented the secured mortgage bonds. Heck, whoever came out with the Pet Rock in the '70s did it as well.

overthrow other countrys, take their resources.

I just don't know how new ones could do more harm that the ones in there now. While they may make mistakes with committees, departments, etc., and not know what they are doing. They just might also not know all the ins and out of taking the American people.

We shouldn't just vote them in and give them free rein. We need to tell them what we expect and if they don't produce - out they go next time.

During the bail out vote, I read the percentages of people wanting them to vote no was somewhere between 60-80% and they voted their pocketbooks rather than ours. I'm thinking if we had just cleaned house in Washington, the previous election, with a promise of doing it again, and we had told them to vote no - I'm thinking the outcome would have been different.

Or we can continue doing the same thing we are doing and voting the same old guys in there and hope they will suddenly become good guys. It hasn't worked for 30-40 years - but who knows.

Yes, as I said, buying American is a pipe dream - we simply don't make anything anymore. That should send chills down everyone's spine.

We could do more - we could let others know when we find an American product. With the internet, we could buy from anywhere in the US.

Also, we could try to persuade Wal Mart to begin buying American.

Imagine if half the people who shop at Wal Mart stayed out of there for a month?

Imagine of half the country bypassed Chinese goods, except for necessities, for a month?

Certainly those aren't the only things that can be done, and they may not be the best things. So do we think and come up with changes that can be made - or do we sit and find reasons we can't do things and continue to roll downhill?

The rampant materialism will change in this country - it will have to - unless some miracle happens worldwide. The consumerism of the past decade has been, to a large degree, because of credit card debt and home equity loans. When the credit runs out, and perhaps the jobs run out or hours get cut, people will learn to buy only what is necessary. They won't have a choice. It would be nice if we could start it now, before it becomes an absolute necessity.

overthrow other countrys, take their resources

Haven't we done that already -

I like Obama's plans to invest in infrastructure -- improve what we've got while creating jobs doing it.

I don't know what we can do to change from being a consumer-supported economy (75% of GDP is that). Some possibilities in using our land resources to export food to upcoming nations hungry for more/better foodstuffs. (I'd feel better about food exports than the present tobacco exports!)

There's something greatly wrong with health care when 45% of new jobs last year were in that field. We need health care, but it shouldn't have such a huge profit role.

Free market economics must be greatly modified by more regulation if people are going to trust again.

Citizens need to pay attention at the grass roots. Help finance campaigns and vote for representatives who will advance your causes, not merely seek re-election in order to continue feeding at the trough. I hesitate to back idalogues; we need people who can help create compromise enough to get things moving. Talk to your elected officials; keep track of issues. It's not just 'shouting down a well'. They need votes and they need to be able to tell their peers how many constituents do or do not support Bill XYZ. Reclaim your government!

If you support going into other countries with our armed forces, do you support a return to the draft? Some sort of national service? Do you want to continue to support other countries with dollars/guns?

It was evidently a great, carefree party. Time to clean up the debris. Back on the job of being *citizens* if we want to keep our free world.

"I think people have to stop playing the blame game and start thinking what they can and need to do" - jy_md "

Exactly why this thread was posted. Looking for positive answers and proposals.

Stop over-indulging our children. My DD was invited to a 7 year old girl's birthday party (they hardly know eachother). My child did not go but I heard from the neighbor there were 70 people there (adults and children!). She couldn't even open her gifts because it would have taken up too much time.

Sadly, this happens more than you think.

People need to make truly important things a priority instead of greed and material wealth. Of course there are all the lunatics who've been in positions of power who've walked off with millions as a result of their arrogance and greed. However regular folks want more and more stuff for themselves too - hence they want to be paid more - so they can enjoy a better lifestyle. Business, driven above all else to be profitable, finds ways to do that by getting work done by people in other countries (or legal/illegal immigrants) willing to work for less. That isn't going to change in a capitalist society. We may be heading in the direction of socialism though so that might change things.

I personally don't believe people who are excessively consumed by material wealth change unless they have some life altering experience that helps them see what is truly important in life. I think many people who lived through the depression had that kind of experience.

i support the draft, as long as i`am not being drafted, i support higher taxes, as long as i`am not included in paying them, i support anything that helps, as long as it dosent have any adverse affects on my life.

Yes, let's grow more food. I would like to see the government give more help to small farmers and perhaps small farmers forming coops. It would be much better to export food than tobacco - totally agree.

That's a startling figure for the healthcare industry. Is that because of overuse/abuse or are we just that unhealthy?

Yes, support your constituents, but as long as we have the seniority system in congress, anyone we put in, unless we clean house, will have little chance of getting anything done.

The infrastructure rebuilding sounds good - I'd have to hear the particulars before I decided it was good.

Being involved in other countries' business is not a good idea, I don't think - draft or not. If our country is truly in danger and we feel we need a draft again, however, I think it should encompass everyone - including the wealthy and privileged.

I don't know what 'playing the blame game' means exactly. In order to fix this country, we have to admit we have problems. We have to identify those problems before we can fix them.

As to more taxes, I wouldn't be against that IF our government was using the monies they already get to better this country.

We probably have enough regulations on the books if only they were enforced. Maybe close some loopholes.

Not knowing exactly what capitalism means these days, I do think it gets blamed for just plain greed. We have a lot of regulations, rules and laws, if enforced, would go a long way to fixing that.

We could revamp our welfare system. We should make it a system that helped when truly needed, but also helped people to become independent. If we helped people to get on their feet and be able to provide for themselves and their families, I think that would be a positive thing.

So we have the ideas of alternative energy, growing and exporting food. Those are pretty positive things, I think.

The fact is, though, we are going to have to have the cooperation of the government to do that - or at least they would have to not put stumbling blocks in the way of that happening.

Each person assume responsibility for their own families. Work, stop buying so many things we really don't need, take vacations, respect the people we work with, travel and meet in other areas, encourage our children to spend less time on computers and watching videos and read and have time to themselves just to think and develop their own minds, and stop blaming everyone else for their own mistakes.

The first thing we have to do is fix the trade inbalance, no economy can support a 100 billion dollar trade deficit each quarter. Anything we do until this is fix will simply be a momentary diversion and in a few months things will go back exactly like they are. We have to stop believing all this pie in the sky about free trade and a global economy. Things like NAFTA and all the other 1 sided sweetheart trade deals have to go. There is nothing wrong with free trade but it has to be fair. The simple fact is we are letting countries devalue ther currency by horrific amounts, dump the stuff made here and gut our economy. If we don,t wake up and do something soon America will go the way of the Roman Empire. Many po po this, however the similarites are very sinilair, let me point out a few. They had slaves, we have illegal immigrants who work for nearly slave labor. They had a service economy where nothing was produced, everything bought, their main industry was selling. They had their gladiators, we have pro football. They had a tremedous debt, look at ours.

Food for thought, there.

Sometimes in the past when I have mentioned the trade deficit some graduate of Econ 101 said, 'well, a trade deficit means nothing, I have a trade deficit with my grocery store'.

Another thing that sounds so good - and is absolutely meaningless.

Unfortunately I think it takes more economic knowledge than Econ 101 to understand the potential impact of our current situation. Significant trade deficit combined with declining value of the dollar as fed continues to print more money and go farther into debt COULD make it extremely costly to continue to purchase all those foreign goods that American consumers want - including foreign oil. In a really extreme case, the dollar could become so devalued that other countries no longer wish to be paid for their goods in dollars - they'd rather be paid in something else - maybe Euros. We don't have Euros - we have US dollars. No one wants dollars because US dollar is no longer a stable, valuable currency across the globe. We might then be forced to "buy American".

Having the government fix everything doesn't come at no cost. If there isn't the tax revenue to cover it - which there currently isn't - then it comes at some other cost. There is a cost to printing money to pay for these efforts to try to restablish the level of economic prosperity we've experienced in recent years - growth that was fueled by excess leverage (debt).

I still think we're going to have to accept a major correction (and pain) to get our economy grounded in reality vs. the house of cards that was built in recent years.

It,s commendable that the government is trying to do something, however throwing money at this problem won,t fix it. The cash infusiions may ease symptoms for awhile, however if the root causes are not removed problems will continue. Our economic problems are like an abcessed tooth, anti biotics can be injected and the swelling and pain will subside for a time, however if the tooth is not removed the condition will return and many times be worse. Our economy is no different we simply cannot continue to allow a100and up billion dollar trade deficit each quarter. We have to begin to develop some industries where things are produced and sold to others. The malls, fast food outlets and other merchandising establishments do not generate any new cash for our economy. Some try to point this out as economic growth, it is not. We probably have more fast food outlets, theaters and malls than any place on earth, thte local goverments and devlopers tout this as economic growth, yet we have to borrow money from China and Japan to keep our economy going. All I can say is we better wake up and put the brakes on where this trade deficit is concerned or we will sink below the level of a 3rd world country. I hear people constanly bragging about the quality of their imported stuff, tvs, cars, clothes and electronics. if some action is not taken to level the economic playing field all this will moot point we won,t have the money to eat let alone operate our imported cars and toys

gibby and iggie, I am in agreement with both and it is something that should have been apparent years ago.

Government money is just borrowed, printed money.
I would rather the government not be involved in any new ventures. The fact is, though, if they continue to take our monies and use it for 'business as usual' - then any new industry is going to be competing against government funded or assisted industries.

There is also the problem of the government being able to put unneccesary restrictions on new industries at the behest of the present ones who are paying off politicians already.

That's why we need a change in Washington - a complete turnaround. It's not that government should be involved - it's that they already are.

Government money is not the answer, really. We have been throwing money at education in this country for 40 years now and it continues to get worse.

So my idea is to change government - send them all home and replace them.

That's not the 'blame game' - it's just recognizing the problem. You need to fix problems or find a way to neutralize them if you want to get something done.

Whatever is done that is positive will have to be either done, or pushed and shoved, by the people.

Our city negotiated with an energy company to provide electricity at a lower rate if enough people agreed to use them for a year. It has resulted in a noticeable savings for us.

I have heard of cities doing that with gas companies as well.

So what if we could get together and get our cities to approach a manufacturer of solar systems, and see if they would bring the price down if a certain number contracted to purchase their systems?

Why couldn't people do that without the cities if the cities refused? I'm thinking the price of solar systems would decrease as the number they manufacturered increased. It usually works that way.

In the south, especially, I'm thinking that could make a huge difference in our heating costs, electricity needs, and the pollution problem. It just might keep the coal companies from destroying thousands of acres of land that is food producing land - land we will be sorely needing in the future, and the future generation of ash containing toxic materials.

Perhaps groups could get together and invest in such companies - maybe in a company to manufacture methane for large even small farms. If the animal waste could be converted to gas to be used in farm vehicles and heating, think of the savings in monies, once the system was paid for, and think of the pollution of our streams, rivers and lakes that could be stopped.

So - what do you think?

We are in quite a delimina many say we have too much government control, other say not enough. I think we all see what too little deregulation has done as well as too much . Needs to be somewhere in the middle. One thing for sure the big cooperations won,t police them selves and regardless of how much high sounding rhetoric is used about public service and them working for the public good, they will fleece the their customers at any opportunity. I was reading an article about the oil price gouge seems most of this was caused by a few speculators manipulating supplies, not any increased demand. Nothing was done because there is no regulations in place to prevent such. The present real estate and mortgage mess occured because of no safe gaurds> The answer is very elusive and there is no one pat solution> I think probably the first step would be to make all lobbying in Washington illegal. Next people should start to hold their elected representives accountable for their votes. One thing for sure the country is in a mess. First and foremost we have stop the drain on economy being caused by the sensless wars in Iraq and Afghanistian, nest we have to do something about the huge trade inbalance. possibly the ideas you suggest Lady Texan would help, they sure couldn,t hurt

You know which ever side we fall on, one thing we need to try to make sure - any future regulations should be ones that result in a more honest way of doing business. Also, that any regulation put in place for this should be enforced, strenously, and across the board - with real punishment attached.

We are in complete agreement regarding lobbyists.

As a country, I think are two biggest problems are energy and healthcare. We need to move beyond a petroleum economy. The fastest way to make the change is by taxing petroleum products. People drastically changed their habits at $4 a gal, imagine what would happen at $5 or $6. Cheap oil is not so cheap when you include the costs of the oil wars and military spending to protect the supply lines. I think the tax should be pretty big to make an impact maybe $2 a gallon. The tax revenue can go towards mass transit and alternate energy research/support. To discourage wasteful use of other energy forms we should move towards a btu tax on all forms of fossil fuel energy.
Household fuels (elec/NG, etc) can be taxed progressively, the more you use the higher the rates. In the current system, the more energy you use the cheaper it becomes for some. My electric rates decrease 20-30% after 1000 kwh of use. They should increase after 1000 kwh to discourage waste and not put an undo burden on the poor who spend a greater % of their income on energy. The revenue can go towards renewables, nuclear or clean coal (domestic sources).

The American way of life depends on cheap energy and energy is no longer cheap. We need to change our way of living to match the realities of the world. Most of us could reduce our energy use by 50% without a major change in standard of living. The good thing about being Americans is we have a lot of slop and waste in our system we could greatly tighten our belts without much problems if provided the proper stimulus.

Chris, we agree, we simply must curtail our dependence on oil.

Not to be argumentative, but a huge tax on gasoline would result in a curtailment, that's for sure, it would also result in higher consumer prices as well. In some instances, that would also be good, as we need to reduce our comsumption, period. The negative side of it is it would increase the cost of necessities - like food - healthcare - etc. Just about everything we use in this country, including necessities, is transported. It comes into the ports of entry and is distributed across the nation mostly by train and truck - using large amounts of fuel.

For some already, the price of food is really having an affect and fresh fruits and veggies are a luxury many simply can no longer afford. These are getting bypassed in favor of cheap, filling, chemical-laden foods that are not healthy.

Yes, the government is going to have to be involved with alternative energy, but not running it. They will have to be involved because they are involved in our energy situation now. They have been directing it for a long time and we have known since the 70's that we need to do something. Yet, all we seem to have is token help from the government - and of course, let's don't forget the silliness of ethanol.

They could put more money into alternative energy. All they need do is just stop with the pork. We need energy solutions more than we need a new zoo somewhere, or a teacup museum, or a new soccer field.

A man in this very small town I know got a grant to build a fitness center - although there were already 3 in town and the new hospital has one slated as well. This is a town of 4K people. Any thinking person could go through the budget and find enough waste to fund alternative energy.

So, if they just did that, I'm thinking the oil wars would not have been necessary. Rather than put the money into alternative energy, we are putting it into fighting wars for the oil companies.

This kind of thing is standard with Washington and locals as well. They can't be trusted to do what they should. Do we really want to put more and more money into their hands to actually use against us.

Also, coal is not the benign, clean energy they are trying to tell us it is. We are hearing all about clean burning coal. I'm not sure that is possible, but not knowing for sure, I'll just be skeptical.

I do know surface mining of coal is destroying thousands of acres of land in Texas that is capable of producing food - either meat or vegetable. It can, 99% of the time produce a crop or sustain animals without irrigation. That is becoming a premium in this country and will be more so as population increases.

Some of this land has been reclaimed for over 35 years, I haven't seen any of this growing crops, and for many years, it was used for nothing. I do see cattle on some of it now. They have planted pine forests which is better than nothing, but we can't eat pine trees.

It also destroys the shallow water table, wells for miles and miles, and I'm thinking it can't help but pollute with the run off and dust generated while digging. The lakes in this region are where many people get their water supply.

Then we do have to consider the byproducts - the ash spill in Tenn should give us pause.

I do agree we need to tighten our belts - all of us - everyone of us could cut back in some way.

Just think if everyone cut back one tank of gas a month - or one tank of gas every other month and invested that money with an alternative energy company.

Just think if we stopped purchasing the unneeded imported items and stopped the use of fuel to transport these, and put that money toward investing in alternative energy.

If we did that, we, the people, could do it without taxes, and without the government. The only thing we would need the government to do is to stay out of the way and let it happen. If they weren't running the show, the chances of their giving contracts and sweet deals to their cronies or relatives would be greatly reduced.

Again, not meant to be argumentative - just something to think about. Your ideas would probably have a better chance of happening than mine. In this country, we have a hard time getting together and doing what needs to be done - or even deciding what needs to be done. That's why the government can step in a take over, often causing more problems than they solve.

HONOR.
Pronunciation: \ˈnÉr\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French onur, honur, from Latin honos, honor
Date: 13th century
1 a: good name or public esteem : reputation b: a showing of usually merited respect : recognition
2: privilege
3: a person of superior standing Ânow used especially as a title for a holder of high office
4: one whose worth brings respect or fame : credit
5: the center point of the upper half of an armorial escutcheon
6: an evidence or symbol of distinction: as a: an exalted title or rank b (1): badge , decoration (2): a ceremonial rite or observance c: an award in a contest or field of competition darchaic : a gesture of deference : bow eplural (1): an academic distinction conferred on a superior student (2): a course of study for superior students supplementing or replacing a regular course
7: chastity , purity
8 a: a keen sense of ethical conduct : integrity b: one's word given as a guarantee of performance
9plural : social courtesies or civilities extended by a host

RESPECT (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/respect/)
Respect has great importance in everyday life. As children we are taught (one hopes) to respect our parents, teachers, and elders, school rules and traffic laws, family and cultural traditions, other people's feelings and rights, our country's flag and leaders, the truth and people's differing opinions.

Not all Honor definitions are applicable to this discussion, however, read through them.

It is not uncommon to want more for our children than we had, and that is especially true of those of the depression era. However, it has ballooned past the desire of having more to eat, better (and warmer) clothing, and education.

Our own technology has been used against us. Television broadcasts good and bad shows. It is not only some 2-income families that allow their children access to all; the progress of the internet has done the same.

Honor and respect have been pushed aside for the "self". We don't want Jimmy to feel bad because he struck out, so he is given a round of applause. We don't want Jane to feel depressed because she failed the test, even though she did not read and study the material, so she is given a star for coming to class.

We have allowed honor and respect to be taken from the schools. Don't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance - oh, okay. We don't want to offend anyone.

How many failures did Edison overcome? He classified that as "I know how not to make it" instead of failures. Would he have continued trying in today's society?

I am as guilty as anyone for allowing our Congress to cheat America for their own greed. (Greed has always been around, and isn't going anywhere) Complaining to our neighbor while doing nothing else accomplishes just that - nothing.
Sure, I was busy being a wife and mom and working and doing all the things that were right for my family. I even voted after studying the candidates records. I didn't follow up. I didn't see if that candidate voted the way he had promised. I didn't write letters. I didn't make calls.

Today, with the internet we have much more opportunity to discuss with others across the country current issues and government actions. This is what we are doing now on this forum. We also have to make a great effort to email, write letters and telephone en masse to our legislators and newspapers. We need to constantly remind them that the government legislators are our employees. Only in government can we not fire those who do lousy jobs. Sure we can impeach, but that is a difficult and lengthy and often non productive approach.

We need to be involved with not only our children but the children of others. We need to stand up for our beliefs. As in the 70 guests party, we don't have to follow suit. We can have a party and have guests bring items for the animal shelter or homeless shelter instead of gifts. Then take the guests to the location so they can see how their items are helping others. (make arrangements with the shelter first so they can give the children a tour)

Greed through materialism or through power, conquering lands, is not an American anomaly. One can read history to see that. It will be difficult to change the command of those at the top. We can only try. And continue to influence our peers and children in a positive way to be honorable and respectable of ourselves and our country.

How does keeping kids off computers improve the balance of trade? America's not going back to smoke-stack manufacturing, the family farm, or kindly family doctors who make house-calls. If anything, I'd encourage kids to get more familiar with computers, how to start and run a small business, and how to invest conservatively.

Healthcare is going to be a business run like franchises, and MDs are going to be replaced by lower-cost nurse practictioners and medical assistants.

Prattling on about reducing our consumption sounds great, but Americans enjoy a high standard of living because of those consumer goods. A cure for cancer or a new energy source isn't going to be developed by some kid in a mud hut.

Wow ideefixe you misinterpreted my post. I don't purport removing children from computers. I am saying that violent video games, and some internet sites and some television shows do not show respect. How does playing a video game (or online game) that gives rewards for stealing cars or shooting others create anything positive? Even non-violent games can create pastimes that provides mindless activities, that discourages the free thinking that is necessary to create new ideas, jobs, etc.

Is that really all you got from my post?

I understood what Calirose was saying. Kids aren't spending that time on the computer learning about science or cancer or even computer programming. Most of the time, they are playing very violent games, or chitchatting with other kids. That won't get us to a cure for cancer either.

Healthcare already is run like a business and in some instances, like a franchise. There are hospitals that have their own healthcare insurance. In certain parts of this state, one large hospital owns or operates the hospitals in smaller towns. There are many physician's assistants and nurse practioners now. That is happening already.

Our consumerism will be curtailed - we can do it willingly and relatively painlessly or we can do it because we choose between plastic geegaws, or food. It really is that simple.

Some things grabbed my attention this week.

1. While wading through the internet looking for money saving, recycle type things, I came upon a web site in Finland that quoted a blogger in the UK. This blogger has some interesting figures, and talks about perhaps the demise of the recycling of used clothing due to the quality of the clothing. The idea being that the clothing is of such poor quality, it simply is not worth even recycling, reusing, or resaling.

This I believe as I do know we are getting less than quality merchandise. If buying more and more cheap quality merchandise is a higher standard of living, then perhaps we do. That's not really my definition.

2. There was also the story of cities and states considering selling off the infrastructure to raise revenue.

I don't know about others, but this disturbs me. There was no mention of foreigners purchasing our infrastructure, but here in Texas, some foreign corporations already are operating toll roads. Should we be concerned that they will also control our very drinking water.

I'm thinking these governments have plenty of waste they could be trimming, before they turn over our water supply, etc., to private, and quite possibly foreign companies.

Also, it just flitted across my mind, will the future president put all the money into rebuilding the infrastructure in order for the governments to sell it off. Are we simply going to be spending billions to fix up the infrastructure before we put it on the market?

3. Another thing that hit me tonight. I went to Wal Mart, yep, I did spend a lot of gas and time before I did, looking for the sodium carbonate for making laundry detergent. I have been to every store that might possibly sell washing soda, even looked for pool supplies at the grocery stores.

The left over Christmas in that Wal Mart filled the entire lawn and garden area. I mean shelf after shelf after shelf, still full and overflowing and it has been on sale for 2 days at half off. I have never seen so much leftovers from Christmas.

Just some interesting things that stuck with me.

Thank you, ladytexan. I didn't think I was that confusing!LOL

I stopped at WM to pick up a few grocery items. Christmas items were indeed filling the shelves. Actually very few shelves showed much in the way of items being sold. And that included toiletry sets, etc brought in for gift-giving, not just decorations.

Also, several party trays of cheese, apples, etc were in the produce section. I didn't check the dates, but I don't think they were new put out for New Years eve, but they could have been.

Clothing was made better in the past. I have clothes I have worn for 20 years. I gave my aunt who is smaller built than I am, some clothes many years ago and she is still wearing them. Classic styles is what I prefer, otherwise a pair of jeans around the house or for errands.

I am concerned about the infrastructure also. It definitely requires maintenance. However, I remember quite well how entries and ports were offered to Dubai. I am hoping that the said infrastructure doesn't include the I69 that was to allow direct traffic from Mexico to Canada. What a fiasco that is. Allowing trucks full of ?? to enter the US without checking them, but allowing gps type monitoring by Mexico or whomever. Can't you just see those trucks scattering through the states ready to detonate? Or, filled with chemicals to pollute our waters? You can believe that we have attended town hall meetings, written our congressmen and expressed our disapproval.

Ihave 2 grocery stores near me. One is Walmart, the other Kroger. Now Kroger requires a card, so they can track your purchases, in order to buy items on sale. Otherwise they are at least 30%-50% higher on their items. I only shop Kroger for a good sale. So I do shop WM for groceries, paper goods, and prescriptions. I don't like that I haven't another choice, when I lived elsewhere we had some mom and pop stores and shopped there when we could.

Yes, the good old days.When clothing was much,much better...However, like anything else,this is a misnomer..Sure, some products in the old days(60's and 70's) were a better quality then some of todays clothing quality..However, just as much was worse...There are many lines of clothing made today that are significantly better then what was made in the "hey days" of yore..Unfortuneately(or fortunately ;)) it can't be purchased at Walmart or Target, as in those stores, you get what you pay for...Usually poor quality

gdognj, Of course, I go back farther than the 60's and 70's, so I'm talking quality. We were very poor people, very poor, When we bought things, they weren't high dollar, but my Mother would not have spent a dime on the quality of clothing in the stores today. The quality of the cheapest priced clothing when I was growing up cannot be had today by the average person - at least I haven't seen any.

The problem here is that the quality of merchandise available to the average person today is just not as good. WE can try to convince ourselves it is, but it just isn't. It isn't whether the wealthy can get quality, but whether the average person can.

Even in the 60's and 70's, there was Penney's and Sears. They sold very good quality, good priced merchandise. It was things an average, even poor, person could buy and expect it to last for a very long time. The quality of their merchandise is not nearly what it was in the 60's and 70's.

As newly married, we could purchase 100% percale cotton bedsheets at Penneys. The 100% cotton sheets sold today even at higher prices is just nothing compared to that.

My husband could buy 100% Pima cotton undergarments that would last years and stay white.

I don't shop much for new stuff - but I do see a lot - an awful lot - of used clothing. I see everything from Wal Mart to Neiman's and the quality of yesterday is just not there.

We can click our heels together three times and say it over and over, but it just isn't.

As far as quality of the clothing, I think it is difficult to compare it to yesteryears because attitudes towards clothing have changed. Many, many people like to follow the trends so why put a lot of extra effort into making the clothing if after 1 or 2 seasons it will be going to a thrift shop anyway. That is a far cry from when you would get 1 new dress a year.

For truly well done clothing, you can find fabulous quality but it will cost you a pretty penny but in our casual lifestyles, most of us do not need something that well made. Yet, I can still find jeans for $20 (on sale) that will last me several years and are great for my every day life.

I honestly cannot fathom how America could be fixed when there would be very little consensus on what is actually broken but it would certainly have to start with every individual in the various roles that we play, consumer, employee, employer, citizen, etc.

tishtoshnm, You do have a point as to our disposable society. Many people don't want things that last - OR - did we become a disposable society because things weren't lasting. It seems some clothing is not even reusable as rags or manufacturing - only clogging landfills.

So if things get tough, and people can't satisfy that urge to be trendy every year and what they have has turned to rags - what are we going to do?

But it isn't just outer clothing - it's underwear, socks, small appliances, large appliances, tools, lawn mowers.

There was story I read about the man who was head of some tool company. He said he had discussed with Wal Mart carrying their line of lawn mowers. He talked of thinking what a tremendous increase in sales that would be.

Then he said he realized in order to meet their price demands, they would have to cut quality - materials, etc. That was something he just didn't think they should do. So, he decided the company would not do it.

He did say that perhaps the epitaph on his tombstone might be , 'Here Lies the Man Who Turned Down Wal Mart'.

What has happened to that man or that tool company, I don't know. But it is what happens when Wal Mart makes a deal. The consumers loose.

You are also right that we can't seem to reach agreement on what is wrong - this thread certainly proves that.

My opinions probably are the most gloomy and suggest some tough actions need taken. That is one end of the discussion. The other is that everything is fine, we are living better than ever and we don't need to fix a thing.

Now mine may be a little extreme, fearful. I will own that one. We may not need to go to the lengths I think. One thing I do know for sure, we can't continue to pretend everything is OK and make no changes. If we do that, the changes will be made for us.

When we have given up our decision making processes to the government, lawmakers, and corporations - we have gotten the healthare and education system we have. We have gotten the financial industry we have.

Yes, it will take all of us doing our part - but there is no way the corporations or the politicians are going to change on their own. We have to make them change by our actions. It has to start with us.

I like to view America as I view any other country. It doesn't have to be the biggest or brightest to make me proud - it's the country I was born in, that's enough for me. Other countries try things that seem to work at solving some of the worlds problems. We just seem slow to adopt these new ideas. I'm not sure how to change that but I sure wish we were more progressive about things.

I believe the day will come when everyone will have to face up to the limits of all the worlds resources. There is only so much drinkable water, there is only so much breathable air, resources are limited and human populations will have to control their exploitation of things and not have a mad dash to last supply of goods. America will have to determine just how many people this country can support, how much urban area and how much farmland. It won't really matter how much we want or need - we will have to look at what we have and avoid stepping over that line. All the other countries will have to face this reality also. It is the only way towards long term survival.

In a way the current economic mess is a great thing. The system was never going to last forever, it was doomed to fail at some point. By letting the house of cards fall apart we have the opportunity to rebuild in a much better way, to learn from our mistakes, accept that there are limits, live within our means, stick to a budget.

I don't believe there is anything or any business you can start right now that will be immune to the problems we have. The best plan is to sit tight and ride it out and hope that things change for the better.

I also don't believe all the doomsday news I hear. The people facing extreme changes in their lives are the people that had a lot, and now have nothing. The people that never had much to begin with haven't noticed much of a change. There is "drama" in reporting on the newly poor - but these people were gambling with borrowed money. I have trouble being sympathetic for their situation. How did hard work become less important? I was never going to have what they had, I never wanted to do what they did, I never identified with them and their problems. Its as if they were living in a different world than I am. I hope they can adapt.

We need to stop responding to politicians who incite irrational fears of 'socialism' anytime government regulation is invoked.

We need to get past the "Not Invented Here" reaction and look at how other nations have already coped with problems we are only now recognizing.

This country has been all about Take, Trash and Move On for over 200 years. Now we're running out of virgin territories -- something that happened a LONG time ago in other nations. Let's look at how other countries have adapted and be open to using some of their ideas instead of thinking we are so different. There are plenty of other First World nations where citizens live well with greater regulations: Energy, Health Care, Child Care and Education, GUN Control! ETC. We are too eager to stick a 'socialism' label on any and all regulation.

Maybe it is easy to stick a label on not only regulations but even ideas. And 'socialism' seems to be the word of the moment. It does feel like we are edging to socialism, with the government bailing out the financial district, auto companies, and national health. And, we have to wonder if the deregulation was put in to play in order for those systems to fail and allow being at least partially taken over by the government.

ladytexan, speaking of clothing..I worked at a factory that sewed clothing. The same cloth, the same pattern, was cut and sewed and different labels were put on according to which retail the garments were being sent. Sometimes the variant was the color, and occasionally the cloth itself was varied. But the MAIN difference was where the garment was being sent, ie Dillards or Kmart.

There is nothing wrong with gun control. Guns should be registered and a process for acquiring one should include a background check. However, if law abiding citizens are not allowed guns, then only the criminals and police/army will have them. Allowing citizens to have guns is to keep from any military governmental state of control.

If we could get our 2 party system, along with the few Independents, to quit pointing foul at each other and to instead focus on what is right for America we would not be in our current state of events.

trianglejohn, I agree with a lot of what you posted. However, it is not only those who had a lot and have lost it that are feeling the crunch. Middle America has been the backbone of this country and with job outsourcing to other countries along with green carders coming in to take tech jobs and illegal immigrants not only taking jobs but robbing America of its social and medical services; Middle Americans are getting squeezed out. My husband will be losing his job (along with all other workers there) in the spring of 2009. At 61 he has worked hard and we have been preparing for retirement - now he is too young for social security and medicare and too old to secure any other employment that might be available 'somewhere'. We have never been trendy in racing out for new cars, tvs, cell phones, blackberries, etc.

It may sound like a 'doom and gloom' attitude, but I believe DH and I will be okay as long as a serious illness doesn't occur. And, I think we are much better off than many of the others who hadn't been trying to prepare for retirement. I am just not sure how many people are going to be able to sit tight and ride it out.

calirose - I'm sorry your DH is being 'retired' before time. My DH had that happen, but with a small pension. Even younger, he was still 'too skilled, too old' and unable to find another job with comparable responsibilities or pay. At least his former employer is still doing well and his pension is secure. We had savings, and now that we are both collecting Soc. Sec. and have Medicare, we are OK. Wish you well!

You and I seem to agree about most of what's been posted in this thread, but I have to part company with you over guns. No other First World country has the murder rate we have. The difference is guns. They all have criminals, just as we do, but when guns are illegal fewer individuals have them. Their governments have not experienced military coups. Our democracy has much more to fear from complacent citizens than from military takeovers! The days of a sixgun and the Wild West need to be gone and buried. (It was pretty awful then, too -- probably not so different from the record killings of teenagers we have in the inner city of Chicago today.)

Thank you Sue for your well wishes! We are trying to be positive thinking but realistic. Sorry you had to experience first hand this dilemma, but glad to read that you pulled through it and are doing ok now.

I have mixed feelings about guns. I am unfamiliar with other country's gun controls. I am curious if you have any info I can review about the murder rates and guns.

My father and brother were both military, and my brother has also been in Bosnia and Iraq. Both were/are for legal guns for citizens. Now I also have a couple of personal experiences against guns:
1. While walking down the street in NY city (30 yrs ago) about a block ahead we saw a bottle come crashing to the sidewalk and a figure appear firing 2 or 3 shots into the business (?). Then he turned running toward us. We ran diagonally across the street, I turning to pull one of the 4 who was frozen) and as I did, noticed the gunman turn up a side street/alley.- criminal activity

2. While on a picnic at a farm, we were shooting at targets.
We had stopped to eat and one person picked up the 45 twirling it as seen in westerns. As the remainder (practically in unison) shouted not to, the gun went off and I actually HEARD the bullet whiz by my ear. It went between myself and the person sitting beside me. -noncriminal activity

So that, coupled with incidences of hearing of people shooting themselves when cleaning, loading, or putting away the gun, doesn't necessiarily negate private ownership of guns - however I do believe in background checks and PROPER TRAINING!

I definitely agree withyou about complacent citizens being of more harm!!!

First, thanks to all who responded to "America - A country in decline." You all have made a great contribution to the discussion.

Regarding fixing America:

1) Denial is not just a river in Egypt. Don't sit back and do nothing while politicians here advance thier self-serving agendas and sell the country down the river. It's later than you think, and we need more help than you think.

2) Study and learn from history. When the British Empire started to wain, xenophobia was rampant due to bombings inside the tube. Isolationism was policy because, after all, the 'Empire' didn't need/want friends from the rest of the world. Therefore, they had few when they needed them the most. They became the financier of the world as a way out of thier decline. Needless to say, it didn't work.

3)Don't be a mental midget. (I know you people aren't) but many in this country have little idea of what's going outside of thier living room. They can tell you all about the 20 ingredients for a stew, but can't find Lesotho on a map or why more clothing is getting imported from there.

Chicago has already recorded its first homicide of 2009. It's a perfect illustration of the problem with a society where everybody has a gun. The death was result of a bar fight: One man shot dead; one man shot and wounded. Absent guns this typically *stoopid* altercation would almost surely have left both men hurt but alive. They would have socked one another, possibly used knives. Nobody would have died.

All the licensing, gun locks, waiting periods and training in the world are meaningless when lethal weapons flood the market and are as available as gum to every jerk on the street. The police can't take 'em away or stop the flow. The NRA puts profit ahead of life.

Do you all know that when you select this thread, that you can depress the "end" button and arrive at the bottom of the thread? Then use the scroll to go up to the last post you have read and start reading. Just some FYI.

This thread was meant for realistic approaches to action towards getting America back on its feet. Therefore, I will only say this about guns: My uncle was stabbed to death; he fought back and was stabbed several times. It wasn't a gun that did him in. Those who commit violent acts will do so with WHATEVER weapon they can.

xminion, your comments are exactly what is needed. People need to wake up that history repeats itself. The British Empire, as well as several others (Babylonian, Greek, Roman, Persia), fell. However, notice how the Euro is taking over as currency. They are wanting a global economy as well.

A global economy is what is happening to America and one reason so much of America has disappeared. It makes us more dependent and reliant on others instead of being self-reliant and more self-sufficient. It causes a drain on our resources (manufacturing and technology) which in turn leaves Americans unemployed or earning low wages. Our trade balance is in a huge hole.

didn't know the "end" key feature..Thanks..I also learned if you hit "home" key it brings you back to the beginning of post