JM - You have posted several times now about problems with this builder, forcing him to fire incompetent subs, cabinets not arriving until the day before the loan close date forcing a bank extension already, etc. I can't imagine a builder bringing framers/insulation subs, etc., back to finish work left undone, not without it costing somebody extra. As Beagles said, these are all red flags and he seems to be adding more by his actions, not removing any. I would not pay him any more money until I was satisfied with his answers as to why these aren't getting done and his specific plan for finishing them, including completion dates. I trust you are getting signed lien waivers for all subs as well. You might also want to have an experience real estate lawyer read over your contract so you know what your options are. I was concerned when you replied in your other thread on your construction loan problems that you weren't concerned about a new appraisal for closing on the permanent loan, "if there is one". There should not be any doubt on this point in your loan papers, if there is, I'm sure your bank will require one. Maybe your market is immune, but most areas have seen a double dip in housing prices with changes in loan-to-value. Good luck!

this conversation is mostly dead, but i wanted to sound my two bits. my credentials, i am a financial planner. first i hope you did not sink you money into the stock market. i have been in cash for almost a year now and i am no market genius (those who are still in have been shorting the market and making millions all year). it is shocking how many "planners" and brokers urged their clients to "invest for the long term" and hold in the market. if your planner or broker has been saying this this last year, you should fire them. the stock market is not a long term investment. in needs to be watched daily and adjusted daily. money is never lost in the market. it only changes hands. if you lose somebody else won. the winners are those who know what is going on and adjusting their strategy daily. if this is not something you can do, hire somebody who can, get out, or suffer the cost of ignorance as those who know (major investors and fund managers) take your money. Second, i hope you did not bury your cash in a coffee can in the back yard�"in other words, pay cash and hold no mortgage. paying cash is a very expensive way to own a house. the reason being you are burying you money. you will realize appreciation but that is pointless from the standpoint of cash flow and you have to sell to get it. this money could have easily generated more than the cost of holding the mortgage. there are also tax savings on the mortgage debt if you pay it off. this is know as a lost opportunity cost. it is as real of a figure to be calculated just as an fees or interest paid. example: if i pay no interest i loose nothing. right? wrong. i loose out on what i could have done. if i could have made 8% and it cost me 6% for the mortgage i made 2% plus tax savings. FYI i am a lazy investor with most my money managed by others and i make (yeild not average) 24% with no loss of principle risks. with effort you can do better. for me to have this money in my house would be a compounding loss of 18% plus the loss of my mortgage right off. cost of money is important, but is just part of the equation, not the answer to it. the spread or the margin in the number that matters, not the cost. paying off a mortgage can cost you your retirement. the most important part of any financial plan is time. if you spend the first half of you career paying down a mortgage rather than investing, you are shorting yourself. paying down your mortgage faster is almost as bad. mortgage interest is front loaded. you only get the promised rate if you go the term. pay it of faster and the percent paid is higher. what i would recommend people do in such a situation is pay it cash and forgo all the fees associated with financed closings. then immediately after, open a HELOC for the maximum amount possible and start looking for ways to reinvest and grow that capital all the while controlling the real estate. there is no cost to have the HELOC and usually no fee to open it. you can go in and out as much as you want and use it like a private bank. leave non working mey in the realestate, but have access to it to use for opportunities. you only pay interest on what is out and are only required an interest only payment. my house equity actually pays for the house debt and then some because it is working. right now would be a great time to have access to those funds. real estate and stock investment are all on fire sale. if you don't understand the market find someone who does. if you don't understand real estate, read some books and attend some seminars. if you are lazy, look into hard money lending or payday lending for 18-36% interest. buy some rental properties and cash flow them (rents are on the rise) and reap even more tax advantages. there are so many great places to earn money on your money rather than "burying" it. I would recommend the same with permanent life insurance and even investing some funds in it. just do something, actually do lots of different things. risky? i think keeping the money out of the banks control is the best way to minimize risk. give it up to the financial institutions and they will happily follow the the model i am recommending only they won't be sharing the profit with you. to most, this sounds like terrible advice. well most people in this country are not wealthy and have no idea how to become such. learn to act like a rich person, not by spending like one per se, but by understanding that money is not math, it is a commodity and needs to be treated as such. you cannot park it nor can you settle for small returns. personal financial models are worthless. you need to learn business finance principles and apply them to you personal finances. this is then main difference between the wealthy and the non. it is not the amount of money the have (net worth) it is about how much they have to spend (cashflow). many rich people are terribly poor on the books but have plenty to spend. why is that? they understand money and the laws that govern it. your first dollar should be spent on education. build a network of advisers and mentors and for goodness sake don't listen to the talking heads and radio "gurus". if they are so good at making money, why are they working for a radio station and who is paying the bills (banks and investment houses who want your money buying ads). all that said. this opinion is based on the person applying these principles being trustworthy with money. if you can't discipline yourself, pay off the house and invest in a 401k. if you are disciplined, stay away from both. books i would recommend, eye openers all of them: rich dad poor dad (kiosaki) who took my money (kiosaki) LEAP (castiglione) killing sacred cows (gunderson) sorry for the rant and the poor spelling. some of the philosophies presented, even by those with letters after their name were disturbing to me. such advice has cost millions of people billions of dollars this year. any wanting a larger book list or wanting to discuss any of this "crazy" advice further, feel free to contact me off forum or invite me into another discussion. i love this topic and love to offer my opinions. the fee i charge for personal planning advice is zero. one of my personal beliefs is that you don't pay for financial advice. i do what i do because somebody once taught me and i am paying it forward. so you can dismiss any hidden agendas. my opinions are what i personally believe and practice but by no means the only way to the goal. great discussion all-even those i disagree with. thanks for the thread and the interest in helping each other. kendal.liddle@gmail.com

Just a heads up (with no political comment intended and please no political comments in response). One of the things proposed in the debt ceiling negotiation are lower rates but with a reduction or maybe elimination of certain deductions including the home mortgage interest deduction. I have no idea whether that shakes out or not, but If it does happen, it would favor paying off home mortgages earlier. Now, regardless of what happens, my opinion is that in general -- and there are always exceptions -- paying extra towards a home mortgage when you can is good fiscal discipline even though when you run the numbers their may be a slight advantage the other way. The only things that probably should come first, other than are higher interest rate debt ( if any) emergency reserves and retirement savings. As others have said, a debt free home is very liberating. It's also an emotional disincentive to overextending by trying to keep up with the jones. It's easy to rationalize moving into something more expensive if you've got a mortgage and moving up will only cost x dollars a month more, it's much harder to go from no mortgage even to a small one. Now this is where exceptions come in especially depending on where you are in life like a growing family that really need more room, but generally I think folks are happier with a mortgage free home, than one that may be slightly nicer/bigger. Kymike does make a good point on flexibility. That's why when we bought a second home, after our primary was paid and the kid was out of college and with 45 percent down, we went with a 30 year mortgage, but ran a second amortization schedule for a ten year payoff. We're ahead of the ten year track slightly, but have the comfort of knowing that if bad times hit we will be okay. This also disciplined us not to over extend inthe first place and will have it paid for 4-5 years prior to retirement. It's also kept us more frugal on other nonessentials but those are sacrifices we can live with.

I will warn you now, you got me on my soapbox.... Pay in cash. I was raised, if you can't buy it, you can't afford it. Luxuries are to be bought, not finanaced. In this day and age, that is hard to live by and is not always fun. Not that you are in this situation, but as a society, we live in a "I want it now" world and finance ourselves to our eyeballs. We have friends who make good money, have pools, cars, elementary kids with cell phones, kids closets full of Abercrombie/Limited Too, dirt bikes, boats, etc and they own nothing and make payments on everything. Lending institutions and commissioned sales people (sorry to those of you who are not like this) do not have your financial interest at heart. The more you spend, the more you borrow, it's better for their pocket, not yours. When you are encourage to spend more...run/turn the other cheek. Don't give power to others over your wallet! On our pool build this year (shot-crete on Tuesday), we lacked 15k for paying in cash. All we wanted was 15k loan and based on our FICO (over 800 each) and our home equity, the lending institution ignored the request for the amount at a locked in rate but instead, wanted to give us a 90K credit line with a variable rate. Of coarse, you only pay on what you use but come on! Variable rates go up. And steep sometimes. All these home forclosures all over the country-the majority were variable rates, not fixed rates. I'm sorry, but that is encouraging someone to get into dept. That really chapped our hide. The loan guy was not selling us so his manager came over to hard sell us. It felt so cheasy and slimy. Getting in dept is a huge epidemic these days anyway. Lending institutions are not looking out for you. Don't fool yourself that they are. I say, figure out on paper your absolute monthly expenses with no luxuries and make an emergency fund. That should be your untouchable savings. Do not use up the majority of your liquidity for a luxury. Then, find the money to pay for the pool. If you have to save for another year, so be it. Rice and beans, beans and rice (as Dave Ramsy says) Discipline yourselves to pay a monthly payment to yourself, instead of a bank, to rebuild that account. We ended up cancelling the loan application and cashed in part of an investment. While at first we were tentative to do this, we now feel soooooo good about writing the checks for our build and know that we own it NOW, not in 10-15 years with variable interest rates. My pool will go without pretty lawn furniture this year. I found $5 foldable strap lounges at WalMart. It'll have to do. What I want I need to buy at the same time so it all matches, so I am saving for next year. Ok, I'm off my soapbox.