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After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depression?

Posted by dreamgarden (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 19, 08 at 13:53

This article confirms my feelings about the bailout. It has nothing to do with saving America (or the taxpayers). It will be interesting to see if Mr Celente's predictions come true.


After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depression?
by Linda Moulton Howe-© 2008/Earthfiles.com

“This Wall Street bailout is really taxation without representation.”
- Gerald Celente, Editor and Publisher, The Trends Journal


On October 9, 2008, Gerald Celente, publisher and editor of the highly respected Trends Journal issued a Trend Alert headlined: “Washington Bailout A Bust. Depression to Follow.” This week I asked him why a Trend Alert about an economic depression when the American government seems to be doing everything it can to hold off financial collapse?

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Interview:

Gerald Celente, Editor and Publisher,
The Trends Journal, Rhinebeck, New York

Gerald Celente, Editor and Publisher, The Trends Journal, Rhinebeck, New York: “All they are doing is throwing good money after bad. This is unprecedented. This isn’t the United States of America. It’s now the United Soviet States of America. They are buying banks, brokerages, insurance companies. We (U. S. government) now own the world’s largest insurance company! And mortgage companies. And they are doing it all with taxpayer money. So, anyone with a little common sense, Linda, could figure it out.

If the boys on Wall Street botched a deal before, what makes anyone think that the inept people in Washington are going to pull it off any better? They are not. What they (government bureaucrats) have better than the scammers on Wall Street is that they (government) has unlimited funds from the U. S. Treasury by taxing the people and taking all the money they want to do their deals. So, nothing good is going to come out of this. All they are doing is bailing out the preferred shareholders, the foreign banks that have loaned the money all on the backs of the American people. This is a ‘Foetus Tax’ in the sense that generations are going to have to pay for this. This will do nothing, nothing! to stop the economic depression that is coming. All it will do is bailout the ‘too big to fail’ companies.

WHY DID THE DOLLAR GO UP DURING THE CHAOS?

Gold went down, the dollar went up. The markets are so highly manipulated. There are reports coming out of banks shorting gold positions by the hundreds of thousands trying to keep gold prices down. There are reports of people lining up in Europe and other countries to buy gold and cashing out.

Because when people realize that their paper is not worth the paper it’s printed on and people start going into gold, the whole system could collapse immediately. So, they are doing everything they can to prop the dollar up and to push gold prices down. They are propping the dollar up also, so that the people that are in dollars that want to get out have an opportunity, such as the Chinese and all the other foreign banks that are holding so much of the dollar debt.

WHO HAS THE ABILITY TO PROP UP THE U. S. DOLLAR?

The central banks because remember they are in control of the printing press. So you have coordination between the world central banks and the Federal Reserve and they are trading heavily into the markets to keep it going.

SO, THE CENTRAL BANKS MIGHT HAVE MORE EFFECT ON WHAT’S HAPPENING WITH THE DOW NOW THAN JUST NORMAL STOCK INVESTORS?

Absolutely! The game is rigged. It’s being rigged in broad daylight and we see it right in front of us.

Goldman Sachs has now taken over the White House with Henry Paulson in Treasury. When they had the A. I. G. bailout, the biggest financial insurance company in the world. They just got $85 billion and just asked for another $40 billion and we taxpayers just paid for a half million dollars worth of perks for their A.I.G. Commissars to go to the resorts like they used to do in the Soviet Union.

Do you know who the only person sitting in on that meeting was outside of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve? It was Blankfein from Goldman Sachs! It’s criminal activity from top to bottom.


WHAT DOES THAT LEAVE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WITH IN TERMS OF ANY KIND OF POWER TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM?

It leaves them with anger and when they are broke and desperate, that’s when denial no longer rules. Denial, by the way, is still pretty prevalent among a lot of people. But when the reality hits and they see how bad things are, you’re going to start to see tax revolts. It’s going to start taking place at the local level. People can’t afford these school taxes. They can’t afford the property taxes. I mean it’s a joke! Property taxes keep going up and they keep re-evaluating. But when the value goes down, the bureaucrats don’t lower the taxes. What is going on here? People are not going to be able to afford it and that’s when the tax revolt happens and that’s what we are going to see.


What Could 2009 America Look Like?

YOU HAVE BEEN SO ACCURATE SINCE 2007 IN CALLING EXACTLY WHAT HAS UNFOLDED IN 2008. COULD YOU HELP THE GENERAL NORTH AMERICAN AUDIENCE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TRENDS JOURNAL AND INSTITUTE WOULD SEE IN DETAIL AS WE GO FORWARD NOW FROM OCTOBER 2008 TO OCTOBER 2009?

First, we have to remember there are many wild cards that are thrown on the deck that nobody can ever anticipate and that’s why nobody can really predict the future. You can see the face of it, but you really never know what’s going to happen (in detail).

Having said that, there might be wars. Geopolitical tensions are always coming to light just as happened this past summer with Georgia invading South Ossettia and the belligerency shown by the United States on behalf of Georgia in support of their invasion. So that was the beginning of a new Cold War. How is that going to play out? We’re not sure. But here’s what we know, for example, about that. We know when that happened, the Russian stock market collapsed and it has not recovered since. So, the Russians are very angry at America for having instigated that war, as the Russians believe. So, we don’t know all the geopolitical tensions.

If things remain constant on the economic and political fronts, what we’re going to see in the beginning of the New Year 2009 is a very cold winter. February and March 2009 are going to be very, very bleak. We’re going to see the depression really start to set in.

WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF A DEPRESSION?

We don’t go by unemployment numbers. They reached almost 25% in the last Depression of 1929. Now, there will be masses of working poor doing two to three jobs just to make ends meet, plus you’re going to have a lot of people unemployed as well �" probably in the 15% level at least. Again, the numbers are cooked all the time because what happens is that once a person is no longer looking for work and their unemployment benefits have run out, the government no longer counts them as unemployed!

Again, the United Soviet States of America! Just as the bureaucrats don’t include energy and food into the core inflation numbers.

Mall and Retail Store Collapses

This whole notion that we need a Wall Street is a fallacy because Wall Street killed Main Street by giving all the real estate developers money and special tax breaks and grants given by the cities and states to build all these huge malls and outlets that have sapped the vitality out of Main Street. That vitality is going to be re-invigorated and it’s going to start now in the New Year 2009. You’re going to see more vitality spring up in the dead areas because we’re only talking now in the media about the financial collapses. Let’s start talking about the retail collapses that are going to follow soon. You’re going to see big name retailers buckle under and go under. You’re going to see malls become ghost malls.

Desperate People, Tent Cities, Rise in Crime

It’s going to be very bleak. Very sad. And there is going to be a lot of homeless, the likes of which we have never seen before. Tent cities are already sprouting up around the country and we’re going to see many more.

We did a piece about self-storage units really taking on the true meaning of their name. People are going to start living in these things and it’s going to be better than living in a tent out in the street or risking your life in a homeless shelter.

We’re going to start seeing huge areas of vacant real estate and squatters living in them as well. It’s going to be a picture the likes of which Americans are not going to be used to. It’s going to come as a shock and with it, there’s going to be a lot of crime. And the crime is going to be a lot worse than it was before because in the last 1929 Depression, people’s minds weren’t wrecked on all these modern drugs �" over-the-counter drugs, or crystal meth or whatever it might be. So, you have a huge underclass of very desperate people with their minds chemically blown beyond anybody’s comprehension.


Tax Revolts

WILL THIS COUNTRY EVER CHANGE BACK TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE THIS CORRUPT COLLAPSE?

There will be a revolution in this country. It’s not going to come yet, but it’s going to come down the line and we’re going to see a third party and this was the catalyst for it: the takeover of Washington, D. C., in broad daylight by Wall Street in this bloodless coup. And it will happen as conditions continue to worsen.

We’re very confident of that because as we look through history �" tracking trends is a way of understanding where we are, how we got here and where we’re going. Throughout the entire 19th Century, and even into the early 20th Century, the major issue was the central banks taking over the country. That’s why you had people like Andrew Jackson. It’s been a major issue since our founding fathers and will continue to be. This is only a temporary take over.

BUT HOW DO THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE NON-WALL STREET PEOPLE GET ENOUGH LEVERAGE TO HAVE A REVOLUTION AGAINST A CORRUPT WALL STREET AND GOVERNMENT IN TERMS OF THEIR PRIORITIES?

The first thing to do is organize with tax revolts. That’s going to be the big one because people can’t afford to pay more school tax, property tax, any kind of tax. You’re going to start seeing those kinds of protests start to develop.

From that taxation issue because that’s what’s going on right now �" this Wall Street bailout is really taxation without representation. It worked before; it will work again. That’s what we see as being the glue that brings this third party movement together because now it’s not a question of becoming involved because it’s a political or ideological belief. It’s in your pocketbook. It’s staring you in the face. People cannot make ends meet. What are they doing? They’re going around begging to bailout disenfranchised Wall Street executives?!?

No, you’re going to start seeing the revolution and it’s going to take the form of tax revolts.


Main Street Renaissance?

You’re going to see a lot of changes that are going to make it better for the average person. The system right now is built on too-big-to-fails. There’s not enough money in the world to save them. So, we’re going to see a Renaissance as well. Something old is dying and something new is being born.

DO YOU MEAN THAT THERE COULD BE SOME SORT OF REJUVENATION BECAUSE PRICES WILL BE FORCED DOWN TO SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE CAN HANDLE?

The prices will be forced down, but we’re going to go through a period of hyper-inflation the likes of which we have never seen before. The government is just printing money on a daily basis. They are just manufacturing it out of thin air! So, we’re going to see hyper-inflation, the kind you used to see in Argentina and Brazil when they went through currency crises. The prices are going to go lower, but in real dollar terms, it’s still going to cost a lot.

Where the change is going to come about is that people are going to start re-thinking about what consumerism is about. That’s the real dynamic change. You can’t buy what you can’t afford and don’t need. That’s going to be a wake up call. You don’t borrow to build. You only build with profits.

So, as that happens, we’re going to see more community spirit. The small towns that made this country great in the first place are going to re-emerge. With that, family, friends, relatives �" a whole different structure starts taking place rather than doing it all on your own, you don’t need anybody, you can make it to the top mentality. So again, something old is dying and something new is being born.

Socialism of America

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT APPEARS TO BE BEING BORN IS LIKE A COUP D'ETAT SUDDENLY IN OCTOBER 2008, IN WHICH ESSENTIALLY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES TOOK OVER THE FINANCIAL COMMUNITY IN WHAT IS BEING DESCRIBED ON CNBC-TV AS THE ‘SOCIALISM OF THE UNITED STATES FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS.’

I call it a communism! It’s communism when you have state-controlled monopolies running the largest businesses. That’s not socialism. Socialism is something for everybody out there. At least you would get health care and education and other benefits.

This now is communism. Instead of the commissars from the Communist Party, they are bringing the people in from the Wall Street party. In socialism, you get to vote. In communism, you don’t. The majority of the American people were against the bailout. According to all the research, it was running 100 to 1 against. People were calling their representatives, but the representatives don’t represent the people. The representatives did what the Party wanted. So, it’s really communism and why I call it the United Soviet States of America.

SOME BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE EXPRESSING SHOCK AT THE RAPIDITY WITH WHICH THIS HAS OCCURRED.

There are honorable people out there. Not everyone is a thief or a crook. This is just the beginning of the movement. People don’t know what to do. There has never been a galvanizing issue before (for an American revolution). This is it!


2009 Inflation

THE PRACTICAL ISSUE OF PRINTING ALL OF THIS MONEY TO GET US OUT OF ONE HOLE PUTS US IN THE INFLATION HOLE WHERE PRICES ON GOODS IN THE UNITED STATES �" THEY MIGHT BE AFFORDABLE TO US, BUT IF WE TOOK OUR MONEY OUT INTO THE REST OF THE WORLD, TO EUROPE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT EVERYTHING IS GOING TO COST US THERE IS OVERWHELMING AND PEOPLE WILL STOP TRAVELING?

Oh, absolutely. It’s already happening and it’s just going to get worse. We have to understand that even the numbers the federal bureaucrats are talking about - $700 billion and $250 billion for the banks, it’s peanuts compared to the credit default swaps, which nobody knows what the heck they are, including myself. They are $ 353 trillion dollars. I mean, you can’t make up a number like that! That’s only in credit default swaps, the derivatives.

Then you start looking at commercial real estate. When is that going to collapse? When are all the over-built stores? We have been over-stored in this country for over a decade. So, you’re going to start seeing a huge commercial real estate collapse.

The sub prime problem is only about $ 2 trillion at best compared to the rest, but it’s an easy target because the bureaucrats can blame all those irresponsible little people for borrowing more than they should have.

How about all those leveraged buy outs such as the Carlisle Group, Blackstone, Cerberus �" they bought things like Chrysler and that Hilton chain with no money down! That’s where a big unraveling is going to come.

BUT IS THIS GOVERNMENT IN THE NEW PHILOSOPHY OF SOCIALISM GOING TO ALLOW THOSE CORPORATIONS TO COLLAPSE? OR ARE THEY (BUREAUCRATS) JUST GOING TO KEEP PROPPING EVERYTHING UP IN THIS KIND OF ALICE IN WONDERLAND WORLD?

They are going to try, but it’s not going to work. This is a temporary fix. They don’t have enough money to do it.

The only power they have is to print cheap money; the more cheap money they print, the worse hyper-inflation gets; the worse hyper-inflation gets, the more people become angry; the angrier people get, the more tax revolts; and that’s when we’ll see a new system. This country was built on tax revolts and it’s going to happen again. We’re only at the beginning stages of this change.

You talked about an Alice In Wonderland world, if private enterprise messes it up as bad as they did (laughs), who in their right mind would think a government that has only proven Katrina quality rescue skills can do something better? I mean, we’re losing two wars. Our health care system is in shambles. Our education system no longer wins, places or shows worldwide. They still have a hole in the ground where the World Trade Centers used to stand. The levies (New Orleans) have not been fixed. And neither have the voting machines!

When we went through the 1929 Depression, Wall Street was hated! They didn’t recuperate until the mid-1950s. So, we’re going to see the same thing. There’s going to be a huge government backlash, particularly for the Democrat and Republican parties and against Wall Street.


Back to Main Street to Survive?

As I see it at the Trends Institute, what is bad for Wall Street is good for Main Street. Wall Street only helps the too-big-to-fails. They don’t care about the rest of us. And we see it over and over again in their CEO pay or whatever greedy thing it might be.

So, now you have the butcher, the baker, and even the shoemaker start to thrive again. I could imagine a small shoe company and you could have people supporting it because they don’t want to buy shoes made by slave labor overseas.

So, we think this could become a real Golden Age of America. It could become the epicenter of the Second Renaissance. That’s what we’re pushing for.”

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The George Washington blog has compiled a list of quotes attesting to Celente’s accuracy as a trend forecaster.

“When CNN wants to know about the Top Trends, we ask
Gerald Celente.”

" CNN Headline News

“A network of 25 experts whose range of specialties would rival many university faculties.”
" The Economist

“Gerald Celente has a knack for getting the zeitgeist right.”
" USA Today

“There’s not a better trend forecaster than Gerald Celente. The man knows what he’s talking about.”
- CNBC

“Those who take their predictions seriously … consider the Trends Research Institute.”
" The Wall Street Journal

“Gerald Celente is always ahead of the curve on trends and uncannily on the mark … he’s one of the most accurate forecasters around.”
" The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

“Mr. Celente tracks the world’s social, economic and business trends for corporate clients.”
" The New York Times

“Mr. Celente is a very intelligent guy. We are able to learn about trends from an authority.”
" 48 Hours, CBS News

“Gerald Celente has a solid track record. He has predicted everything from the 1987 stock market crash and the demise of the Soviet Union to green marketing and corporate downsizing.”
" The Detroit News

“Gerald Celente forecast the 1987 stock market crash, ‘green marketing,’ and the boom in gourmet coffees.”
" Chicago Tribune

“The Trends Research Institute is the Standard and Poors of Popular Culture.”
" The Los Angeles Times

“If Nostradamus were alive today, he’d have a hard time keeping up with Gerald Celente.”
" New York Post

A link that might be useful:

www.earthfiles.com//news.php?ID=1485&category=Environment


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

..In volatile times these alleged experts appear all over the media and "predict" the future..just to add some "light" to this futurist's philosophy,here is a partial article i read:

Since Infowars could not be bothered to perform even the most rudimentary act of journalism, the time has come to see if Celentes record truly cuts the mustard.

In May 1993, in a story about fiftysomethings losing their jobs written for the Orange County Register, Celente was quoted. He was advising IBM at the time during a period of downsizing. What was Celentes golden advice? He informed displaced executives to "go for some kind of counseling." Asked to comment on this situation, Celente offered the same doom and gloom boilerplate that hes telling us today: "The Industrial Age is ending. All the systems are breaking down and that means disappointment and disillusionment for the people who grew up in the 50s." He elaborated, "These people believed in the Ozzie and Harriet way of life. That concept is dead. So is the concept of retiring at 65." These were hardly prescient or specific thoughts, but they were certainly dramatic enough to make it into an Orange County newspaper.
Why not get topical? Lets take Celente on a more specialized subject like restaurants. In 1993, Celente predicted "growing demands for take-out food, high- and low-end restaurants, and restaurants that offer live entertainment. Middle-range restaurants with mainstream fare will suffer." Aside from the fact that Celentes prediction accounts for about 90% of restaurants, doesnt the fact that human beings need to eat remain a comfy ledge to launch a prediction?
In 1998, Celente told Money Magazine that, as the population grows older, "Americans will be spending more time at home than ever before both for pleasure and business." Imagine that. You grow old, retire, and then you suddenly have more time. How the hell did Celente know?
In the September 21, 2000 edition of Newsweek, the great futurist weighed in on mindless chores. Why are they called mindless? "Your mind cant be going all the time." And when any problem becomes bigger, it becomes bigger than burnout. "Its road rage, its air rage, its Columbine, its stress and people dont get it." Im wondering if its also the kind of impulse that will cause you to make impetuous predictions about the United Statess future.
Asked by CBS News in May 2005 to comment upon where Dillards planned to go, Celente had this to say: "There is nothing Dillards has that you cant find in 1,000 other places. America is vastly overstored." Take out "Dillards" and sub it in with another department store chain name, and you begin to see what little Celentes remarks say.
But if were in for a future of doom and gloom, Celente has been sending us some mixed messages. He told the Associated Press in May 2005, "The bottom of the luxury market is not going to fall out."
Talking with the Associated Press in September 2005, Celente suggested that Wal-Mart could deflect its negative image with its philanthropy. Thats hardly a stunning insight. Any positive action has the probability of causing a company to look good. This is rudimentary probability. But what profound thoughts did our great seer tell the AP? "We try to refrain from making value judgments what the motive is. But the fact is that [Wal-Mart was] there with trailer trucks being turned away. Amazing, isnt it?" Amazing indeed. Presumably, the AP reporter who talked with Celente did so because the reporter needed somebody to describe the situation as "amazing" or "magnificent." Some casual modifier that might be confused for profound thought.
Celente was asked to weigh in on Internet trends by the San Francisco Chronicles Patricia Yollin in December 2006. "People are more electronically connected and less humanly connected," opined our great psychic. And if that general piece of advice wasnt enough, Celente also took the time to badmouth public displays of affection, pointing out how unacceptable it was to put PDA in "techno jargon." Perhaps Celente confused PDA with another type of PDA, but what he didnt seem to tell the reporter was that acronyms have existed long before the Internet.
Here you have a history of a man who not only makes his living spouting this generalist nonsense at corporations, but who is listened to by the media. If we werent all scared $hitle$$, this wingnut would be chased out of boardrooms and newsrooms with pitchforks.


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Fraud

The trendmeisters have spoken, and the news isn't great.

The Trends Research Institute releases its "Top Trends 2006" today, the 15th report of its kind from the upstate New York-based social, economic and political trend forecasting think tank. Despite favorable predictions for labor unions and environmental concerns, Americans are headed for a culturally and economically dismal time next year if these predictions are on the money.

One surprising trend, says research institute director Gerald Celente, is that this generation is looking back in time for inspiration, a backlash against the poor quality of recent movies and music. "When the baby boomers were growing up," he says, "they didn't look back to the past -- the politicians, the actors, the music -- for guidance or to find their own voice." But this generation is finding "heroes in Lennon and Dylan. This is a first in American history."

Other predicted trends:

*The survival business will boom for the first time since the Cold War as Americans perceive their government as incapable of protecting them from terrorist attacks and natural disasters.

*Technology will continue to empower self-reliant, "off the grid" survivalists, who will seek to avoid payment of fuel, water, electricity and telephone bills.

*Citizen-driven movements for states to break away from the union will arise.

*Global sales of products "made in the USA" will suffer after media coverage of Hurricane Katrina, which greatly damaged the world's view of the United States.

*Online TV, the ultimate in media convergence, will signal the decline of the communication industry's monopoly on broadcast news and entertainment.

*Real estate values in rural areas will continue to rise as it becomes fashionable to downsize from mega-mansions to log cabins.

*Entertainment that pokes fun at the consumption habits of the wealthy elite will become popular as reality TV's projection of "real life" becomes increasingly inaccurate.

*A new American labor movement will boost union power for workers in the lowest strata of the U.S. economy.

*Hometown economies will benefit as fuel costs soar and consumers become less willing to drive farther to do their errands; if a pandemic such as bird flu hits, people will patronize local merchants to avoid crowds.

*Discovering reliable new sources of alternative energy will be the primary drive in science and invention.

*Americans will address environmental concerns such as global warming, food safety and recycling.

(c) USA TODAY, 2005

Yep, this guy is a genius!!!!!! what a crock...


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

I agree, this is just another of the "doomsayers" that hog whatever media attention they can find.

I'd be really surprised if 98% of people abroad would know what "Katrina" means to Americans!


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

I see a lot of things in the list with which I agree.

I think people are going to , once again, look for alternative, private sources of energy. We began that during the shortage of cheap gas during the 70's - then it just got forgotten.

That people will begin to shop in their home towns - I think that's a very good possibility.

That people will move to the country - not because they want to live in log cabins. I think there will be a desire to grow one's own food, live simpler and cheaper and be somewhat apart from the crowds.

The interest in country property is already increasing, but it is still too high for many people to be able to afford it.

If discovering new sources of alternative energy is not one of the primary drives in science - then we are a truly suicidal and foolish bunch of people. It is an absolute necessity.

I'm not sure we will be interested in global warming, but I do think food safety had better be an issue and very, very soon - and recycling as well.

Whether or not there will be a revival of unions or not, I can't say. I will say this, the unions are already enrolling the illegals - and they are going to be even more a force in this country in the very near future.


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

"BBB" = "Broke Bankers' Bailout".

Not that it pleases me ... but I agree with quite a lot of what he says.

But if there's 15 - 20 - 25% unemployment, the workers won't join a union ... too afraid of losing their job.

If they threaten a strike for better pay ... working conditions ... whatever ...

... the employer'll say, "Go ahead - I don't need to advertise ... all that I need do is start a rumour that we're hiring ... and there'll be a hundred guys/gals at our door looking for a job tomorrow morning".

Ask the Koreans ... the Chinese ... the Viet Namese ... the Indians ... the Mexicans ...

... want more examples?

The West ... the East ... wherever ...

... it's the big shots that call the shots.

Not very democratic, that.

We've heard a lot about "freedom" and "democracy" - by which we meant of the political variety.

I haven't heard much about "economic democracy".

We've developed a number of huge corporations ... that have been pretty well making the rules.

Their much vaunted market system only works well when there's real competition ... but the corporations hate competition on their own level: will do whatever is needed to get rid of it.

An unemployed, homeless person ... doesn't have much freedom.

ole joyful


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

joyfulguy,

I agree to some extent. I do know, though, that the unions are enrolling illegals. What that means, I don't really know. Whether they will be manageable for unions or not, I don't know.

But I do agree that the corporations are calling the shots and employers will be able to pick and choose. Actually, they have for a very long time for some jobs.

The corporations have been calling the shots for tech workers. In other words, the government has imported workers for them and allowed them to get by with not following the rules.

We also know the government has protected illegals and they are doing many, many jobs that Americans want, would do, and were doing.


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

I'll take exception,to some extent, with ladytexan's view of..

illegals and they are doing many, many jobs that Americans want, would do, and were doing.

There are MANY jobs illegals do that Americans don't want an part of..How about landscape help,or household cleaners, or car wash workers,restaurant help,etc...These jobs are available ALL the time,recession or not, yet small business owners can't fill them without the immigrants...I can't tell you the last time i saw a landscape crew that wasn't hispanic,ditto for restaurant help..And it's not like these workers aren't making any money, as they are fairly compensated for their work..
The problem is we Americans don't want to work hard for our money,it's kind of below us to wash dishes,cut lawns etc..
The outsourcing of jobs to India,while i don't like it, makes financial sense to the companies that do..The world has become a global economy,not one that solely revolves aroundt he US..Do you think foreign country employees are happy that Toyota/Audi/Bmw/Nissan has built several auto plants in the US..Why did they do it? Because it made financial sense


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

Oh, gdogni. I tried to make this short, but it can't be said in a few sound bites.

Who was doing the jobs before the illegals came? They were being done.

Have we been quick to buy the idea that Americans don't want to do these jobs because we, ourselves, wouldn't want to do them? Americans have done jobs for many years I wouldn't want to have to do. I would do anything I could do, if necessary, but I do have my 'druthers.

I wish you could have talked with the young woman I just spent time with the other day. She was almost in tears because she was pretty sure she was going to loose her jobs because the company had just brought in a new group of illegals. She commuted 60 miles - one way - to work on the assembly line of a chicken processing plant. I've been just in the office of a processing plant and my stomach lurched from the smell. It's a job I don't want to have to do - but others have for many years. She said, in a shakey voice, 'I've just got to have this job.'

The shocking thing she told me is, if this company lays someone off, not fired for reason, but laid off because of slowdowns, etc., they will only rehire you one time. That means you can be rehired, but if laid off again (because a batch of illegals come in) you are no longer 'qualified' to work for that company. By way of their hiring practices, they are creating 'unqualified' workers in the area. People know to not apply for the job again.

So when the news media goes to the spokesman for that company he/she can say things like 'we just can't find qualified workers', or 'we just haven't had any applicants' or the old stand by 'no one wants to do these kinds of jobs'. Neither they nor the media are going to tell you they fixed the situation.

When you see jobs being filled by illegals - the only thing that means is they have the job. It means absolutely nothing else. We don't know how many others applied for the job, and didn't get it. One thing you have to realize is that in many areas, people are aware that only illegals will be hired, and they don't even apply.

I saw illegals building the houses that got built in the frenzy of the last few years. Can we assume that Americans no longer wanted to do carpentry, dry walling, electrical,plumbing, bricklaying?? I don't think so. I know a lot who wanted the jobs.

They are a bargain to employers because the employers have no responsibility. They don't have to comply with overtime laws, collect and match taxes, worry about OSHA regulations, workman's comp. If one gets hurt, they are taken to the hospital and the taxpayers pay for it.

The media and the politicians are not giving out the true story on this.

Now the reason I mentioned illegals was the fact they are working here. Americans already are competing with them for jobs, and if things get bad, it will be even more so. There is nothing wrong with mowing lawns and bussing tables, but that is not the only jobs they are doing. We will be hampered by the fact employers will have to work within the labor laws when hiring Americans, so given the choice, they will take illegals.

The illegals are also getting benefits that are going to be needed for American families who loose their jobs.

Again, just because Americans aren't doing the jobs, don't assume they won't or don't want to - now - but especially in the future.


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

ladytexan, You ask who was doing those jobs (landscaping, restaurants for example )before foreign folks took them over - I'd suggest that alot of them were being done by high school and college kids. And, from the kids I know today, there is no way in the world kids would "lower" themselves to that level of job. Most of the youth of this country expects to get a job, get promoted within 3-6 months, and make $50000+ within the first year. That addresses part of your post.


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

Did the young people suddenly just stop working? Did they just stop wanting jobs - all of them?

I can tell you - no they didn't. They were replaced by illegals and illegals were hired over them. Why would they continue to look for those jobs when they know illegals will be hired over them.

In the small town where we live now, there are very few illegals and young kids and retired men do the yard work here. Now if some illegals comes along pushing a mower and offers to mow the yard for 1/2 what the others do and enough people hire them, someone will be talking about how lazy the young people in our town are.

Some of this work was being done by young people, it was also being done by mentally and physically challenged people, retirees, etc.

The same goes for restaurant work.

Again, however, restaurant and landscaping is really a small percentage of the illegals working here. It's the one always used, but they are working in many, many other jobs that, again, Americans do want, need, and will do. The mantra of 'we can't find anyone' is just spin.

There are lawsuits going on now because of hiring illegals over citizens that prove that.


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

I'll repeat myself,but i know of no illegal aliens taking a job that an american wants..The majority of jobs they take are labor intensive,low pay, and menial type work...

What type jobs,ladytexan,do you see illegal aliens taking?

I'm fairly certain they aren't working for Fortune 500 companies...and if they are taking jobs from Americans,who do think is hiring them?...I'll save you the time,it is AMERICANS who hire them...So go easy on the immigration issue, because without Americans hiring them, they'd not be working here...


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

I see them working in banks, mid management grocery stores, doctor's offices, retail, school aides, truck drivers, plumbers, electricians, bricklaying, concrete work, highway construction, grounds keeper for a country club, etc.

Then, of course, there are the poultry plants where the young American woman is afraid she will get laid off because they have brought in a new batch of illegals. She can only be rehired once after a lay off and then the company won't rehire her.

I don't want this to get too far off from my original thought. I posted about the illegals in reply to someone's thought that we survived the recessions of the 70's and 80's and this will be no different. This is a different country from that time - and the addition of so many illegals competing for jobs, services, etc., is one of the factors.


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

there is NO way an illegal alien is working in a bank or any other publically traded company


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

You mean any company that is traded on the stock exchange?

I don't want to carry this on for much longer. These things tend to make others uncomfortable.

If you believe that, please I beg of you, do some research.


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

I'll be that many of those undocumented workers are cleaning the bank.

Doing the cleaning, laundry, etc. in your favourite hospital ... and publicly traded companies, as well, no doubt.

Question: When I drive at the speed limit on the freeway and have scores of vehicles pass me ... does that make those drivers "illegal"?

Further question: When the lenders allowed/encouraged their staffs to write those stinky mortgages to unqualified people ... then assembled them into bundles and peddled them to other unsuspecting lenders ... were they acting illegally? Probably not. How about the workers, whose bonuses depended on their productivity? Almost certainly not, for them.

When things are going well ...

... the capitalists want the government to leave them alone, to get out of their hair ... to let them regulate themselves!

Then, when things go bad ...

... they come whining ... to get the government to bail them out!!

"You have to ... or everything will go to ruin!!".

My Dad used to say, "You mess up - it's up to you to fix it ... or be careful not to mess up in the first place!!".

When I was younger, I heard, "If you owe the bank a million ... and can't pay - you got a problem!! When you owe the bank a hundred million and can't pay ... the bank's got a problem!!!!".

It seems that wasn't the whole of the story!

Now, it seems ... the corporations have taken over the government(s)!

Am I missing something, here??

Have a lovely weekend, what's left of it!

ole joyful


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

working IN Fortune 500 companies, absolutely, as they are likley "employees" of subcontractors,who "bend" the rules when it comes to hiring..Employed BY Fortune 500 companies ,where their paycheck is signed by that company,very rare,unless of course they have forged documents, then how would the company know?


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RE: After Wall Street Bailout, Is Main Street Headed for Depressi

"My Dad used to say, "You mess up - it's up to you to fix it ... or be careful not to mess up in the first place!! Now, it seems ... the corporations have taken over the government(s)!"


Sounds right to me. Banks screw up and get REWARDED with taxpayer money instead of going to jail where they belong. No justice here. Crime pays!

Here is more news about how U.S. taxpayers are being torqued.


"FHA-BACKED LOANS-The Next Subprime Crisis Looms
By Chad Terhune and Robert Berner
11/20/2008

The same people whose reckless practices triggered the global financial crisis are onto a similar scheme that could cost taxpayers tons more.

As if they haven't done enough damage. Thousands of subprime mortgage lenders and brokers -- many of them the very sorts of firms that helped create the current financial crisis -- are going strong. Their new strategy: taking advantage of a long-standing federal program designed to encourage homeownership by insuring mortgages for buyers of modest means.

In April 2007, Goldman Sachs purchased a controlling stake in Senderra Funding, a former subprime lender in Fort Mill, S.C. Goldman, which has received $10 billion in direct federal rescue money, converted Senderra into an FHA lender and refinance organization. The strategy appears likely to produce hefty margins. In September, Goldman paid 63 on the dollar in a $760 million deal with Equity One, a unit of Banco Popular, for a batch of subprime mortgage and auto loans. Through Senderra, Goldman plans to refinance at least some of the mortgages into FHA-backed loans. Because of the government guarantee, it can then sell those loans to other financial firms for as much as 90 on the dollar, according to people familiar with the mortgage market. That's a profit margin of more than 40 percent."

A link that might be useful:

www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,591613,00.html



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