What you're talking about is what we've had in Canada for a very long time - in fact, I've never heard of an ATM-only card. Ours are called debit cards and are also used for ATM's, and it never occurred to me that I'd get mixed up using it (vs my Visa or others), but it's the most used card I have and I believe more Canadians use it than anything else. It's great, because instead of losing track of your Visa purchases - and then getting a shock when the bill comes in - you are instantly debited when you buy something, but don't have the dangers of carrying cash around... the point of the whole thing really. We love them!

lucy,

I've had ATM ONLY cards (2 from two seperate banks) in the '80's. They were ONLY ATM cards. (LOL! It took me a couple years to 'test' that machine - I just didn't 'trust' it as much as going inside the bank to make deposit!)

I don't know when the 'debit cards' came to be - 80's or 90's? - But it was "in my face" in mid 90's when I rec'd my first "combo" card.

The VERY FIRST 'combo' CARD I rec'd - could EASILY have been mistaken for a CREDIT CARD. (I was used to seeing - in big bold on card - "ATM". The new one, I had to 'really look at it closely' - and still need to, to this day-JUST to determine if it is indeed my ATM card! LOL!)

I have yet to cross that 'thresh-hold' of converting from CC to debit-card.

For people like ME, who have limited amt in ckg acc't at any given time, a MISTAKEN DEBIT CARD (when one MEANT to use a credit card) could add up to numerous fees, late mortgage pymts, utilities being shut off...etc. Not to mention the negitives reported to credit bureaus, AND result in very high APR's on CC balances. ALL of them!

I think the difference is...you use your's (that one card) consistantly...so you KNOW what it looks like right off.

I, so far, would rather have the CHARGE on a CC, than a DEBIT that exceeds the amt of $$'s I have in bank - thus starting a 'chain reaction' of fees, bounced cks, bad credit reported, utilities turned off, etc, etc, etc...).

AND, I keep all receipts. Easier for 'me' to record my bit of spending over a few days, if necessary, on a CC purchase, than having to record the Debit immediately and wonder if I 'BLEW IT" LOL!
I don't know - I'm slower than the avg when it comes to "new" stuff & adapting.

Anyway - as I said, I posted this for people who don't know, and are "led to believe" they MUST activate their cards to use for ATM ONLY.
Once activated, CAN be used as DEBIT CARD and ATM. NOT activated, can be used as ATM, but NOT DEBIT CARD.

(Well, at least that's how it was last time I called and checked - as I have this old 'new' card I need to call about so I can make an ATM Deposit!)

You're really worried about mixing up your cards? Other than the fact that they both have a MasterCard or Visa symbol on them, isn't there anything else different? Different colours, images, etc?
I can't imagine mixing my cards up.

If you are really that worried, why don't you stick a big sticker on your ATM/debit card and write "ATM" on it? As long as it doesn't cover the numbers, magnetic strip, signature area, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Or just put them in different areas of your wallet/purse. Make your credit card more accessible than your ATM/debit card.

I was thinking along the same lines, greg_h...

Get a sharpie and write "ATM" across the front since you are unable to distinguish between your cards...

DH has two debit cards from the same bank. The appearance is identical. He uses one for his own personal purchases and the other is for grocerices/gas. He took a sharpie and wrote a big "J" (for "joint acct") on it.

Works for us.

I don't even carry a credit card unless I plan to use it.

I've never wanted a debit card either. Isn't it 'just like cash'? If it's stolen...can't someone empty your account?

I carry almost zero cash. Bet we use about $500 in cash all year. Everything goes on our mutual CC or my personal CC. If I have a problem with a retailer, the CC company will sort it for me. If the card is lost or stolen we are not liable for anything over $50. We pay the balance in full every month, have a great record of 'where the money went', and plenty of air miles.

The OP might consider placing a rubber band around the ATM/Debit card so she'd be certain to 'feel' the difference.

i don't know about your bank, but EVERY bank here has 2 options to activate a debit card, call the number OR simply go to an ATM and use the card. either one activates the card. if yours is like that, then your card IS now active.

if you are so worried that you may accidentaly use the debit card in place of a CC, the solution is simple. put it in a place in your wallet/purse that is away from your CCs. no way to accidently grab it then.

Don't you have to enter your PIN during the transaction when you use a debit card? (I've never used a debit card, only ATM cards and credit cards so I don't know for sure). Using a CC doesn't require a PIN ... so therefore, if you're prompted for a PIN, you'll know BEFORE the transaction is completed if you've accidentally used the wrong card and can correct it BEFORE any money leaves your account. Seems like you'd have to be really distracted to make a mistake like this.

Thanks for posting this. I think many people would probably just call the number on the card, not knowing they are activating a less secure form of payment.

I refuse to use a debit card either. If my wallet is stolen I don't want to worry about someone being able to drain my bank account. I want something that requires at least a pin number.

I've never wanted a debit card either. Isn't it 'just like cash'? If it's stolen...can't someone empty your account?

Actually I think it's safer than cash. If you lose cash, it's gone. If you lose your debit card, it can't be used without the pin. Now, you wouldn't want to write the pin on it. My pin is memorized and not written anywhere. Sometimes a debit card is used as if it's a credit card, but then a signature would be needed. If it's not your signature, then the transaction isn't valid.

The only way someone could empty your account would be if they knew the pin.

I don't carry my credit cards in the same place as my debit card.

It isn't 100% true that you need a PIN or a signature to steal money from your account via a debit card (or credit card for that matter). Someone could just order items online or by phone- no signature and no PIN required. And please do not kid yourself that someone making $5.65/hr actually cares enough to compare signatures when you are signing for either one. They don't.

Also, while your bank is trying to straighten out the mess created by a stolen debit card, your account is frozen. Meaning you cannot write checks or use automatic deductions to pay your bills, etc. Of course, you *do* eventually get your money back with a debit or credit card, but the cash $ is gone forever.

Someone could just order items online or by phone- no signature and no PIN required

I've tried using my own debit card online - it hasn't worked. Even though it has the 16 digit number just like a credit card. It's never been accepted.

And please do not kid yourself that someone making $5.65/hr actually cares enough to compare signatures when you are signing for either one. They don't.

Ture, but legally you aren't liable for something you didn't sign. On the back of my debit card, in addition to my signature, I wrote "See ID". They don't always ask, but often they do.

Of course, you *do* eventually get your money back with a debit or credit card, but the cash $ is gone forever.

Assuming that you were foolish enough to be careless with your pin.

For got to add - worst case scenario. Your debit card is lost or stolen and somehow the finder (thief) also knows your pin.

If they go to an ATM, there is a $$ limit to the amount they can draw in one day. Ours was $200 - I had the bank raise it when we went overseas on a trip, then lower it when we got back. You can tell the bank what you want that limit to be.

If they had the nerve to go into the bank to drain the account, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd be asked for ID AND their signature would be checked against the signature card.

Not so easy as one might think.

Of course no one who steals my card will be able to steal anything - they'd need my PIN and I don't keep it 'handy' by writing it someplace in my wallet! It's only 4 #'s and I've had it for ages, so have no trouble using it when I want to. I just find the whole business of being in hock to credit cards awful... I've had one Visa for decades, one debit card, an Air Miles card, and that's all I've ever needed. Why would you ever need more than one (Visa card) - unless you play one off against the other routinely? Oh well, each to his own!

Actually, we have a Wells Fargo debit card guaranteed by Visa, and you can, in fact, use it as a credit card or a debit card.

Some years ago we used our card at a favorite local restaurant and the number was stolen (probably by the new waiter who certainly wasn't there the next time we visited). $1200 disappeared out of our checking account in two days. Although it took several months to process the claim, Wells repaid us all the stolen funds.

But yes, it is a hassle to have to change account numbers. OTOH, that's true if you decide to move your account to another bank, anyway.

It would be a disaster to be without $1200 for several months while the claim was processed, for many people. I just opened a checking account with WellsFargo & am not happy to hear that it took so long.

One really must weigh the advantages and disadvantages of each method of handling purchases and cash flow carefully, for one's own situation.

raee
I think you've summed up the situation completely.

My bank is a local one. The tellers greet me by name when I walk in, but even so, if I'm withdrawing cash, they ask for ID. (Obviously not Wells Fargo)

People have to make their decisions based on what works for them - but they also need to not be driven by irrational fears.

>>My bank is a local one. The tellers greet me by name when I walk in, but even so, if I'm withdrawing cash, they ask for ID. That wouldn't necessarily help with a stolen card. They don't go to a bank - thieves go to stores, and buy stuff. Making fake IDs is a piece of cake.

They don't go to a bank - thieves go to stores, and buy stuff. Making fake IDs is a piece of cake.

If a thief got your checkbook, they could do the same. In either case, because it's fraud, the real owner isn't liable. Either the bank or the store eats the loss.

I don't want to minimize the hassle factor, but I do think there's some irrational fears driving decisions. I prefer to make fact-based decisions.

My only point is that debit cards have no more inherent risk than a checkbook.

My son had a box of checks stolen from his mailbox. He had no idea until his own checks started bouncing. The theives cleaned out his checking account.

Eventually the bank made everything right, but it took two months. He had to close out the account and open a new one.

Update: WOW - I didn't expect so many responses!

I had to do a trx over weekend at this bank with my "new ATM card". As usual, I called to inquire about 'activating' the card before using - just to use at the bank ATM.

THIS time, they told me 'YES', I do need to activate to use only for atm at the bank! (I've only had this account for about 2 years)

I spoke to a supervisor, and she told me the same thing - must activate. She said last card didn't have to be activated, but they changed things, and now I must to use only atm. She told me same as some of you had mentioned about putting a little 'mark' on the card with a felt pen. (Which I personally think is totally 'stupid' that the customers need to do...just my opinion!)

I DO understand the banks' POV - as they make most of their $$$ off of the consumers' errors/mistakes, etc.

She also said she had gotten herself 'into a pickle' awhile back due to this combo deal, and her manager gave HER the tip - as her manager ALSO go into a bit of a mess! lol

I also was told that my card is now good for atm, debit and credit card! (I don't get it - how this can be used as a CC also - I never applied for any cc with them...whatever, I don't intend to ever use this card as a dc or cc!)

I can have an ATM ONLY card - but is only issued for savings account. I have ckg & savings combo. They paid me $75.00 to open the account, and since I was intending to open one anyway for a specific reason, I did...who can pass up free $75.00 for such minimum daily balance...when was going to do it anyway?

Needless to say, I had to activate the thing.

I like the rubberband idea...'feel it' rather than looking for my special 'mark'.

I don't think there are any 'irrational' fears going on, as any form of carrying 'currancy' has it's pros & cons.
Rather, it's a preferance of how one wants to utilize the various methods.
My personal preference at this time is no dc's.

And as far a losing real cash...I'd rather lose cash than any card, as I normally carry max of $40.00 on me - once in awhile! lol (Usually it's more like whatever change (coins) happens to be with me!)

Altho I do have cc debt which I've been working hard at eliminating this past year, I still DO prefer the cc for all medical related costs - as it makes for a clean and easy 'record' of all medical related costs. For example, this past year, whenever I've refilled an RX or had a Dr. app't, I put it on a specific cc, and as soon as I got home I went online (with receipts in-hand) and paid for the chgs.

(OK, well I had an incident several years ago that I needed to report ALL Docs and RX's and addresses, etc I'd seen in the past 5 years...and having moved a few times, it took a lot of digging. Since that incident, I've charged ALL to one specific cc, which is more easily manageable.)

Easy, no hassel of going to bank first to get cash, no writing cks at the counters. AND, I have itemized record on statements.

I still stand my ground: No Debit Cards for me - at this time!

I don't get it - how this can be used as a CC also - I never applied for any cc with them...whatever, I don't intend to ever use this card as a dc or cc!)

Some stores don't have the little machines where you enter your pin when you use a debit card. So they process the transaction as if it were a credit instead of a debit. Even though it's treated as a credit, the money actually comes directly out of your checking account. That might be what she was referring to.

Personally I find that using my debit card instead of writing checks results in saving me money (the cost of the checks) and time because I have more accurate records because I download the transactions directly from the bank (no entering incorrect amounts from typos). Balancing my checking account takes a couple of minutes.

To each his (or her) own.

On the back of my debit card, in addition to my signature, I wrote "See ID". They don't always ask, but often they do.

by doing that you technically have altered the signature. no merchant is requried to accept any card without a VALID signature, and alterations invalidate it. most don't care, but soem will refuse to allow you to use it.

i use my card all the time at wally world. i have never once had to show it to the cashier, whether i chose debit or credit when i swipe my debit card. when i first got the card i had a hard time remembering the PIN, so most of the time i just hit credit and signed. never mattered.

also i take my stepdad's business card to stores all the time. i sign my name or his name, not one person ahs ever asked to see ID.

zone_8grandma-"I don't want to minimize the hassle factor, but I do think there's some irrational fears driving decisions. I prefer to make fact-based decisions. My only point is that debit cards have no more inherent risk than a checkbook."

I respectfully disagree. I think cathie54 is making a "fact-based" decision. Her bank is trying to "sell her" on this combo card because banks make more money when you use an off-line debit card than when you make a PIN-based on-line transaction, so they prefer to push these over strictly ATM cards. What they DON'T tell you about is your increased liability when they are lost or stolen.

A link that may be useful:
www.pirg.org/consumer/banks/debit/fact.htm

cathie54- There is a sentence at the end of the article warning consumers: "Contact us if your bank refused to give you a plain old PIN only ATM card when you asked."

Seems to me that your bank willfully pushed another product on you when you specifically asked for an ATM only card.

dreamgarden,
I wasn't singleing out the OP when I said that. I've gone back and re-read all of the posts and a number of them simply display a lack of knowledge about debit cards.

If you carry a checkbook and it's lost or stolen, a thief could just as easily drain your checking account. That doesn't stop folks (myself included) from carrying a checkbook.

The fact sheet in dreamgarden's link is dated August, 1997.

>>Her bank is trying to "sell her" on this combo card because banks make more money when you use an off-line debit card than when you make a PIN-based on-line transaction, so they prefer to push these over strictly ATM cards. What they DON'T tell you about is your increased liability when they are lost or stolen. What increased liability? I'm curious since with Wells, it makes no difference if it's a fraudulent ATM or debit transaction; you're covered for $zero liability regardless.

banks make more money when you use an off-line debit card than when you make a PIN-based on-line transaction, so they prefer to push these over strictly ATM cards. What they DON'T tell you about is your increased liability when they are lost or stolen.

While it's true that banks push the off-line debit card over the PIN based transaction because they do make more money that way, the second part of that statement isn't not entirely true. Depending on the laws of your own state, the liability may be limited to $50 (the same as for credit cards)

"What if your debit card is lost, stolen or misused?
You must act quickly. The most you can lose is $50 if you report to the bank or credit union that your card is lost or stolen within two days of when you discover the loss. However, your liability increases to a maximum of $500 if you report within 60 days after you receive your bank statement.

Some major debit card issuers provide more protection. Some state laws cap your total loss at $50. "

Here is a link that might be useful: Understanding Debit Cards

I think debit cards in the US are very different from those in Canada, and that may be part of the confusion. In Canada, a debit card is the equivalent of taking money out of the ATM - it is immediately removed from your bank account balance, and you need to enter your PIN number in order to use it.

If the store does not have a machine to do this, they don't accept debit, period. We also cannot use our debit cards for on-line purchases either, only credit cards.

P.S. Please take it easy on the CAPS.

Olga,
There may be some differences, but in the US using a debit card results in the funds immediately (or nearly immediately) coming out of one's checking account. Just like in Canada. That's the difference between debit vs credit.

I've tried to use my debit card for online purchases. It has never been accepted. I don't know if that's always the case, but it's been true for me.

Here, if a store doesn't have a PIN machine, they treat the purchase as if it were a credit - you have to sign for it. The money still comes out of the checking account.

I've used my debit card on my frequent visits to BC. But I don't remember whether I used a PIN machine or just signed for the purchase.

I second the request re the CAPS.

Up here we don't sign for debits, just punch in our pins to the little machine... maybe that's where some confusion lies.

I'm picking up on the idea of charging medical expenses. (Tried to post a new topic but they are not recognizing my sign-in.)

I've returned to writing checks for medical expenses because I can easily know and verify which MD or hospital or whatever got paid -- very difficult with only the monthly or year-end CC statement. I write on the check and in the ledger the date of service, the MD or facility name, and the procedure. Same with dental bills.

montly or yearly?? I look at my credit card statement 5 days a week. I like to immediately check off what has cleared. I file the bill for end of year tax purposes so I already have that information. This all makes me a little compulsive, but I figure it is a harmeless diversion.

chisue,

It seems like what you like is having a ledger. It doesn't seem to be anything to do with cheques. If you just carried around a small ledger and recorded an entry every time you paid a medical bill with your credit card, then it would accomplish exactly the same thing.
Or just write that information on the credit card receipt and store it somewhere when you get home.

I don't remember from the other threads who all uses Quicken, but when we pay any bill (health or otherwise), I enter the category and in the "Notes" section make any pertinent notes (DH's bloodpressure meds, dental, eye checkup, etc). It makes no difference whether the bill was paid via debit, cc or check.

At any time, I can pull up a report and see exactly where and when as well as a total. Quicken allows me to enter a taxable or not category, so that I can easily see what tax deductible items there are.

greg-h -- I don't bank online. (I know, I shouldn't be allowed to post on these forums!)

Anyway, I have needed to prove to an MD or hospital that I already paid the "$12.48 for the office visit on 10/10/10 when I had shingles". The canceled check, complete with notations, is proof. A line on a CC account gives a provider number and an amount. I don't know every provider number; *they* can't verify which service on which date was paid.

There is no CC receipt. I'm paying these bills as they arrive in the mail after being 'adjusted' by Medicare and secondary insurance. (Often 60 days after the service.)

There is little problem keeping track for many younger people, except large families. That changes when you get old and start to fall apart (LOL) and have multiple medical bills and payments to keep straight over many months.

zone_8grandma wrote: The fact sheet in dreamgarden's link is dated August, 1997.

Here is a more recent link.

ATM/Debit Cards: What consumers need to know about greater fraud risk, card blocking, and debit card fees
www.pirg.org/consumer/banks/debit/debitcards1.htm

One problem with depending upon canceled checks is that banks are really trying to eliminate them. It is an expense to collate, ship, and track voluminous amounts of small pieces of paper. The Fed has gone to electronic check scanning in a big way. Virtually all major banks collaborate with one another to exchange funds electronically based on facsimile records (my apologies if I have described this process incorrectly; it's based on my elementary understanding of it).

Wells, for instance, charges monthly to return canceled checks. Checks written for loans or credit card payments to major institutions - and even some of our gas card bills - are transferred electronically and no canceled check is available (checks are destroyed after being electronically transferred).

Like it or not, there will continue to be changes coming to banking and finance, and like everything else in life, one needs to be flexible and adapt.

zone_8grandma wrote: dreamgarden, I wasn't singleing out the OP when I said that. I've gone back and re-read all of the posts and a number of them simply display a lack of knowledge about debit cards.

I understand. My point was that the OP's bank is making it difficult for the OP to get an ATM card. She specifically stated that she did NOT want a debit card and that is what they gave her anyway. I stated the reasons why they might do this.

Frankly, I would prefer to lose what cash I have in my wallet then lose a debit card. This is why.

"Consumers should understand, however, that while their credit card fraud liability is low by law, their debit card liability can be much higher, according to law, despite the bank's revocable promises of zero liability. Plus, it is your own money, stolen from your own checking account, that you're fighting with the bank to get back. Our best advice-- never use debit cards-- either online or in person, at big merchants or small. While many of these breaches may occur at small merchants, just one breach at a big merchant, TJX Marshalls, resulted in the loss of 45 million debit and credit card numbers. It isn't worth the risk."

Posted by Ed Mierzwinski/U.S. PIRG at September 22, 2007

Links that may be useful:

ATM/Debit Cards: What consumers need to know about greater fraud risk, card blocking, and debit card fees
www.pirg.org/consumer/banks/debit/debitcards1.htm

Electronic Fund Transfers
www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/consumerhdbk/electronic.htm#loss

jkom51 -- My bank does send facsimilies, but they are legible. I can read the notations. As I understand it, the bank will provide full-size, legible copies if I need them.

Am I missing something about tracking these payments if I pay by CC? I'm only doing checks to be able to track and to have proof of payment. In the past when I paid by CC I couldn't establish which payment was for which service on which date.

Chisue is using an already established practice of writing info about the payment on the memo line of her check, instead of trying to implement a whole new recording system, like the ledger idea Greg H had. Not only do your medical payments get harder to track as you age, but trying to start new habits is even harder! I refuse to change bank accounts because I have the number memorized. I deposit a lot of checks and I am afraid that I could not remember a checking account number now. I need to write it on the back of the checks. I was greatly traumatized when we decided to use the Discover card instead of my old Visa. I had the Visa number memorized from having to read it (phone orders) or type (Internet orders) it over the years. Heck, I cannot remember DH's SS number! I contend that a woman can only remember one husband's SS number in a lifetime. No way have I been able to memorize DH's, and we have been married 12 years