With nothing I had to buy and nothing in particular to look for, I did go to the mall on Dec. 26th. Yes, indeedy, there were bargains to be had and I made two impulse purchases (useful not wasteful) which would definitely not put retail in the black for the year.

Wandering around there wasn't a display or rack in any store that wasn't 50-75% off with additional discounts taken at the registers. I did notice people were stacked up at jewelry counters, but didn't pay much attention to those sales.

There are some stores that should close - I'm in an area that doesn't have an over saturation of anything so a loss here will probably be the mall's KB Toys and a stand alone Pier 1, possibly some little knicky-knacky shops that you always wondered how they could survive even in good times. How many chainsaw carved moose can you use? But does every strip mall and enclosed mall need a Bed, Bath & Beyond, Linens & Things, Pier 1, some variety of furniture outlet (Barstools R US)?

This was just the year when the national will to shop came to a screeching halt. With fewer choices, the surviving retail outlets should have a better chance at a bigger piece of the pie.

I guess it's the liquidators who will be busy for a while now...

DH and I shopped yesterday for some very mundane things: socks, sweat pants, gloves, slippers, ten furnace filters -- a thermostat. (Don't ask, or see my boiler saga on the Heating and Cooling forum.)

We shopped major and minor malls in Lincolnshire, IL Sunday between 10:30 and 2:30. Nowhere was busy. Parking was plentiful. The most people I saw all in one place were the ten women lined up making returns at T.J.Maxx. (Gosh, I once made a nice profit on that stock; maybe I should look at it again!) The empty storefronts are starting to show up in force, now that hopes for a Christmas rescue are dashed.

A restaurant observation..Saturday night we went to a well-regarded BYOB..Has about 12 tables,seats less then 40...We had a 7 pm reservation,no tables were empty..Several small groups came and left, as they couldn't be seated any time soon...Dinner for 2 was 120,tip included..So, the economy has tanked everything,just yet...

The restaurants are thriving here too... guess people don't want to cook at home, even when money is supposedly tight!

Restaurants are still packed here also but empty storefronts are noticeable. We were in Newport, RI Saturday & I counted five along the waterfront alone. Driving home we noticed a closed restaurant in Pawcatuck. Here in Mystic, we've had one shop in our touristy 2-block village close since Christmas. Last weekend (again on Saturday) we went to Mystic Village because I wanted to pick-up some things at the gourmet cook store. The parking lot was basically empty except the employee parking area. This shopping area has 60 stores & is immediately adjacent to the aquarium & only 2-blocks from the Seaport with a Hilton right across the street & 3 major restaurants as anchors. It was so empty I thought the stores weren't even open. Our tourist season officially closes Columbus Day but we're usually very busy during the holidays. Not this year. I'm very concerned for our village's welfare. Our stores are all Mom/Pop & rely on the tourist industry for 60-70% of their revenues. Mystic Seaport & Mystic Aquarium feed thousands of tourists through the village each year. From April through T-Day we're also inundated with people that either have a boat slip or mooring in Mystic. They spend heavily in Mystic. If the boating industry continues to be depressed that alone will sink many Mystic stores (think places like West Marine & the deli/bakery). Cruise ships are now stopping in New London & they bus tourists into Mystic. The buses seemed full this summer...we'll see how it goes next spring? We are not casino people so I don't know how Foxwoods & Mohegan Sun are faring. Mystic is a 15-minute drive to either so we normally get a lot of spillover business from the casino folks.

This past Saturday, on our way to Newport, we stopped in Narragansett, RI to tour a condo development (Surfside) immediately across Ocean Drive from the beach. I was surprised they even had an office open. We were the only lookers in sight. The units are very nice with direct ocean front views. Gourmet kitchens w/Viking appliances, lots of painted beadboard, nice bathrooms, flooring, fixtures, etc. The landscaping is award winning. The sales person told us the project is only 30-40% sold (99 units). It's been open 3 years now. We can purchase an ocean front unit, 1,340 s.f., 2 bedroom, 2-1/2 ba, sunroom/den for $950,000. If you don't mind just an ocean view but not directly facing Narragansett Bay the price drops to $850,000. We were astounded! And still they won't sell! The sales person told us their target market was Wall Streeters & inland New Englanders looking for a second home at the shore. Those markets have completly dried up. The units are not large enough nor built conducisve to raising a family. Such a shame...the development is so nice.

/tricia

Was just reading the Boston Globe & this caught my eye...

Here is a link that might be useful: Tough Times For Country Clubs

My view is until the second home/vacation home market completely rolls over,housing won't really bottom...I have also observed oceanfront,high-end condos that sold for 775k for the "lowend" and 1.5m for the tricked-out high end units..The prices haven't collapsed,yet..Many are on the market,with the lowest price i saw is 699k...

In regards to vacant store fronts,they probably weren't generating large revenue streams to begin with,likely making a living,but not livin'la vida loca..How many pizza/bagel/nail salon/chinese restaurant/coffe shops does a town need? EVERY strip mall has these as tenants..

As Buffett has said:
"It's only when the tide goes out that you learn who's been swimming naked"

Same goes for retailers..I can go out to the highway and buy the SAME jeans(for example)in about 15 locations in a 1/2 mile stretch...I am also amazed how retailers continue to add stores only 5 miles or less from their other locations..I'm talking about big box type retailers,ie,Home Depot/Lowes/Toys-r-us,Babies-r-us,et al..
Losing some of these smaller/highly leveraged retailers won't be the worst thing to happen.Except for the commercial real estate owners who own the malls ;(

oops,sorry for double post

Losing some of these smaller/highly leveraged retailers won't be the worst thing to happen.Except for the commercial real estate owners who own the malls

Agreed that there are retailers who could disappear without being missed by many (except employees and stockholders). But we're already starting to see the fallout of shopping centers which are losing/have lost anchor stores, which causes a downward spiral in the number of people who visit the shopping center (causing more retailers to fail). There also are some shopping centers which started construction when they lost major tenants or a critical mass of smaller retailers, and now sit, half-built, not contributing to the tax rolls or the esthetics of our cities.

Wait till our local governments have to try to make up the tax contributions from the Linens n Things and Circuit Citys and Sharper Images and the closed nail salons/Chinese restaurants/pizza parlors.

The worst is yet to come. :-(

"Wait till our local governments have to try to make up the tax contributions from the Linens n Things and Circuit Citys and Sharper Images"

hmmmmmmm....
That may be one of the reasons my area seems unaffected with the current financial situation... we don't have any of those stores, or many of the others marked for failure.

We also never had the housing bubble, so we had nothing to 'burst'.

I was out this weekend at several stores including a major furniture store. The place was packed with literally 1000's of people. This is a place where you can pick up your stuff or have it delivered - about 6-7 pickup lanes - cars were backed up out of the parking lot for as far as you could see to pick up furniture. I went to a few other strip mall type places with Walmart, Target, etc. - traffic jams every where. Two Target stores were out of stock in several things I was looking for and a general lack of inventory. This was out of state - not where I live. It made me wonder if things aren't so bad there since there was no shortage of people out shopping - especially for furniture.

I work down the street from a mall. I go there to eat lunch a couple of times each week. Christmas week was the only time it ever seemed busy to me, and only for one week. I'm in the Raleigh area and we are supposedly doing better than many other areas of the country but I just don't see how all these stores stay in business. They might get busier during the evening when I'm not there.

Consumers shouldn't have any problems finding deep discounts, according to this article.

Even with the sales, we've not been on a shopping spree. We don't have any pent-up desires for 'stuff', I guess. If anything, I'd still like to pare down a bit.

I agree with the article concerning the 'value' issue. Apparently, jeans were never 'worth' $200? lol Now, retailers will, IMO, have a very difficult time getting those prices in the near future (say, next 5 years). There's an attitude sea change happening that I can feel in the air. Talking with our 30ish kids (and their friends) & our grandkids confirms our suspicions. When the 'Keep Up With The Jones' housing bubble burst it also took out retail.

There's a growing but still relatively small number of people cutting back because they are forced...not nearly enough to collapse the retail industry. The rest are cutting back because they've charted a new course. In the long run, probably, good for the country. Tough in the short run.

I was thinking about capitalism today. We had large excesses during the 'Roaring 20s'. Lots of greed, corruption, lavish spending, maybe even some debauchery thrown in for good measure (similar to the recent $6K shower curtain & toga party). The collapse of the banking industry, housing, stocks, & the Great Depression took out many of the country's mega-wealthy. For instance, the Rockefeller, Astor, & Vanderbilt children had to start working for a living. The Gilded Age was clearly over...at least for a few decades. It's starting to look like we're now experiencing a similar event with the very wealthy being hit hard. Their own greed collapsed the very system that kept them isolated in their mansions counting their oil stock's value & smiling at their Madorff investment returns away from ordinary Americans. Sure, the small guy always gets hurt in any economic downturn but this is not like our recent recessions. This time, the larger the fortune...the harder it's been hit. Even the recent unfortunate suicides fit in with the scenario of the late 20's & early 30's collapse. So, the air will come out of the balloon, & capitalism will eventually rise again to create a new golden era; but it'll take decades to reach the heights of the past ten years. Capitalism's natural checks & balances?

/tricia

Here is a link that might be useful: Will Retail Survive Without Deep Discounts?

I've always shopped discount sales. I've been shopping the last couple of weeks. I haven't seen as many of the 'deep' discounts as I normally do. I'm actually seeing higher prices on the same merchandise now than I did before Christmas. For instance, my child broke his zipper and needed a new coat before Christmas. I bought the coat at 50% off. Now that same coat is at 40% off. The same for my dd. I bought her a pretty dress to wear to a wedding the first week in October. THat dress was 30% off then. Now it is 40% off. Big whoop! The dress is a seasonal item and there really aren't many places to wear it after Christmas. The dresses with actual Christmas themes are marked the same way. I don't have to buy. I pretty much own what I need for this season. I go to look because I like to buy ahead for the next year. At some point, these stores need to off-load their merchandise. My guess is that they will have to make an even deeper discount if they wait until off-season to reduce the prices to a reasonable amount.

Maybe I was 'ahead of the curve'. LOL

Virtually all of my clothes have come from T J Maxx for years! Once you realize you can buy 'X' for $100 at a department store and the same thing for $25 at Maxx, why on earth would you pay more? (And they are still making money on those garments because the cost is, what, maybe 10% of the 'suggested retail' price?)

Now, I couldn't do that if I had an life in 'Society', but...I don't. My years of buyng the latest fashions at Saks are long past. Even then I'd often buy 'sale' items because my size was still on the rack when larger sizes had sold. (I used to wear an 8, which is now called a 6 -- another merchandising ploy.)

My DIL takes this a step further. DGS's new-looking garb comes from a childrens' resale store. Evidently (other) grandmas buy oodles of expensive clothes for kids who only wear the articles once, if that, before they outgrow them.

One the cat's out of the bag on pricing, retailers can't expect to get away with 'suggested retail' again -- especially if the customer gets the same 'serve yourself' treatment everywhere. To be fair, perhaps the customer prefers to do the hunting instead of being seated while a sales person brings in garments to be tried on. (Nobody prefers standing on line for 20 minutes at a cash register though!)