Wow. I've just become executrix of my mom's estate in the past month and a half, too. I'm in a little better postion--all she had was bank deposits (and an old rattle-trap car) and next to no debt. Still, I'm finding what you are--that everything moves at the speed of a snail with a broken foot (do they actually have feet?).

I think you need to speak to her creditors to let them know that it will take you some time to liquidate her assets, but that they will be paid eventually. Maybe the bank would give the estate some sort of temporary loan--to be paid off when the house sells? Can't hurt to ask.

One thing that moved with the speed of light--Mom had AARP supplemental insurance and had paid in full, for the next year, within the week before she died. When I called to cancel that, I got the refund check in literally just days. So if your SIL had that insurance, check to see if she's due a refund--at least it would be a few $$$ you'd have for some small bills.

If you're her only beneficiaries (I've got 3 other family members besides myself to keep happy), and if you can afford to pay the expenses for now, just know that eventually you'll be reimbursed. Keep careful records, though, just in case.

Oh, one other suggestion--I spent about a half hour on the phone the other day with OUR accountant, picking his brain about what I had to do for the estate account. He was extremely helpful. If you haven't already had a chat with your accountant, I'd highly recommend it.

Have you had a problem with getting mail forwarded? I put in the address change over a month back and to date have not gotten even a single piece of mom's mail at my house. Apparently, the PO was forwarding her mail FROM her apt. address, TO her apt. Fortunately, the other day the carrier gave a stack of mom's mail to the apt. manager--who called me, so I did get my hands on at least a few pieces of the missing mail. I'm so frustrated with this situation, and so worried that her tax info, that should be coming out this month, will end up being MIA.

I decided when I first started with this project, that things would get done when they got done. I've told all my siblings not to pester me, I'd do my best, but I'm not rushing things. There are too many steps to the process, and it's a big responsibility--I want to do it all correctly.

Know what you're going through, though--best of luck with it.

Obviously the house will need to be sold, and your expenses will be reimbursed from that sale. You must keep careful records of what you have spent, including interest on any charge cards you use.

Use a credit card, or get a short term bank loan if need be. Even a home equity line of credit (HELOC) would be useful. It's one of the reasons no one should EVER be without sufficient credit to draw upon in an emergency. In settling my sister's estate, even though she had no RE, it took close to $10K to maintain the car payments, pay for the funeral and attending items, keep the apartment for an extra month until we could move everything out, get her personal effects appraised, pay the initial lawyer fees, etc. etc. We were reimbursed eventually, of course, but it was a real eye-opener.

Unfortunately many people do not realize that the Executor of an estate is legally responsible for proper disposition of the assets. It's a financial burden, since assets such as RE cannot be disposed of until properly appraised and liquidated, all of which takes time (as you are finding out).

Nobody is ever in a hurry to deal with the paperwork of death, at least on the official side! I've settled one estate and would be very happy if I NEVER did it again - and it was an easy one!

Settling our personal estate will not be a simple job, something I'm now aware of. Passing spouse to spouse is easy, but since we have no children it gets more complicated after that. It's the main reason why we have a trust now - the trustee will have almost immediate access to our cash reserves, which is sufficient to maintain the entire estate expenses for at least six months.

Azzalea, I filled out the change of addres form on PO internet site USPS.com. They charge $1.00 to your credit card (probably to be sure its legitimate) and we started getting her mail within a week, even though it was Christmas week. Sure helps a lot. And they come with yellow stickers across the bottom, which further helps me keep our mail separated at a glance.

I'd never even thought about AARP supplemental. Worth checking out. Tried to contact her insurance man but he won't be back in office till the 14th. They did send us a load of papers and choices but nothing I really understand and no dollar amounts, so think I should make an appt. to see him.

jkom, yes, I'm paying everything by either credit card or check from my own accts. so I can hightlight and verify expenses. Now that the estate acct. is opened, I'll pay the taxes and utility bills from there as long as possible, and wait til estate is settled for reimbursement of what's been paid so far.

Fortunately, we have enough to get us through this mess without having to borrow, and all her bills were paid in full monthly, but it sure IS an eye-opener, for the simple life she led.

Thanks for your replies. Helps to know this is par for the course. Good luck to you too. Sandy

Hi breen-suckyerthumb,

You sound as though you need a bit of comforting from somewhere! Hope your thumb will help out a bit ... even though you may not have reached second childhood yet.

Being in the throes of seniorhood myself, I need some information as to whether the rules governing second childhood permit sucking one's thumb as a comfort system ... so I'll be waiting for answers to that question which someone may be able to provide.

While I'm totally unaware of the rules governing the Social Security system, in Canada when someone dies, there's a death benefit of something like $2,500. available from the Canada Pension Plan, a compulsory, contributory public pension system into which every employment-income-earner must contribute.

But - I understand that the estate must ask for it, or they don't get it.

Lots of U.S. folks will know whether anything comparable is available down your way - I hope that they'll speak up to fill you in.

Are you aware of where she did all of her banking? I assume that you've been able to access part of that, for you spoke as though you are aware that there are scarcely any liquid assets in the credit union.

Did she have any investments, e.g. stocks, bonds? Likely they'll pay dividends/interest regularly. Do her credit union passbooks/monthly reports show any deposits from such sources?

Some such investments allow for reinvestment of dividends, so just because none show in that location may not mean that there are none ... but no doubt there'll be reports from such carriers regularly.

Such investments would be available for liquidation.

How about life insurance? Insurance companies are usually ready to pay a benefit fairly quickly on assurance of death having taken place (apart from there being any suggestion that the death may have been hurried up a bit by the hand of a beneficiary).

Have you found a safety deposit box key anywhere around? They have a rather distinctive appearance, and if there is one, I hope that you can find where it calls home - as there might be a pot of gold at the foot of such a rainbow.

If the house is reasonably new, is there a mortgage?

If so, there's another dog that'll need regular feeding.

Maybe the mortgage carrier will be willing to allow you to increase the mortgage amount without a lot of hassle, to allow you to find some ready cash.

A home equity line of credit would be helpful, so that you can draw on it as needed and avoid withdrawing a substantial amount all at once.

Did she keep her old mail? If so, such material might give you a clue as to assets and ongoing income that she may have had.

Some survivors and beneficiaries are surprised to find that some people who appeared as though they were living quite frugally, none the less had developed assets, sometimes rather major ones, that no one knew about.

I hope that you can find that she was such a person.

Be sure to keep careful records of every action that you take.

Good idea to log them daily, as well as keeping a financial account.

Though the issues referred to above may offer rather faint hopes, if you can find evidence of such, they may offer some help in meeting your current crunch.

Good wishes as you proceed with your responsibility.

ole joyful

P.S. Drat! Coffee's gone cold again ... but who ever said that we should consider it a matter of right that life would be sweet, every darn day??

Aren't microwaves a marvellous discovery/invention?

o j

Joyful--as to death benefits in the US. There is a death benefit of in the neighborhood of $250 (yes, you read that right) for only the FIRST one of a couple to die.

In practical terms, that means that when my dad died, 25 years ago, we got the death benefit (it was a little less back then). But now, mom died, and since one person already got the death benefit, there isn't one for her. Not as if it would have made a dent in an $8000 funeral bill, anyway (and we did everything very economically).

Oh my.....I could see this happening to me with my brother some day. And what if the person had no equity in the home but the expenses continued....does the bank just foreclose on the deceased? I don't know that that is his situation but he's never been too good managing money......

Since the 1950's there's been a Social security death benefit of $255. Since 1981, it is payable only to the surviving spouse or a young child or a severly disabled adult child. It used to be paid to anyone who paid the funeral bill, but no longer.

She hadn't dug a hole in the yard and put a coffee can filled with money into it?

There was a rumour that old uncle had.

Maybe I'll go digging ... next summer.

Wait a minute - I met a guy a while ago who has one of those metal detectors/treasure finders! (Hope old uncle might have used a metal can - or included some non-copper change).

ole joyful

I don't know whether this will help or not, but it doesn't hurt to think about.

When my sweet MIL passed (five years ago), we went through 40 years of accumulations. Because she had been raised during the depression, she stashed cash around the house. We found bills sewn into the drapery hems, bills hidden under the carpeted stairs going into the basement, bills stuffed into used envelopes. We found several thousand dollars in cash hidden throughout the house. I've always wondered what we missed...

Just a thought......

gibby3000, the situation would depend on whether your brother has made a will and has an executor. If you are sure there is little cash, being the executor probably would be a bad idea unless you were the only heir - and I'm only half-joking here!

The executor remains financially responsible for keeping the estate intact until probate is finished. In some states this can take a few weeks; in CA it is not uncommon for it to take up to 18 months. However, you can RESIGN as executor, if you do not wish to have the financial burden.

Your state's laws may differ, but in CA, I believe (no expert here, just guessing) the state would then have to hire a professional to be the executor. Time, fees and expenses will be deducted from the total estate prior to disbursement. If there is no will, the estate is distributed (again, in CA) "per stirpes" - not as direct a line of inheritance as you would assume.

FYI...

It is a personal choice to serve or decline to serve as executor/trix of an estate. If you choose to serve as Personal Representative you can later resign, although you may have to provide an "accounting" for the period you served. If you decline to serve, or resign after serving, the alternate Executor - if named in the will - is usually appointed by the probate court.

If no alternate is named in the Will, or the named alternates die or are unwilling to serve, or a person dies without a Will, the probate court will appoint someone to serve.

Unless state laws require that another family member or beneficiary wishing to serve be appointed, and such family members or beneficiaries are qualified, willing to serve and readily available, it is not unheard of for a probate court to select a "political crony" or a trust company that has made contributions to the judge or his/her political party to serve as the Personal Representative as the fees sometimes can be quite lucrative. In somey cases, though, it is not particularly lucrative as the estate is diminished to nothing in settling the deceased's final expenses.

Agreeing to be someone's personal representative is something that should be given some very real and careful consideration. When it's family, etc., it always seems like it's the "right thing to do", but you can get in over your head with time and energy expended; not to mention your own personal finances becoming involved until things settle out.

How would you like to be executrix for over 7 years....yep, that's right and mom's estate still not settled.....

jkom - pretty sure no will and no executor and I am the only immediate relative - no spouse, no kids, no parents, no other siblings. Unless he outlives me it's something I'm going to have to deal with at some point. Pretty sure no life insurance unless he now has this with his new job. He lives a pretty simple life and I don't think he has alot of debt but probably some.

This whole topic is something I think the living don't give enough thought to. We had to decide on personal representatives for our estate - it will be in good order but it would still be alot of work to deal with - selling real estate, etc. DH was personal representative for a relative whose affairs weren't in order - income taxes hadn't been paid for several years - records in complete disarray - etc. It was a nightmare that went on for several years - fortunately no debt - other than delinquent taxes.

To the OP: I'm not sure you are doing this right. There is no reason you need to spend a dime of your money to pay your MIL's bills. Those are her bills, not yours. When my aunt died, my mother called all the creditors and told them she was dead. Sorry, she won't be making that electricity bill payment. Sorry Visa, she won't be paying that either. She told them the estate did not have enough to cover it. No way did she shell out out of her own pocket. That is crazy. In fact, as executor you are allowed to take a salary for this position. My mother told me you pay the funeral expenses FIRST and every thing else second. I suggest you speak to an attorney ASAP before you are broke!

you absolutely should not pay her bills from your own money.

You run of a risk of being found to be legally liable for them ALL then.

And you wouldn't be if it don't pay them. But the minute you pay someone else's bill, you may legally make it your own.

Please double-check this with a good book, like "The Executor's Guide" (link below)... but I believe as executor you may be able to just make loans to the estate account from your own, then pay from the estate account. I'd be careful about telling this or that company that the bill can't be paid right away *unless it really can't* because I think that could land a person in more red tape than they need and various things one might not want shut off might be... companies are not so great about dealing with a deceased's account.

If it's possible to get the deed to the house transferred to you and your husband quickly I wonder if a reasonable-interest home equity loan might not be a helpful thing to look into.

Also, you know that a deceased's tax forms still may need to be filled out, right? And the estate may need to file an income tax form also (which is different from estate tax). Would check with whatever attorney's handling probate, and also would definitely read through a good book on the intricacies of serving as executor.

Here is a link that might be useful: Book on being an executor

If a home has a mortgage and the mortgage is not kept up, the company can foreclose - that alone is reason enough to keep up the payments until the estate is settled.

>>as executor you are allowed to take a salary for this position. State laws vary, so I would check this statement. It is not true in CA. Here, an executor is entitled to a set fee, a specific percentage based on the size of the estate. There is no "salary" allowed. Unless you are a professional executor, there is no payment for the time spent settling an estate.

If you are an executor, you MUST keep the assets of the estate together until your position is confirmed by the courts. This means cars, real estate, or secured property, regardless of what the monthly payments/insurance are. How you handle debts is up to you, but any creditors can certainly demand payment from the estate once they are notified of death. In reality, of course, many companies will not bother going after small amounts.

Once confirmed as executor, assets can be liquidated if need be, to raise cash. When I settled my sister's estate, we liquidated some of her art - she had no RE - to raise additional cash. As her executrix, I was already legally liable to keep the estate intact.

As stated above, if you don't want the liability of being an executor (or a trustee of a trust, for that matter), simply resign.

Keep good records. My GH was the executor when his mother died. He paid for the funeral,which wiped out our "emergency" savings account. Luckily we were both employed. He also paid misc. bills, like the electric and heat and water on her house while his sister was living there. He had to pay for a termite inspection and termite repairs and replace a broken dishwasher in the kitchem. It really adds up fast. Keep receipts. You'll get your money basck eventually.

Sorry, I never got these replies in email and haven't been here in a couple days. Last week when I posted was interesting to say the least. I had opened the estate acct. that day. Between the checking and savings accts. there was roughly $8,000 for the estate acct. Funeral was 6 and I'd already paid that plus house utilities.

We also received a notice that day from another bank (happens to be the one I use) that payment was delinquent, this is the penalty, and they will fwd. to collection agency unless paid within 10 days. It was on auto-pay so I hadn't gotten a bill and didn't know anything about it but her CU had already frozen her acct. so, of course, it bounced back. Had to have bank fax copy of Death Cert. and my official crapola letter from court and paid that from my acct.

Late the next day I got a call from her CU to say they were taking back $5,100 because it was in Trust for my 2 daughters! Very ugly conversation. Thank goodness the only check I'd written was for her property taxes, leaving me with a whopping $850.

I've always been chided for keeping a good amount in liquid assets (savings) outside of our investments and now I'm glad we have it. As things stand right now, I'm keeping good records of everything and will settle up when house is sold--including daughters Trust, which (now that smoke has stopped coming out of my ears) I've decided they should keep, although they'd both put it into the estate acct. if I really needed them to. Doesn't amount to a hill-o-beans in the big picture. I'd like to reply to some of your posts, but this is so long I'll do it in separate post. Thanks for all your input. Lots to consider and probably things we should think about with our own estate. Sandy

In my opinion--since you asked--the trust is something you cannot play around with. That was a specific request, and you've been charged with the legal responsibility of carrying out all the provisions of the will--whether or not you agree with them. Actually, the bank had no choice but to take that money back. They have to follow the law, and they would have been in huge trouble had they allowed you to use that money when it was supposed to be in a trust. I know, when I went to set up the estate accounts, that was one of the important questions I had to answer -- is any of this money to go into a trust.

Fact is, while things are tight now--because of the lack of cash, there should be adequate money once the real property is sold to handle everything. I still think you should contact any creditors, and let them know the situation (take a copy of your short certificate and maybe the death certificate when you go to see them), and see if they'd be willing to wait for their payments until the house is sold. I would think, if you promise that you will work to sell the house as quickly as possible, and that they'll be paid in full immediately after settlement, at least some of them might be willing to give you a few months of breathing space. Can't hurt to ask, right?

You're definitely right about the 'ripple' effect of being an executrix. I've got my old will sitting on the dining room table, with pencilled corrections. Am planning on making an appt. with our attorney in a couple of weeks to redo ours. And I've started putting POD's on my various bank accounts to save my executrix hassles when I'm gone.

Yes, unfortunately there is nothing like actual experience to make a person aware of the time, hassle, and $$ needed to settle an estate.

azzalea is correct regarding the enforceability of a trust. Do not ever mess around with the money in a trust; you can be sued and removed from your position as trustee or executor. Not that your children will probably do so, of course (smile)!

Hope you can see the light at the end of the tunnel and that the estate is soon settled. It certainly does make one think about getting personal affairs in order, doesn't it?

Yes, I understand that the Trust had to be taken back. It was just a shock when CU called and I thought that info. should have been available to local branch before they put it in acct. in the first place. I did tell daughters that's what she wanted and they should have it now.

Actually, her will and insurance policy beneficiaries were changed in 2003. Her first one divided everything between our two girls and named my youngest as executrix. That Trust may have just been overlooked at the time...or not. She talked to me and both girls about the changes she'd made and why, and it was sound reasoning. Even better now that I see upfront expenses and the time involved. DD is short on both.

I met with her insurance/fincial man today and he is helping me get through to employer, and faxed my legal papers so they can send me forms. Another meeting set for next week to deal with whatever they send. So things are chugging along.

OT: I was terribly overwhelmed when I posted. She was in her teens when DD was born, never married and very close to us and the girls all these years. We were planning a 60th birthday party for her this Spring. And suddenly, instead, there were funeral arrangements, lawyers and bills.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions. Had to laugh about finding money in drapery hems, etc. Different era, but sister and BIL found money everywhere too, when they cleaned out his parents house. They were packrats and it just got mixed in with all the clutter and forgotten.

Cinnamonsworld, thanks for the book referral. Looks like a good one for now as well as future planning. Sandy

Yes, that is one of the worst parts about being an executor or trustee. One is grieving, at the same time one is trying to cope with extra demands and complicated problems to solve. I think that's what makes it so often an unpleasant experience.

A friend once told us a good story about the "hiding money" experience. His grandfather owned a beautiful old antebellum mansion that was slowly mouldering away. There were newspapers everywhere - every single issue of the daily local paper that had been printed since the 1930's (and this was the 1990's!).

His GF referred to it as his "filing system". He would actually use those newspapers as a real filing system, and was locally famous for being able to solve all kinds of disputes and arguments because he'd go look up the facts in his newspaper archive.

When he died, the family took the opportunity to finally throw all those fire-hazard piles out. As the workers were throwing the papers into a truck, currency of all denominations started fluttering through the air! Yes, the GF had also squirreled away thousands and thousands of $$$ in cash in those newspaper pages, and the family had no idea of it.

They did recover quite a lot of it, but no doubt several hundreds disappeared into those workers' pockets (grin).

I haven't read thru all the replies, so forgive if I'm repeating, but--you do NOT have to pay any of the deceased's bills out of your own money! If there was no money in her accounts to pay taxes or whatever, then they don't get paid. Property taxes would come out of the sale of the house. The lawyer should be able to advise you on this, but whatever you do, don't start writing checks to people from your own accounts. You're not responsible for anyone else's debts, executor or no.

please please PLEASE speak to an attorney....

housenewbie,
While it's true that the executrix doesn't have to pay expenses (taxes, ins, etc) from her own funds, the reality is that if the house doesn't sell before the taxes come due (and there's a good probability of that), then the county could force a sale at a lower than market price in order to collect the taxes.
The end result is that the heirs would receive less funds or maybe none at all.

(My son's father died a couple of years ago - leaving property but not much cash. Son paid expenses until the property was sold then reimbursed himself - of course he kept careful records. The mortgage was several payments behind at the time of the death and the company was only a few weeks from beginning foreclosure proceedings.

If my son hadn't kept up the mortgage payments from his own funds, the mortgage company would have foreclosed. Had that happened, none of the heirs would have received nearly as much.)

I would certainly hope that the OP would speak to an attorney before refusing to pay the estate's bills.

Maybe I should repeat for those who missed it. DH and I are the sole beneficiaries in estate, and its a very nice house in a desirable neighborhood, so...

As I see it, it's really a question of 1.pay them now or 2.pay them later with interest, extra paperwork and possibly unnecessary problems. I have no doubt we will get it all back. As I've said, the only things I'm paying are ongoing house utilities. And we're keeping those as low as possible. I even unplugged things drawing "phantom" power like TV's. I did pay the current property tax bill and hoping to sell before the school tax bill (thats the big one around here) in Sept.

Her yearly reports just came this week from Metlife. That's kind of confusing. Say's they are annuities and there is also a death benefit which is the same amount as the balance. So they sound like tied to insurance? Sorry, I'm just ignorant of this so far. Meeting with her agent again next week and hope to clear that up. Just wish he'd focus on the task at hand instead of talking to me about our own investments, where they are, how they're doing. Sandy

By all means, if the agent vears the conversation toward your investments (and selling you his product), just take control of the conversation refuse to discuss your finances with him, while wresting the conversation back to the important topic.

I'd go so far, if it were me, as to have a list of questions in front of me, on a pad, with room for answers, which I would write down as he answered--so that he was well aware there was a specific agenda for the meeting. He starts asking about your money? "I'm sorry, I really can't even talk about that now--my focus is on getting this estate sorted out and settled." then go on to your next question (and don't leave one for the next until he's given you all the info you need.)

By the way--I know there's a lot on your plate, but don't forget you have to file her last years taxes. I'm just letting my accountant handle that for my mom's estate.

Yes, definitely sounds like she had an annuity. I know very little about them save for they can have interesting tax consequences if you do the wrong thing! If you can't get straight answers from the agent, call Met's customer service #. There should be one on the website specifically for annuity customers.

In fact, it might not be a bad idea to do this ANYWAY. Verbal conversations have no legal standing, only something in writing can protect you.

Good luck as you work towards getting things settled.

All excellent advice. Azzalea, I can see I'll have all I can handle(and then some)understanding my task at hand without even thinking about my own investments. He even suggested I bring in my YE statement--not gonna happen. But the list of questions sure is, as well as taking notes.

I think the lawyer said in our initial meeting that he would prepare her taxes for '07, so I'm getting things together for him. Lots of different Dr. and prescription receipts so I'm calling to get consolidated reports for the year where I can. I know between her meds and taxes she always had plenty of deductions.

jkom, I went to the Met website to get some idea about annuities, as you suggested. Holey Moley! I've got to digest some of that before I even talk to anyone. And I'm going to talk to our tax man and CFP before I do anything. Not rushing into anything before I do my homework.

Thanks for the suggestions. Sandy

Hmmm, no lawyer should be preparing her estate tax return. A CPA, at the very least! You might want to check on that, and soon.

jkom, I just came across copies of "Final Tax Returns" for both her mom ('97) and aunt ('91) and they were both done by this lawyer. He wrote all their wills and handled everything including the taxes. Seems to be what they've always done.

What is different about this return? And why a CPA? Thanks, Sandy

Wow, that's interesting! I've never heard of a lawyer preparing tax returns, I should think the liability issue alone would stop them cold.

The only reason I suggested a CPA is that they do have to meet more rigorous standards than the average tax advisor, and you may have tax issues with the estate - but then again, you may not, assuming everything (including the value of the annuities) is relatively straightforward.

I have to say, I'm using my accountant for the taxes on mom's estate, and my lawyer for legal issues. They really are 2 different disciplines and I like picking the best person for the job, whatever it is. Not to mention, I think an accountant's time would probably be a hair cheaper than a lawyer's anyway.

As a matter of fact, I'm off in about 15 minutes to drop Mom's paperwork off at the accountant's office, so he can do her taxes, hopefully before he gets really busy this tax season.