I am new to the board here, but I have been researching products and materials for our new custom dream home. I am strongly considering a Waterfurnace geothermal unit. I am talking to an installer who sells both brands, and he recommends the Waterfurnace. According to him, Waterfurnace's main focus is on geothermal units and that is their specialty. Trane's main focus is on conventional systems. That's my two cents worth.

Trane or Waterfurnace?

The answer is neither. They may be fine products, but I believe there are better choices. If you’re hell bent on liquid ground loops, go with ClimateMaster. However, there is a better alternative. See my postings at ‘Size of Geothermal Unit’, two messages above.

S.R.

fsq4cw told you to choose ClimateMaster but be aware ClimateMaster specializes in commercial geothermal and not residential. They released a fine residential product recently with a 27 EER (Energy Efficiency Rating). WaterFurnace is in the process of releasing a 30 EER unit called the Envision. It also has a 5 COP meaning for every dollar you spend, you'll get five dollars worth of heating and cooling compared to electricity. It's simply the most efficient geothermal unit you can buy. period.

We just got a Waterfurnace Envision Unit and it's great. Be sure to get a good thermostat.

;-)

IMO

SR

I read you are installing a 5 ton dual speed Envision. I was wondering, how many sq. ft. is your house, how many linear ft in wells, and where do you live? How did the project go? I am about to go to contract for a 6 ton Envision.

I have a AT45 2-speed compressor Waterfurnace installed in November of 1993.

We just had our first failure this afternoon, it is now about 15 degrees outside in North/Central NJ.

The circulation fan went out. So, we have no heat, can't even use the emergency resistive backup/boost heat elements, they require a fan, even more than the heat pump.

But, on the wood stove idea, I do have a modern wood burning insert in my fireplace and it works so well I decided to put off calling for furnace service from the nearest Waterfurnace dealer, about 20 miles from here, until tomorrow, and I will accept a reasonable schedule to avoid a high cost emergency visit.

So, much as I recommend Waterfurnace, yes this post is a recommendation, 15 years without a service call or any other maintenance isn't bad, and also a recommendation for a "plan B". I've always made sure I have enough firewood on hand to run 24/7 for at least a week in freezing weather.
Today proves the value of said plan.

Craftyone1945 (1945, birth-year?) The pond sounds good, but I have no experience with such an arrangement, my Geo uses a closed loop vertical exchange, in fact I have two 500' deep loops.

Happy New Year.

Honestly, I am afraid of this system and have my fingers crossed. It is more of a fear of the unknown.

Would I be correct in guessing that this will be a 10-ton system?

SR

how did your install go? are you happy with the waterfurnace?

munbun: i'm looking at both the envision and econar. The biggest difference that i can see is, waterfurnace has a flow center that allows you to check the fluid level of the loops. econars that i have looked at you need special tools to check/add fluid.

from reading the internet and talking with folks that have had problems, most of them have had low loop field levels. now before everyone starts in with the closed loop shouldn't leak arguement, there always seems to be some air trapped somewhere. this also gives you the opportunity to see if the field is leaking for some reason. i would rather be able to see a problem before i have no heat.

LJ

I am a Geothermal Dealer and Installer in the Atlanta area. It is great to see people on here discussing their systems. However please rememeber your region of the country, your construction of your home, & your type of loop all make up the length of your loops. I wanted to comment on a few things. The type of pump mentioned by "challeng71" on Jun 5 is not determined by the system/brand it is determined by the installer of the system. An open loop pump is the type that allows you to check water level and add water if necessary. A closed loop pump is what most manufacturers recommend these days but both are acceptable. The problems people are referring to are common issues that stem from the installation of the system and basic science. Remember your system goes throgh two cycles. Heating and Cooling. In the summer we take the heat out of the home and put it in the loop water thus making it hotter. Hot water expands and the water pressure will rise. In the winter we extract that heat from the water to warm the refrigerant that will eventually compress and heat your home. Cold water shrinks and your water pressure will drop. Your pipes will expand and contract after the first year but settle down after that. (Just like new tires on a car!) Air in the system is from the lack of flushing during installation or I situation I have seen alot recently, someone may have changed out their own pump on a weekend to save some money and didnt call a contractor. Doing this once isnt really a big deal but doing it once every 5 years can add enough air to the system to cause some problems. Yes the circulation pumps go out about every 5 years. Its about $200 - $250 to replace them.

If anybody has any more questions about Geo systems please do not hesitate to ask. By the way we install Waterfurnace it is a great piece of equipment.

Go for the best installation – not the best (lowest) price!

SR

After doing a lot of research, I went ahead and had a closed loop waterfurnace geothermal system installed and am thrilled with the result. My house has never been so comfortable, winter and summer, plus I have saved $4000 in heating bills over last year. Amazing! I've just combined it with a solar voltaic system so it will cost me very little to run from now on. Even more amazing!

What ecomech and fsq4cw posted makes sense. The installer's design is key. Don't go with the lowest price, go with the best and most experienced installer. Experienced with geothermal, and check their references to be sure.

Not enough details. Your problems could be related to improper sizing of your system to the ductwork if this is a retrofit. It could be that your ductwork can’t handle the CFM. Was a Manual J and Manual D performed?

WRITING IN CAPITALS IS HARD TO READ!

SR

Unfortunately from what you described, your pond loop was ill conceived and will not work adequately in heating mode. Your pond is just not deep enough. The top of the pond loop should be a MINIMUM of 7 to 8 feet below the bottom of the surface ice level. You will have to explore another type of ground heat exchanger, probably vertically drilled boreholes.

SR