have you ever installed a pv system yourself?

it can be very dangerous if you do not know what you are doing

To own, operate and maintain a generator is like 15x the cost of electric or more right? Better hope for sunny days
No batteries? what will you do at night?

husband is an electrical engineer, and yes, he has
some experience with PV systems

yes, we have batteries, and every off grid system needs
some sort of back up, we're not using the generator
for power every day, indeed, that would be foolish, but
you've got to have a back up, we could get several cloudy
days in a row, and even with a small load, you'r still
gonna need a back up

however, i've known a few off grid wackos who dont have
batteries

you just do what you need to do during sun hours, and
sleep when the sun goes down

really, they went without batteries for years, 'till they
had children

tesa

My neighbor published his results yesterday, 10 panels, 25,000 install, no batteries, in Houston, 1st 2 months produced 1MWh of electricity.

At my electric rate and factoring longer days, thats about $1,200 a year.

So with tax credits, and impending service/replacement required, I figure by the time he hits his return on investment, he will need new panels.

I don't get it???? Wouldnt heat and hot water be a better return?

thats a huge system. 10 panels

our situation is a bit different, for one we're in our RV,
already wired to run dc. we have a very small ac load
no microwave, toaster, blender and the like

we've got super low voltage dc lights that pull something
like 8 watts each, the original ones were drawing 38 watts
each

our fridge is propane, and our hot water heater is propane

also, our stove is propane and the furnace in the rv is
propane too

so all that adds up to a very small system for us, costing
around 4K including the batteries, and the generator

grid tied power was in the neighborhood of 7K

our panels are warrantied for 25 years, our batteries
for 5 years, our inverter for 5 years

with any luck, we wont need to replace things for several
years

its not just the money/cost/return factors, its helping
the environment, its teaching our children we can do this,
we don't need "the man" and his almighty grid

its not just about money

its lifestyle changes, the system would have cost quite a
bit more for a house vs an RV

its being wiling to give up the microwave, or investing in
more panels

its using a laptop instead of a big PC

its spending a bit on light fixtures that are low wattage

its being willing to change

tesa

Your first and second post never mentioned it was an RV,(LP fridge and low volt lighting) makes all the difference and now starts to make some sense, especially regarding the generator.

I wouldnt call that going off the grid, more like going on the road.

any time your not connected to grid tied power, your
off grid

our property already has a shed type structure
with a custon non toxic roof that we will harvest
rainwater off of

off grid is off grid regardless of weather your in
an RV that sits still, or in an RV that moves all
over the country, and for that matter, the cabin we
intend to build will have just a much power usage

we intend to wire the cabin for dc and ac, we still
intend to not use some of the major appliances that
draw huge watts

the only differance between the cabin and the RV will
be more lighting, and more celing fans (also dc, expensive,
but worth it)

your gonna spend money, either buying dc appliances, or
extra pv panels, we choose to go with dc appliances where,
and when we could

tesa

Good luck with it Tesa, and enjoy it. I agree it's also not just about the money - if I had it I'd be off the grid like a shot, although here in British Columbia, electricity is reasonably 'green' since it's hydro-electric.

I'm in Kamloops, normally we get a lot of sunlight so pv and solar hw would be a pretty good option. Apart from the money and the philosophy, it gives you a little independence.

I guess if you have the 'on grid' option (ie local power is not too expensive) it's a cheaper form of backup and in a lot of places you can sell your excess power back to the grid.

In terms of your generator, I assume it's diesel? If you are really keen, you could consider running it on WVO (waste vegetable oil) if you have the time/space/availability of supply. Most places will give it to you for free. I had been considering trying to get a diesel truck and doing some DIY but I don't have a lot of room here for storage, and the city would probably take a dim view, also, a local company has started to collect it and they actually pay for it - not much though, 5c a litre or something - still, a lot cheaper than buying diesel.

Hi, Tesa. I'll start by saying that we have been off the grid for over 20 years. Do NOT be discouraged by naysayers because you'll run into a lot of them. We have found that most "on the grid" folks think that making your own power somehow is not as good as commercially produced electricity. Electricity is electricity whether it is produced by coal or the sun. Also, a lot of folks do not want to be responsible for their lives. They would rather call a repair man if something goes wrong whether it's the electric company or the plumber. Starting slowly is a good thing and helps with the learning experience. But take it from me that as you stay off the grid, what you thought you could get by with in the beginning grows.

My husband started in 1975 with a one room building using his car battery to run his electric 12 volt light and a radio. He drove the car to charge up his battery. I came in 1986 with the stipulation that the shack had to be upgraded to a 3-bedroom house with a working blow dryer for my hair, a washer and dryer and a vacuum. We built a 16'
x 30' garage showhorned ourselves into it with a couple of solar panels, a battery bank and 1200 watt dc inverter and a Sears generator. We tore down the house and rebuilt it. It took 18 months. By the time we moved into the house we had acquired 40 solar panels from an electric company in California. They were upgrading so the panels didn't cost much. We have no clue how old they are but they are still producing at 4 amps. They started at 6 amps when we first got them.

Currently we run high voltage dc (one of the few alternative energy users in this country who run high voltage). We have 80 pv panels that produce 10 amps at 160 volts which at 5 hours a day equals 8 kilowatt hours times 30 days equals 240 kilowatt hours. We estimate that we use about 150 kilowatt hours a month. We have a 2-bedroom, 1 and 1/4 bath home, approximately 1,200 square feet not including the basement. We run a washer and dryer, 2 tv's, 2 computers and other small appliances. Out hot water, refrigerator and cook stove are propane. We dump our extra electicity into heating water.

Our water source is super filtered pond water (sterilized by a sand filter, charcoal filter and UV light and pumped to a storage tank up on the ridge behind our house. The fall coming down from the tank gives us the water pressure we need.)

We have a 1,000 watt wind charger, which contributes to our system. We live in the northern Missouri Ozarks. Windpower is not reliable here. We do have a generator which I think we used once in 2007 during a prolonged cloudy spell. During the summer when charging days are longer, we turn off some of our pv's so that we don't over charge our battery bank. Since 1988 we have gone through 2 battery banks. We are working on our third now. Also, our system has not cost even close to $25,000. Our last 40 panels were purchased off ebay. My husband drove to the east coast and picked them up.

I've tried to keep this post short so sorry if it has gone on. Good luck Tesa and if we can help let us know.

RW

well, no way we could afford a diesel generator.

we tried, juggled, and workd magick to make it happen,
but alas, those puppies are too expensive for our
wee budget

RW, i thank you so much for the kind words, i have ran
into alot of naysayers, i think some of them must work
for "the man" LOL

nothing could discourage us now, we're so happy to be
responsible for our own lives on this level

three years ago, when we started this journey, we went thru
all sorts of emotions, mostly fear, but once we put our
minds to it, and made the commitment, we feel its the
best decission for the future of our family

who knows what the future holds, and i'm far from a doomsdayer, but one never knows, and i'd like to think
that someday, my children, or my grandchildren will be
thankful that we had the foresight to plan for an uncertain
future

just this day, we ordered some d/c 12volt CF bulbs for
our RV, its the one thing i've been trying to reduce, as
far as loading goes, most of the lights here in the RV are
36 watts, so these new lights are 18 watt CF's it might
not seem like much, but every watt counts! we're replacing
three to start with, the three we use most, than as our
budget allows, we'll buy a few more here and there

the kids bunk beds have 12 watt bulbs, i'm ok leaving those, as they don't use them too much

to be honest, i think people who spend 25K on a solar system are not willing to make the lifestyle choices that
will bring that number down

we were

i told my 16 year old, i'm not so sure you can use
the flat iron on your hair every day now

she said "no problem"

i was more than willing to give up the microwave, no problem, we barley use the darn thing anyway

its going to storage, and once we get the house built, and
can afford a bigger system, i might use it, but for now,
i'm willing to make that choice

its all about choices, and some folks aren't willing
to give certain things up

like my friend who has a husband that insists on his
2000 watt stereo system! and his 3 computers, and his
two playstations, so he can have gamming parties

oh, and then he had to go and buy a window unit to keep
his computer room cool enough for his equipment

needless to say, they aren't good candidates for going
off grid, but we still love them, but they just don't
see things like we do

tesa