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Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Posted by robm_2007 (My Page) on
Sun, Apr 22, 12 at 12:31

I live in Collin County in Texas where the homes are extremely close to each other.

My next door neighbor has been having a lot of (exterior) construction done for the last few months so there has been quite a lot of noise and disruption in the immediate area.

However, their workmen have been using my yard as their toilet! I just caught one urinating and told him my yard is not a "toilet". Only yesterday I found #2 in my yard.

Over the past few weeks I noticed that my drip hose irrigation timer had been stolen from my outdoor faucet. Its only $70 but I will have to replace it (my neighbor's workmen have used my hose).

Am I just too sensitive? Does anyone have any ideas of how to deal with this or do I just wait until things calm down and get back to normal?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

I don't think that you're being overly sensitive. I would suggest having a nice chat with your neighbor and politely explain that such behavior is unacceptable and that you expect him/her to resolve the situation. Certainly your neighbor has a toilet that the workers can use. If that doesn't work, call the police the next time it happens.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

It was not fun for me to see one of their workmen urinating. He was also totally embarrassed that I had caught him in the act. I almost felt sorry for him.

Sometimes bringing up something like this to a neighbor can lead to them being defensive. But I will chat to them and see if they can provide access to a bathroom.

Thank you for your help I really appreciate you responding to my post.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Tell the neighbor to get a porta-poty for th eworkers.

Do not ask them, TELL them.

Is there a health department in your area?

They would be very alarmed by what you describe.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Here. when you discuss the problem with your neighbor you can point out to him/her that the codes require toilet facilities for the workers.. Many GC's shave a few bucks by not getting a porta potti but if someone were to complain to the authorites there is a very substantial fine which would come back to the propery owner..

311.1 Temporary toilet facilities at construction sites. Toilet facilities shall be provided and maintained in a sanitary condition during construction. An adequate number of facilities must be provided for the number of employees at the construction site according to the following�

1 to 20 workers- 1 toilet
21 to 200 workers- 1 for each 40 workers
over 200 workers= 1 for each 50 workers


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

When has this become the norm? I live on the East Coast, and when I had my roof replaced, the workers (at least they DID ask) inquired of my husband if they could go behind the garage to go to the bathroom. We emphatically said no, and did let them use the bathroom in the house. However, I suspect some of them were still sneaking behind the garage when we weren't looking.

What kind of people are being hired these days, that they think this behavior is okay? I'm floored by this trend, frankly. Most contractors have some sort of enclosed truck--would it be so difficult to supply a camp toilet in there, for their workers to use in a pinch?

Sorry, just had to vent on that.

Since this is your neighbors, not YOUR workmen, you do have to speak to them, and let them know that the workmen are NOT to: use your hose, come onto your property, and DEFINITELY aren't to use it as a toilet. You can commiserate with the neighbor about the fact that workers today aren't what they were years back, but let them know YOU won't stand for these problems to be brought to your yard.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Beware of random drywall buckets...


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Quote:"Most contractors have some sort of enclosed truck--would it be so difficult to supply a camp toilet in there, for their workers to use in a pinch?"

On the one hand, Most contractors trucks and trailers are so full of tools & materials that they simply do not have sufficient space for what you suggest.

While on the other hand, a toilet such as you suggest would not meet the code requirements, and the contractor is not the one that is legally responsible for providing the facility.

like it or not and argue till the cows come home, but in the final analysis the requirement to provide a toilet facilty rests solely with the property owner that is contracting the service. Generally it is included in the contract and the GC makes the arraingements to get a porti-potty, but when all is said and done, the responsibility legally rests solely with the property owner, and it is the property owner who would be fined if the situation came to the attention of the health department..

The singular exception to the rule is as follows (from the code)

There shall be at least one facility for every two contiguous construction sites. Such facilities may be portable enclosed chemically treated tank-tight units. Portable toilets shall be enclosed screened and weatherproofed with internal latches

Temporary toilet facilities need not be provided on site for crews on a job site for no more than one working day and having transportation readily available to nearby toilet facilities.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

It is definitely not appropriate to use a neighbor's yard for any of that, or to use their hose, or steal their stuff, and most of all, pooping in a neighbor's back yard is really inappropriate.

That said, I don't think peeing outside, out of sight of other people, and with permission, is not that big of a deal. People get way too wound up about it.

And some people do not want workers in their house at all. Contractors don't even want the house unlocked if you aren't there, so they can't be blamed for theft or accidents.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

I doubt that I would even talk about this with the neighbor as it is their contracters problem as these are his/her workers. I would call him/her and raise hell--esp. about the #2. After discussing the impropriaty and the health concerns--if this was not immediately resolved--I would say that I had taken pictures (and do hope you did) and would give two days before going to the Health Dept, Yelp, Utube, and the B&B.
Urinating I might turn my head to on occasion but the OTHER???


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Some motion activated sprinklers would stop this quickly (they are often used to scare animals away from plants and gardens).


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

A 911 call will also stop this quickly. The workmen's behavior includes arrestable criminal offenses.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

"The workmen's behavior includes arrestable criminal offenses."

OSHA is the LAW. Ignore the LAW and you are the criminal. Your neighbor and the general contractor are the ones breaking the law. The workers' behavior are simply the consequence of your neighbor's and his contractor's neglegence.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Thank you for using CAPITALS to underscore the COMPLETE IRRELEVANCE of your COMMENT.

OSHA is of no interest or importance to the OP. Period. End of discussion.

911.

They can whine their OSHA song to the cops.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

You'd really call the cops on a working guy like that? Without even saying something to them or their supervisor first? It is, after all, the boss's fault if he didn't provide facilities.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

No it is not the bosses fault,,,the responsibility of providing restroom facilities legally rests with the property owner.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Marcolo,

Next time you're denied access to a toilet, anywhere, for whatever reason, hear me laughing at you: HA! HA! HA! HA!

IN ALL CAPITALS!

Anyone can deny you access to their toilet.

ANYONE BUT YOUR EMPLOYER!

That's the law, FOOL!


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

It is not my job to explain reality to marginally functional individuals.

To the OP, call the cops. End of dicussion.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Y'all really need to take a chill pill, especially aidan. It's a home maintenance forum on the internet, for Pete's sake. Is it really worth acting like a jackass?


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Is it really worth acting like a jackass?

What makes you think he's acting?


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Don't use 911 for silly stuff! If you are having a heart attack do you want the lines tied up with such foolishness. 911 if for life & death issues only!! My dad just had a heart attack. So glad they actually were able to get to the house rapidly. If your child is not breathing do you want some jerk tying up the line so your kid dies. 911 is for medical emergencies,someone breaking into your house,fire, etc. Go to a fire station & educate yourself!


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Absurd. Do you think 911 has one phone line? 911 is a dispatching service. It can be used to report a crime in progress. Exposing yourself and defecating on another's property are both crimes. Period.

I feel bad for the original poster, who did not deserve the bottom of the barrel level of response she has gotten.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Ok- let's reach a middle ground on this issue. I would contact my local police dept but using the non emergency number. But I agree with Marcolo- this is a criminal offense and needs to be dealt with as such.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

The correct procedure would be to discuss the problem with your neighbor, who in turn would pass it on to the GC, and down to the subs.....

Believe me,,when a workman gets the word handed down to him from an irate boss, who just got his butt chewed out by the GC because the property owner is on the GC's butt, you get attention at the grass roots level......

If you contact the police they will take the appropriate legal action, which would result in your neighbor getting the citation, which leads to courts, expensive legal actions and probably long term hard feelings between you and the neighbor.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Good advice, lazypup! I've always thought people should work these things out rather than reaching for the phone and calling the cops as a first step. Whatever happened to that idea?


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Taking a dump in a yard is a crime. Pulling out your member in public is a crime. Crimes are handled by police.

If the neighbor is going to be "offended" that police were called because of public urination and defecation, then there is no saving that relationship anyway.

Time to stop giving terrible advice because people just feel contradictory.

And 911 is the correct response. Not the non emergency number. A crime in progress is supposed to go to 911.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

>Time to stop giving terrible advice because people just feel contradictory.

No, that was my opinion, and the OP can take it or leave it as they see fit. That's the difference between us - I don't insist my way is the only way.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone who responded to this post, because yesterday this post turned an otherwise boring rainy day into a very interesting, informative and definitely hilarious afternoon.

As many of you already know, I am a retired Plumber, having officially retired 3 years ago, but I do still stay a bit active by occassionally teaching some of the Plumbing Apprenticeship Classes. Yesterday I went to the Municipal Office Building and talk with my old friend, the head Plumbing inspector, primarily to get some updated information on the code for the apprenticeship class, but while there he and I got to drinking coffee and ragchewing and I happened to mention this post to him. Out of curiosity he turned to his computer and pulled the post up and after reading it he says, "I wonder how the cops would respond to all this?" We then went down the hall from the Inspections office to the Police Station, where he pulled the post up on one of their computers then asked the Chief of Police, the Desk Sargeant and two Patrolmen present how they would respond?

According to all the police and contrary to marcolo's insistence, there really was no crime committed here.

Exposing oneself in a lewd & lascious manner with the intent to offend someowe is a miss-demeaner punishable by up to 15 days in the country jail & a $50 fine, however if by a preponderance of the evidence on scene that it appears the offender exercised even the slightest effort of concealment by going behind a building, tree or bush, there is no lewd conduct.

The act of defacting is also neither a criminal or mis-demeanor offense, but rather a violation of the public health code, punishible by a $25 fine.

Now one could argue that the perpetrator of this incident was tresspassing, but her again the law is very vague. It would definitely be tresspassing if the property line was very well defined and there are signs posted stating no trespassing, and even then, the usual procedure is to issue the offending party a verbal warning on the first offense, but even that would only happen if the complaining party can positively identify the exact individual who committed the offense. The cops said they would then go next door and discuss the problem with both the homeowner & the GC and strongly suggest they co-ordinate with the offended property owner to permit them acesss to clean up the mess and strongly admonish all subs not to go on the neighbors property again. One of the cops said he would ask the GC to consider replacing the missing $70 timer as a measure of good will.

ON THE OTHER HAND:

If the offended property owner were to take the hard nosed attitude that has been suggested by Marcolo, the cops would have no choice but to write up an official complaint, complete with a photo of the evidence of defactation and if possible a positive visual identification of the perpetrator and require the complaining party to sign the report. (They also said that lacking a positive identification there really isn't much they can do, but you may rest assured they are not going to roll out the crime scene unit to get a DNA test)

They would then have to go to the jobsite and issue a citation to the offending party and call in to get a court date in the Mayors court for minor offences.

When the cops turn in the incident report and the citation at the end of their shift copies are forwarded to the city prosecutors office, and since the incident involves improper discharge of human effluent a copy is also forwarded to the health dept who then begins their own investigation.

When the health dept conducts their investigation and determines that there are no proper code approved facilties on the jobsite they could issue an immediate "Cease & desist order" and shut the job down and issue both the property owner and the GC a violation of the health code citation which could ultimately result in a court appearance and some very hefty fines.

They plumbing inspector then told me that if the building permits were cancelled by a cease & desist order, the property owner would have to apply for new permits before they could resume any work on the job.

Now I can't speak for anyone else, but if you were my neighbor and you have a problem with something originating from my property, I would certainly hope you would bring it to my attention before taking official action.

A copy of the cease & desist order is then sent to the inspections dept and they could suspend the work permits.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Thanks for that interesting account lazypup! The real world intervenes in a thread gone surreal.

Earlier today - and I can't find it now - I saw a news story about a lawsuit in which two workers sued their employer (they were doing some kind of maint. work at an airport in the Pac. NW) over access - or lack thereof - to bathroom facilities. They were not welcome in the nearest private business office bathrooms. The employer provided a bucket. They filed an OSHA complaint and were fired within the month. In the end the employer had to pay a substantial fine. So there is some truth to the OSHA angle here.

Which is all kinda academic and way over the top for this particular case between neighbors. I just thought I'd post what I learned. :-]


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Followup

Here's that story. The $332K was not an OSHA fine but was awarded as damages to the two workers who claimed they were fired for cooperating with OSHA inspectors. Except for $90K which went to the Oregon victim's comp. fund.

Their employer is a worldwide aviation maint. company with 70,000 employees. A bit different from the present case.

Here is a link that might be useful: Jury Awards Damages


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Tell your "cop friends" I personally called 911 on two homeless addicts who whipped it out to relieve themselves in front of an apartment where I used to live, and watched in satisfaction as they were led away in cuffs. No complaint was necessary since police caught them in the act. Crime, punished.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

WOW Marcolo...you really took a huge bite out of crime.... at least in your mind,

Now let us examine the facts:

You stood behind your curtains peeking out the window and called the cops, yet even after the cops arrived you did not have the intestinal fortitude to go talk to the cops... I am impressed...NOT

2nd, you alledge that the two individuals in question were "homeless addits", but you have no evidence to that fact other than your opinion based upon their appearance....I hate to tell you, but since I retired I have seriously taken up photography, and quite often when I want to shoot photos of ppl on the street I intentionally present myself in the guise of a homeless person, complete with full beard and long hair.. In this manner I can comfortably walk the streets with my backpack loaded with thousands of dollars worth of high tech photo equipment, but I don't worry about getting ripped off because most ppl, such as yourself, judge my appearance and feel they are aloof to me so they ignore my presence.(if only you knew how much money I am making while presenting that appearance...LOL).

You state that the perpetrators of this alledged crime were hauled off in cuffs, which is true. but the question is, what were they actually charged with? In the course of the officers field investigation he/she may have determined that the perpetrators had outstanding warrants for other offences. On the other hand, the cop may have handcuffed them because that is a procedural rule before transporting a suspect but the question them becomes where did he/she transport them to?

They may have been transported to the police station and went through all the booking process before being tossed in the tank overnight to await araignment in the morning, but lets face it, the courts are crowded, the jails are full and it all comes down to money. If they are homeless it is highly doubtful that they would have the ability to pay a fine, and the last thing the jail needs is another mouth to feed.

In all probability they were handcuffed and transported for your behalf so the cops don't have to worry about you tough upstanding citizens complaining about not getting your just dues from law enforcement.

My church sponsors a homeless shelter and I can tell you for certain that half a dozen times a week homeless ppl are picked up for minor things such as you describe and the perpertrators are broght directly to the homeless shelter, where the cops drop them off and get back to the real duties of law enforcement.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

It's definitely up to the "employer" (your neighbor) to tell these guys to cut it out. Unless you and the neighbor are feuding (hope not) you should drop by the neighbor and explain the problem. They'll be embarassed and/or grossed out and will definitely put an end to their lewd behavior. I've had workmen in my house and outdoors for many reasons. I always offer them the use of my downstairs bathroom. Most are very appreciative. They use this bathroom and leave it very clean. I have an old raggy towel in there for drying hands. I remember one yard crew walked to a local gas station and used their rest room.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

"Tell your "cop friends" I personally called 911 on two homeless addicts who whipped it out to relieve themselves in front of an apartment where I used to live, and watched in satisfaction as they were led away in cuffs. No complaint was necessary since police caught them in the act. Crime, punished."

That must of been one mighty long whiz if you had time to observe, call the cops, the cops to arrive, and see said whiz still in progress.

Consider me skeptical of this little anecdote.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Haha, I missed that. Maybe they were drinking those 42 oz Big Gulps and saving it up!


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

We are master electricians working in Dallas County, just to the south from Collin County, where we occasionaly work. We mainly work inside the home owner's residence where we are offered restroom priviledges. On the other hand, if we are working as subs for a GC, the ones with which we work always provide porta potties without exception. Very simply, we don't pee outdoors!


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Good for you Texas.

Just make sure ya don't pee on the work when it's energized... :-o LOL


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Consider me skeptical of this little anecdote.

Can you talk me through the reasons why I care whether you're skeptical of what I witnessed? I'm not following that, sorry.

You stood behind your curtains peeking out the window and called the cops, yet even after the cops arrived you did not have the intestinal fortitude to go talk to the cops... I am impressed...NOT

2nd, you alledge that the two individuals in question were "homeless addits", but you have no evidence to that fact

I stopped reading here, because it wasn't necessary to proceed. You know I had no evidence for that fact because....?

I did notice you went on for paragraph after paragraph after paragraph, despite not having an inkling, a clue, an idea, a whisper of what went on. And again, I am supposed to attend to your assessment because.....?

The OP is long gone. The thread is entirely taken over by people who want to disagree for the sake of disagreeing. That makes some people feel special.

A simple Google search reveals that soiling another's property is a crime. No need to read a lot of hot air about it.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

An argument with a fool can only prove there is more than one fool


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

We've had workmen in our backyard digging and creating a basement for our addition. The GC has a line item in the budget for a port-a-potty, but he hasn't brought it in yet, since his actual workers haven't started the project. I have no doubt that they are urinating in my backyard, and honestly it doesn't really bother me. Consider it nitrogen for your lawn. As long as you don't get a peep show, what's the problem?

I am more bothered by the cigarette butts they are leaving all over the place, but that's another story.

I imagine that the #2 culprit was the person who you originally confronted about urinating. This is, of course, a very childish and somewhat criminal response to your confrontation. This is totally out of line. I would hope that those construction workers who have been working in our backyard would have the decency to go to the nearest gas station or fast food locale to do any serious business.

Sorry this happened to you. I think solid waste crossed the line and you must say something to your neighbor, who in turn should have the GC give them a stern reprimand.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Maybe #2 was from a stray dog.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Where else could one read an entire blog and poo & pee and be laughing. No its not a laughing matter - the subject is funny though.

Why not call the contractors supervisor and calmly explain what you've seen? Either there work truck or a sign in the yard should give you a phone contact. I'd also just ask the homeowner if they "knew" what was happening? Chances are tthey will not be happy either. Good luck.


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RE: Ugh -- Workmen going to Toilet in my Yard

Stuck in the basement supervising neighborhood kids cause it's too hot outside to play.

Looking for a little entertainment and boy did I find it.

Lmbo.

@lazypup. You had me roaring with laughter.

Sad to see this thread end.


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