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palimpsest

At 45, Time-capsule not equal to neglect.

palimpsest
9 years ago

Perhaps this is beating a dead horse, but I have read in a number of posts that people draw the conclusion that the people who live in decorative-time-capsules "neglect the routine maintenance" of the house as much as they have "neglected to redecorate". When I posted a couple pictures of my parents house vs. a friend's father's house that was having trouble selling because it had never been maintained, someone said, kind of snarkily, I thought, that they would assume both houses were in lousy condition but that someone ran the vacuum more frequently in my parents' house--because anyone who hadn't gotten new drapes since 1987 neglected everything. (And perhaps that this cleanliness was more "dishonest" than the house that was clearly neglected all around).

Anyway here are some pictures of a 45 year old house and current conditions. Nothing was scrubbed, recaulked or that sort of thing. The kitchen and baths will all be gutted by the new owners.

Seam at kitchen sink.
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1969 Oven:
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Corning counter insert over DW in front of Toaster, used daily for 45 years:
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Sink and Hall-Mack cup holder in hall bathroom:
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Hall bathtub
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Basement fridge (1970):
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This post was edited by palimpsest on Sat, Jan 3, 15 at 3:26

Comments (29)

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    I think there is a failure of many people these days to have the imagination of what a house can become. They seem to think that everything should be "move in ready". Anything shown in less than that state is obviously run down.

    They fail to understand the difference between maintenance and updates.

    In showing rentals, those of us of a certain age will remember we viewed and apartment and it was occupied. The current tenants furnishings went with them, time was spent cleaning painting replacing etc and then you moved in. You wanted time to give your landlord notice just like the person moving out of the place you were viewing. Now, if I show an occupied apartment, I get people who are horrified that I did not have the carpet replaced and repainted PRIOR to the current moving out. I had one become livid that we were going to reuse the kitchen cabinets, appliances and bathroom fixtures. She was horrified that the apartment was not going to be stripped to bare floors and walls and rebuilt prior to her arrival. She must have no idea that what she could afford in rent could not cover the costs she considered to be standard practice. She was really irate that I had the gall to show her that apartment. FYI it had new carpet, vinyl, blinds, paint and some new appliances and had been thoroughly cleaned. It was move in ready, just not 100% new. I thought she was going to slap me she was so mad.

    People...go figure

  • awm03
    9 years ago

    Wow. That truly is impressive. I've spent this week scrubbing a 46-year-old home my son bought: we will replace every light switch and electrical outlet in the house because they are covered with finger print/smoker's grime, as is everything else in the house, of course. Looking at your photos in comparison is astonishing.

    Did your parents have scheduled routines for cleaning chores? Or were they just meticulously neat in their daily life? I'd love to know how they maintained their home so remarkably well.

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    9 years ago

    We had those soap/cup/toothbrush holders in our house when I was growing up. Also had the Hall-Mack recessed toilet tissue holders, towel bars, and medicine cabinets. The house was a custom-build in the 1940s! Still had the same baths when we sold in 2008 or so. I wish I had those in my house. They rotate, so you don't have the soap, toothbrushes, and cup visible all the time. Love that.

    That stainless edge in the kitchen and the Hall-Mark would have me guessing older than 45 years. I would guess that the hand held shower was added after the initial build, but that soap dish could easily be older than 1969. We had those too. Our 60 year-old tile looked as clean as that in your pictures, but it was scrubbed regularly. Boy, I wish I could have talked DH into buying out my sister and keeping that house! Sigh.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Honestly I think the two big things were my parents did not touch anything with dirty hands, opened and closed things using the handles, and wiped up spills and crumbs as soon as it happened. My dad washes his hands after he read the paper.

    My mother has been dead for four years and the cleaning lady has only been coming for 4 hours a week, vacuuming, doing a bit of dusting and cleaning the bathrooms for about five years. The house hasn't gotten the "real" housekeeping it used to get since about 2009.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    All the manuals are still there, too:

  • joaniepoanie
    9 years ago

    My grandmother, her daughter(my aunt) and later aunt's DH and 3 kids lived in the same row house in NE Philly for 60 years. They were meticulous housekeepers. They never updated the kitchen, except for new appliances when needed, flooring and repainting the cabinets....original drainboard sink. Upstairs bath (1930's black and yellow tile) was never redone, except for a vanity sink. Though outdated, those rooms looked just as fresh and clean in 1999 when they sold the house as I remembered them in the 50's. Spring cleaning was done twice a year when summer drapes and rugs were switched out for winter drapes and rugs. A lot of the furniture was from the 30's, 40's, and 50's and it too was well maintained. They kept up with painting and all needed repairs and routine maintenance. Even though the house had been lived in for 60 years...it certainly did not look shabby or rundown when it was sold.

  • maddie260
    9 years ago

    My parents' house was exactly like your parents' house. Everything was maintained in pristine shape, and replaced only IF it could not be repaired. Thankfully, we are in a market where the selling price reflected such. The letters we received from potential buyers were respectful of such (I'm sure some just wanted the house!)

  • C Marlin
    9 years ago

    This thread reminded me of this house I saw listed. It was described as vintage condition, I am amazed all the decor stayed the same for many years. Looks like one purple chair died, but that round bed lasted.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Vintage Home

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago

    I don't understand the need to remodel/redo something just because it's true to the character of the home. If it's well-maintained and in good condition, who cares how old it is?

    Good grief, I hate that term dated. One of my friends grew up on in 1890's Victorian full of antiques from the period and with the original bathroom fixtures, right down to the water closet with tank way above your head. A wooden tank, no less. It was wonderful and worked like a charm.

    Your parents home is lovely and it's easy to see how lovingly they cared for it. It's sad that someone is gutting those wonderful vintage spaces. They will probably eliminate most of the character in the home and make it look cookie-cutter. Ugh!

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Realistically, this house needs a new kitchen.

    Some of the base cabinets/drawers are just worn out. The layout could be better: it's like a one and a half person kitchen, functionally and multiple cooks can get in each other's way.

    If I were moving into this house, I'd gut the kitchen :). The challenge will be to put in a current kitchen that looks like it belongs as much as this one does.

    I am not as certain about the baths. I think the hall bath is fine although I would convert it to a single sink + longer counter. The master has mismatched grab bars here and there. I would probably redo that one myself, especially if I were 28 like the new owners. Again, it's a matter of getting one that "fits".

  • franksmom_2010
    9 years ago

    I would trade that pristine white tiled bath for my hideous fiberglass garden tub any day. And you can have my awful cheap wood paneling (finished with Polyshades!!) and I'll take that calm, clean and lovely tile.

    I think there's a certain expectation these days that every single thing in a house needs to be new and on trend, no matter the age of the house. I had a coworker who had a house built, then sold it a few years later. After some showings, the realtor suggested updating a few things. Updating! The house was THREE years old.

    I would rather have my out of style 1970's kitchen cabinets that are solid wood, over any new MDF and laminate crap any day. The next owners can gut it if they want to.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    The challenge will be to put in a current kitchen that looks like it belongs as much as this one does.

    I'm not one who necessarily wants the interior of my house to match the style/era in which the house was built, but that's an aesthetic thing, I definitely appreciate a pristine old home and wish mine looked like that after one year of living here, but as I've said on here many times, a housekeeping is not my forte.

    As for the above re the kitchen, my friend moved into a 1920s era California Meditteranean style home. Her instructions to the architect/KD were "I want it to look like it's always been here". It did, but it also functioned like a thoroughly modern (and beautiful) kitchen.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The kitchen had a relatively innovative layout for 1969, at least for where I grew up, with an island, a pantry cabinet, a desk.

    But for most of it's life the desk had the kitchen TV and the microwave on it. The microwave to the far left. This was actually convenient to some extent, because it was out of the way and close to the table. But the double ovens are in a traffic area, and the skinny island is now considered dangerous. (But we were talking at Christmas how convenient it was to be able to cook from both sides in a pinch. The person making the gravy isn't in the way if they stand on the back side.) The Nutone built in appliance center was not in a great prep spot (plus the spindle that drove the attachments eventually rounded off.--I think someone started making these again). The wallpaper and flooring are late 80s, the rest is 1969. The 1969 floor would probably still be there had the icemaker not had a slow leak.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago

    Those Nu-Tone built-ins are the reason I won't do a builtin coffee maker!

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago

    Oh, sjhockeyfan, how I wish I could have given your friend my 1971 Mediterranean style kitchen cabinets which were installed in a 1949 MCM house! Excellent condition but totally inappropriate style.

    When we first started talking about redoing our kitchen, I was talking about it with friends who just don't get it. So many want me to put in a farmhouse sink. Or cover up the soffit with fancy crown moldings. Or a bunch of other ideas that while lovely in the right setting just don't fit a 1949 MCM house.

    OH! In the middle of typing this post, my husband called for me to come look. He's chiseling off the ugly old vinyl floor and subfloor and it's revealing the lovely original linoleum. The little piece that shows looks great. Here's to hoping there aren't too-too many nail-holes in it or other problems so we can use it. I'm so excited at the possibility!

    franksmom_2010, a three year old home needs updating? That's just crazy talk.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Well I also hesitate to do a built-in microwave for the same reason. (At least the Nutone only left a couple of weird round buttons on the counter surface after it stopped functioning properly)

    The microwaves in this house lasted for
    1) 33 years
    2) 5 years
    3) several months

    I don't want to build something in that 1) has a non-standard dimension and 2) a currently lousy track record.

  • peegee
    9 years ago

    cmarlin - your link leads to a sign-in page, unfortunately.
    Pal, very interesting... although my new mid-fifties home is currently being renovated after being nearly fully gutted, I have no regrets as it will function much better for me after, and nothing was of any special quality and some things not maintained at all. Although nearly *every* single thing in the house is being replaced, from the wiring up, the furniture and nearly all accessories and fixtures moving in will be those I have had, most for years, including many older/antique pieces I acquired in the 70's and up. Should I live another 20-30 years, I suspect this home will look pretty much exactly the same as it will when I finally settle in.... but the house and everything in it should be well maintained.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I have no regrets about essentially gutting my 1965 house either. But when I am done, it will still look like it was built in 1965 or could have been, with the exception of the appliances. I am not against remodeling at all, even if it involves gutting, but I believe strongly in doing it in a sensitive fashion. I'm not going for "time capsule" either. I think there are ways to remodel that aren't jarring, that's all.

    I can think of a few kitchens that would fit nicely in my parents' house that would look both relatively current and "appropriate", and I would put hardwood flooring at least on the entire first floor of the house (as built, there is none).

  • justgotabme
    9 years ago

    I didn't take time to read everything, I'll do that tomorrow when I'm not ready to head to bed, but had to say that anyone that thinks because a home was not updated has to be run down, not mater how the outward appearances is either a fan of HGTV or they are young enough that they don't remember when things were built to last if properly cared for.

  • marcolo
    9 years ago

    My parents' various residences were pretty much like this. The kitchens got updated every once in a while. But everything looked exactly the same as the day it was installed forever.

    But I don't know how common this level of care is anymore. And I don't know how many people have been in houses like this, which may account for at least part of the confusion between original and neglected.

  • weedyacres
    9 years ago

    My parents-in-law started snow-birding to south Texas 20 years ago. They bought a 20-year-old trailer for $12,000 and have meticulously maintained it, in all its avocado and burnt orange glory. FIL even waxes the outside every year. They decided to sell it this year, and got $12,500 for it.

    That's what good maintenance will do for you.

  • tomatofreak
    9 years ago

    I'm not one of those people who automatically think that the house must be a Mr. Fixit nightmare just because everything is just like it was 20, 30, 40 years or more ago. I've had elderly friends whose home I'd have loved to live in, as-is. I might have taken the fussy, formal drapes down, but I'd not have touched the kitchen with its pristine 1940's O'Keefe and Merritt stove. It's silly, I think, to assume that furnishings and maintenance are two peas in a pod. Of course, I do think, when I walk into a house that's a total dirty mess, that if they couldn't take the time to vacuum, they probably never cleaned the furnace, changed any filters or fixed any broken pipes.

  • schicksal
    9 years ago

    Really, REALLY want the bathroom cupholder!

    Our bathrooms are sad... the 1950s tile was taken out about 1980, someone did a poor job and termites set in and the previous owners put in bathrooms #3 about a decade ago. The worse of the two has a stained fiberglass shower/tub combo, cracking floor tile and only a pedestal sink - no cabinets anywhere of any kind! We plan on de-renovating them and are always on the hunt for original type accessories like that. The goal is to make them look like they've always been there.

  • allison0704
    9 years ago

    Both of my grandparent's homes remained the same from way before I was born until they passed away (I was an adult with children for all)⦠even though my paternal grandfather owned a furniture factory (burned down before I was born) and furniture store. They could have had the newest, etc but kept the same furniture for decades. I think part of it was that generation did not feel the need to keep up with the Jones' and/or they were more easily content - not influenced by what was new each year. They were savers, not spenders, but had the money to do both. Their homes were cleaned and maintained.

    My father owned furniture stores for several decades, yet never replaced their original furnishings purchased after they married and restored a condemned home (late 1950s). Furniture there went to the next house (1970) and more was added (much larger home). Yet when they built their current home (1985) the original upholstered pieces bought in the 1950s came with them, and were recovered. Some things were sold that did not fit the house (DR and MBR) and replaced with then new that they still own 29 years later. Both just turned 80yo and things will stay as is until their deaths. Their house is far from dated, unkept or not taken care of (couldn't find this referenced in the other thread).

    DH and I started going to antique stores when we first married (33yrs last week) and were in our first house just over 20yrs. We still have (and use) everything purchased then and since. I tend to buy pieces that can be used in various rooms/in various ways. That said, I also tend to not move things around once I get them where I want/like, but this came in handy when we built 8yr ago.

    As far as empty rooms, we have only ever had one of those. When we purchased our first home we had two very small children, then added a third baby. When she was 1yo, we furnished the LR, so for the two years prior they got to ride toys and play in there when it was raining. But we stayed completely debt free, so it was worth the short wait.

    I don't know what changed in our world to make so many of the newest generations watch trends, change their homes more often, etc other than more access to the ever changing decor (trends) via TV, magazines and the internet. While I don't have any of our original upholstered pieces and my taste has changed from being a newly married early 20s yo to mid 50s, I would never want to or even think about getting rid of everything to start over. I believe my final taste/style was acquired 15 years ago and isn't going anywhere.

  • bossyvossy
    9 years ago

    When I first married I was intimidated by "old" anything. Being that neither spouse or me were handy or grew in households were you fix/maintain things, I used to get cold sweats just thinking about things breaking down and me having to do without. Everything in my first house was new and guess what: they started breaking down and/or were defective so I was faced with my biggest fear anyway. Experience taught me what to look for regardless of something being old or new. Maybe the HGTV generation is going thru what I went thru.

    Palimpsest, I hope one day my house is displayed like the one you have shown in OP (amazing!!!) I enjoy working towards that goal.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    My thought is even if you are going to gut remodel certain areas of a house like this, you are starting out with a good base. In areas like the LR (and everywhere else for that matter) there are exactly as many nail holes as there were pictures and only in the spot needed to hang the picture.

    There is one spot right inside the front door/ door-to-garage area -- where one of my sisters has repeatedly knocked a picture off the wall with her backpack 8-/

    --when my mom was alive she would have someone patch it and touch up the paint. We've kinda given up on that one.
    There were ten things hung here, and they got cleaned behind. There may be a lot of dust and cobwebs behind the mirror, everyone is afraid to touch it.

    This post was edited by palimpsest on Sat, Jan 3, 15 at 3:27

  • debrak2008
    9 years ago

    I'll admit that if I were looking at house like your parents I would have concerns. While super clean and appearing in good repair I would look very closely at things like windows, utilities systems etc. The reason for concern is that time passes quickly and often people, more so as you get older, don't realize that maintenance or replacement needs to be done. Like someone saying, "we just put that furnace in just a few years ago". A few years is actually 20. Or "those are high quality windows". Yes they were when they were installed 40 years ago. I'm in my 40's and already find myself recently saying "we just bought that mattress" when it was actually 5 years ago. In know many people like this in our area. They don't think anything, unless it complete fails, ever needs to be replaced or updated in any way and everything seems to be much newer than it actually is.

  • palimpsest
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    That's true, to some extent. It has the original Pella thermopane windows. There are no GFI outlets (an easy fix, but while the house had plenty of electrical circuits for the late sixties, it's probably a little under what you would want now)

    But the HVAC is under ten years old the water heater is about a year old and the roof was replaced this past summer. The redwood porch was checked for rot, cleaned, stained and resealed a few months ago. The roof still had several good years on it, but my dad did not want someone buying a house that was going to need a new roof right away.

    I am not sure what I would do about the 45 year old windows. They are still operational and there is no rot anywhere. I am sure new windows would be more efficient but I am not sure they would be better windows.

    This house was competing with a certain amount of housing stock that had 50+ year old furnaces, and one outlet in each bedroom. I know someone who looked at a house there that had no heat registers in the bedrooms, just open grates to let something up from downstairs. (We lived in one of those before this one).

    But I understand what you mean. My dad has taken to wearing a coat that he wore 50 years ago and there's a picture of him holding me as a toddler. He insists it's not that old. He wanted to know if we should have the carpets cleaned. He was going to have the bedding dry-cleaned in the master bedroom because it matches the drapes. He thinks everything is fine the way it is and that the new owners are going to love everything just as it is, and that's not at all realistic.

    But, I agree, a 45 year old house is a 45 year old house, and the essential structure is 45 years old, not new. But if you want new, you should look at new. :)

    This post was edited by palimpsest on Tue, Dec 30, 14 at 11:41

  • mudhouse_gw
    9 years ago

    He wanted to know if we should have the carpets cleaned. He was going to have the bedding dry-cleaned in the master bedroom because it matches the drapes. He thinks everything is fine the way it is and that the new owners are going to love everything just as it is, and that's not at all realistic.

    This touches my heart. We have the same situation with my parent, except in our case we're the ones who purchased the house, and changes have to be handled with sensitivity, and careful communication.

    It makes things difficult for us at times, but I know it's a sign of how much they loved the house. And of course the love shows in your photos above, too.

    Bossyvossy, thank you for posting this:
    When I first married I was intimidated by "old" anything. Being that neither spouse or me were handy or grew in households were you fix/maintain things, I used to get cold sweats just thinking about things breaking down and me having to do without.

    As we grew up, it seemed we were always working on something (and Dad was always fixing things.) Your perspective from a different background makes complete sense, and it really helps me understand something I should have been more thoughtful about.