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scarlett001

Starting from scratch with paint colors (incl. photos of house)

Scarlett001
10 years ago

I give up!! I just cannot find the right colour of yellow/orange paint. Almost every paint that looks nice during the day manages to find a green or dull undertone at night. My house is difficult - turns the yellow paints lovely during the day but even orangey yellows take on green undertones at night. Ugh.

==============================

So...maybe I need to give up on yellows - maybe turn to creamy whites or something or anything else you guys can come up with. I need ideas as I feel like I am never going to paint my house!! Keep in mind that every paint I've tried seems to look muddy or green at night - my house plays up green undertones at night (and I have changed lightbulbs to help).

I will post some photos of my house. It is a work in progress but the photos give a feel for things. The curtains in the kitchen will be going. Let me know that paint colours you might consider. I want a bright sunny yet warm feel to the place - not too dark or anything.

This post was edited by Scarlett001 on Thu, Oct 31, 13 at 1:51

Comments (58)

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I will look up those colours.

    Different lightbulbs (Reveal) were tried quite some time ago and the walls are still murky green at night - somewhat better, but still ick.

  • prairiemom61
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Take a look at SW Kilim Beige. No undertones, goes with almost everything.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The colours mentioned look great online - will go get samples to see them in person.

    In the creamy colours, I am looking at BM Mannequin Cream, Subtle, Vanilla Ice Cream, Sugar Cookie and Cream (cream has the most warm orange undertones). Anyone have experience with these colours. They are all about LVR 80-88 or so.

  • yayagal
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Take a look at pumpkin seeds below, it would go so well with your gorgeous sofa and no green cast.

    Here is a link that might be useful: BM pumpkin seeds

  • tuesday_2008
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you are still interested in yellow, I PROMISE you Valspar Homstead Resort Sunwash does not turn "murky" . I have it in my dining room and a hall and it is the most versatile color I have ever used. First of all, I get very little natural light during the day in most of my rooms. My entire house is surrounded by maples that we planted too close 40 years ago - we are considering taking them out - plus numerous pine and spruce.

    My DR used to be my LR which has double windows in the front that replaced the old "picture" window years ago. We get actual direct light in that room about 2:00 - 4:00 in the afternoon. I am looking at it this morning with no light and it looks soft and pale; it will look more yellow with NO UNDERTONES, when the sun shines through this afternoon. Tonight with artificial light, it will still look like a creamy yellow.

    I never see green or tan or peach or "murky" with that color. I have also had several people copy that color.

    I have it paired with 40 year old red oak floors that have darkened, a rug that has golden yellows, brick reds, and greens, and sage drapes. But it also looks good with soft blues and greens; blacks and browns, etc.

    I think I could easily paint my whole house in that color.

    The actual paint chip looked like a dirty white.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you for ideas. Will check out those paint colours.

    BTW, I've found photos of this BM paint colour Kansas Grain. The photos look reasonably true to the paint chip, and given my house I think that the apricot will be played down a bit more than in these photos so it may be a bit more yellow looking, while maintaining the apricot feel. I'd of course test this colour out on my wall, but it has promise. In particular, I think that it would really play up my kitchen floors nicely, and also work with the sofa colour - more so than a more pure yellow I think.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Another photo.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Another photo.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Another photo

  • Holly- Kay
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Scarlett,the Kansas grain is lovely. I adore a soft apricat color and that particular one is stunning.

    We have SW Jersey Cream in our living room. I just love it though I think we need a darker colorin this room. I like it so much I am considering using it in our library.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you. Can't wait to pick up a sample pot and test some boards and patches on my wall. It seems very promising.

    I did try Jersey Cream at one point - very nice - although in my house, it showed green undertones (at night especially) so it's why I have to get a paint with more apricot undertones.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, the sample can of Kansas Grain (I also picked up a couple of other lighter colours including Pumpkin Seeds at the same time) looked NOTHING like those pictures. I thought that the paint chip did resemble the photos. But in reality, the colour is so washed out so as to look almost white (and not a nice white) - barely any hint of any colour. And in my front hallway that has halogen lighting, it looks white/grey (not even a hint of apricot or yellow)!! I don't understand!! As I was painting, I actually thought something was wrong with the paint - but not the case, it was just particularly white/grey in the hallway.

    I thought that my other colours were too intense (75% BM Straw, BM Birmingham Cream, Wheatfield, RH Butter etc.), so I went down in intensity. I guess I went too much the other way as this was just too pale and bland, and not in a way that I liked.

    Honestly, if the creamy colours don't look good in my house, and the orangey yellows are intense and turn a bit green at night unless I overdo the apricot, I just don't know where to turn next!! I should have left my paint the original grey/blue colour but it did not work with the furniture and the look I wanted, so I let it go.

    Sigh. Has anyone else ever found that no colour seems to look good in their house?? I'm so fed up and my house is now a mess of paint patches. I just want this over and done with. But I have to find a colour that is at least reasonable in my house - is that too much to ask?!!

  • dabunch
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think what you are experiencing is lighting issues.

    Example : I have a rug that looks beautiful in the day but looks dirty at night (it's not dirty!) with the lighting on from above. When I turn the night lamp on it looks fine. The rug looks a different color when I move it to the Southern exposure vs the Northern part of the house.

    I struggled with painting probably like no other person, because I have an open concept with the main area going from South to North. I learned that the back wall being in the Northern section actually looks better with a darker color. I wanted to stay with a light color... I chose BM French Canvas. It's sort of a Chameleon like color pale green, very light, and goes with everything. Then my kitchen looked awful with the same color.
    I've tried going almost white in the kitchen. I figured that I couldn't go wrong. I tried BM Mayonnaise, and AF- 20 BM Marscapone. Those colors looked like puke. These 2 colors are beautiful in the right lighting.

    In all this expensive mess (I spent a lot on samples pulling my hair out!), I found that medium colors keep their colors more true (don't change at night to puke) than lighter colors.
    Recently, I painted approx. 3.000 sq ft of my house and it was not a pretty experience. I can tell you that in my house the colors look NOTHING like others claim to be, or even on the swatches. When I place the swatches over the wall I can see that the paint was mixed correctly, but if I look at the swatch in any other area it looks different. It's all because of lighting, and the North/South/East/West exposures.

    BM Powell Buff keeps it's true color. Also, you can look into BM AF-305 Ylang Ylang.

  • nosoccermom
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For what it's worth: I just read Maria Killam on tiles, undertones, etc. At least on my monitor, your floor tiles seem to have a pink undertone, which according to her, means avoiding anything with yellow or yellow undertones.
    See below and especially the links that are included (picking paint/beige)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Killam

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Interesting story dabunch. My house seems to be as complex as that discussed above. I too thought going lighter would sort things out, but apparently not the case.

    I read the Killam article, but I am confused where that leaves me. Green is exactly the colour that I do not want in my house (the green of current paint at night looks awful with tile) - I could not imagine deliberately choosing a green beige!! That is what I am trying to get rid of now (well greenish yellow/beige). So I guess she would say to perhaps get a pink-ish beige - I kind of cringe at that as I hate pink-ish beige. I was hoping something with the apricot undertones (which she does say could work) is what I could locate, but I don't want the house too orange, and cannot locate the right shade. Sigh.

    Anyone have suggestions of a paint with lots of orange-ish undertones but not too apricot. I thought that Kansas Grain was that, but apparently it is too light??

  • dabunch
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Scarlett,
    My other suggestions are to check out the BM Affinity colors AF-325, AF- 335. These colors have some peach/pink in them.
    BM Linen White definitely has a pink tone.
    How does BM Shaker Beige look in your house?

    I do not see a pink tone in your tile, but that may be my computer.
    I also suggest that if you paint swatches on your walls or on paper give it at least a week to see how the color changes. The colors tend to get lighter.
    I hear you about the pukey green. I tried BM Niveous and BM Elephant Tusk on a swatch and BOTH gave me the ewww factor, yet they are gorgeous in other peoples' homes.

    There is a light color by Behr (home Depot). I'm sure BM can match it. In my house it looked peachy. In my niece's and sister's house it was perfect-lighting, carpeting etc were different.

  • anele_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am so confused re: Maria Killam. I thought Funcolors said there is no such thing as an undertone?

  • dabunch
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I forgot to mention the light Behr color, it's called Cottontail.

    Anele,
    I read on Maria Kilim's blog that North walls do better with dark colors. Coincidently, I figured it out myself way before I read her blog. I kept struggling with the Northern wall. It almost always looked like a different color from the rest of the area...
    As to undertones, I see different undertones, whether they are pink, yellow, green. Maybe it's an individual eye perception?

    I experimented with tones and noticed that I need the color to have more peach/pink in the Western sun in order for it to look the same shade as in the rest of the house. The same color looks washed out in the Western exposure, if it's not deeper.

    BM Niveous was a beautiful soft beige on a Southern wall, without direct sun. It took on green, instead of beige in the Western part of the house. Greens took on Blue....just sayin. Basically, whatever the possible undertone in the paint, it comes to the forefront in certain parts of the house depending on the sun exposure, and other colors in the room.

    I have BM Moonshine in the upstairs bathroom (West). It looks Grey-Blue. I took the same swatch into a downstairs dark mudroom without windows and the color was a beautiful Green-Grey. It's crazy.

  • anele_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dabunch, not sure if you are familiar with Funcolors, but she is a pro in the field of color. Below is a link explaining her case against the concept of undertones.

    That being said, I have a million years to go before I will truly understand FC's ideas, so I still refer to them as undertones, too.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Color Undertones

  • Vertise
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You can still think of it in terms of the word "undertone". I believe FC is saying that it's not really an "undertone" per se, it's that the color is actually in that "undertone's" color family. So that beige with the green quality is really a green. The gray that goes green or sometimes blue, is a blue-green to begin with; it's in that color/hue family.

    Whatever helps you to understand what you are seeing or how to pick your color is what's important. If you're used to the concept of undertone, start thinking about it there. For example: you want a gray with a blue undertone. So next go to the blue color/hue family of the deck to look for your gray and you will nail what we see and think of as a subtle undertone.

    Do warm yellow grays turn up in the yellow section of the fandeck? Maybe not. Don't have a deck in front of me. So it might be harder to find some color subtleties depending on how the manufacturer has organized things.

    This post was edited by snookums2 on Mon, Nov 4, 13 at 19:32

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am going to go radical. Since yellow/apricots look yellow on my house during the day, and even show some green ick at night, and true yellows are out of the question due to the green ick factor in my house - I will get a sample can of paint that is way more peachy/pink/apricot that I would normally choose based on paint chips in the store. I just want to see what happens!! I've been trying paints in the same general theme and they are all failing, so I thought it is worth my $8 to get a sample can that pushes the envelope of apricot and see what it does in my house. Will update once I know!!

    I will go buy Beachcrest Sand (a kind of peachy/apricot colour).

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Beachcrest Sand is a HUGE improvement. So far, I can only see it in the evening light (dark outside) but no ikky green undertones and it looks great with the kitchen floor in this light. It could end up having a tad more pink (more peachy-pink than apricot) than I want but I just cannot tell in this light.

    Now, if this particular colour pushes things too red/pink in daylight, then there is a colour between this Beachcrest Sand and my other set of colours that were overall too pure yellow without enough apricot (Straw/RH Butter etc) - Cottage Yellow by Eddie Bauer/Valspar paints seems a nice apricot - Lowes has test paint pots and BM has a formula for it in their computer.

    I think that I do have to push the apricot thing much further than I had been doing to get it to look yellow/apricot in my house. Feeling very hopeful...

    This post was edited by Scarlett001 on Mon, Nov 4, 13 at 22:47

  • anele_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Snookums, yes-- I understand what FC means in that regard. It's more that I am referring to the fact that even the pros do not have the same vocabulary to discuss these things . . .but from what I've read of FC, it seems she says she is OK with that, and is open to differing views.

    Would be so nice if everything were very systematic-- as in, when paint colors are made, fabrics, carpets, etc. the colors were catalogued/organized with some sort of universal or standard system. Wouldn't that be amazing, esp. as shopping online is such an asset-- we have to depend on our monitors (which is impossible) and/or wait for samples to arrive . . .and samples are not even always possible.

    Scarlett, sorry for going OT! I am thrilled that you are moving in the right direction. I love apricot-- that warm glow is so inviting. I will be very interested to hear what you find works!

  • Vertise
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "It's more that I am referring to the fact that even the pros do not have the same vocabulary to discuss these things"

    I see. This is true in a lot of fields, some surprising and frustrating when trying to communicate. I am finding it helpful to think in terms of color families, with these elusive ones. To me it is still an undertone because it's a subtle nuance, but viewing them in terms of color family, rather than say white or gray or beige, does seem to help to make it easier to navigate.

    I'm with Scarlett on looking for a color that is not quite what you are looking for, in order to get to the one you want. How did it look in the daytime, Scarlett?

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Beachcrest Sand seemed pretty good although I do feel as if I'd have to paint a test wall to feel more certain. This Beachcrest Sand colour is a light version of the colour Butter Rum (they used to be on the same old card where the colours were more related than on new cards). I'm working a fine line to avoid going green at night, but too not look too pink/fleshy during the day!! My concern is if this colour will show too pink when all over my house, or if it will be more apricot in feel.

    I like Cottage Yellow by Valspar but have some concerns it may be a way too perky (!!) apricot yellow - as in a bit too neon. Is there any way to tell - presumably LRV tells you how light it is, but not how neon. I am not sure where I find an apricot that is light yet muted - most light apricots seem very bright and if they are not as bright, then they have some grey mixed in and will look kind of muddy in my house!!

    Does anyone have any strong feeling with my photos above, if you would go for a lighter paint (not off-white, but lighter LRV) or something a tad more medium-toned (but not dark)? I found some gorgeous terra cotta type colours that look lovely with the tile, but to get the terra cotta look one has to go WAY too dark for my tastes - a shame as when you start to lighten terra cotta, it begins to be a tad pink or salmon coloured and the effect is sort of lost.

  • anele_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Snookums, yes, it is the communication, esp. as we are trying to do it virtually!

    Scarlett, I think you are very wise to do a test wall. Since yellows build on each other (maybe all colors do, but I think yellow is more apt to reflect?) you will want to start a little lower key than your desired outcome.

    I know exactly what you mean about the terra cotta. I gravitate to orange, pink, salmon, but there is a very fine line where it gets to be "icky," for lack of a better word!

    BTW-- the kitchen paint color you have right now looks really pretty during the day. Goes so well with your tiles. It is a shame about nighttime.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is interesting that the paint does look pretty good in that photo with the floor - but in real life, it rarely looks that good during the day. If it always looked like the photo, I'd probably leave well enough alone.

    Interestingly enough, I have the promotional photos of my flooring, and the designers setting up the photos did go with orange-ish (orange/yellow?) and pink-ish paints it seems. I prefer the orange-toned paint over the pinkish beige - I would tire of the latter very quickly I think.

    This post was edited by Scarlett001 on Wed, Nov 6, 13 at 10:30

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pinkish beige paint.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    From my house - scary night-time photo of my paint!! Scary, isn't it? Reasonably true to what I see in real life. Ghastly with the floor at this time of day. Even during the daytime, you can still see the green undertones at certain times of day - when the sun shines, it plays a but more neutral/warm (not quite orange but hints of it) and that is when I like it most - which tells me that I am compelled in a good way by the orange tones in paint.

    This post was edited by Scarlett001 on Wed, Nov 6, 13 at 10:28

  • anele_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also have an aversion to green undertones (not green), but I really like your color. It is soothing and works very well with your wood.

    I am also trying to embrace green undertones in general now because I think they will be easier to work with in my own house.

    In the pics you posted, the first one (tiles and wall) have a green undertone on my monitor. The wall color is what I would classify as ochre. The second looks completely different (the tile, too). I like the first one more as well.

    Is it possible that you would like something a little darker than your paint color, to show the green more (vs hinting at it) or do you dislike green completely? In the 1st pic on my monitor, the color is bolder than what you have but (to me) still very greenish.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    but from what I've read of FC, it seems she says she is OK with that, and is open to differing views.

    Absolutely. I'm a color expert so it's my job to meet others on their color terms.

    Whether you need to approach color via figure of speech undertones, colormetric by the numbers, by a specific color order system (I know them all), or by the seat of your pants -- we can do that.

    Shoving my color point of view, my approach down your throats is not the goal.

    Introducing you to the fact that there is more than one color point of view and more than one way to approach color is indeed my mission. Full spectrum color mixing is yet another example of said mission.

    That has not changed since the first day I posted on this forum. If nothing else, I've been consistent since 2004. :-D

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Would be so nice if everything were very systematic-- as in, when paint colors are made, fabrics, carpets, etc. the colors were catalogued/organized with some sort of universal or standard system. Wouldn't that be amazing, esp. as shopping online is such an asset-- we have to depend on our monitors (which is impossible) and/or wait for samples to arrive . . .and samples are not even always possible.

    ... but it DOES EXIST. It is more than 100 years old.

    About six variations of the one, core color system exists. Every manufacturer of everything on the planet uses a formal, established color order system.

    They are all based on hue families.

    This is not my point of view, by the way. It's simply fact of the matter of how color works.

    Trained color experts are trained on the century old system -- which is why we can navigate color any time, anywhere with anybody. i.e. pictures aren't necessary, swatches are secondary not primary because we function by color notations.

  • Vertise
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Scarlett, I was looking at a sample board I have around, Martha Stewart's Gingerroot from Home Depot. It's a warm golden yellow color with amber/peach tones to it, not terribly light but not very dark. Lighter than a mid tone. It doesn't seem neon but rather mellow though hard to say going from 2 x2 feet to a whole room or house. Looks like a good bit more color going from the sample swatch to the board. I can't imagine it would turn green. Looks good with terra cotta flooring as its an earthier yellow.

    This post was edited by snookums2 on Wed, Nov 6, 13 at 23:28

  • anele_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Funcolors, thanks for chiming in! I understand that there is a system in place (based on fact), but I mean that the information would be readily available to the everyday consumer. Do you think the average consumer would not benefit from the info (that exists) because it would be too complicated? Where do we physically find the info, say, for fabric?

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is readily available to the everyday consumer.

    Every bolt of fabric has a colorway. The information in the colorway is nothing less than magical.

    It's no more or less complicated than anything else to understand. I will say that formal order systems are global and different languages is not an obstacle.

    Language, words, special terminology not required which speaks to the simplicity and efficiency of the order systems.

  • anele_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Funcolors, it would be so helpful if websites would include that info-- but since I shop discount sites like Fabric Guru, it is unlikely that it would be profitable to spend the extra time uploading it. I guess I could look elsewhere, though, as long as I know the brand/fabric name.

    Re: the colorway, are you referring to the colors on the side of the fabric or is this info communicated some other way? As you can see, this is all very new to me. I appreciate the information!

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes. The colorway is found on the selvage (or selvedge) I've seen it spelled both ways.

    Colors can be dots, squares or triangles. The colorway deconstructs the color from the pattern so you can see exactly what colors are used - even the "white" space of the selvage will show you the background color of the textile. i.e. the background is a color of white and you can see it separated from the pattern.

    And, yeah, there are a lot of things ecommerce merchants could do to improve the color situation.

    But, just like many people who work in the paint stores, fabric retailers, etc. they have no idea that their product is already tied to - or can easily be correlated - to a perceptually based color system.

    This post was edited by funcolors on Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 9:08

  • anele_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ah, yes-- I do know about that, found on the selvedge (I've also seen both spellings . . .never know which one to use).

    I guess that would still not help the situation of shopping online, however, because of the monitor issue. I was wondering if there was something more like a name/numbering system actually listed on fabric bolts, which could be communicated without even seeing a sample.

    Thanks so much for your help . . .I need to research this topic more, clearly!

  • Vertise
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Trained color experts are trained on the century old system -- which is why we can navigate color any time, anywhere with anybody. i.e. pictures aren't necessary, swatches are secondary not primary because we function by color notations. "

    What does this mean? Are you saying that they work off of color codes in charts like Munsell, without needing samples or the product itself? You look at an online image of a drapery fabric, get the color codes, see if it works with the paint color code or sofa fabric?

    Where do people find all these color codes for a product?

    Wouldn't working with standardized but reproduced color chart representations run into the same obstacles as monitors, printers, dye lot variations ...? Those paint chips (certainly calibrated) vary from the brochure to the strip to the can of paint. Even the handpainted swatches. When undertones or gray factor vary between each representation or the product, it's not even close to a color match. Pick from a fabric sample bolt, you can receive a totally different undertone than that dye lot. That is, products shifting from a warm white background to a taupey pink one or from neutral to a yellow cast.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love you guys because you're smart. Excellent questions, easy to answer but they're long answers. I'll try to keep it short yet complete as possible.

    Are you saying that they work off of color codes in charts like Munsell, without needing samples or the product itself?

    Yes. If it has a notation, from whatever color management system, you may or may not need to see a swatch. Depends on how much you know and trust the color management system. My POV and standard mantra is "you cannot color by numbers alone". There are those in the color management loop that strongly disagree with me.

    It is also my POV that as much as you cannot color by numbers alone, you also cannot color purely by perceptual (visual), uncontrolled color assessment.

    The qualified standards, the numbers, and the eyeballs are all equally important. This is the ideal trifecta. Ideally you have all three to work with. Ideally doesn't always happen so there are color strategies to deal with a missing link. . . or two. (and that's a really big discussion)

    Where do people find all these color codes for a product?

    Paint is usually easy, look in the fandeck first to see how they've implemented their color system.

    If it doesn't have a notation, understanding that everything is ordered by hue family is the first step to figuring it out for yourself. Once you categorize it by hue family, everything else falls into place - or in other words at that point you start making color relationship, color scheme decisions about how everything will fall into place.

    Wouldn't working with standardized but reproduced color chart representations run into the same obstacles as monitors, printers, dye lot variations ...? Those paint chips (certainly calibrated) vary from the brochure to the strip to the can of paint

    Charts are the byproduct of standards and notations. Standards and notations are the drivers of the color pipeline with hue families at the starting line.

    When you have a paint color notation, the chips and brochures don't matter. If you have the notation, you can look at the chip or sample and know whether it's wrong or not. If you have the notation, you can visually assess the color and sync any display or monitor color to that notation.

    ICI/Dulux's color system is a good example. They developed their custom notation system because they are a global color company. Color chips don't criss-cross the globe, but color notations do. Wordy, subjective descriptors don't criss-cross the globe, but color notations do.

    If there are color standards with management system in place for a product, what happens at the end of the color pipeline will either be a good match to the standards or it won't. Some manufacturers are better at color management and controls than others.

    Like I already mentioned, there is a lot of opportunity for ecommerce merchants to improve their color pipelines. And, again, it is my POV that you cannot color by numbers alone. But they do indeed narrow the color gap. Which at this point for online merchants, it isn't just a gap, it's more like a color chasm.

    As a consumer, all the color quality management crap isn't our problem nor within our control. So, we back it up to the start of the color pipeline which is hue families. It's at this juncture we can garner some control and implement a logical process to use whatever notations are available in tandem with making our own visual color assessments.

  • Vertise
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is so interesting. I did not know that you worked so much from numbers, though I know they exist. There is a lot of advantage, efficiency and simplicity to that.

    "It is also my POV that as much as you cannot color by numbers alone, you also cannot color purely by perceptual (visual), uncontrolled color assessment. "

    Totally agree with your POV. Color is very elusive.

    I'll have to explore the notations and mathematical gradations of colors on the charts to see if it helps me to navigate and simplify the search. You see all these things but don't really know how to use them.

    Thanks Funcolors!!

  • Vertise
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Scarlett, if you check out Gingerroot, I notice BM Hilton Head Cream looks to be a similar yellow-orange color but maybe more muted.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Scarlett, sorry about the off topic diversion. We do that every now and then around here. (I'm probably the most guilty of all)

    Snooks, yes, many do not understand how integral math is to color. I had that epiphany about 20 years ago when I got my first graphic design job and I just about peed my pants -- I was so in over my head, not even funny.

    Color math is a gajillion times more crucial now than ever because digital color is so pervasive. Never, ever did you have to consider digital aspects to the degree that you do now. Used to be rather separate - you had digital color over here somewhere and analog color other there and the two only ever met at the output end of a closed professional workflow loop.

    That's all changed. The loop isn't necessarily closed - or maybe it's better to say every consumer of color now has their own color loop to work with. Every step in the color pipeline has to be precise. Precision can only come from measurements - either controlled perceptual or device.

    Hard core color sh1t has officially hit the fan and we're all down wind taboot.

    As a result, I see very good things coming for the consumer. Exactly what anele was talking about as far as systems completing the color loop across products and industries - it's coming.

    Which is why it's imperative we embrace color families and the order systems that stem from spectral order.

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No worries about the topic diversion.

    I might actually have narrowed the paint colours down to 2 choices. Beachcrest Sand by BM or Cottage Yellow by Eddie Bauer. Both have no green undertones - Cottage Yellow is a kind of apricot colour and Beachcrest Sand is a pale kind of peach/apricot. I painted a bunch of huge test patches tonight, so anxious to see how they hold up in morning light. :)

  • Vertise
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Appreciate your passion. Thanks again.

  • dragon_fly
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am looking forward to hearing how Breachcrest Sand and Cottage Yellow work. I too have wood trim and thinking about repainting in the future. I prefer warmer tones and know how hard it is to get the perfect color!

  • hlove
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have BM Fine China in our north-facing kitchen and I absolutely love it. It reads as a french vanilla color...no greenish hue at all. Based on the paint strip, it appears to be in the orange family. Here's a pic, fwiw (cabinets are BM Hawthorne yellow, for reference):

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That BM Fine China is very pretty. A bit lighter than what I think that I want, but it is lovely. And I love your kitchen - so bright and airy.

    And I do think that I have a winner - Cottage Yellow - Eddie Bauer/Valspar. It changes from warm creamy yellow to apricot to slight pink undertones (kind of peachy) depending on the lighting and time of day. It might read super apricot in other people's houses, but in my house it reads as a yellowish-apricot colour which is what I want.

    I may go buy a test can and test a larger area of wall (so far, I've done large parts of various walls, but not a huge area). Then I have to decide whether to go with Valspar paints or attempt a colour match by BM (I prefer to use their Aura paint).

  • Scarlett001
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Painters are coming on December 1/2 so I have been busy as a bee painting some sections of walls in my house. And I HAVE found the colour!!

    Funny enough, it is a colour that is not a real colour - somehow the computer at Lowe's spit out some unknown colour (a mistake!!) when it was making a test pot of Eddie Bauer Valspar Cottage Yellow (turned out much lighter than Cottage Yellow and slightly different colour tones). But I loved the sample pot, so we mixed a quart of the "mistake" colour to test on walls and it is perfect!!

    Depending on the time of day, this colour can be creamy yellow, creamy apricot, even can have a hint of pink that looks good with kitchen tiles, and at night it can range from yellow to apricot - but it does not go intense vivid orange like the other darker apricots that I tested.

    It has only taken about 50 sample cans of paint to find this colour!! Ridiculous!! But my house really made yellow paints turn green in certain lights, and I had to go much more orange/pink than at first I ever would have thought was necessary. Steep learning curve for me!!

    This *not* my house below (wish that it was), but I'd say the colour looks similar to this photograph.

  • Kooowal
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very nice kitchen. I like that it is spacious. Pretty impressive. Once I had such a large one ones, but I moved to the city to a flat.

    Here is a link that might be useful: czyszczenie dywanów wrocław

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