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Stained cabinets - how shiny? & water or oil top coat

User
9 years ago

I just want to start working on the cabinets, but I can't make up my mind what topcoat. I'll be staining oak cabinets with GF Brown Mahogany gel stain. This is the color.
Tntw
{{!gwi}}

How shiny should stained cabinets be? Satin or Semi? I was pretty sure I wanted Satin.

Saw many reviews saying the Gel topcoat in Satin was way too shiny. Emailed GF and she told me of the three topcoat choices I had (talking about satin), that High Performance had the least sheen.

My other option for over gel stain is Arm-R-Seal. Don't know how shiny the satin is.

ARM-R-SEAL
oil based, ambers over time, mineral spirit clean up
Saw this under FAQ - note 'frequently'
Q. I'm experiencing whitish streaks in the finish when using Arm-R-Seal (Satin)...what can I do?
A. We call them friction streaks and they occur when you press your applicator too hard when leveling the finish. Sand the surface and apply another medium to heavy coat. Spread out the Arm-R-Seal across the entire surface and lightly level our (not wipe off) the finish in the di-rection of the grain."

Well that was a turn off and makes me think of my miserable stair project.

HIGH PERFORMANCE
water based, fast dry time, easy clean up

Both have high ratings. Both are recommended for kitchen cabinets. I'll be brushing or wiping which is also fine for either.

This is the first DIY project I've felt intimidated by. It's go time and I'm look at the mass of cabinets, realizing I need to do both sides, and be patient to allow dry time. I'm pretty determined not to mess this up.

I'm leaning towards the water based High Performance for obvious reasons. Doors will be done in a 12x13 room. One window. I do have a respirator, but it's annoying to wear. I remember staining the island with Minwax oil based stain in a larger area and I had to leave for a few hours because the fumes were bothering me that much. I'm just wondering if the cabinets will lack in richness if I use the water based over oil and if I want the cabinets to amber over time.

It was noted in a GF video I watched about choosing top coats that on the maple cabinet they used the HP water base finish, it did still amber over time, but it was because that's what maple does, not the top coat. Will oak do this too? Cabinets are red oak.

I'm going to call GF Monday, but wanted your opinions. Thanks!

Ha, just wait until we install hardwood.

Comments (10)

  • arcy_gw
    9 years ago

    It is all about personal preference. My husband refaced my cabinet doors a few years ago. The bases need freshening but that is A LOT of work. I spent last summer sanding/staining and polying them. We found the gel stain was a bust--not the product to use when you want a horrendous job done well and right the first time. I had it in my head I wanted the poly finish to be shiny. The door fronts do not leave much base cabinet showing so I knew it would not be overwhelming when finished. (The veneer he used on the door fonts is a rather sleek Italian wavy maple.) I LOVE IT!! Now I look at the door frames into the kitchen and the baseboards and I think YOU'RE NEXT!! I think the shiny gives my circa 1970s kitchen a much more modern look and feel. At my youngest's grad. party this past spring I received many compliments. No one was sure what had changed but they loved it!

  • lam702
    9 years ago

    Depends on what you like. We stripped and refinished our kitchen cabinets in our first house, but we were much younger then, came out beautifully but a ton of work. We chose a satin finish, not GF so I can't say how shiny it is. The higher the gloss, the more you will notice the little drips and runs though, so apply very carefully.

  • User
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Arcy what brand of gel stain did you use? That's what I've heard about every brand but GF.

  • DLM2000-GW
    9 years ago

    With a stain that dark, ambering is not going to be an issue for you but I would not use an oil based product regardless. Brain cells are too important! My personal preference is minimal sheen so I use matte finish top coat or low luster. As mentioned, the names and sheen will vary among manufacturers. With any of them there are certain things to remember - never shake the can, do not stir vigorously so as to create bubbles but DO continually stir gently as you are working. the solids settle out very quickly with low luster products especially and what you are left with on top is going to dry improperly and give you inconsistent sheen levels. This is a big project and needs to be approached with the long term goal in mind regardless of the time it takes which will be longer than you think - it always is. When you get tired of it and try to rush it, you'll see the result of that in the finished product. This is hard for me because if you were a friend of mine here in flesh and blood I'd do anything to talk you out of it. Of course it can be done and many people show their beautiful results but for every one of those there's probably 2 people who got part way into it and wondered why in the heck they ever started. But I'm going to be a cheerleader and say go Shee go! - you can do this, take your time and don't ever work on it when you're tired.

  • User
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hpny, good point about higher gloss showing imperfections.

    Dlm, "This is hard for me because if you were a friend of mine here in flesh and blood I'd do anything to talk you out of it."
    :) Because you think I'll regret it later? You helped talked me out of painting years ago when I kept trying to convince myself it was the way to go. (Thank you for that, btw.) I'm very glad I never painted them for a number of reasons. I've decided to leave the island stained for now so I'll get to practice on that first. (I'm going to replace the base on the bottom.) I've thought a long time about this. My counters and floors are fine, but I don't like them with the cabinets. The day we replace anything will be the day we remodel the kitchen - many years from now. We're planning to expand the family in the near future so I'm really wanted to get this wrapped up, but I'm not going to slop through it. I can't. I spent a majority of my time in here so it's important to me. I believe I can do a good job with this, but it's 'definitely' going to test my patience.

  • RocksAndRoses
    9 years ago

    Your cabinets look very nice. I think they would look nice with a bit more sheen. How long did it take for each coat of the gel stain to dry?

    I am a novice refinisher.

    I am using a similar color oil based nongel stain-- Old Masters Rich Mahogany wiping stain.I asked the manager at the Benjamin Moore store about protective finishes. He recommended either a satin polyurethane or a matte acrylic. The satin is traditional, matte more modern according to him. An advantage of the acrylic, at least the BM one according to the manager, was that it is clear and doesn't yellow.

    A neighbor gave me a new container of Minwax wiping poly in semi-gloss. Although I have not been a fan of the minwax products I have tried, I read and heard good things about the wiping poly. It is super easy to use (wipe on and off like a wiping or gel stain). I am thrilled with results after several coats on my test piece. I sanded with 0000 steel wool in between the coats. (I read that you can do this to make any poly less shiny if you want). It looks like fine furniture not saran wrap.

    My biggest problem was dust and dog hair landing on the drying poly. You also need really good light to see the surface with a dark stain.

  • User
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Rockandroses - That's actually not my kitchen. That poster used the same stain and color I'm planning to use. Her cabinets were also a light oak to start. She waited 24 hours between coats. Here was her updated post.

    I am a little concerned about dust and cat hair with the poly.

    Here is a link that might be useful: gel stain post

  • RocksAndRoses
    9 years ago

    Sorry, I misunderstood. I have been reading so many posts in the kitchen and woodworking forums lately.

    Have you asked at your local better paint stores? I am really glad that I went to the Benjamin Moore store before mail ordering General Finishes gel stain. I tried both gel and wiping stains from BM and really love the wiping stain.

    You have to strip the piece before using a wiping stain. Some people just sand their cabinets before using the gel stain. That could be a time saver.

    I have a choice of bugs and acorns outside or dog hair inside. I can't believe that my little pug can shed so much! I was gathering up laundry while my poly was drying nearby. That didn't help. I also didn't have bright enough light to see the surface. I moved a floor lamp and the clip on lights from my attic to the "finishing" area. It helped.

  • DLM2000-GW
    9 years ago

    If you lived here I would try and talk you out of it because....
    I know how much work is involved
    When I have huge projects to do it's all consuming
    An all consuming project when you have a toddler is challenging x a bazillion
    I don't let my friends tackle big projects alone - and they rarely want to even if they only want a body in the room with them so they're not alone
    So then I would have big project to do
    With my own projects I've learned -finally- to say it's good enough and mean it when something isn't perfect
    But on a friend's project my perfectionist/ocd-ness goes into overdrive - I hate to disappoint and I'll be the one losing sleep over something not quite perfect, not my friend

    Which leads me back to being a cheerleader. This is something you've thought a lot about and have a vision in your head of where you're going and what you want it to look like on the other side. And I TOTALLY understand what it means to be in a kitchen that you're happy to be in - you start and end every day there, it is the heart of the home whether that sounds corny or not. I say go for it because if you don't, there will always be a nagging disappointment with the space until you make it your own.

  • User
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Rocksandroses - Some people completely strip the cabinets for gel stain, but you can clean them properly and lightly scuff sand them. I'll start off with sanding and see if I like the look.

    Thanks for the info. about the wiping stains!

    Oh yes, I'm always fighting the bugs outdoors for paint projects!

    Dlm - I'm trying to figure out the most practical way to break this into sections. I have to face that I'm just not going to get an entire coat on everything in one day. That's a hard one. I suppose I'll have some time to thoroughly clean out my cabinets during this process.
    "But on a friend's project my perfectionist/ocd-ness goes into overdrive "
    I do this too. In my case I usually find that the person doesn't care if it's not perfect which somewhat baffles me! I once helped paint kitchen cabinets with two very non perfectionist people. Oh my.

    Lots of cheering is welcome!

    Thanks everyone! I'll post updates eventually.

    I'm going with the water based High Performance.

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