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Posted by aklvdb
Sun, Aug 24, 14 at 20:14
|UPDATE at bottom of thread with 1 question..... |
We've been doing our house reno, and decided to get new bedroom furniture, upgrade from the circa 1996 honey oak I've had since I was 20.
Looked everywhere, high end, low end, wanted quality and didn't mind paying for it.
Ordered some furniture from a reputable company. Have been oohing and ahhing over their stuff for years.
We paid for it. It came. It's made horribly. The paint is streaky, the drawers are rough, there are unfinished visible parts, it is awful. At a distance it's ok. Close up, I wouldn't pay 1/2 of what I paid. I am so disappointed.
I told the owner last week that I don't want this in my house (after he scratched and chipped my brand new hardwood floors moving it in) and that I want my $$ back. I told him I would have been better off buying IKEA at 1/8 the price.
My DH is also upset, and he's such a laid back guy. He's like, "We shouldn't have paid for it without looking at it."
In the grand scheme of things, everyone is healthy, we're happy, we have jobs, etc. But I am just so done with this, all I wanted to do was put my clothes in the dresser, and I started bawling. So silly.
This post was edited by aklvdb on Wed, Sep 10, 14 at 21:38
|Stand firm and get your money back and the badly made furniture out of the house. Your husband is right; look closely at what you're buying.|
|So sorry to hear of your bad experience. You will need to be tough but there is no way you should have to live with horribly made furniture. If the store owner won't budge contact the BBB.|
|After you talk to the owner, I suggest you also contact the manufacturer and let them how disappointed you are, they may call the store owner on your behalf, so that you get a full refund - otherwise you may have a restock fee|
|Sorry to hear about this. The BBB is a pretty worthless organization though. |
|Hmmm, I agree with your DH. We would never buy furniture without seeing it. I hope you get a return and refund. And I suspect your definition of reputable company is changed.|
|One time I bought furniture from a reputable dealer's catalog. It was so different once it arrived, although the quality was fine. Since then I have never bought any furniture that I could not see or try beforehand. I am so sorry that you are disappointed. I agree that you must stick to your guns and get your money back.|
|If it is a reputable company they should allow you to return the furniture for whatever reason.|
|Ugh, I thought I responded to everyone, but my post isn't here. Thank you all for the posts. I appreciate it and it helps me see that I'm not completely wrong or being silly.|
|Can you give a little hint like the first three letters as to who the company is? |
I'm having a fit over my new sofa's but am waiting to see if they are willing to make it right. If not I will post here to save others the problems. We can't let company's get away with it even if all we can do is slow business by warning others.
So sorry you going through this.
|You are neither wrong and certainly NOT even a bit silly to be upset -- I would be steaming mad ....... |
...... Take photos of every detail. Take photos of ALL paperwork -- back and front. Contact the owner AND the manufacturer. Send photos of everything -- including the damage in your home. Keep copies of every single time that you have phoned, called, texted or emailed. Ask for names during every single talk.
Can you stop payment?
|If you paid with a credit card, you may have some leverage to get a refund, if you dispute the transaction.|
|I'm so sorry and hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction. If you post your general location, perhaps we can suggest some places to shop for a new set/suite.|
|Don't feel bad about being upset! Try to find the strength to pursue it because of course they want you to cave and give up. I would say that most everyone here has gone through something like this, whether with a contractor or purchase. You're not alone and you came to the right place for advice!|
|Agree with Don, that the BBB is useless. |
Only place that might have some teeth here for you is your state's attorney general's office, the department of consumer affairs. A lot of states have what is called an 'implied warranty", meaning, the product you get should reflect what you paid for it. Also, many states have a law where you have three days (or whatever) to break a contract, i.e.: return a product.
First thing I'd do is calmly call the AG's office and ask them if you have any legal recourse. If they say yes, in any way, then contact the furniture retailer and let him know you have spoken with the AG's office and that, while you prefer to not drag him and yourself through a nasty legal battle, you will pursue it unless he gives you your money back and removes the furniture.
That said, aside from items that require cleanliness, i.e.: mattresses and sofas, your best bet now is to buy antique or vintage furniture and have it restored/reupholstered, whatever. Stuff is made like garbage now. Companies have so cheapened their products ,but kept the prices high, in this pathological quest now for every ^*(&*(ing dime of profit. Business ethics are down the tube now. When I was furnishing my house, the only battles I had were with retailers, i.e.: when I bought retail versus via eBay or Craigslist (although, there are a lot of scumbags on CL).
Find either a craftsman who makes furniture, or get used stuff. Stay away from retailers. EVen my Hickory Chair sofa, for which I paid dearlyâ€¦the frame is fantastic, but the cushion totally sucks, and I had to fortify it like crazy to get it to where I wanted it to be. But for what I paid for it, I would have been better off restoring an antique sofa.
|I would call the shop and discuss it with them. Did you put it on Visa? You can open a dispute with them. Believe it or not, it works. I have used it once before. It was for an expensive desk. When I received it, it was pieced together horribly and spray painted with car spray paint. An antique dealer looked at it and kindly wrote a letter attesting to its condition and inauthenticity. Visa then refunded the money.|
|Yes! Disputing via your credit card is often successful. That's good advice.|
|So you're saying they won't take it back and give you a refund? You're not clear on that at all. |
I can totally understand your being upset about such poor quality furniture and the fact they scratch and chipped your new floor, but you didn't say anything about whether or not you'll be able to return it. At least not that I understood.
|I completely agree with everyone that you should insist on returning the furniture for a full refund. However, people are misstating what Visa can/will do for you. Visa doesn't refund any money. When you open a dispute, they ask if you're contacted the company with your complaint. Assuming you have and haven't gotten satisfaction, they temporarily credit your account, and then they run interference for you. However, if the store/mfr still refuse (insisting there's nothing wrong with what they delivered, refusing to take it back, etc.), then there is nothing Visa can do about. No matter what, the dispute is still between you and the company, not you and Visa. Visa is simply a go-between with more clout.|
|Thanks for all the great advice and commiseration. The company was not keen to take it back at all, so I expect a fight. I spoke with them Wenesday, today is Monday but I'm at work and I don't know if I feel like dealing with this at work. I'll see how I feel at lunch time. |
I'm in Canada, this was supposed to be craftsman furniture, not from a big box retailer. Most of my wood is used, teak or hand made, so I was expecting so much more.
|Take a lot of pictures! Use them to get the manufacturer involved in the dispute. Threatening to put pictures of the low quality of the furniture online and giving reviews of their products on review sites to warn other possible customers of the problems is a good idea too. And I would urge you to actually do reviews, it might have persuaded you to avoid them. I really read real customer reviews and level of satisfaction. |
I was also going to mention the credit card companies involvement if purchased that way.
The scratched floor is a different situation entirely and should be handled with the individual that arranged for the furniture transportation and installation. And they would most definitely be doing something about it in my house!
Stand firm and get your husband to stand firm also.
|Sjhockeyfan, I respectfully disagree. I filed a dispute with Visa for a very large purchase that went awry. After multiple failed attempts to solve the problem with both the manufacturer and the store where I purchased the item, Visa credited my account for the entire amount and eventually the credit was made permanent. As soon as I realized I had a problem, I began documenting every detail along the way ... every phone call, every email, every response, every non-response, dates, times, etc. Visa succeeded where I failed, so their dispute process can and does work, maybe not in every case, but certainly in some.|
|jellytoast, I completely agree with you. You've actually described a real-life example of the legal process I described in words. The fact is, you didn't get anywhere with the mfr and store, so Visa interceded on your behalf, and 'won', or as you said "succeeded where I failed". They don't always win, and their "rights" are not independent of yours. If the mfr and store still refused the refund, Visa would have had to debit your account - no choice.|
|I have had good luck with American Express refunding $ in a dispute as a credit. Not sure what the laws in Canada are, or if this benefit is available from credit cards there. But the advice to document everything is really important, whichever route you take. |
If it were me and there was no satisfaction and no other recourse, I would sue in small claims court (the Canadian equivalent) to try to get my money refunded. It might be a hassle to try to get satisfaction, but if you don't you'll be disgusted with the furniture every day until you replace it and someday may wish you'd put up a fight, but it will be too late.
|What is the name of the company?|
|Good luck in getting your money back. I wouldn't waste any more time before you get this settled.|
|I agree, the credit card company will definitely give you leverage and back you up. No reason that you should have to keep that furniture. Some companies will try to intimidate you to back down from requiring a return, so get the credit card company involved and they will jump in there with you and you won't feel you are alone trying to fight it. I also agree with documentation. It is essential. Keep a journal of every time you speak with someone, what date and time, their name, the basic conversation. Make sure if they say they will do something, that you record whether they do or not. Take photos of the furniture where you have complaints and write your explanation of why you are dissatisfied.|
|Well if you paid for craftsman furniture and got less than that then I think it's worth a fight. It's not surprising that "The company was not keen to take it back at all", and I do wonder about the order and delivery receipt and what if anything it says in case of damage, dissatisfaction, etc. |
I will also suggest that hand made often comes with some artisan influence so it may be considered a custom order and in my neck of the world these are difficult to dispute and return (again, look at your contract and receipt).
Good luck, I hope you are able to get this resolved.
|sjhockeyfan, I was under the impression that when a store accepts Visa or MC, they agree to abide by the CC's terms, including the dispute process. Is that incorrect? |
In the incident I spoke of, I don't know how the store responded to Visa, but they are a very large business and chances are they didn't fight the dispute. But I did have one other instance many years ago of using the dispute process where I was also issued a permanent credit against the wishes of the supplier. This was an incident where the goods were "custom made" but were also "guaranteed to fit." When they didn't fit and the construction was shoddy, the supplier claimed they couldn't be returned because they were custom made and therefore not returnable. Again, I documented everything, including photographs, and followed Visa's guidelines on how to deal with the supplier.
That purchase, while not nearly as large as the one I spoke of earlier, still involved a significant amount of money. I would not advise using the CC dispute process for any little purchase that goes wrong. It's a "pick your battles" kind of thing ... you want it to be available for you should you really need it for something important. You want the CC company to be on your side, not plug you as a customer who files frivolous complaints for minor things. But for significant purchases with significant price tags, I believe that using a CC is very beneficial.
OP, you can do a google search on the CC dispute process and see if any of the scenarios for disputes describe your circumstances. Goods need to be as advertised, and if they aren't and the supplier is uncooperative, you can use the dispute process.
|Hard as it is to do, I have to correct myself :-) I checked with someone I know in the industry, and it is correct to say that Visa is not only the interceder, but also the "judge and jury", meaning they have an internal arbitration process to which the vendor is required to submit, so they can side with the customer and credit the account even if the merchant does not agree. (If the merchant feels strongly enough about it, and if enough money is involved, they can sue the customer). Sorry for the misinformation. To the OP, I would definitely follow this process and be sure to put your claim/dispute in writing.|
|Here is some Canadian specific info about disputing a credit card charge.|
Here is a link that might be useful: Canadian specific info.
|Thank you so much. I did call yesterday but there was no answer. I think I might have swayed a friend from buying from the same place though with my story! |
Ok, I called and the owner will call me tomorrow about just taking it back. I can get it refinished, but I have no confidence anymore in them. (and it'll be MIA for 2 months!)
This post was edited by aklvdb on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 18:21
|Please let us know how it works out.|
|I spoke with the owner today. He said he would take it back with a 25% restocking fee. I said no way (that would be $875!) I argued and he will call me back Friday or Sat. |
I understand I ordered it from a catalogue, but it's not custom, it's a dresser and 2 nightstands. I explained I'm not doing without for 2 months, nor do I have the confidence that it will be done right. It should have been done right the first time (ie, finishing, no dents, painted right, right wood, not rough, etc). I said I understand about a minimal restocking charge, but come on. He'll "think about it". Ugh!
|You have got to call your AG's office and get the law on this.|
|Look through his company's return policy in the catalog you ordered from. Are the terms spelled out clearly? Many places that I regularly order from online specify that they have a 25% restocking fee, but that normally applies to items returned for reasons other than that they are defective. That likely does not apply to your case as your furniture has quality and construction issues. |
As far as using your CC's dispute process, you are doing what they will require you to do ... trying to first resolve the issue with the store directly. I would write a letter now to the person you spoke with on the phone and email it to him so that he has it in front of him while he "thinks about it." Reiterate what you told him on the phone and that you want to return the items. Be specific about what is wrong with the items.
Your CC company will want you to forward all of this stuff to them in the event that the store doesn't agree to refund your money. They will want you to specify to the store that the items are available to be returned or picked up.
Even if you have paid for these items in full on your CC, they should still be able to help you. But if you haven't paid for them, don't! Instead, call the CC company now and tell them you are having issues and wish to withhold payment. I found them to be extremely helpful.
|There isn't anything I saw in the catalogue, I just looked online and I couldn't see anything. |
So I shouldn't have a restocking fee if it's poor quality? I don't have a state, I'm in Canada! I'll google to see what's going on in this province!
Thanks! And I did foolishly pay them. I brought that up to the owner, as I had no qualms paying as I was confident that the furniture would be as quality made as in their showroom.
|The product was defective, there should be absolutely no restocking fee on your purchase. You are taking the right steps. Keep documenting but call the cc company pronto.|
|Ok, I've documented everything and I have a call out to the Consumer Protection branch. |
I will call the cc company now and see what they have to say. Thanks for all the advice!
Ok, called the cc company. Explained everything and that I'm trying to resolve this at the store level, but if I don't have success they said I could totally dispute it with their protection branch (based on what I explained to them regarding quality).
This post was edited by aklvdb on Wed, Aug 27, 14 at 15:47
|I was confident that the furniture would be as quality made as in their showroom. |
So you did see it in the showroom, and what you got was noticeably inferior? If so, you have a case. If you bought off of pictures on the internet, it might be harder to prove your case (not impossible just harder, because lots of stuff isn't top notch, and the argument will be you got what you paid for).
I completely agree that there should be no restocking fee if its being returned because its defective/inferior quality. Restocking fees are for when you decide you don't want something. What if you bought a computer and the hard drive was dead on arrival?
|You have gotten great advice on how to dispute your purchase. I just want to say I understand how disappointed you are and that I would be disappointed too. Hope it all works out for you.|
|sjhockeyfan-I didn't see the exact product in the showroom, but I saw another bedroom set made by the same company. And in the showroom they have all different brands, but all Am.is.h and "furniture for the generations!" quality. |
Thank you everyone, I'll keep you posted as I learn more.
This post was edited by aklvdb on Wed, Aug 27, 14 at 16:37
|I'd love to know whether you actually saw something by the same brand you ordered (the quality of other brands not being relevant here)?|
|Hopefully you paid with a major credit card. They will reverse the charges...|
|Yes sjhockeyfan-we saw another set from the same company we were contemplating on.|
|We have a furniture store here that sells gorgeous handmade Amish furniture, but like the store you shopped at, doesn't display every single thing they make, so I can definitely see why you'd order something based on the quality of other things made by the same company. What a drag. Start documenting things now ... conversations, dates, times, etc., just in case. Hopefully the owner will do the right thing and it won't come to that.|
|WHAT does your delivery receipt say? Also, I can't help but have some confusion. You talk about a show room, but placed the order through a catalog, and are dealing with the "owner". The owner of what? The showroom?? Is the maker of your order local??? |
Face to face is sometimes the easiest way to resolve a problem. A "poorly made" custom order being restocked is bad news all around and because you paid without qualms, and the order was a made to order I can totally understand the reasoning of the owner. I can't say it enough...LOOK AT YOUR ORDER CONTRACT / receipt. There must be something.
I am not in Canada but if I go to a showroom or store and make a purchase, and pay for it - a receipt is given and it has all kinds of information. AND when it is delivered, you must SIGN something on delivery and it also has information. Often the delivery receipt says - Please contact the store where you purchased your furniture...blah blah blah.
Everyone seems to think that your credit card company will resolve this and they will certainly put a "dispute" record on that charge but you will need to return the goods to get any credit at all. Good Luck.
|"Everyone seems to think that your credit card company will resolve this ... " |
I think we are suggesting it as somewhat of a safety net ... something to fall back on should negotiations fail to return the items to the store. The CC companies do require customers to attempt to resolve the issue directly with the supplier first before they will get involved.
" ... but you will need to return the goods to get any credit at all."
Not true. You will, however, need to notify the company in writing that the goods are available to be picked up (if they were delivered to your home). A business refusing to accept a return will not prevent the CC companies from assisting the customer with a valid complaint.
There are pretty clear guidelines regarding instances in which CC companies can help. They offer it as a service to their customers, so it is worth looking into if you cannot resolve the problem on your own. It's not a guarantee, but they will investigate.
|sasafras, there is nothing on my receipt except the model #'s and the price and the invoice #. |
To clear up some confusion you might have... I am speaking with the owner of the showroom that showcases different brands of the Ami.sh furniture available. We picked a style out of a catalogue and ordered it. The maker is not local. We saw the same brand of furniture in the showroom and were satisfied with quality- hence, had no qualms about it. It arrives, we sign nothing and here we are.
Thank you again jellytoast! I am dealing with the owner of the showroom to try to come to a resolution. A small restocking fee I will pay. I'd rather not have it go to the cc, but will use it as a last resort.
|I'd rather not have it go to the cc, but will use it as a last resort. |
Just don't wait too long - there's a time limit on first notifying the CC company of the existence of a dispute.
|Where is this furniture right now? I hope it is wrapped and ready to go back and is not being used. The longer it sits in your possession the harder it will be to negotiate with the mfg...much less the owner. I can't get my head around the damage to your place upon delivery, the acceptance of horribly made product, and then no recourse in the order / receipt bit of the entire transaction. Something looks funny here...and I'm not sure it's the furniture. What did the Consumer Protection branch say??|
|sasafras, consumer protection said they really couldn't help me. If 25% restocking is their policy, it's their policy and unless they were saying something different that what was the policy, that would be where they could step in. |
I haven't actually seen this policy...The owner said he's call me today or tomorrow, I may go down there today to see this 'policy'.
And the furniture is not being used, it is ready to pick up but it's in the same place where they left it. I'll cover it up with some blankets. (it wasn't wrapped or anything).
|aklvdb, tell the owner when he calls if you have not had some arrangement satisfactory to you, you will post the complaint on the internet with the name of the business and the manufacturer. If this gentleman you are dealing with is a local owner, then resort to the manufacturer. Let them know that you will expose them on the internet via consumer complaints and the GardenWeb which is a very large networking site for homes/gardens. Tell them you do not want to have to resort to that, but your money is just as hard to come by as their advertising dollars and this is your form of advertising for them. |
Tibbrix, regarding calling her attorney general, she is in Canada.
|Canada doesn't have the equivalent of attorneys generals and consumer protection departments?|
|if there was a quality issue, I would be very upset to be told to pay a restocking fee--- restocking fees are for people who change their minds or don't like the particular items in their homes-- not for damaged or irregular items! I would ask the owner to make a trip out to my home to inspect the quality before I would pay any restocking fee! |
unless you purchased 'rustic' looking furniture and the store owner didn't have any of that type of furniture on display--- some furniture purposely is made to look like that, but that doesn't sound like what you thought you were getting. (like holes in jeans- some people pay for jeans with holes, but if they weren't supposed to have holes and that's what you got, by all means the store would need to take them back!!)
|Tribbix, I called the protection branch, they can't help me unless the owner is changing his mind on a policy, ie, restocking is 10%, he's quoting me 25%. |
We did not purchase rustic furniture (Esp with exposed nail holes :) ). Sigh. What a hassle. This is definitely a quality issue, maybe I'm being picky, but it was so $$ for us and we fell in love with it and now I just want it out of my house as I could get better at IKEA for 1/8th the price.
Thanks, I think I'll try to get by there today.
|Did I miss it? Who is this company?|
|"Did I miss it? Who is this company?" |
I don't think it has been disclosed yet. It might be in the OP's best interest to keep that information private while she is still attempting resolution from the business owner.
" ... restocking fees are for people who change their minds or don't like the particular items in their homes-- not for damaged or irregular items!"
Aklvbd, was there anything posted in the store while you were shopping regarding returns and re-stocking fees? Not sure how it works in Canada, but those policies should be clearly visible to shoppers at the time of purchase.
I'm curious as to why the store owner needs so much time to get back to you.
|Words and descriptions are important. You are NOT returning the furniture because of "quality" issues. You are returning it because it is DEFECTIVE. That one word negates the restocking fees in every furniture order I've ever signed. Defective. |
Typically you have to outline the dispute in writing to your CC company within 60 days (but check, as that may be different for different companies.) take pictures of the DEFECTS and include them with your letter of dispute. Include a call log of when and to whom you spoke. Do not say, "we did not receive the quality we expected," because then it is about your expectations. The furniture is defective. Period. And demonstrate that it is.
We had to do this once in our lives and were successful by keeping the letter simple, not a lot of he said, then we said, then the manager said, ad infinitum. You ordered, it was delivered, it is DEFECTIVE, you want the store to pick it up and your money refunded.
|I understand how you feel. I recently renovated a kitchen, and carefully specified everything so it would look good, maximize space, and be functional. The expensive granite countertops were cut incorrrectly, with an undermount sink cutout that was too small (and cut wobbly) making the sink look and feel small, the overhang catching pans and plates if you don't carefully remove them from the sink, the sink's chrome bead around the edge not showing at all, and there's a big gap to catch dirt making cleaning more difficult that wasn't supposed to be there at all. So I asked the countertop fabricator to remove and fix it so it would be cut to the specifications we agreed on and that were specified in the written contract. They wanted $300 to fix their own mistake. I told them I wasn't paying extra because they cut it wrong (the sink manufacturer gives the granite fabricators the exact dimensions too, which they had). So I get back an angry email from the CEO saying basically tough luck, don't complain about us, and we wouldn't fix it for you even if I did pay them. |
I wrote back mentioning in today's world, whatever it costs would probably be more than be paid back in all the positive recommendations I would have given to them in person and online had they fixed it, and people that read and responded to them would probably net them well more than the $300 he wanted to charge to fix my countertop. Instead, the negative reviews and warnings I post online and in person would probably cost them more than $300 in lost business - already, my contractor and those in his company have stopped using them for his kitchen and bath renovations. And that's when the company's owner PERSONALLY THREATENED ME if I wrote anything bad online that could be traced to me. I wouldn't put it past this guy to torch my house if I post my experiences online. These guys were nice and professional when I was shopping for granite countertops, and only turned nasty when something went wrong. Personality-wise, this guy is exactly like men who charm you when they're dating, than beat their wives during any argument after they're married.
ArteIye in Beltsville, MD btw. Do not go there.
|kswl has offered great advice. The shorter and more direct your letter the better. The rest is commentary.|
|Thank you to all! |
I did not disclose the company at this point. It's local as far as I know.
kswl-good point about it being defective. I probably wouldn't have thought of that, and am so appreciative of the advice.
lee676-what horror! Last year when we did our kitchen reno, the guy told me we were lucky that he did it as no other company would touch it as it's such a small job. Meanie. At least I wasn't worried he'd torch my house! What an ordeal, and I feel for you so much!
jellytoast-I did not see a sign, and it was definitely not disclosed. I wonder if the owner needs to get in touch with the company that manufactured the product.
|It's insane that so many business people don't get how important customer service is. I had a mechanic at an independent shop who repaired something for free that another mechanic had botched, and as a result I know at least 8 new customers they have from my personal recommendations, and that doesn't include anyone that those 8 have referred, or likely dozens that have read my online comments. I'm sure the profits from those customers far exceed whatever money he lost from the free parts and labor he gave me. It could have been the same for the granite countertop place, which is one of only a few independent countertop fabricators around here, but some people are chronically unable to see the big picture.|
|lee, I was distressed that you had been threatened more than this bozo losing business. I don't take threats lightly.|
|lee676, Intimidation such as you described is also illegal. Plus, you're able to write whatever you please in reviews online. That is the single purpose of online reviews. |
My ex-DH was a GC in MD. His family company started in the 50s. I can tell you the company you mentioned he often used as an example of what not to trust. There are a lot of reputable, concerned stone people out there.
If you have to have this repaired or recut, I highly recommend considering Granite Grannies in Upper Marlboro. (Actually, on the south side of Bowie.) Not only do they do beautiful work, they work with you. They've let me actually lay away stone I could never afford outright. I can't say enough good things about them. They might be able to recut your stone.
I also, strongly recommend contacting the MHIP commission and filing a serious complaint. You can actually get a settlement in your favor through them. It's in writing, on record, and they can't do a darned thing about it.
As with this OP, you must photo and document. Don't wait too long and document the time since installation.
Good luck to both of you.
|Plus, you're able to write whatever you please in reviews online. That is the single purpose of online reviews. |
If only that were true! There have been a number of lawsuits against online reviewers, and they haven't all been decided I favor of the poster.
|Link below on law suits and online reviews. |
'Since defamation must be based on a false statement in order for the writer to be held liable, lawyers advise writers of these reviews to stick to opinions and truths.'
Here is a link that might be useful: can you be sued for an online review
|Can we see pictures of the furniture and the defects?|
|Hope this works! |
And the imperfections do not come out well at all in pics
I don't know how to post multiple pics within my message!
Here is a link that might be useful: pics
|To post multiple pictures within a message from photobucket, copy the html link beside the picture, then paste here |
|Did the owner get back to you over the weekend as promised?|
|He did call on Saturday, but we were out of town, so I will call him today - and keep you posted.|
So I spoke with the owner, and I have new options.
1) Restocking fee reduced to 20% (I don't think so)
2) Keep it and I'll get 25% back (no)
3) Return it and get full store credit. (that's a lot of $ for store credit that I don't know what I'd get- won't order from a catalogue again)
I did counter with them taking the furniture back and getting the 60% I just paid them back, and keeping the 40% as store credit- though I don't know about this now that I'm thinking about it, I'd have to find something gorgeous in the showroom.
Or I was going to split the restocking down the middle to 10% just to get this over with.
Sigh. Thanks for listening to my ranting.
|Have you called your credit card company to dispute the purchase yet? I would do that before I did anything else!|
|If it is a local company or store, here in the US we take those kind of issues to our local NBC/ABC or CBS TV station, they air these kinds of issues on TV and boy do folks get action fast!! One segment is actually named "call to action"|
|The owner of that store is obligated to provide you with undamaged, properly finished items since that is what he has displayed in his store. That he provided otherwise and intends to charge you for his mistake is, well, unfortunate, to put it nicely. |
Not sure how I would handle it. I wouldn't be too hip to the idea of purchasing anything else from him, simply because I don't like the way he handled this situation. I would not agree to any 60/40 split unless I was right there in the showroom and found something on the spot that I could take home right then. You've already seen how he handles quality and damage problems, so why risk ordering anything? I might be tempted to go for a 10% return fee, as you say, "to get it over with." But it doesn't sound like he is being very cooperative so far and he hasn't agreed to that or even suggested it. The advantage to that is getting your money back right away and not having to wait for the dispute process to be completed.
|I still don't get who the owner is and who the manufacturer is. Is the owner a store and the only place where you can buy this furniture? Or is the owner also the manufacturer? |
Are there any reviews of this company online?
|nosoccermom- the owner is a store who sells many brands of Am.ish furnitrue. The manufacturer is a company int he US. No reviews that I could find onine. |
jelly toast-he did give me the option of sending it back and getting it refinished, but I'm just so tired and done with everything. but I agree.
bbstx- I have called the cc company, but have not done anything formally.
Aputernut-Agh! I wouldn't want the attention! but good suggestion, not sure how far I'm willing to take this.
I think I'll stop by after work and see if there's anything going on. Thanks!
|He is counting on you becoming "so tired and done with everything" and capitulating. |
Don't give into that mindset.
I wonder how much of the damage (you were right, some of the pictures I could not see the problem. Try taking pictures from a much lower angle to show surface imperfections) was from poor handling by the store owner, not flaws from the maker.
|DO NOT give in! No matter how disgusted and tired you are at this point; stick to your guns. Raee is right! He's hoping that you'll get sick of the whole thing and give in. State repeatedly what YOU want and how you want it and don't deviate from that or else he'll think he's getting over slowly. Tell him you need to get this done by such and such date or he'll drag it on for what it's worth. Be firm and you will win this thing. Good luck to you. And, I have learned something from this.|
|I'm glad you learned something surya55, and thanks to raee as well. |
So I stopped in after work. The owner seemed willing to negotiate something that would work. 10% restocking-no go at this point. He'll do a portion as store credit if I find something. I did find a beautiful kitchen set. $$ though.
I looked through the whole store, and did not find one piece of furniture of the quality I received, except maybe the rustic damaged marked down to less than 1/2 price little entry table, and as it was rustic, the damage looked intentional. With my furniture, you can see splinters from where it was sawed, dents (not natural wood characteristics).
I think we'll be able to come to some kind of resolution. If I got that kitchen table or something like it, I'd get the floor model at a discount (they make so much above cost I'm sure).
Seriously, he wants to make me happy (I'm so naive!) and not have me bad mouthing them. But he cannot just take it back. So he's only willing to give so much too.
|Why can he not just take it back? It's damaged, right?|
|It is damaged. Sigh. I want to be fair without getting into a big fight.|
|I can't believe he's fighting you on this. The product his supplier provided is GARBAGE, and it's hurting his reputation. He should be gladly taking it back, and having this argument with his supplier on your behalf. Not acting like his supplier is wonderful and that you're being a difficult customer. That's just causing further damage to his own reputation. You're no longer comfortable buying anything from him, because there's no guarantee anything he sells is worth the money. And if the supplier screws up, he's going to take their side.|
|I am a furniture vendor and any time an end user customer has a problem; they hardly ever take on the responsibility themselves. they ALWAYS call the vendor to get their credit and have merchandise picked up. |
a custom order complicates things but the vendor should be taking care of this either getting it fixed or taking it back.
|This is just not rightâ€¦.don't give in & don't take store credit!! Do you know any attorneys who would be willing to write a letter to him on your behalf. Not threateningâ€¦just factual, straight forward, but with no equivocating!!|
|If the finish on the furniture is the problem and the store is offering to send it back to have it refinished, they are offering to resolve the problem and, I think, should be given a chance to do that. Most warranties state that the manufacturer chooses whether to repair or replace.If they still don't get it right after a second try, they should take it back. |
Sometimes when a company is resolving complaints through discussion, I have had success by writing a letter. It seems like they sometimes don't take it seriously when it is talk. They think you will get tired and back down but when you take the effort to put it in writing they treat it more seriously.
So write it down being specific about the defects. Point out that a restocking fee should be for merchandise you return because you find you don't like it - e.g. it doesn't fit with your home. It shouldn't be on returning defective items.
|" I want to be fair without getting into a big fight." |
I understand that, but "fair" should not include _you_ taking a financial loss because the store owner has passed on defective furniture to you.
"Fair" is you paying for a quality product and receiving a quality product. "Fair" is the store being paid a fair price for a quality product, not making money from supplying defective products and then expecting customers to be out of pocket over them.
Since there's a time limit on sorting this out through the credit card company, I think you've been more than fair in negotiating over several days with the store owner, to no avail. Don't mess around with him any more, just file a formal complaint with your credit card provider.
|"Huneee," she drawled, hand on hip, waving her other index finger back and forth, in the air, under the store manager's nose. "Fair is a 4-letter 'F' word and don't you try using that on me when you're the one whose product is F!*$ed up." |
I don't see the point in being a door mat. Take the crap back and get your money. Don't pay them to get their defective crap out of your house. It's not your problem. The store guy has to work it out with the manufacturer, not you. They need to get it out now and/or you'll raise holy hell. Despite how laid back (I read 'passive') DH is, someone's gotta do it. Places to raise hell:
1) Credit Card
2) FTC online
3) Store reviews
4) Furniture manufacturer reviews
6) Decorating boards
7) Bridge club
8) a Sign in your Front yard
You get my point.
If you've not contacted your credit card (you did pay with a card, didn't you? I don't recall) quit stalling, trying to be [simper] nice. It's time to put your big girl pants on and get mad. You're being screwed, and being shy or coy about it isn't going to get you anywhere but Wishin'. That's Wishin' you'd done xxxx.
So if you don't put those panties on, don't come upset because it cost you money and you have no furniture.
It's Wednesday. You've still got 2 business days to get that out of your house. Then you can decide how, when and where you will put your money for furniture.
|aklvdb, they do not put you on TV, they investigate the store/company and bring the problem you are having with them to air on TV, in other words they are put them in the spotlight not you.|
|I wonder if you could talk to the manufacturer. If it's not custom made, they may take it back, even though the vendor should handle this for you. |
Now I'm not sure what's reasonable to let people do it right. Two months waiting seems excessive.
|CEFreeman said what I've been wanting to say, right down to the "put your big girl panties on!" I am going to talk to you as I would my own sister, so please forgive me if I sound uncivil, but it is time for you to stop whining about this problem, stiffen your spine, and get it resolved - in your favor! No, it won't be pleasant. No, it won't be fun. But, you are not inviting these people to dinner. |
Give them ONE chance to get it right. Let them know you will thoroughly inspect it BEFORE it comes back into your house. And that it will be rejected, if it is still defective.
|1) get GOOD pictures of all the defects |
2) write a detailed letter listing every defect and summarizing every contact you have had with him about the problem, with dates. Emphasize the first contact being immediately upon receipt of the furniture. Clearly state again that you expect a refund for poorly made, damaged product.
3) Have you given up on the floor damage, or have decided to drop it? How badly do you need him to fix that too? Include this, reminding him that you notified him of this issue as well (on what date)
4) Demand the name and contact information for the manufacturer
5) Point out that you have already been more than fair, having already paid in full, and having giving him time to resolve the matter. Demand that you be given, in writing, a guarantee that all defects will be remedied, SPELLED OUT, including unfinished edges, dents, etc. -- if you allow him to send it to be refinished (if you consider that to be a fair resolution), demand a date that the product is to be delivered back to you, and include right of refusal for inadequate workmanship. EVERYTHING in writing.
7) Stop payment through your credit card. This has gone on long enough.
You don't have to be worrying about being nice -- he doesn't want to be your friend, he just wants to keep your money! You will never see him again after this, and you are not being "not nice". This is a business transaction, think of it as such. You don't have to worry about being fair -- you already have been, he has not. And I am sorry, but he has chosen a fight, so you either fight or be a doormat and lose YOUR hard earned money.
You know, being in business involves taking on risk, and the reward for that risk is profit. He can either profit from choosing that manufacturer, or end up with no profit by the same choice. It is his risk, that he assumed, not yours.
|AKL, I do think you need to stand up for yourself and your money. You don't have to get into a "big fight", as a matter of fact the cooler and calmer you are the better. Don't allow him to dictate the terms. Just state exactly what you ordered, exactly what you received, and exactly what is acceptable to you to resolve the issue. |
I own a business. I just had a customer return product that clearly was not defective. He has been a great customer so I took it back with a smile and assured him I would have a new one for him tomorrow. My customers, and their satisfaction, is paramont and it should be to every business.
|I thought for the credit card to take action there had to be no cooperation in a resolution to the complaint... if the store is offering to have the furniture refinished and since the finish and lack of finish seem to be your major complaints, there is an offer for resolution of the problem... |
the fact that you didn't see the product before ordering definitely complicates the matter... but, there is no way I would pay any restocking fee unless I just decided that I really didn't like the furniture-- I wouldn't pay a dime if I wasn't happy with the quality of the finish...
I possibly would consider the 25% off the total price discount if i really loved the furniture except for the finish quality...
I can't see some of the issues in your photos- maybe it's just my laptop-- I would definitely encourage better photos if the store owner is refusing to come out to your house to look at the furniture himself... and I would contact the manufacturer directly and email the photos- they might be much more responsive...
|My furniture orders are always custom. And, by that, I mean an order for which I have a choice of finish or fabric, and have to wait for the order to be completed. I've bought a lot of furniture from a lot of different manufacturers, and I have NEVER had a problem getting a replacement or repair for a defective piece. That includes a custom finished kitchen table purchased from an Amish-owned store, which was replaced when the finish was incorrect. In all cases, I used the defective furniture until the replacement arrived. I've never asked for my money back, but I do demand resolution. |
In one case, a shadow of lighter stain was visible on an armoire. The company sent out a local furniture finisher who repaired it perfectly. Had he not, I would have demanded replacement.
Except for the leg, I can't see the problems you're detailing, but I would give the retailer 2 choices. Either repair the furniture to perfection or replace it. The furniture can be repaired. Anyone in the furniture industry can tell you many repairs are done to furniture before being delivered to the customer without the customer ever knowing. If it is "Amish" furniture, it may be that the individual who finished it was sloppy. Actually, Amish furniture, at least around here in Amish country, is not bench-made but assembled with parts- even with a custom order. A different base, different top for a table. The finishing is the only thing "Amish".
I would take not one penny from my pocket for the problem. I would also not choose any other furniture from the same store to use up a credit, unless it was something I had previously decided to buy.
You obviously loved this furniture when you purchased it. Make a list of each defect, let the dealer refinish, and then determine if the problem is solved. Even if you order furniture from another place, you'll have a 6-8 week wait. By agreeing to repair the defects he will be, in essence, agreeing the furniture is defective. This will make your case stronger later.
You haven't remarked whether you paid with a credit card; I suspect you did not. That makes it more imperative to give him a chance to repair or replace.
This post was edited by deeinohio on Fri, Sep 5, 14 at 8:17
|Wow, thank you all. Some great perspectives! |
I did pay with a credit card. I was in touch with the cc company, and they can open a dispute if I wish.
I did love the furniture when purchased, now I just want it out of my house. It's become emotional for me, as we spent so much time looking at furniture to be so disappointed.
The owner that I spoke with yesterday said he'd be coming by this afternoon to look at it.
I did mention the floor again. As our hardwood guy had some finishing to do, he fixed it up, but I do have pics and the email documenting said damage.
He did offer me I think essentially a new set, but my confidence is shot in the original manufacturer that I'm very hesitant to do that.
Which is why I am trying to be fair (a doormat) as he is trying to resolve but I don't like that option.
Ok, he came as I was writing this. He examined the furniture, said some of what I was expecting was reasonable, some was unreasonable. Wood is imperfect. I get it, our house is full of teak and hardwood floors.
He's going to contact the manufacturer and see what to do. He will take it away Friday. I told him I want my $ back. We'll see what happens by Friday. If I don't get resolution, I'll take it to the cc company. I have zero confidence that it'll be refinished correctly. He said, "You have to give us a chance." I said I did, but ordering it, and how many chances do I have to give you?
You guys rejuvenated me :) Thank you so much for the support.
|That's great that he is coming to pick it up on Friday! I would notify the CC company that you are in negotiations with the store owner to have the problem resolved. They will suspend payment due on the disputed amount while you try to sort things out with the store owner. There are time limits for everything, but I found my CC company to be completely reasonable with that when I had my dispute. The store that I was dealing with dragged things out for MONTHS. You don't want your deadlines to pass while the same thing happens to you. |
If you do decide to let him replace it, have him accept delivery at his place of business and inspect it there. I would not be too happy about having new furniture "refinished," especially since the quality of the first set is subpar. Besides, you didn't pay for refinished furniture, and refinishing requires you to live without furniture for two months! That's unreasonable.
|Thank you jellytoast, that sounds totally reasonable! I will call the cc company in the am.|
|Call them now! They are open 24/7.|
|So Much Drama. I am on pins and needles to see the resolution of this bad order issue. So the OP ordered and paid for a high quality craftsman suite, I noted it described as Amish (nothing Amish going on in that product), Is there no receipt or contract for this order? |
Suite arrived, damage on product and damage to home. OP accepted delivery, and it's been in the house for more than a week. Was any of this noted on the delivery paperwork? Store is willing to give credit, OP thinks this is a possibility ?!? Who would even consider buying anything else from this place???
Then the comment that "The owner seemed willing to negotiate something that would work. 10% restocking-no go at this point. He'll do a portion as store credit if I find something. I did find a beautiful kitchen set. $$ though." What the heck does "seemed" mean? Will and Won't are the operative words to be demanding here.
And good luck getting the credit card company to reverse the charge, I am betting my purse that the store has a signed order receipt and delivery receipt with ALL the terms and conditions printed and signed for.
I am beginning to think that there is something wrong all right!! I can't wrap my head around an order like this and the OP has no receipt/contract/idea of the specifics beyond it's damaged. Good luck!
|sasafras- Yes, it's Amish. I have a receipt, no contract- I bought it from a catalogue that my DH and I poured over for what seemed like hours. |
My DH accepted delivery-DH and the store employee noted some imperfections in the piece and told me to email him with the issues. I did that same night.
I went looking in the store on Tuesday, there is nothing like the quality of our suite. Everything is smooth and drool worthy as it's so gorgeous and done well. This is what I thought we were getting.
The owner came by yesterday to look at it, and he said some was just wood ie, dents. Really? So that's where he lost me and I started to get more demanding, yet calm.
I feel naive, but we never expected this problem at all.
|I agree with Sasafras. This is smelling fishy. Some people just like drama and fawning. I can't see anything much wrong in the photos except for the scratched leg. Doesn't look Amish to me at all. There are a lot of fake Amish dealers out there.|
|Seriously Em11- drama and fawning? It is from the Amish store and from an Amish manufacturer. I'm not sure why the disbelief? And the imperfections totally did not come out in photos. I did mention that in that post. I will try again to take pics to send to the cc company. It is difficult to photograph white furniture. I got some good pointers from some helpful posters up above.|
|I can most definitely understand that you have lost faith in the products by this company and want to be done with it. Also, there should be some quality control before they send out the furniture. I'm assuming here that these were not defects that happened during transportation but rather sloppy workmanship. |
However, I can also understand the store owner's request to "give them a chance" to make this right.
In other words, would you still be happy if you got this furniture in the "drool worthy" condition of the pieces that are on display in the show room? Or have you changed your mind over the bedroom set?
|Why not try to deal with the vendor (company who provided and produced these pieces) rather than the store owner? |
In most cases store owners know very little about the furniture they sell and usually have no means to fix or handle furniture issues. Although there seems to be a few minor problems from the photos; nothing seems significant and if they are offering to refinish that is a resolution.
Also, I would like to point out that it is the store owner you have become frustrated with; not the vendor who provided the furniture. It does seem as though you have changed your mind and just decided this is not what you want; maybe it doesn't look as expected in the space?
|I can clearly see the nicks in the white paint on the drawer fronts and chunks out of the leg and cross bar. Even if they do touch up the nicks, I bet it will be prone to them in the future. Are you going to polka dot with touch-up paint for the rest of its life? Also, notice how the cross bar supporting the legs is just screwed in. I didn't think Amish used screws in their cabinetry.|
|Thanks may_flowers, isabel98 and nosoccermom. I'm glad you can see the issues may_flowers, I'm going to try a video as well for documentation, as a lot if it is feel too (very rough drawer insides etc). |
I showed the furniture to the carpenter who is here working on our kitchen, he was also less than impressed.
It is definitely from an Amish manufacturer.
It does look gorgeous in our space, until you get close. I'd post a pic, but we have not made our bed and I have towels and blankets covering the furniture so nothing happens to it!
Here is a link that might be useful: Page 34 is the furniture but in antique white
|And thanks bbstx for the photobucket tutorial!|
|I also wonder why you haven't contacted the manufacturer of the furniture.|
|I stopped wondering some time ago, all of obvious handling has been ignored or simply isn't an option. DH should have sent the entire order right back when it arrived damaged but oh well. |
Here is what I have learned reading this drama fest. Amish is word used to upsell junk! Ordering droolworthy stuff via catalog is no bueno!! And not having an order contract that explains return/exchange/restocking fees in detail at the time of purchase is just unheard of in my neck of the woods. Maybe for a pack of gum, but for a bedroom suite - Just No!!!
Hopefully the store owner will show up tomorrow to pick up this order and refinish it and won't do any new damage. Then it can be redelivered and hopefully in drool worthy condition and no damage will result in the redeliver. I am not holding my breath though. Good luck aklvdb.
|I didn't know this was a drama fest sasafras! I feel stupid, believe me, and super naive. I took a video, DH laughed at me, but it's better than pics. "Listen to the rough wood" as my hand rubs across it- it is pretty funny. |
A lesson learned, a bit of an uphill battle now I'm sure, but we'll get through it.
|I'm really confused why people are turning on OP, who is just trying to resolve a consumer complaint WITHOUT a bunch of drama. I suspect she's going to get further with the store by remaining nice than she would by acting differently. If not, she can ratchet up the pressure until she gets results, but if it's not needed why start there? It doesn't seem to be her style - in fact it's many people's style to behave as she is. |
Sorry to talk about you as if you're not here aklvdb! Hoping for the best outcome for you.
|Ditto Olychick.....good luck with the return.|
|Thanks olychick and kswl, I was also a bit confused as to the turn. But it's the internet, and everyone has a right to their opinion, even if I don't agree. I did ask for it after all! |
I just don't understand the response that 'it sounds fishy'. This is 100% true!
I've read all the posts and have taken all of them into consideration. I appreciate the time that it's taken people to respond.
Thank you to everyone.
|I've been mostly lurking here, but I totally agree with Olychick. Good luck with your return. I think you've received some great advice. Stand your ground and don't give up on getting your money back.|
|Thank you outsideplaying! I just called the cc company IN CASE something cannot be resolved at the store/manufacturer level. They've given me great advice. |
"Get everything in writing" is my new mantra.
My last one was "Nobody gets paid until I'm happy!" (dealing with kitchen reno- so far that has served me well!)
|When you look at the catalog, there's no mentioning of painted wood. Is there a chance, that someone else painted the furniture? |
I'd call the manufacturer.
|Good luck AKL. I agree with Oly & KSWL, you are heart sick & just trying to resolve the issue. Best wishes and let us know how it turns out.|
|Wasn't he supposed to come and take it all away today? I hope that went well and you gain your satisfaction, aklvdb.|
|Thanks ghostlyvision, holly-kay. He did come and take it away today. I had the employee sign what he took as per recommendations from the cc company, and will follow up with an email outlining what was taken and why. |
Nosoccermom- I inquired about the finishing, and the finisher is different from the manufacturer. I looked at the back of the product to get all the names involved, and it does have the painted wood colour on the brand name of the product.
This is seriously just a poop show ;) The backs of the product was awful. My 20 year old oak furniture is in better shape.
I have some more pics if anyone wants to see. I still don't know if I can do all of them in the post!
And a big thank you again to bbstx for teaching me how to upload all the photos in one post!
|Wow...those photos show horrible work, I would expect full refund.|
|It looks like Walmart furniture. I think you're owed a few apologizes by those who accused you of being a drama queen.|
|To be fair, the pics I posted earlier did not show all of this, it was really hard to show the imperfections on white. But the more I looked, the more I found! |
But ya, I'm not a drama queen at all (in this respect anyways ;) ) Thanks may_flowers and lyban!
|Glad I could help with the pic posting tips! Keeping my fingers crossed that you can get it resolved in your favor.|
|Great job! |
Sometimes it's just so impossible to believe something is sooo bad!
I paid an Amish group to quilt a quilt I'd made, because time was short. My nephew was going to be born. Now, I can quilt and I can quilt very well, with nice, tight, straight stitches.
When I received this quilt back, I cried. It was A.W.F.U.L. I asked if they were letting children practice on it? AWFUL. Huge looping, crooked stitches. They didn't use the thread I'd supplied -- at least 3/4 of the way through it.
After a week's horror and disappointment, I called to ask them to take it back and rip the stitches out. I wasn't asking for my money back, but I would redo it myself.
The woman was shocked (more than when my reaction when I picked it up) and took it. A month later she called to tell me they couldn't get it all out, but they would refund my money. Horse hooey.
My SIL and I sat down and took it all out in about 45 minutes. What kind of seamstresses they were is beyond me. All the work they were selling in their shop was gorgeous, but evidently not done by the same people.
My point is you never know and disappointment is so hard.
I and most everyone these days buys from catalogues. I don't think that was a mistake on your part at all. There is a level of trust and expectation by us and the store owner providing that product's catalogue. This was just a fiasco no one expected. We have to trust, but they have to make it right.
|Thanks CEFreeman! Isn't it awful when things are misrepresented? And what an emotional time for you too, you want the quilt for a reason, you can do it yourself but are on a time crunch, then that happens. And I'm sure it wasn't cheap! |
And I'm sure you can talk to most people, and they will know that the Amish have a reputation for building good stuff. Of course there are exceptions as with anything (and I guess I found out the hard way!)
The thing is too, my IL's have bought tons of stuff from there. No issue. If there was, they got a major discount, but nothing like this, the furniture is gorgeous (more Amish/mission styling than I'd like, but done well, heavy and finished properly)
|aklvdb, you've been anything but a drama queen. I would have been a wild crazy person if I had paid good money for such poor quality. Your composure and forbearance are remarkable. |
I hope everything works out for you, whatever outcome you desire. You are entitled to that.
The upstream criticisms from a few were just weird and bizarre to me. Like someone had a bee in their bonnet and took it out on you. Not nice.
|That looks like terrible work. It really looks cheap. I am sorry you are going through this. I can understand paying a restocking fee if you change your mind on something, but not for work of poor quality. |
I hope that the furniture has been removed. At this point, I would open a claim with the cc company. I would tell them that the owner has removed the furniture and admitted to the damages. You want a full refund now that you no longer have the furniture. It will probably take a couple mos. to receive
If I was the owner of the store, I would not argue with you over a 20% restocking fee. I would apologize profusely, take the financial hit, and resolve it myself with the manufacturer. I would probably settle for a 10% restocking fee though, if he would agree, just to be done with this mess. But I would not buy anything from that store or do an exchange for store credit.
|So I just sent an email as recommended by the cc company to develop a paper trail (unfortunately, they have never responded to me in the past) about what I ordered and what I received, detailing the issues. And that I have pics and videos. The back is a disaster, is it not?!?! My goodness, I could have done better in grade 7 woodworking shops class! I think I did! |
I know rockybird, it looks so so cheap. It was not! I wish the owner was being reasonable, but after seeing the backs of the furniture, I'm done with negotiating. That is ridiculous, and I should not be penalized for not getting what I ordered. Back to my 20 year old furniture. At least it holds clothes and looks a lot better than the other stuff.
I just can't deal with this and the company anymore. I'm done and I just want my $ back.
Thanks linelle, sometimes I feel like a wild crazy person with all the stuff that happens to me (nothing too crazy, but stuff like this all the time-and I research things to death!). So much so that my DH says to my 4 year old DS- "Always an adventure with mom!"
|Drama is evident here - So much so that my DH says to my 4 year old DS- "Always an adventure with mom!" |
Ha ha. I am glad to know the furniture is taken back. Yes the back is a disaster, I still question accepting it into the home. The furniture opera is coming to an end, and I do hope you get a full refund.
It's great that you have learned - "Get everything in writing" is my new mantra. and "Nobody gets paid until I'm happy!"
That should help eliminate some of your "adventures" from now on.
|Oh sasafras, if only you knew. I don't make it, I just deal with it. |
So the "nobody gets paid until I'm happy" came from our little (10-12K) kitchen reno last summer. Had issues with the electrical (high voltage from the wall only covered with marrettes) and some cabinetry.
Then had the owner tell me that I was lucky his company did it as nobody else would have touched it because it was so small. We got 3 quotes but went with them as they had been around 70 years and did check references.
Then 3 months later (if that) we had a flood from our dishwasher when the water was off and the lines drained, and a relative checking our house every 2 days. So that necessitated more of a kitchen reno, which is still going on (this happened in November).
I didn't even mention the beetles from our beautiful (king sized) headboard we had made. The beetles we discovered the day before we were leaving for out of the country and my DH was working 12 hours that day while I got myself and small child ready for vacation. That was resolved very quickly and simply by a phone call from the guy who made it. Who felt horrible and replaced the infested pieces no problem. And he was happy I told him so he didn't use the same timbers, so we all learned!
Like I'm sorry, but you can't make this stuff up! Who orders a headboard and gets beetles from it? Me apparently. So nothing I could have done would have eliminated that 'adventure'.
I did learn this time to get everything in writing. The thing with life is you're tested before you learn all the answers!
|Oh, and my DH accepted the furniture. He's pretty laid back and trusting in this regard, and he didn't think he'd have an issue. And our blinds were broken, so we couldn't see a lot of the issues as we didn't have the natural light. Once we took them down, holy moley! |
And we didn't see the backs until they were taking it away.
Another lessen learned!
|The backs of those pieces look like hackmanship, not craftmanship (Amish or otherwise), good to know they at least stood by their word and removed them. I wouldn't settle for any restocking fee/store credit/whatever, they should not profit from this escapade. A full refund and deepest apologies are owed to you, nothing less.|
|I was the first to comment: "Stand firm and get your money back and the badly made furniture out of the house." So I'm happy to hear that 1) it's out of the house and 2) it seems you are closer to a refund. |
I understand about the drama issue; I've had my share and lots of it (the worst) came about as the result of shoddy workmanship. I had a staircase made three times by 3 different companies, two licensed, one fraudulently using someone else's license. (I didn't learn that until I challenged the product.) I usually play nice the first go-round, then the gloves are off and I take no prisoners. I got every dollar back in each case, and in two cases, got the crap out of my house. The third guy was so afraid of a lawsuit if he damaged my house removing it that he refunded the entire amount and left the staircase. It's ugly as sin and terribly made, but it is safe to use and will stay there till I find someone who knows caca from shinola when it comes to constructing stairs.
Someone mentioned that there is "nothing Amish about it" and I tend to agree. I think we have all fallen under the spell of the very word, "Amish" and don't realize just how corrupted it's become. Your furniture definitely does not look handmade; it is very apparent that someone used electrical tools - and not well. I could have done better.
It seems we've all been through the wringer - more than once - dealing with contractors, tradesmen, salesmen, etc. It happened to me - again - just days ago. Every time, I think I have learned a lesson and most times, I do. The problem is, it's easy to believe that what you're being told is true. The drama comes when you realize it's not.
|No kidding ghostlyvision and tomatofreak.. I'm sorry you had to go through all that with your staircase. I don't know why this is so difficult. |
I just had a guy over to look at doing some finishing carpentry in the winter. He seemed to know what he was doing :) But what do I know at this point! I did show him the pics of the amish furniture, and he couldn't believe it.
I did receive an email from the owner of the store, he's going to take it to the manufacturer and get some answers. And he'll get back to me in a week, he's sorry for the grief this has caused me and that he trusts I understand. And will do his best to square up as fair as possible.
Thank you all for all the support, it has helped me be more firm in my responses and expectations, which will hopefully get me closer to getting this chapter over with with a positive resolution.
|AKL, I was reading that you had beetles in your headboard. It was probably walnut. There is a wood products quarantine in sixteen states including PA in five counties. The quarantine applies to all walnut material except for nuts. processed lumber, and finished wood products that don't have bark on them. |
The beetles tunnel under the bark and cause a disease to the tree called thousand cankers. The affected states other than the five affected counties in PA are AZ, CA, CO, ID, IN, MD,NV, NM,NC, OH,OR, TN,UT, VA, and WA.
Apparently the beetles are very small and hard to detect. Your carpenter should, if he didn't already, call the Dept of Agriculture.
|I went to the website you ordered from and didn't see a return policy listed. This would have been a red flag to me when ordering online. Just another thing to consider in the future if you order online. I have come across some crazy return policies and have nixed the company immediately for that reason. |
I hope this gets resolved quiickly and painlessly. You sure have had some interesting "adventures!" Lol. Especially the headboard issue. How long before you noticed those? Did you sleep in the bed before noticing?
|As fair as possible? Who's treated him unfairly? Good grief! I don't think he plans to give you a full refund. I'd email back that that's the only fair treatment you'll accept.|
|I agree with May. The only fair resolution is for you to get your money back in full!|
|holly-kay- these were big wood boring beetles. They had larvae in the wood, I believe it was oak timbers. Great times! I learned something there, but it was resolved no issue. We went to an exterminator to confirm that they would not eat our house! But otherwise they were gone after being killed. |
anitamo- we had it in our house about 6 weeks before they started to come out give or take. We figure, as it was freezing cold in the prairies where we are in Canada, that when they warmed up in the house they started their cylce? And it was April here, so we thought perhaps it was just the regular buggies getting in the house. Except it was only beetles (weird) and only in our bedroom.
And we did go to the brick and mortar Amish store to order, didn't order online. Sigh. Still I feel stupid.
Thank you may_flowers and holly-kay, I will email back with that response.
|Ditto what may_flowers said above. Being fair is not an option, being refunded 100% is the only acceptable result. The poor workmanship was reason enough but the beetles top that! I guess email is a good thing because you will have a trail of conversation. But I would write a letter to the store owner, and cc the Mfg, the credit card company, and yourself. A week to get an answer is ridiculous. The store owner is responsible for this entire transaction and owes you the refund (assuming that is who you paid for your order). You should not have to wait for his negotiations with the mfg!|
|Thanks sasafras for seeing the way :) That makes complete sense, and I shouldn't have to wait for what the manufacturer says. Either way, I have until Sept. 20 for the refund according to the cc company, and if I don't receive it I will open a formal dispute. |
The beetles were a whole 'nother builder. I felt so bad for the carpenter who did the head board. We found him on your equivalent of craig's list, and him and his family was so sweet. I felt so bad telling him of this. He was blown away, and said right away that he would do anything he could to make me happy. That is customer service.
This post was edited by aklvdb on Sat, Sep 6, 14 at 20:19
|As fair as possible? The only fair soln. is refunding 100% of your money without delay.|
So I received an answer from the owner of the store who is hanging with the manufacturer in the USA right now.
He brought the furniture back to the builder and discussed the issues I had with it.
He explained his policy as this is custom ordered, not just taken from a shelf. They have never sold this set as painted before, they cannot give a refund until they try to solve the issues with the product.
The painter was different from the builder and had the builder seen it it wouldn't have passed inspection.
So the owner and manufacturer are proposing that when the owner goes down to the US again at the end of October, he will bring back beautiful furniture that is painted by the manufacturer who has experience painting kitchen cabs and will be inspected by the owner of the manufacture company.
Then before it is delivered to our house, we will go to the store to inspect it.
So they have my 4K and I'm not getting furniture for another 2 months.
So now what? It's not just the finishing, cross bars were cracked and the backs were hacked (as per the pics!). It sounds like they will fix the cosmetic stuff, but I don't know.
I just have such a bad taste in my mouth about this whole thing now. The owner of the local store says he is in the US and doesn't get internet most of the time, so I can contact him next week.
Do you think I have enough to open a formal dispute with the cc company, or because they are trying to fix it I'm stuck with it?
THANK you for all your advice and wisdom!
|Didn't the builder see the shoddy wood workmanship? He's blaming everything on the painter, but that's only part of the problem. I wouldn't trust any of them. I'd contact the cc company and tell them that you no longer want to deal with this company that sent you damaged furniture and have no faith that they will be able to make it right. I would also tell them you cannot wait 2 months anyway. You want a full refund.|
|I think at this point they should be giving you the option of the builder working it out for you or offering your $$ back. You shouldn't have to wait 2 months for furniture if you don't want to. It's not your fault they didn't get it right the first time and you shouldn't have to pay the consequences for their errors. |
If you truly love the items and want to give them a chance, with them knowing you have the right of refusal if they don't get it right, that's your call.
|I would continue to pursue the matter with the cc company. At this point, I wouldnt trust any work that they might do to try to repair the furniture.|
|Did you tell the store owner that his proposed solution doesn't address the shoddy construction and that you want your money back? |
You will never be happy with this furniture so I think you should pursue it as far as you can with the credit card company and hopefully you get your money back.
Do you have small claims court in Canada? If so, that might be another option.
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