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Posted by aggierose
Wed, Aug 1, 12 at 18:23
|I'm painting a few pieces of furniture for my daughters room and after much thought I decided to use chalk paint. After a 30 minute conversation with the lady at the store, I was assured that this paint requires NO sanding, NO primer and only 1 coat. I was also told it was great at not showing brush marks. It sounded perfect. I was told not to sand because I'm not going for the distressed look so my plans were to paint one coat, then apply the clear wax. I painted my first coat and was immediately concerned. My furniture was bleeding through the paint!! I kept going thinking that the paint must cover it up as it dries because after all, I was assured no priming was necessary. As the first coat dried it was obvious that the countless brushstrokes weren't going anywhere. It looks terrible now with pinkish brown bleeding through everywhere and brush strokes everywhere you look. I thought maybe a second coat? So I tried that. It is still bleeding through and the added coat didn't help with the brush strokes either. Now I don't know what to do. I now have a white nightstand with pinkish brown bleed through all over it, and I'm already halfway through a $40 pint of paint. I HATE this stuff! I should have known it sounded too good to be true! I haven't waxed it yet. Maybe that will fix all the problems??|
|Thats odd. I have never used it but so many on this forum love it. |
What was on the nightstand before you started, wood or a paint.
Could you post a photo.
|Is this piece mahogany? Yes that will bleed through and needs to be sealed to keep it from doing so. Sorry you are having troubles. I've used this paint and like the results but I haven't used it on mahogany.|
|Rafor, do you mean mahogany wood, or just the color mohagony? The nightstands are just 2 old nightstands that I got off of craigslist. They were a dark brown stain with a very glossy finish. I don't know anything else about them since the came from craigslist and I don't know much about furniture. That's the main reason I decided to go with chalk paing since it said it works on anything. It would be nice if the info on the can mentioned that some items may need a primer. What do I do now? Do I have to prime the whole thing and put a third coat of paint on?|
|If the lady at the paint store told you that you could use it as you did I would return what is left of paint and get my money back.|
|I agree with you, OP......in that I have had mixed results with ASCP. |
I am wondering how long ASCP's reps can get away with their claims. It does NOT work on everything and it should be tested on a piece before moving forward, imo. If it does work like advertised, it's great. I have painted some items beautifully and easily with the paint. However, I tried painting a couple benches and it would not stick AT ALL. In addition, I painted a mirror and had bleed through like you. For both items, I had A LOT of extra work in removing the chalk paint and it was frustrating...
I agree with lyban..... if the rep's claims were overstated, you should be refunded your money. This is an expensive product!
|Is there anyway to fix the bleed through now? Can I prime it now or is it too late? I can live with the brushstrokes since this is for my 3 year old daughters room, but the bleed through is bad. Does anyone know if sanding will help the brushstrokes, or will it just make it look distressed?|
|Don't wax what you have painted. Just get a sealer, seal and repaint. There are numerous web sites that discuss chalk paint and several have mentioned this bleed through. They would also give you the name of something to use for a sealer. I have read that mahogany and other dark stains, particularly on old pieces, are the ones that bleed. I had a friend who painted some really old dark pictures frames with old white chalk paint and got a greenish bleed through in places. Fortunately for her she liked the look.|
|Sanding very very, lightly will remove the brushstrokes. If you sand too much, you'll sand through the entire coat and get the distressed look, accidentally. |
I think you should be able to sand the brushstrokes off and then prime over everything. You obviously have to with this piece. Then your paint should adhere just fine...
|I love the paint. A little goes a long way. |
I have read on a couple of blogs about pink coming through the paint. Google and see if you can find out anything. I can't remember the blogs where I have read that. I have never had to sand or prime. No brushstrokes either. I'm getting ready to try crackling with the ASCP on an old urn.
|If the piece is mahogany, and it sure sounds like it is, you will need to use a shellac based primer, not ordinary latex primer. Even the latex stain blocking primers would not keep mahogany from bleeding through. I've use BIN successfully to seal mahogany but still needed 2 coats of primer to seal in that pink. The first coat still bled, but the second stayed white and then I could paint.|
Here is a link that might be useful: bin Primer
|tinam, what could I be doing that would leave such bad brush marks? I've been looking online a lot tonight and I found one site that said the brush marks are intended to add to the effect of the paint. As in, the paint is made to leave brush marks. I'm totally confused about this paint....|
|aggie.. I only get brush marks when I put on more than one coat. The first coat levels out by the time it dries, typically. I don't think your source is correct....|
|I have mentioned this before. Taking a chance posting it again with all who love ASCP. My experience is that hobby acrylic paint works the same way and is far less expensive. All I've done is clean well, sand some places if need be and paint on. The acrylic has never needed more than one coat and you can use waxing as wanted for sheen. I prefer a softer look and just use a spray furniture polish. It gives enough sheen for me and works well with the acrylic. There has never been any chips or wearing. |
Worth trying on a trial piece of scrap wood. Any type of wood, raw, stained or painted. An 8 oz bottle for 2.99 from Walmart, they have many colors. Or go to a hobby store. Plus I mix some to get colors wanted from paint chips found. Sometimes I do need to water down for the right flow and using the right brush is important, as with chalk paint.
|vicki,thank you for your advice. I have another question. I just looked at my piece and the paint is now cracking. Is this because it needed a primer? Also, what specific shellac product should I use?|
|Okay - if you go to the AS web site (which has some good information BTW!!), there is an explanation about the pink or sometimes yellow bleed through. It is NOT the paint. |
To the OP, this paint is different in texture from many other paints. Perhaps you are not used to that. I've not had a problem with brush strokes, but there is texture - so maybe it is the same thing. Emagineer is correct about the brush you use making a difference.
As for the wax, you can add sheen or not - depending on buffing. But, the wax is for more than sheen - it is a protective coating.
Hope this helps.
Also IMO, you won't get the same look with acrylic paint as you will with the chalk paint, so it depends on the look you want. I have no experience in distressing with acrylic paint. It is so easy with the chalk paint. Again, it all depends on the look you want.
Here is a link that might be useful: bleed through
|The bleed through from old pieces is because they are cheap wood dyed the dark red-brown of mahogany, and the dye dissolves in the paint and tints it too, |
The cure id to put a coat of alcohol-based sealant on it.
|"After a 30 minute conversation with the lady at the store, I was assured that this paint requires NO sanding, NO primer and only 1 coat." |
I'd take what's left back to the store and ask for a refund.
Zinsser's BIN primer works great. I've used it on pine to seal the knot holes and had no bleed throughs. Speaking off topic about primers in general, if you've never used Zinsser's 123 primer try it sometime. It's my go to primer and it requires no prep sanding.
Sorry you have a mess now with your furniture pieces. I know how frustrating it can be when a project doesn't go as planned and then requires more work. Their website may state about bleed throughs but the lady at the store should've known that before helping you along to buy such an (expensive) can of paint.
|BIN is white pigmented shellac, as most of you probably know, cleans up with denatured alcohol, and seals knots and other bleedy things better and faster than anything I've ever used.|
|I went ahead and bought the BIN primer. I put 2 coats on, and then another coat of paint. The bleed through is definitely gone now. I do have a lot of brush marks, but the more I read about the paint, the more I think that is just what it is supposed to do. I think "texture" and "brush marks" in some cases are the same. I will admit that as the paint got a little thicker I could see how easy it was to play with the "texture" and I was starting to like it. My piece is finished now and I'm happy with how it turned out, it was just a lot more work than I planned on. (5 coats instead of 1) However, now that I have learned what I have learned, I think that my next 4 pieces that I have to do will go much quicker. Thanks for all the advice!|
|Vicki, I have another nightstand to do which is just like the one I already did so I know I have to prime that one. I also have a solid wood dresser that is Pine. I wasn't planning on priming that one. Is Pine known to bleed for any reason? I also have a headboard. I have no idea what kind of wood it is, but it is painted purple right now and the finish is a very, very high gloss. Should I prime that piece? I wasn't planning on it.|
|Coming late to this. You got some excellent advice and I'm glad that I read through as I may be ordering AS to do a project for a client. |
DH only uses Zinssers on the furniture that he does.
I've found that a crumpled up brown paper bag is an excellent way to knock down brush strokes and get a nice buffed finish w/o going down to the finish underneath. You can do that too but you have to rub ridiculously hard.
|I've used the chalk paint on a number of pieces, and I've always gotten a smooth finish, with no brush strokes. And I didn't sand or prime. The pieces were mostly oak (not old quarter sawn oak, but oak from the 1980s). They all had shiny finishes on top--but I don't know what they were. For some of the oak, I had to do three coats, but two covered well--except the grain showed through more than I wanted (a typical problem with the open grain of oak). The first coat didn't cover really well--it kind of slipped over the shiny finish. But the second coat gripped very well to the first. I was using dark colors (Emperor's silk, which is red, and Napoleonic blue, a dark blue)--that might have made a difference. |
Again, I didn't really get much in the way of brush strokes, and I didn't water down the paint. But some people do let the paint thicken to create a deliberate texturing--so that may be what happened with you.
|Has anyone used chalk paint on furniture pieces that get daily use and need frequent cleaning? I've seen pics online of chalk painted dining furniture, kitchen cabinets, and even bathroom vanities. It looks nice but I've always been curious (skeptical?) about how well it holds up to frequent use and being wiped down like something you'd expect in a kitchen or bathroom.|
|I concur, chalk paint it seems only good if you are trying to get a distressed look. I have done a few projects, on different woods and all needed at least 2 coats. I paint light handed but all have brush marks, again the "shabby" look. I have found it a very expensive experiment :-(|
|I was just reading a book on painting finishes last night and "white pigmented shellac" is the one to use for sealing bleed through. Apparently the BIN product is that, but just wanted to clarify which sealers work. |
I haven't used chalk paint yet but for too many brushstrokes you could be putting the paint on too thick, working it too much and it has started drying already, or an important one already mentioned is getting a good quality soft brush to work with. The cheaper stiffer thicker bristles leave more brush work. I think some of them might have a stronger blunter cut on the tips too.
Something that caught my interest last night was the mention of using acrylic paint versus latex. They said acrylics can cause sticking and lifting of the paint when something is placed on the surface. The recommendation was part latex and part acrylic for the best of both worlds. They said they did not even like the look of a acrylic paint base saying it looked plastic.
I am trying to find out more about the paint content and lifting issue. Just wanted to mention it.
This post was edited by snookums2 on Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 16:10
|I definitely won't be using it for another project. I used the above recommended sealer, but my furniture is slowly starting to look a very slight pink so I know it's bleeding through. I'm just glad I got the furniture for next to nothing on craigslist and that it is for my little girls room and not a major piece. I have no idea why the sealer I used isn't working. Very frustrating though.|
|Very frustrating experience, i agree! I've tried chalk paint once on an oak veneer dresser, and it worked really well. One cover, no brush strokes and no bleed through. I still have loads of paint left. |
So, how do I figure out beforehand whether I can expect bleed through? Try it in an inconspicuous area first, or is there a way to assess it beforehand?
|Snook....the acrylic I mentioned is different than what is sold in paint stores, depts. I really suggest trying the craft paint on something small and see what it does for a full project. There has never been any lifting and pealing. |
Also, a suggestion to thoroughly clean items before painting. One never knows what has been used on furniture, Fornbees, wax, or many sprays of Pledge like products.
|I was going to postscript that the book I've been reading is 10 years old, so the acrylic paints might have come a long way since then. Some are using resins now. I notice Old Village Paint, used for painting furniture, offers an acrylic.|
|AGREED!! I read this before I painted my vanity with white chalk paint and thought since it was not mahogany I would go ahead, bad idea, it is seeping thru both first and 2nd coats!! |
I had a reply to my post saying only chalk wax can be used to get the desired aging look?? well after 2 average coats I have brush marks and bleed thru and a wax applied that will not allow me to age it via a glaze..
it seems like the claims to fame of chalk paint apply to only certain colors and certain wood and certain tools of the trade, more of a pain in the @$$ product. grrrr
Here is a link that might be useful: chalk paint i used van gogh
|I have never used AS paints, but as for brush strokes a good brush should be used whenever you are brushing rather than using a roller~my Dad taught me that years ago. He never used a nylon brush, but a natural bristle brush such as Badger~there's a world of difference! |
I sell all vintage painted furniture in my antique space, and have never used anything BUT acrylic paint. Latex is rubber based and will eventually end up coming off. If a glass of liquid is set on a table and a bit of moisture is left, it's a set up for it to start the peeling process unless a top coat if used.
In doing my furniture the first thing I do is a thorough cleaning with WINDEX. yes, Windex. The filth you get off used furniture is amazing, and if you don't clean it well, that could be why the paint doesn't stick. Bleeding thru is another problem and you'll need either a good oil primer, or a good oil base sealer, but it has to be oil based.
Is milk paint the same as chalk paint? It says it has 'outstanding adhesion' and can be used over many things including plastic.
Here is a link that might be useful: milk paint
|Hi Patty |
I want to add that I bought the entire kit of natural bristles brushes with the chalk paint and the wax and it all set me back $173. I am a very conscientious painter and apply light if anything and I have brush marks
I like the windex idea, thanks
as for painting over the chalk paint with a sealer, like the original poster this seems ludicrous with paint claiming to be less work!
|I love chalk paint. I have used it on several pieces. I think that you will see brush strokes until you wax and buff it. They will then go away. Before painting, I always clean the piece with mineral spirits to remove any dirt etc...|
|I have waxed pieces that still show brush strokes. The wax does nothing to make them go away...... the dark wax accentuates the strokes, even.|
|totally agree lauren, mine is waxed and they show.. frustrating |
I think chalk paint has its place, for pieces people do not want a seamless smooth look but rather a distressed textured look
|crazyone, I can understand you're not wanting to spend anymore money. Since AS makes such a claim, why don't you take what's left, back? I'm sure the dealer as well as AS want to protect their reputation. Take one of the drawers as 'proof'. |
I don't understand how waxing could make the strokes go away either.
|I know I'm late to this thread, but just wanted to add that I baffled by the love for this paint. I think the adulation was started by some home bloggers who also sold it at their businesses, and then other people just jumped on board. |
Tried it once. Not impressed at all with the look or the coverage. Expensive for something that I think looks outdated.
|There have been some beautiful examples of hand painted furniture here using AS (and I think home made recipes too). Very professional looking.|
|This isn't a promotion from a fan, but I've seen a lot of AS finishes at a large local antique mall that sells her products. Slap on a coat or two (or three) on the existing, clean finish, rough it up a bit for a phony aged look, and you have a look that I'd consider at least as good as should be expected for the time and effort put in. |
Some make some effort to put out quality pieces, though, preparing the original finish, doing special effects well, sanding with fine grit, waxing and rubbing up to three coats or so, and the difference is night and day. The silky hand-rubbed striae-design finish on a piece I couldn't afford but would have liked to was quite lovely.
Of course, the same person also produces fine pieces with standard products picked up at any paint store.
|I've heard of other people who have used it having the bleed thru problem also~one gal had yellow spots because the furniture she was painting was an unsealed maple. This can happen with any paint, and AS needs to be honest and make users aware like other brands do. Usually the label reads, "seal before using to prevent bleeding," the magic word being prevent. |
It's not too late to use a sealer~I use a water based poly in a satin.
I'm seeing the AS paint being used everywhere~I have a booth in an antique mall and several gals use it. I paint furniture also, and i've developed my own technique, but I don't use a wax. nor a chalk-type paint. I've been told by customers as well as other vendors that my furniture looks better than those that use the AS. Like Rosie has said, I think it's in the waxing, and one coat isn't enough. What i've seen is always a dull finish, even in professional studios. So far, i've not been impressed with the product.
I went to a small antique fair in my area yesterday, and one of the vendors made her own chalk paint at a cost much less than AS. I loved her colors and bought 3, but not the wax~i'll continue to use poly as my final coat. I like the satin finish it gives.
|I have never painted any furniture unless it was unfinished wood in the first place. To save yourself some aggravation in the future, maybe you could take a drawer from the furniture along when you talk to the sales associate at paint store and they can see exactly what you are talking about and dealing with. Sometimes our description and questions to pint Just a thought! |
Regardless of whether the product says no primer or sanding needed, I think I would have still put a primer on it. The one recommended seems to be the choice of all DIY people. I have used this product for primming wall paneling with great success, Kilz is also good but the odor just about put me and DH in hospital one night. It was our fault because we didn't want to open windows as it was close to 100 degrees.
|My exp. with it is it didn,t wear well on kitchen chairs. When it came time to remove it it was really hard to remove and I have stripped alot of furnature. I will second or third the acrylic craft paint from walmart. I used it on bedroom walls to do a wash effect over paint and 10 years later it still cleans up great. I also used it on a childs dresser and it has gone threw 2 kids and 14 years worth of cleaning all sorts of things including stuck on candy with flying colors. I do have a liguid ring on it where the kids set something with milk on it and the milk hardened and caused a wring on the finish that even melted on candy didn,t.|
|I wouldn't put a white primer on if you want to distress. My piece started with a white primer and I later decided I would try a chalk paint. I have done minimal distressing with sandpaper but you get the white showing very quickly (not good if you are not doing a light colored piece). |
AS has work from 20 years back that she says have worn fine over the years. If it's a piece with some distressing (usually the case with these paints), what is the problem with it not wearing well?
I think a lot of people get put off just by the price. It's hard to try at that price point. That's why I tried homemade first.
This post was edited by snookums2 on Sun, May 19, 13 at 19:55
|I have tried it on MULTIPLE pieces and have been painting furniture for years and professionally for the last 2. Personally, I am NOT impressed. The price of the paint and the guarantee (at least what I've seen) is that the price is justified because you don't spend money on sandpaper or primer and the claims of so much less work. The final straw for me was I had purchased a dresser and it was still wearing its original finish with the poly or shellac intact. I painted the first coat, then second, then third, then primer and then 2 additional coats of paint. I sanded between coats and used a Purdy brush. It LOOKS AWFUL. It is not smooth. It seems splotchy. I am so disappointed. I had really high hopes about this paint. There are awful brush strokes and I even added water to the paint (per bloggers instructions/experience) in an effort to minimize brush strokes for a smoother finish. I purchased several cans and have wasted A LOT of money. I am also not impressed with the wax. I am beyond disappointed. This paint in NO WAY lived up to the hype. Shame on the people who continue to promote it the way they do. I have used flat latex and the Walmart acrylics without primer and had much better luck. Very expensive lesson learned.|
|You joined today to state this? |
There are some nonprofessionals here who are not affiliated or selling AS who have been very pleased with their projects. The results are beautiful.
|From my admittedly amateur point of view, it sounds like it is a great paint for antiquing where you want something that will rub off easily and cleanly and give an uneven finish for a "distressed" look. |
All of which would make it an extremely lousy paint for anything where you want it to look like new or durable.
|I hate the feel of the paint - it's creepy. I don't like chalkboards either. |
I can admire the antiquing effects, but I can't stand to touch the unwaxed furniture.
|I just tried CeCe caldwell chalk paint and not so happy either, took 3 coats and I don't think I like the dry, rough look. For one thing, I think my piece is too modern with no interesting carvings or detail to get the benefit of the distressed look. Secondly, I remember when I was a kid, the craze was antiquing furniture by painting and then glazing with a darkened glaze. My mom did it on some piece of furniture that looked good for a couple years, then appeared very dated. Oh well, fashion . . .|
|It sounds like a problem with the wood rather than the paint. Some furniture particularly oak and 1930/40 stained wood can lead to bleed through. This can easily be cured by applying a knotting solution like shellac to the affected area before waxing.Use a rag to apply as it tends to mess up brushes. Once dry touch up with paint and wax. This is something that rarely happens and in all my years of painting furniture I have only had it occur twice. |
If you prefer no brush marks you should add a few drops of water to the paint. It can then be brushed or rollered on.Alternatively brush marks can be sanded out as long as you have not put on too thin a coat.
The other thing to remember is that unlike other paints it dries very quickly.You should avoid trying to work the paint.Instead try to work in one direction rather than going backwards and forwards. If you try and paint over whilst the paint is drying what looks like bits of chalk will appear.If it does don't panic.Let it thoroughly dry and use a fine grade sandpaper to remove them.
If the paint is cracking it may be that it was too hot.Or there is a problem with the original coat of paint/stain/varnish. Like most paints it is only as good as what is underneath.
Normally Annie Sloan stockists are very knowledgeable about their products and I sure they would normally have freely given this advice as it is in their interest to have happy customers rather than ones that bad mouth the product.
|Annie Sloan paint is good paint and there are a lot of people who really like it including me. I paint profesionally and used her paint for years.But!!if you want an easy fail proof chalk paint try "Belle Craie "Chalk Paint- more durable and they sell a spray you apply first. That is the key to adhesion. You are right, it's only as good as what's underneath.|
|I am in complete agreement with hating ASCP...even though my friend uses it and swears by it, I am disappointed in the results. I was lead to believe that it's so easy that a monkey could do it. I also sanded my piece first in an effort to be sure I didn't have bleed through; and as for easy - your are correct...too good to be true. I've been working on my drop front secretary (no china cabinet top...just the base) in Country Grey and have also had bleed through after 2 coats; finally had to use Kilz to stop it, then re-paint. The waxing/buffing is a bear to do - I went out today and purchased an electric car wax buffer. I've used almost the whole can on the desk and chair. Also an issue with the chair, which was white. I did not sand and the paint did not cover. Other bloggers and Annie Sloan have said that it may take "1 1/2" coats - what does that mean??? Once you start touching up, it looks terrible. |
I have now purchased a quart of Behr satin finish Marquee paint for another piece...but I'm stuck with most of my $354 ASCP purchase.
I have read on another blog that a gal was going to try a good quality flat paint and wax with Minwax. Thanks for listening:)
|How much paint and wax did you buy for the base of a secretary if you spent 350.00? |
I painted a very large oak dresser with their smallest can, and had still more than 3/4 left over. No sanding, no bleeding through. I also didn't use the AS wax but regular furniture wax. My daughter painted one of these plasticy fake French Provencal dressers, also without sanding or any problems. First time she ever painted.
It sounds like some surfaces cause problems with ASCP. The million dollar question is how to identify them beforehand.
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