How about *ordering* her to pick it up before she leaves, as you are going to buy (from Kreiss) the furniture you *thought* you ordered through her? And since she will then possess the furniture, it will be quite easy for her to inspect it, notice all the quality-control issues (which you and DH have carefully documented and photographed, of course), and begin processing your full refund for shoddy goods?

OK, perhaps this isn't the most diplomatic answer you could give her.

Grr. What a.... um, piece of work.

Well this is where it gets even more interesting. I called Kreiss HQ today and was told that they DO have an outside manufacturer for their outdoor furniture in Mexico. (That conflicts with their website and what the local Kreiss showroom told me, but I do believe the head office. Why would they lie?)

If I buy from Kreiss, they would need to make me a custom table. Obviously I'm leery of getting involved in the whole custom order kind of thing.

Here are photos of the Kreiss furniture:

And here are photos of what she delivered:

Clearly, the furniture she ordered for you is a knock-off of Kreiss. Email her again and say that you will not accept such shoddy merchandise, that you are not interested in reordering, and that there is no question but that the furniture should be returned and your money refunded. Period.

Hi Organic,

Yeah, it's pretty hideous. I really am at a loss as to what she's thinking or doing. And I'm beginning to think that she really believes this is the same manufacturer, because she keeps saying it. But she "installed" it, so how could she continue to think that? Did she not look at it? She noticed a tie was not cut, but not the messy welds and finish? And who authorized her to order cruddy rust? And there are no flexible legs on the Kreiss set. There isn't even a hole to put a leveler, if that's what it's called.

I'm not sending her the photos right now. I am going to wait until next week and have the showdown here.

Something you need to ask Kreiss - Do they charge the same amount for furniture made in the U.S. facility as in the contract(?) Mexico factory? How does one know where the furniture is made? Also, do all the Kreiss showrooms & stores sell the line made in Mexico? They have showrms in Canada & Mexico. Be very nice to Kreiss - you may need them.
Is she really a reputable designer? She sounds more like a factory rep - nothing wrong with that at all (I rep various lines, but do not represent myself as a "designer".)
You need to seek some legal advice - maybe contact the State's Attorney's Office to find an attorney who specializes in retail contract law.
You have Paid for these goods - she has delivered the goods - and you have them in your possession. You, unfortunately, own them and are responsible for them - in my opinion. She is delaying resolving this issue and I think you need to light a fire under her butt to make this issue a Priority!
Regardless of her past relationship to Kreiss, the quality of this set is what you are upset about, regardless of where it was made!

No wonder you're pissed! I would have lost it long before this, lol!!!

When I called Kreiss, they told me info up to a certain point, and then were not willing to divulge any information. I don't think Kreiss is involved in this. This is basically her problem with her manufacturer, and I want out of the loop.

She is a designer, and she reps various lines. (I forgot to mention that at some point, my sister inadvertently responded to the designer. I think the designer thought she was an attorney. But in her response, she was pretty clear that this furniture was not returnable because it is custom-made. Thus my language about the custom dress.

You're right Mago. I wouldn't care who made this stuff so long as it was good quality, but it's not.

She noticed a tie wasn't cut, because she couldn't tie the cushion on when she installed.
She knows what the stuff looks like!!! She thinks it is fine!
Please don't ever, ever order or even purchase furniture in a store, that doesn't
spell out exactly what the product is - especially the color. Did she show you a color chip or sample of her furniture? Cruddy Rust that accuratelydescribes the finish - it looks pretty cruddy!!! I know that wasn't a helpful comment for you; I just couldn't resist. :)

I'll admit, I was glancing at the first few photos thinking, "I don't really see a problem". THEN I came to your photos of YOUR furniture! That's just terrible. I wouldn't even buy that quality of furniture from Wal Mart, let alone a high end brand, privately ordered, for a lot more money.

meg: The furniture may have been "custom-ordered," but it was not the "custom" furniture *you* ordered. Don't get involved with back-and-forth details. The furniture is poorly made and is not what you ordered. Tell her that you are not interested in arguing about this further. She needs to remove the furniture and reimburse. Where do you live? I"ll help you "convince" her. :)

Meg - what was custom made about it? If they make the furniture for Keiss - then why is it custom - made? It may be Made to Order - that is entirely different. Custom & made to order are different.
I also urge you to not tell her everything you know, as you may need to pursue this legally - as you say this is a large purchase. Document everything, as someone else suggested.
Very unprofessional that she would respond to your sister about your order without knowing who she was actually responding to.
Also, very cool, GW responded to your need & this is still here.

I just realized I should have responded to her email and chastised her for not contacting me when she got back into town. She knows how upset we are and this should have been a priority.

DH doesn't want me to send photos but I think that I should. I just want to get this over with, get our money back and move on. I know there's something to be said for holding back info, Mago, but I keep thinking that once she sees everything, she'll understand and give us our money back. We're over the small claims court limit so it makes more sense to try to get this resolved without litigation.

And to make matters worse, I just found a beautiful set that I love, love, love. And there's an aluminum french country table in the set. It's not on sale right now so there's no rush:

Here is a link that might be useful: Summer Classics Palm

I agree with DH about the pics - She has seen the furniture. A sharp salesperson, would inspect these pieces one by one either during or prior to the installation, taking care of any problems BEFORE it reaches the client. If it was something minor, a quick note telling you what the problem was and what she was doing to fix it would be acceptable. Instead, I believe she knows what a mess this furniture is. She has no incentive to fix this for you. She has had your upfront money for 9 months, not sitting in a bank acct waiting to be sure you are happy, but instead, has probably spent it, invested it in this venture, paid other venders - whatever. She is reacting ( or not reacting) in a manner that screams potential cash flow problems, or she would meet the issue head on and work out a financial settlement with you. I hope I am wrong! Having said this, I really think you need to proceed quickly with whatever you & DH decide is in your best interest.
She can write checks or wire a refund from Canada or Mexico. (If she gets a check to you - immediately take it to her bank - the bank it is drawn on $ cash it. Do not deposit it in your acct.)
I do not mean to alarm you but she is sending up major red flags. Why did she say this furniture took so long to get here? Do you have any resources to do any kind of credit check on her company?
I suspected it was not small claims.

Meg,

Does your original order have style/piece numbers that you can check against REAL Kreiss numbers?

Also...is "cruddy rust" a real color from Kreiss?

I'm thinking of some furniture I ordered recently and both the piece number and color number are clearly stated on the order form.

Sorry you're going through this...I hope it resolves well for you.

Also, very cool, GW responded to your need & this is still here.. What???

Does Craig's List exist in your area? Time for a major exposé!

Sorry ... I meant Angie's List!!!

Just to clarify for me:

1. did you specifically ask her to order the Kreiss brand of furniture?

2. did you specifically give her the model number/design number of the items you wished her to order?

3. did you confirm the items brand and model number prior to placing the order?

or

did you just send her a photo, tell her you wanted something "like this" or "kreiss style."

Because unless you clearly provided the model and brand information to her, she can very easily say you told her you wanted something "Kreiss style" and not specifically "kreiss brand" (see the difference?) and if you approved the order without checking the specifics, you are responsible for what you got. Whether or not it is what you wanted or expected, unless she sent you something that is not what is detailed on the order sheet, you have less recourse. What is in writing is what matters, not what you verbally discussed.

I wouldn't go into this with the idea that she's already fighting and is going to insist you keep it. Her emails request the information about why you want to return the set, which would be expected. Even for her to point out that it was a custom order, would be expected. People don't always end up liking what they buy, but they've bought it. The issue here, though, is the quality. At this point, I'm not sure if she's still supposed to come by to inspect it or what, but schedule that if it's the next step. Or, maybe she'll just schedule pickup based on the photos only.

Okay, let me summarize.

This designer used to work for Kreiss but doesn't any longer. When I was about to order outdoor furniture from her, we were buying it based on internet and catalog photos (from Lane Venture) and I wasn't comfortable buying something without sitting in it first.

So she told me to go to Kreiss, look at and sit one their stuff, because she can order the same furniture directly from the manufacturer. (FYI, she still says that she ordered it from the Kreiss supplier and that it is exactly the same as what I sat on at Kreiss so there's no argument there.)

The invoices called it Capri, like Kreiss does, but there are no model numbers. I had emailed her that the finish is called rust, but the invoice did not specify a finish color. I now have learned that she ordered it in cruddy rust. She says "we" but I never heard of cruddy rust. Either way, she still says it's the exact finish that Kreiss uses.

I'm not sure where she and I had left it according to the emails. I think she's expecting me to email her my availability next week so "she can see what can be done." She wants to take photos to send to the manufacturer. (Let me remind you that she already inspected this stuff at the shipper and again when she "installed" it, so either she knew about the defects and hoped that I wouldn't notice them OR she didn't notice the defects in which case she has a lousy eye and just doesn't care.)

I couldn't help myself and left a message on her cell about an hour ago. I told her that I was disappointed that she hadn't called me when she got back from Mexico, that she knew how upset we were but she hadn't made this a priority. We are upset that now we have to wait until next week. I asked her to stop by our house on her way home. I also mentioned that we hadn't changed our position, that this was something between her and her manufacturer, that we just wanted our money back and we wanted to move on. I also said something like I have no idea what is going on--meaning I don't understand how this could be happening, but I'm sure she won't understand it that way.

So I still have my photos but haven't shared them with her yet. I'm so tempted to throw one of these chairs into my car and knock on her front door.

Our new designer said that I should demand from her a copy of the paper that I signed agreeing that this furniture is not returnable. And even if I did sign that paper, this stuff is still returnable because of its substandard quality and the wrong finish.

I keep hoping that we'll get our money back but then I think she's going to fight very hard.

Meg, You said it about 25 posts ago - don't email any more and don't email the pictures. You've left the cell message. Now wait til she gets back and then next week, if you haven't heard from her call her again and again until you speak with her. Then if she agrees to come over to look at and take this furniture away, good. If she doesn't agree, tell her you will be delivering it to her yourself and be definite with a time and day you'll be bringing it. And don't back down from expecting a full refund. Period - no more, no less.

Your situation is at a point where emails clearly aren't working. In fact, they are allowing her to look like she's paying attention to you but, it reality, she's not resolving anything.

Good luck.

Meg, what a nightmare! Sounds like you are spending untold amounts of time and energy dealing with this, and that is so frustrating.

But, I have the same question that dgmarie raises:

"1. did you specifically ask her to order the Kreiss brand of furniture?

or

did you just send her a photo, tell her you wanted something "like this" or "kreiss style."

You responded:

"This designer used to work for Kreiss but doesn't any longer.

So she told me to go to Kreiss, look at and sit one their stuff, because she can order the same furniture directly from the manufacturer. (FYI, she still says that she ordered it from the Kreiss supplier and that it is exactly the same as what I sat on at Kreiss so there's no argument there.

The invoices called it Capri, like Kreiss does, but there are no model numbers."

Without disagreeing that the furniture you got is clearly not made very well, I keep having the sense that you were, through this designer, attempting to order something brand name using a sort of gray-market discount plan. The logic of getting high end furniture from the 'same manufacturer' (ie the brand name furniture itself) at a fraction of the cost...well, to me that doesn't seem like something a logical buyer could or would think reasonable. It would be as if you could just go to Ethan Allen then call up someone and they would order it directly from China at half price. If that was so easily done why would any company even bother to market their line at the 'real' price?

I hope this doesn't sound like bashing but it has been puzzling me throughout this conversation. There seems to be outrage that you didn't get Kreiss furniture. But you didn't order or pay for Kreiss furniture. Sounds like you got taken by a shady operator who spun a fairy tale (I can get you this stuff directly from the manufacturer etc etc). If she had said she got a designer discount *from Kreiss* that might have been a different matter. But I think dgmarie is right. On the facts of the matter I can't see how a court would find that you were defrauded. You can't bring in photos of Kreiss furniture to compare because that isn't what you bought when all is said and done. You bought knock-offs.

I do hope this designer responds to your concerns and addresses your issues, though it doesn't sound promising. I fear she is heading down exactly the path above, ie 'you got just what I promised you', meaning knock off furniture at a knock off price.

Ann

I don't see how the furniture could be declared a "knock off" if it was supposed to be ordered from the *same* manufacturer. Maybe I'm just missing something here, but my impression is that Meg just thought she was getting the *same* furniture but at a lower price (not discounted) because they were cutting out the middle man (retailer) and going directly to the manufacturer.

Unfortunately, my reaction after following this saga is to believe that nothing short of very abrupt action will make this designer finally get off her a$$ and address the problem. Returning the furniture to her is a great first step; and if she still delays in the refund, then suing her is next. I understand, Meg, that you don't want to go that route (really, no one does) but your designer is apparently a master at procrastination and avoidance. Since she pulled this off sucessfully with you since December she already has an impression that she can walk all over you. Sorry.

learn_as_i_go wrote it for me, that this designer is dilly-dallying and, it reads to my eye, playing with you a bit. The fact that she didn't get back to you when she was home (in between her trips) and that she keeps asking you the same questions, the questions you've just answered (repeatedly) makes me think she's sketchy and taking advantage of you ....

I would NOT return the furniture to her without all kinds of official documentation, because then she might think "great! Since I obviously don't have an ethical bone in my body now I have this lousy furniture and their money!"

I hate, I really hate to say this, but I think you need some legal representation / advice. This is dragging on too long and she is clearly showing you that you are not that important to her, that your issues with the furniture are not important to her, and making the situation right is not at all important to her.

It appears that she is using the word "custom" when she means "made to order" -- as we all know, big difference. She is now slipping all these "we"s in there (about the finish, for one) when you know (and hopefully still have that e-mail) you specified "rust," not her "cruddy rust."

I feel so bad for you. I feel SO bad for you to have to deal with this. I am also really proud of how you are dealing with this.

runninginplace,

Since the designer herself has already stated that she had promised me furniture from the Kreiss supplier, and that's what she provided me, isn't any kind of gray-market or knock-off argument moot? She set up the expectation that we were going to receive Kreiss furniture directly from the manufacturer.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that kind of thing goes on all the time. My mother used to own a store and she would allow certain people to buy things at the wholesale price without the markup.

Learn as I go explained it well: we were relying on her expertise and contacts to cut out the middle man. She reps that line. Nothing gray market or knock off about it.

Not surprisingly, FD didn't stop by our house last night. And I understand everyone's great comments about her delay tactics but I must be a glutton for punishment because I can't let it go, and especially not for a week.

The question now, though, is this: If we wait for her to come back into town, take photos, send photos to the manufacturer, etc., then we're playing right into her hands.

Instead, I think providing her the comparison photos right now cuts down the delay. So why shouldn't I send her the photos?

I have been reading this and this is my take.

I would guess your designer didn't on purpose order inferior products for you. However, that seems to be the case. I would think from her response, she's also conflict avoidant and is hoping if you live with the furniture for awhile, you'll just learn to keep it.

I'm sure it's not a simple process for her to go through to contact the manufacturer and return it etc.

That said, I really don't see why you can't email her the pictures. She's going to probably need to email photos to the manufacturer to get a return authorization, so why not provide them for her?

I had a similar situation with my Bernhardt leather sectional. Several of the cushions were showing odd wear on the leather - the color was wearing off. I called the place I ordered the furniture from, and they asked me to email them photos because that is what Bernhardt requires to illustrate the problem. I did so, they sent the photos to the manufacturer and new cushion covers were ordered and shipped to me.

I'd rather she spend her time tracking down a resolution to the issue than standing on my patio listening to me rant about how unhappy I was. If she doesn't respond after you email the photos, I'd contact a lawyer and have them draft a letter or make a call to her. That should get her attention and let her know you mean business. But, why delay matters by making her come onsite other than to make you feel better? Yes, if she was a professional and if nothing else had a conscience, she would come to your home and reassure you that she would make this right. She's not those things, you've found a new designer, you now just want to get this resolved. Send her the photos!

Thanks Carole,

I think you're right that she didn't order inferior products on purpose but the whole thing is so odd. I still don't understand how she could have inspected the various pieces and not seen the problems.

I think I will send the photos for the reasons you stated. Otherwise we're facing additional delay until she can make time for us in her busy schedule.

I would love a return authorization, but not an exchange. The designer said that the manufacturer stands behind his product, implying that he will make it right.

But it's not like this is an easy fix. The problems are the result of his manufacturing process (mostly sloppy welding), so I am not confident he'll suddenly be able to make it better or neater.

It's not like we changed our minds. This is substandard stuff and we want to return it. End of discussion.

Dropping in with my .02 again.
The very fact that this is still persisting is insanity on everyones part. Upon inspection if I had determined that I received an inferior product I would have loaded up my truck and dropped it on the "designers" doorstep.
I don't understand why this is going on like it is.
Clearly the "designer" is playing games- the "wait long enough and tire out the client" game. It still sounds as if the "designer" is calling the shots and it's been well over a week!

I would email the photos and tell her you want to return the furniture - you do not want replacements.

If the manufacturer refuses to refund your money and your only recourse is to get new furniture or lose your money, I would then document in detail the specifications of the pieces you want with pictures.

If you could get the furniture in the condition and sizing that you originally expected would you want it then?

I know you're upset and now you don't want to deal with this manufacturer, but keep an open mind. The manufacturer really only owes you furniture that was ordered from him in a high quality, finish perfect condition.

At this point, the manufacturer - other than providing initally shoddy furniture, hasn't been given the opportunity to make things right, so even in the courts, I think they would side with him. Especially since you don't have any paperwork that says you can return the furniture for a full refund.

Ask for the refund, but be mentally prepared that you might be stuck with getting new furniture, but you should expect it to be manufactured at the same quality level as any retail Kreiss furniture - if this really is the same manufacturer that makes Kreiss. If your designer is using a knock off manufacturer, then you have a bigger problem because you will probably have to sue her to get your money back, and that could cost more in legal fees than what the furniture cost.

So, don't go there yet, email the pictures and ask for a refund and then go from there.

Yes, Miles, I know this is insanity. But what choice do I have? Had I known she was in town, I might have delivered it to her door step, but it's too late now.

Carole, those are all interesting points. But my agreement was with the designer, not the manufacturer. And it appears that the designer did two things wrong: she ordered the wrong finish AND she bought the furniture from a manufacturer who has a substandard manufacturing process. The manufacturer does not know how to do this correctly, and I doubt he'll learn how to make it correctly in the next few weeks. We've already waited eight months. We don't want to wait another few months only to find that his production process is the same shoddy process. This is not an easy fix.

As far as the paperwork goes, I think the onus is on the designer to produce something that I signed, agreeing that the furniture was not returnable. And there is no such paper.

But I am going to send the photos to her, and will tell her that our position remains the same.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I would be contacting a lawyer by now. For what I'm guessing you paid for the furniture, it would be well worth it.

I agree entirely with anele and rmkitchen. A lawyer will be able to clear things up for you -- i.e., what can you legally demand from her -- and will intimidate her nicely.

FD's husband is an attorney specializing in plaintiff's personal injury. I wonder if she has run the facts past him.

Me again, the skunk at the picnic, the fly in the ointment, the squeak in the shoe...ok, enough with the dumb analogies!

But, Meg I'm really truly confused. You responded to my first comments, about knock-offs etc. with this:

"Since the designer herself has already stated that she had promised me furniture from the Kreiss supplier, and that's what she provided me, isn't any kind of gray-market or knock-off argument moot? She set up the expectation that we were going to receive Kreiss furniture directly from the manufacturer."

But then you say this:

"And it appears that the designer did two things wrong: she ordered the wrong finish AND she bought the furniture from a manufacturer who has a substandard manufacturing process. The manufacturer does not know how to do this correctly, and I doubt he'll learn how to make it correctly in the next few weeks."

So it sounds like you are saying that the Kreiss manufacturer has a substandard manufacturing process, since supposedly that was who was making the furniture? Or are you saying you recognize that you weren't ordering from Kreiss, aka 'the same manufacturer'?

Very confusing; aside from receiving substandard merchandise do you think she should provide you with *real* Kreiss, or do you think what you now say is a subpar manufacturer should provide you with perfect imitation Kreiss, or some form of Kreiss but without actually being marketed from Kreiss? I assume from what you've written you basically want your money back-which I think is exactly what should happen, no question.

I know, I'm inviting a virtual conk on the head. But I'm really truly puzzled about this situation.

Ann

I suggested eight days ago that you get a lawyer and get it on letterhead. You're spinning your wheels and the "designer" is probably just hoping she can wear you down. Enough already. Get a professional.

I spoke with my lawyer today and I just can't tell you how great it feels to have someone who does this for a living on my side! I just can't do it alone. Not my job.

And if you're confused, RIP, imagine the field day the ex-"designer" is having? She obviously has meg jumping through hoops while taking care of other clients. Self-employment has it's benefits, eh?
Seriously Meg, your chain is being yanked by someone who is all but telling you that YOU need to prove to HER why you aren't happy. If that isn't the tail wagging the dog I don't know what is.
SHE (the ex-"designer") needs to prove to YOU (meg) that it is the same exact finish, quality and manufacturer. SHE needs to provide the paper trails & the comparison piece. In my opinion, the completely wrong person is on the defense about this- and it isn't the ex-"designer".

As for the whole lawyer thing- I disagree about the advantages although I have no idea what you really paid for the furniture you have. One has to weigh the cost of pursuing legal action against the cost of replacing the furniture & the time it'll take. I predict that you could recoup half or more your cost of the furniture from a private sale or even through craigslist.

I could have this wrapped up in less than 2 hours:

1) Post an ad in the paper, cl or both to get rid of the furniture you don't want.

2) Call & e-mail the ex-"designer" and tell her to hit bricks. Tell you you no longer wish to speak or see her and that you will be telling EVERYONE you know about your experience. Tell her you intend to contact the BBB and file a formal complaint. If she is a licensed ID you can also file a complaint with her professional affiliation. All of that could be easily done in under 30 minutes on line.

Done.

Now all you have to do is use your time to sell the stuff rather than fight with the ex-"designer" over it. If you pursue legal action she could dig herself in for the long haul and you might not see this resolved for several months. Is that what you want? How much are you willing to spend and give up to make the ex-"designer" do the right thing?

Use this as a learning experience to carry through your relationship with your new designer.

At this point, I agree with Amy, Meg. She should have been at your house pronto, expressed her horror at the substandard quality, arranged to have it removed, and cut you a check. Within 24 hours. She's yanking your chain. Don't be "nice." Have a lawyer send her a letter.

Do you have a consumer protection division of your local government? Is your designer licensed by any organization? Is there a consumer affairs reporter on your local TV or radio station? I suggest you contact all of them ASAP.

Meg's already told us that this woman is now in Canada. I hope she's having a nice vacation, if that's what she's doing.
I know when I go on vacation, I leave ALL, and I mean ALL, worries behind (unless it involves family). So, yes, I agree that you're getting yanked around, too. But the sad part is that you seem to have set yourself up for it.

Okay everyone. I don't need you all beating me up, too!!

I don't think I set myself up for this. I have been putting into effect the "broken record" technique that others urged when I first posted this problem. True, it seems like I am constantly repeating myself to her, but I am just reiterating my position: we want it to be picked up and get a refund. She has been away so I can't expect her to drop everything for this.

Don't forget that I'm trying to be civil, too, since this is someone I will see socially forever after in this small town. And, yes, I realize that she doesn't seem to be concerned about that at all, but then I must be a nicer person--and I'm ethical, too.

running: you have posed the question correctly. I am confused as to how this happened and don't have an explanation. She promised furniture from the Kreiss supplier, which in my mind was furniture of the same quality as that displayed at Kreiss. Had she delivered furniture from another supplier that was still of Kreiss quality, that would have been fine. I'm not sure how she managed to get furniture fron the Kreiss supplier that is so lousy. So either this isn't the Kreiss supplier OR it is and he has changed his production processes, or employees, or something, so that his furniture now stinks.

I don't want this manufacturer to do anything more for us. We want our money back. It's been way too long a wait.

I will not call an attorney yet. I am waiting for her to respond to the photos. But if necessary, I will contact the BBB, her design associations, and the State Attorney General. I will also tell everyone I know AND set up a display at the end of our driveway and on our car, etc. I'm not going to let this go.

The designer did not "deliberately" order substandard furniture. However, she "deliberately" ordered it from a manufacturer she has dealt with before and who she knows is not the same quality Meg was expecting. She "deliberately" had the furniture delivered when Meg was not home, and she "deliberately" has used delaying tactics and outright lies to avoid a face to face discussion.

She knew when she ordered it that it was substandard. She knew when it arrived that it would not suit you.
She knew you were angry.
She is now avoiding you like the plague.

Small town or not, everyone understands the alpha dog analogy. Take a video of the furniture, with closeups of the problem areas. Reiterate your point in a note: The furniture is not acceptable. Here it is. and leave the furniture on her patio. Do this while she is gone.... perhaps she'll be as surprised as you were.

Ditto what kswl said.

Meg: You're being jerked around. I understand your concerns, but you're helping her to back you into a corner. Standing up for yourself has nothing to do--in this instance--with being "ethical" or "nice." Just something to think about.

Meg- no one here is beating you up. We are all living this frustrating situation vicariously through you and sharing with you the individual methods we would each deal with it.

But the NICE ship has sailed.

I can assure you that your ex-designer isn't running around town telling everyone what a fabulous customer you are. She's telling all her friends, family and associates what a complete b tch you are for questioning her design & business integrity.

You'll do what you feel you need to, meg. But the bottom line is that as long as little Miss Ex-"designer" keeps making you jump through her hoops, she's already got you beat.

(((Meg))) I was so hoping your issue would be resolved by now and you would be doing a happy dance!
Nan

Meg, I'm not getting on your case or beating you up. It's just that from what you've told all of us, you've spent over 1 week now working on drafting/writing "perfect" emails so that you will be viewed as a nice person with her and in town. In the process, time has elapsed (which works against you) and from your comments it now seems that the door is definitely open for her to keep treating you like a doormat...the foolish little client who is a bit misguided and angry. And now she's out of the country.

At this point, I'd quit being nice. Instead take the bull by the horns and stand up for yourself.

The truth has a lot of power, won't bite you in the butt and spells it out for the designer. I'd email or phone with something along these lines;

You know Susie, this is getting ridiculous and the last thing I want is an ongoing problem with you since our worlds are small and connected. We're unsatisfied with this product and the way you seem to be putting us off since we told you of the problem. I'd love it if you simply picked up the furniture, refunded our money and took it upon yourself to work this out with the manufacturer since they are your source. Then we can all look each other in the eye in the future. Alternatively, DH and I feel the need for legal representation and what an uncomfortable solution that will be for all of us. Let's get this handled.

It's not b*tchy, there's no hyperbole or justifying language and it's not wishy washy, either. It clearly spells out the either/or and lays that in her lap. Then you have to have the cajones to follow through.

Hi all,

I know you're not trying to beat me up, and have only my best interests in mind. You have all been so generous with your time and I do appreciate reading your different methods of getting this taken care of.

dlm: I love that note and will wait another day or two before using it. As alternatives, I may mention other remedies in the note in addition to hiring a lawyer. (DH woke me up this morning telling me to "Get Jessie" the local consumer advocate on one of the major TV channels.)

She's not taking me or this situation seriously. Her agreement to me was to provide furniture just like the furniture I saw at Kreiss, and she hasn't lived up to that agreement.

At the installation, she either knew the stuff was not good quality and hoped that I wouldn't notice or know any better, OR she didn't know that it was not good quality, in which case she's not the expert with the discerning eye that she holds herself out to be. Or maybe she didn't inspect it at all. Either way, this is something she has to work out with the manufacturer and take us out of the loop.

Thanks again everyone.

Meg: As it is now October, I am wondering how it all worked out.

I was searching for the Kreiss Capri collection online and came upon this forum. Very interesting... how did it all turn out?

I'm still curious how this turned out. I typed in "Kreiss Capri" on the internet looking for a photo and your thread came up. I'm a designer and very familiar with Kreiss as I've been dealing with them for years. I think the wrong finish was ordered. I noticed you mentioned a finish called "cruddy rust" which is a Kreiss finish for an indoor coffee table. The finsih Kreiss uses for most of their outdoor is just called "powdercoat rust" which is a solid finish that really is more charcoal (dull black) in color. The welding marks on the back (referring to your photo) is very common with Kreiss outdoor but it did look worse on your chair. The jagged arm on your chair is really bad, not Kreiss quality. There is definitely very strong similarities though, so close it's almost as though "the new guy" at the same factory was in charge of making this. Designer may have been telling the truth, but just got a bad batch by someone who thought this was "good enough" for a customer who was not Kreiss if you know what I mean.