outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

We bought outdoor furniture through our designer back in December. Rather than our ordering it from a local chi-chi store, she said she could order it directly from the manufacturer. It was half what it would have been had I ordered it from the store so it seemed like a no-brainer. (Ha!)

The summer is almost over and the furniture is finally here now (another loooonng story). I know that I can be picky but there is just no way this stuff is from the same manufacturer. The store's furniture has a uniform finish, and the welds were neatly done. Very elegant furniture. This furniture has a streaky finish with very messy welds. Some are even sharp and ragged. I'm tempted to go to the store and "borrow" one of their display chairs to show her the contrast but I'm afraid I'll get arrested. This whole thing has been quite the lesson.

The design of the chairs is different, too. And the dimensions. The lounge chairs are so deep that even I, at a little over 5'9", can't sit comfortably. My feet barely reach the ground.

I've paid in full for the furniture, have waited months for it and I am very unhappy. Even at half-price, they were expensive. They don't look nice; they look sloppy and cheap.

I haven't said anything to the designer yet. I'm mulling it over because I don't know what to say without sounding picky, angry and insulting. My throat is closing up from the anxiety because I hate this kind of confrontation.

Thanks for reading this far and for letting me vent. If anyone has a calm way to say this to the designer, I'm all ears.

Wow - I would be so upset, too! You are right to take a few minutes to collect your thoughts before talking to the designer.

I think the way you have presented it here is very clear. Don't speak to her "personally" - keep it all about the furniture. Not, "You didn't get the right furniture - this stuff looks sloopy and cheap" but instead "I am seriously disappointed in the quality of the furniture. The finish is streaky, the welds are sharp and ragged. " As a backup, go to the store and take photos of the finish, the welds, and also pics of you sitting in the chair. Stick to the facts, and you'll be fine. At the end, ask for what you want, not "what can we do about this" but "I want you to return this furniture for a full discount".

Please don't settle for anything less than you expected, or wait too long to remedy the situation. I've done that TOO many times. The momentary feeling of being uncomfortable as you talk to the designer is nothing compared to the aggravation you'll feel for years if you keep the furniture and say nothing! Although I know you've been waiting forever for the furniture, keep things in perspectrive - it's not the end of the world if you have to wait a few more months.

Breathe deeply. Remember - this is not your fault.

In your situation I wouldn't hesitate being picky, angry and insulting.
Just ask her if she's aware that the furniture is not the same as the store and then I'd ask just who she ordered from. Let her know you're unhappy...........you paid her to order a specfic brand of furniture and apparently that's not what happend. If she's been to the local store and knows what the quality of the merchandise should be, then there's no need to prove anything by showing her a contrast.
Sounds like a knock-off manufacturer that didn't do a very good job. I'd send it back and start over with someone else.

"I haven't said anything to the designer yet."

That is perhaps your biggest mistake. The longer you mull it over, the harder it will be for your "designer" to do anything about it much less care to. Silence is acceptance.
As with your other post it seems the biggest issue for you is the inevitable confrontation. My partner has the same issue, but I don't. So in our family, it's my "job" to handle the face-to-face situations that might otherwise escalate into some uncomfortable territory. Perhaps your husband can step up in the same manner?
Obviously, if you received a cheap knock-off version of what you really wanted there is a big problem. The more I hear about the work your "designer" does the less I'd be inclined to be nice anymore much less calm.

If it were me (and I know it's not) I would tell your designer that:
A) What you are about to discuss with her is not up for debate.
B) You believe the furniture you received is NOT the same as was promised.
C) I would tell her to either get what you asked for in a timely fashion or refund the check.
Period.
End of story.
I would interupt any attempt to justify, explain or dismiss your concerns and remind her that there is no room for discussion. The worst she can do is tell you to go jump in a lake at which point I would start investigation legal recourse.

Thanks for your comments everyone. I just came back from my second visit to the store. I took photos, too, but it's so obviously not the same quality. The furniture that I have has a more rustic quality, and I use that term as a euphemism to mean it has many imperfections.

I am going to email her with my concerns. This furniture was delivered last week while I was out of town, and I returned late Sunday night. So it has only been a few days. The dining table hasn't been delivered yet and I'm sure we'll have a problem with my "pedestal base with legs."

Thanks again.

"I am going to email her with my concerns."

Seriously? Hasn't she already told you there is an issue with her receiving e-mails (and responding promptly)?
No- you need to call her, find out where she is and, if reasonable, track her down for a meeting in-person. Get it out and over with so that you (both) can move on. Certainly time spent taking pictures of the other furniture (a wasted effort in my opinion) could have been time addressing your concerns in person.

Also, you're already anticipating problems with more unfinished business. Assuming this is with the same "designer" I'm gonna bet your unfinished business is gonna have the same results.

I don't mean to come across harshly, but you need to be a lot more direct and involved in your project. Time to chop this tree down (because you are well past nipping it in the bud) and take control. So far, it sounds like your "designer" is in charge.

I agree with Miles. You need to set up a face to face meeting with her. If you get a email or phone call - you can easily put it off. Some business can be handled that way but when it comes down to it - face to face is best.

I probably would go buy a piece of the set you wanted on approval for the meeting so she can SEE herself what your talking about. Set out your photos - side by side for her to show you have proof.

I am so sorry you have to go through this. Your house is so pretty & I know it will be all worth it in the end!!

Positive side - when you can return your furniture - it is now end of the season sale time for patio furniture:) Maybe you can get a better deal on better quality.

Smiles:)

Oh Miles, you are so right. I guess doing it by email is the passive/aggressive way to handle it but I know that when I get this upset, I can't think or speak clearly. I have this "ocean" of blood pounding through my head and ears. And doing it by email leaves a paper trail of sorts.

The last time I phoned her (to avoid the back-and-forth of emails), she didn't call me back so, after three days, I had to email her anyway.

I'm starting this whole thing with a defeatist attitude because I know she's going to tell me that it's not returnable.

Sorry, I just saw your response, too. (I'm a slow typer.) I better just bite the bullet and call her. It can't be worse than how I feel right now anyway.

That's a good idea about the chair but I don't think they'll sell it to me. That's why I had said I might "borrow" it, but I'd risk getting arrested.

Wish me luck!

"I know she's going to tell me that it's not returnable."

The answer is that you're not returning anything you bought. You're returning the wrong item ordered by your "designer". There's a big difference. Your "designer" (please, oh pretty please post her website) needs to eat it if it is indeed the wrong item- or a cheap knock-off you didn't want in the first place.

Miles is so right.

You told her what you wanted. She had delivered something else. You WILL get your money back either from the company she used or from her, and SHE needs to see to that. This is her error, and don't let her weasel her way out of it. You paid her for a service that she did not provide.
If she balks, I'd be tempted to throw one of the chairs into a vehicle, along with her, race over to the retailer that has what you wanted and point out the disparity.

I realize that you don't want it to be awkward later, since you see her around. But it is too late for that. YOU will always feel dissatisfied. I don't think she should go on her merry way, thinking everything is hunky-dory when you are still steaming about how she handled your business.

Meg, I have been following this story and I am really sorry you have had to go through all this mess. I'm not sure how much money is involved here, but I imagine it is a sizable chunk of change. Do you have a family lawyer? I think that if you cannot get satisfaction, and soon, you should consider a quick and threatening letter on your attorney's letterhead. That might be all it takes...a big stick, as it were. There can be comfort in having someone else getting tough for you. You can ask me how I know, but I am not at liberty to discuss. ;-)

Oh, wow, I didn't realize this was part of an ongoing saga with this designer. Guess I missed some posts! Definitely, now is the time to be very direct. I was once told, in a somewhat similar situation, to go at it from all directions - call, email and send a certified (or is it registered???) letter, so that you have covered all of the bases. Use the same "script" in all correspondence. Let her know that you are extremely disatisfied, give examples why, state the solution you expect, and give the date/time you expect the problem to be resolved.

She knows she's in the wrong, or she'd be responding much more quickly.

Oh boy, how frustrating and bizarre. All the responses, different that they might be, sound very good to me.

Please don't blame yourself, Meg. All you did was order and you are in your perfect right and expectation to get the same exact set, and with the same high quality finish and detailing as you selected. Maybe it's possible the designer didn't know it wasn't the same mfr & quality or somehow the supplier is at fault? As in, when she sees it, there will be no question. Regardless, since it's not, there shouldn't be a return issue at all. It seems very clearly not what you ordered, sitting right there, esp if the dimensions and styling are different as well. How much proof does it take? It's her job to figure it out -- and not on your dime. (I think the markups are supposed to cover resolving issues along the way. Too bad for her if you will be repurchasing elsewhere on this one, though.) And btw, your time is valuable too.

If anyone should feel uncomfortable in the social situations you're concerned about, it should be her.

Hope it all works out.

I don't like confrontation either but dislike someone taking advantage of me more. You need to call her and note the time. If she doesn't call you back in a reasonable amount of time call her again. That is not what you wanted and you want it gone and your money back pronto. End of decision. Stay firm on it as it is YOUR money and she didn't save you any if she didn't order the correct item or tried to pass off a knock off. You have a right to be picky because it is your money and you should get what you wanted.

I remember your previous post, did you ever post pictures? Can we see it. I feel your pain and feel bad you are in an uncomfortable situation. But I would tell her face to face pointing out the sloppy workmanship.

I'm sorry Meg. I'm sorry this has all taken so long, and sorry it has turned out so badly. But now, you need to get over your worries and anxieties about confrontation and Handle this Issue.

I would absolutely write a letter to the designer, outlining all the issues you have put so well here. And then, I would stamp it, put it in the mail and pick up the phone. Tell her machine (since she may not answer) that it is you, that you have just seen the new furniture, have checked out the original at the store, and that there has been a mistake. End by telling her you need her to call you as soon as possible. When you speak to her, again, tell her what you've said here. If necessary for your equilibrium, write out a list of what you need to say so you can check it off as you go. Let her know that it is all outlined in a letter you have sent to her. (Make a copy of the letter and send it registered mail.)

STOP thinking that she's.......

1.Going to be angry....
2.Going to tell you it's too late to return
3.Not going to fix this

You do need to stay as calm as possible, be as direct as possible, and let her know that not only is this furniture NOT acceptable, but if the table she has ordered has similar issues, you are going to refuse delivery of that. Also tell her that you have conferred with others and the general consensus is, that this job is taking absolutely too long. Ask her how she plans to rectify the situation. If you have a partner, husband, sister, or good friend who can be with you when you meet with her, all the better.

Dear Abby used to say that you can only be a doormat if you lie down at the door. Don't lie down at the door, Meg. You don't have to be a piranha, you don't need to say mean things, you don't need to make accusations. But you DO need to tell her that you are done with waiting and you are not keeping or paying for, this latest problem. And you need to stick to your guns. Be kind, by all means. But be firm.

Red

Thank you for all your responses and for your support. I've discussed it with DH and he's all in favor of sending it back and getting our money back, assuming the designer will agree to that. Surprisingly, he thinks that the letter should NOT be detailed because that only invites discussion or argument.

I like the idea about sending a registered letter and an email. A friend has suggested I ask for our money back within ten days. Sounds like a plan to me.

Call me obsessive but I'm still sitting here drafting my script and/or email. I'm waffling between giving the specifics vs. just stating the problem in general terms so as not to invite discussion or argument.

During this process, I've reviewed all the emails from the designer and found an interesting email in which she refers to the furniture as "Kreiss style."

I never zeroed in on that phrase before as I was always led to believe that she was getting the furniture from the manufacturer who supplies Kreiss. But no matter. This stuff we have received is not Kreiss style. It is, at best, in improperly made knock-off.

Okay, back to the drafting.

as others have stated above, just write a direct letter, such as,

we want our money back, the furniture is not acceptable, please call ASAP so we can resolve this, etc.. "This stuff we have received is not Kreiss style. It is, at best, in improperly made knock-off."

don't spend more time on drafting, just send it, lol............

Here's the draft email to our designer:

Dear ____________,

I have to tell you that we are completely frustrated and upset by what has transpired with regard to our outdoor furniture. First we had the lengthy delay, and now we find that the furniture you have delivered is clearly not what we had ordered.

I won't go through the list of problems. Suffice it to say that we ordered and were promised furniture with the finish, details and quality of the Kreiss Capri collection. That is not what we received. Clearly this furniture did not come from the manufacturer who supplies Kreiss. It is not even a good quality knock-off from a different manufacturer. It is far from Kreiss-style: the welds and joints show sloppy workmanship, the legs are uneven, and the finish is streaky and dirty-looking. It is simply unacceptable.

We are not satisfied with, nor are we happy with what was delivered, and do not want to keep it. We would appreciate your scheduling a pick-up and arranging a full refund of our money within the next ten days.

**********************************************

My sister (the pro of people management) thinks that I shouldn't do it by email. She thinks I should call the designer to schedule an appointment, at our house, so that we can discuss why we are dissatisfied with the furniture. While I like that idea in general, I don't think there's any way the designer will be able to fix all that is wrong with this furniture. She is obviously using a manufacturer with a lower standard of quality and I don't think they'll be able to change their manufacturing process so satisfy me.

Meg, you are over-thinking this. Push the send button on that e-mail. Give her until this afternoon to respond to your e-mail, if she doesn't, call her.

Nancy

good job, letter is clear !!

Give her a deadline in your email, as stated by redsox, to respond to your email.
such as,"Please respond to this email by the end of business Friday, August 8, 2008 with the scheduled pick up date and immediately forward the full refund in the amount of $XXXX.XX to (your address if paid by check - or credit issued to your Credit card)"
It looks like you are giving her10 days to get back to you.
Also, leave a voicemail for her to check her email for importatnt information regarding your order, just to avoid her saying she never got the email.
Also, I may have missed it - but if you paid by credit card, immediately contact them in writing of your need to dispute this charge. ( Another reason to purchase furniture by credit card - esp when ordering.)

the idea is to have the designer on your side, fighting for you not against you .... you need to give her a chance to dobg--- i would strongly recommend you include a line "I invite you to come inspect the furniture,as I am certain that you would not want your name and reputation attached to such poor quality goods." etc.

I sent the proposed email to DH (who is away on business). The new plan is that I am going to schedule a meeting with the designer so that DH and I can discuss the problems with the furniture that has already been delivered.

I think that incorporates your comment jen9. (What is dobg? Or is that a typo?)

I just sent an email to the designer:

Hi _____________,
I've returned from New York and am disappointed with the outdoor furniture that you delivered while I was out of town. I'd like to set up a time for us to discuss this in person, at our home. Please let me know when you're available so that I can check DH's schedule.
Thanks,
meg

Once you send the email she will probabaly call you right away on the phone. Extend an invitation to come out to your house to inspect the furniture herself because you are confident once she sees it she'll agree it is not what you ordered. If she tells you these pieces cannot be returned (often the case when you are buying counterfeit) then tell her to take them and she can eat the cost. Let this be a lesson to her never to buy a product from unreputable sources.

I'll tell you my experience having landscape contractors order products on my behalf. I was told the price was wholesale. HA! Wholesale to HIM maybe...but after he got through tacking on his markup the price was the same as the nursery. I wasn't as upset about that as the awful specimins that were delivered. A year later I'm still trying to prune three triple-tiered topiaries into something half-way decent. They'll never look as good as the ones they sell at SumWinds...a nursery would have had more sense than I had and reject anything that came in looking as bad as these did.

I like your latest decision. Just schedule a meeting and let her know it's to discuss your disappointment in the recently delivered furniture.
Having everyone in the same room is the best approach!

Must admit I cringed when I saw the Kreiss name! :) I had a bad experience with them years ago when they delivered a white sofa and it had visual signs of sun damage. I purchased a sofa off the floor and it was in perfect shape, but it wasn't the sofa that was delivered. They offered no return or replacement. Luckily I had written a check so I put a stop on it, but I did have to pay for pick-up charges.......something I was glad to pay to get it out of my home!

Wow. That was fast. Here is her response:

Hi Meg: You are disappointed with the furniture? Please let me know what your expectations were and how they differ (other than the fabric (new covers being which made locally- I have to wait to receive all items to finalize my insurance claim). Please be specific about the furniture and I would be pleased to meet with you.

Regards,
________________

I'm happy you received such a prompt response, meg! Perhaps this is a good sign.
I could be nit-picky about the verbage- the defensive posture- but then I'm not suprised. You've gathered your facts and information and made your conclusion. However, it IS NOT your job to defend or otherwise justify your position. You're the client- and a dissappointed one at that! This "designer" should be pulling rabbits outta her ass to make you happy since she already has your money.

Meg- you sound like such a kind and accommodating person- the kind who just wants everyone to be happy and satisfied. Don't let this type A personality wannabe push you around. We're all on your side.

What were your expectations? Ha ha. How about, I expected to receive the furniture I ordered.

There is one more possibility.

I have become aware of some name brand furniture stores, who have their pieces now made overseas, that put a pristine example on the floor. Then when you go to order, what you recieve is a much poorer version. Same model...but a piece of junk.

It could be that you did, in fact, get the furniture you ordered, just not the quality you expected.

Meg, take a deep breath and let some of the stress go. Then practice the "broken record" technique. Keep repeating over and over what you expect her to do. If she says it is not returnable you say I want my money back. If she says there is nothing she can do you say, I want my money back. Do not let her tell she can't do that. Think of a couple of different ways to respond that all mean "I expect a full refund". If she sees you cave even a little then you will not get what you want. In social situations I tend to be introverted but when it comes to negotiations (even buying new cars) DH defers to me because I am tireless in using this method and if you don't flinch it can be very effective. Be assertive without being emotional. We are behind you 100%!

Miles, before I respond I'm not sure I understand your post. Whose verbage are you being nit-picky about? I haven't even told her any facts yet, just that I'm disappointed. I was waiting for our face-to-face meeting to show her everything but it sounds like she wants specifics first. And, yes, I have that horrible need to "try to make everyone happy." Except when I was working; then I was a shark.

LOL redsox. You must have been reading my mind. I would love to say that, although the reality is that I will probably say that I expected to receive furniture similar to the Kreiss Capri collection in quality, appearance, design and comfort--and then give her specifics.

I don't think that's the case Parma. She stated many times that she was getting our furniture directly from the manufacturer, implying that it was the same manufacturer that supplies Kreiss. Turns out that Kreiss does its own manufacturing in San Diego, not Mexico. But I only learned that this morning.

I really don't care who manufactured it. It would be acceptable if it were the same quality and appearance as the furniture I had seen, but it's not.

Nan, I will practice that broken record technique. I'll just have to pretend I'm one of my children. Relentless and perseverating--which, since I'm already obsessing, isn't too far a stretch.

And, now, I have to get ready for a visit from our new designer. Isn't this fun?

I was thinking the same thing, Parma, although that wouldn't alter the dimensions and basic styling. Are there any disclaimers about hand craftsmanship that varies from piece to piece? They always put a great one on display or in the ad, which is why I hate to order. I am particular about those things and what pleases my eye or space, so, like to make those selections myself (rather than having it just pulled out of a hat!)

Sounds like she's already filling out the paperwork. I'd just move forward from there and give her the details, as/when needed.

"...a pristine example on the floor. Then when you go to order, what you recieve is a much poorer version."

Where I come from that is called a bait-n-switch.

"Whose verbage are you being nit-picky about?"

Sorry for not being clear- I was refering to your "designers" verbage in her response. It came across as defensive to me. That is all. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Hi Squirrel,

No disclaimers, basically nothing in writing other than the invoice and lots of emails. I'm the same with regard to what pleases my eye. I know that others love hand-made tile but I can't enjoy it because all I see are the imperfections or differences.

She's filling out the paperwork to file her insurance claim for the damage done during shipping. I don't think that will come into play here but you never know.

:) I adore handmade tile -- but most definitely have to choose or work with it myself!

It was all in the same sentence above, about the claim. Hopefully meaning she's just going to take it off your hands without a fuss : ) I guess her email is a little fuzzy.

So there were damaged items? She needs to stop all other orders from the company ASAP if they haven't been shipped.

I don't see insurance coming into play in this situation and don't let her wait until everything is in to start return and credit on what you now have.

Why is she filing out insurance. Tell her you are not happy with it and expect your money back. From what you said it isn't broken it is just made like cr@p. Please, please stand up for yourself and don't let her take advantage of you because it will eat you up every time you look at the set.

I think she's referring to the insurance that designers take out to cover jobs with losses. Don't know why that precedes a return attempt though.

Quote from Meg above:

She's filling out the paperwork to file her insurance claim for the damage done during shipping. I don't think that will come into play here but you never know.

There was shipping damage done to some of her items.

Yeah- I'm a little confused. Were the items received damaged? Not what you ordered? A combination of both? Wouldn't having the wrong merchandise supercede any damage as it pertains to getting the situation resolved?

I suggest not letting the real issue get lost and stay focused on your intended goal: Getting what you want. Anything the "designer" has to do to make that happen should essentially be invisble to you.

Simple: Meet with her asap. Show her the furniture. Tell her you wish to have the furniture returned, because the quality is substandard and you want your money back. Period. Don't get involved in some long and drawn out conversation, with her trying to convince you that the furniture is just fine, or that your expectations are too high, or any other b.s. State your case, be polite but exceedingly firm. Stare her straight in the eye and refuse to back down. Oh, and smile.

Yup, she needs to get it out of your house asap and process a refund. Whatever else needs to happen is not your concern.

Hi all,

I'm baa-aack! Just had a meeting with our new designer and what a world of difference it is! She actually cares about making me happy! Whoopie! I showed her our outdoor furniture and she said I should be screaming bloody murder. It's definitely not Kreiss quality, just a poorly made knock-off.

To clarify regarding the insurance claim: when the furniture was shipped back in March or April, the shipping company subcontracted with another shipping company, who then threw the furniture onto the truck, thereby damaging about $80,000 worth of furniture, including my pieces. My designer did not tell me this until I pressed her about the delay in late-June. I assumed the insurance claim she's filing is to reimburse her for having to buy the pieces that replaced the damaged pieces, but I haven't gotten involved in that.

Not sure what she's talking about regarding the custom cushions since I thought she had already ordered them for us. The timing is very fishy, to say the least. But that reminds me that I should tell her to stop working on those cushions if they haven't been made yet.

Most of my outdoor furniture was delivered last week, while I was out of town. When I returned, that was when I first discovered that these pieces are inferior knock-offs and not at all what I had ordered or expected.

The only good news is that I was working one room at a time with her and this was going to be the test case. Guess she failed that one. Which is why I'm working with a new designer.

Meg, I don't know if this will boost your confidence or not, but about 10 years ago we purchased new bedroom furniture. When it finally arrived, I was unhappy with the quality, so I called the store manager expecting a run-around. I was pleasantly surprised when he agreed to a full refund with no hassles and no delay. Since he handled it so well, we purchased the next set from the same store and we have been very pleased with it.

If you paid via credit card, you also have that protection in case she doesn't comply to your request for a refund. I'm hoping for the best for you! (I hate confrontation, too, but sometimes it just can't be avoided.)

Thanks hoosiergirl,

Unfortunately, I paid with a check, both times, but your story gives me hope that there's some decency out there.

I'm drafting my email to her right now, the one with my specific complaints. I would dearly love to tell her that this furniture is crap, but I must be civil.

lol, Meg. I came across this short story the other day, via another thread in conversations. On some of those emails we'd like to send -- it's soooo funny.

Sounds great with your new designer! Hope this situation closes soon.

Here is a link that might be useful: Courageous Emails

Too funny, Squirrel. But, um, now that the article is out, isn't the email out, too?

I learned the hard way to have unfinished email addresses on my draft emails--especially on those hastily-written vents that let off steam. DD once went on the computer and sent ALL of my draft emails. As Ricky Ricardo used to say, I had a lot of 'splaining to do.

If I remember right, Meg, all I told the store manager was that I was very unhappy with the quality of the furniture, then I listed the specific things that made me think the quality was lacking. I don't remember if I told him I wanted a refund or if he asked what I wanted, but I do remember that I was impressed that he took care of the problem so easily. I so hope for the same experience for you!!!

Meg, I have the same problem of sorts, but it involves ripping out 3 rooms of new wood flooring. I'm a nicey-nicey type of gal, but there comes a time when you just can't 'play nice' any more. It's when you know you've been taken advanage of! You definintely sound like me and don't want to hurt feelings, make an issue, or sound like a whiny complaining b****. But, guess what? Every now and then you have to summom her(the b****)up and bring her out of hiding, and we ALL have one! Believe me, YOU have one deep inside you, you just need to call her out.

There needn't be any verbal attacks, name calling, or acqusations~it's all done with the tone of your voice and a positive attitude. Get on a roll, and don't stop until you get it all out, and what your expectations are. She needs to know that you are more than just a 'little unhappy'! You can do it!

I'm really surprised hoosiergirl, that that's all it took. That's a very smart manager; by making you happy he encouraged more business.

I can't mislead you patty cakes. I definitely have an inner b*tch, but she's situational. (Just ask our builder's project manager.) I'm realizing just how bad this furniture is and it is feeding that inner b*tch.

Whew! This feels good. Not what I'm going to send but I let it all out. I need to edit it because I don't want to scare her off before our meeting, but I do want her to know that I am serious about this.

Dear ______________,

I wanted to avoid doing this by email because I'm sure that once you see the furniture in person, you will understand our dissatisfaction. But if you want specifics before you will agree to meet with us, then here goes.
In general terms, my expectation was to receive furniture similar in quality, appearance, design and comfort to the Kreiss Capri collection. The furniture that we received is vastly different from the Capri furniture that I had seen at the Kreiss showroom--the same furniture you told me to go look at and to sit in.

When I chose that collection, you said that you were familiar with Kreiss's Capri line. Nevertheless, it might be helpful if, prior to our meeting, you visited the Kreiss showroom yourself so that you can see the patio dining set and see what I was expecting to receive. For starters, look at the edges and note how they are properly sanded. All of the joints and welding points ("slag") have been smoothed down so that they're neat. The Kreiss legs are all even, level and straight. In contrast, the furniture we received shows substandard workmanship with cracks at some of the seams, ragged edges, bumpy lumps of slag and uneven or crooked legs. (The cracks and holes are so bad that water is collecting inside some of our pieces.) Our furniture is sloppy and not well made--definitely not Kreiss-like in quality.

In addition to these serious issues of quality, our furniture's finish is, in a word: hideous. It is streaky and dirty-looking, and practically comes off on your hands. It is not the rust-colored powder coated finish that is on display at Kreiss and that we had specifically discussed.

As far as design and comfort go, the style of our furniture differs from the Kreiss pieces with regard to the actual design and dimensions. For example, the dining chair arms on our set are too low to rest your arms on comfortably. Similarly, our lounge chairs are so high and so deep that even I, at a little over 5'9", cannot sit comfortably in them. My feet barely touch the ground.

I trust that once you examine what we received, you will understand our disappointment and dissatisfaction. What we have received is nowhere near the quality of the pieces we had ordered and expected to receive. Clearly this furniture did not come from the manufacturer that supplies Kreiss--the direct manufacturer to whom you always referred. This furniture did not come from a competent manufacturer. These are shoddy knock-off pieces that from a distance may resemble the Capri line, but they are not comparable in quality, appearance, design or comfort. Not even close.

At this point I am sure you can tell just how upset we are. We waited several months for this outdoor furniture, so long in fact that our precious and short Pacific Northwest summer is almost gone. To wait all this time only to receive such substandard furniture is the final straw.

I am, quite frankly, shocked that you "installed" this type of furniture and deemed it acceptable. It is not acceptable to us, and we do not want to keep it. Unless you can deliver to us pieces comparable to those on display at the Kreiss showroom--and quickly--there is no way that you can rectify this situation other than to remove these pieces from our home and provide an immediate refund of all of our money.

Meg -- I am v. late to this but on your behalf I am FURIOUS with your (former) designer. Ego ego ego, which means she is in the wrong business.

I think your e-mail of this morning is fine as is, except for the final sentence where you suggest you would let her replace the furniture. Don't you just want your money back, the furniture gone and this nut job out of your life? You're starting with a new designer -- work with her or purchase your outdoor furniture from someplace else, but I really think you have just got to sever all ties with this designer.

It really rubs me the wrong way that she wanted you to tell her via e-mail what the problems are. That is insane -- as soon as you raised the flag of there being problems, she should have said "let me come out tout de suite to see it."

Last year we started working with a kitchen designer with whom there were some red flags, but I tried to ignore them. Mistake -- we had a v. ugly, contentious parting of the way (with her yelling at me "f*** you" in front of my three year-old and one year-old -- nice, huh?) and it turned out to be the BEST thing to happen to our kitchen project! My husband I both said that when she fired us we totally dodged a bullet -- what would have happened if we'd actually continued to work with her? I'll tell you -- lots of problems, lots of accusations, lots of demands for money, lots of drama and a lot of grey hair for me!

So I bring my own personal baggage to your story, but I wanted you to know I really do empathize.

This furniture is unacceptable. Period. This designer is unacceptable. Period. Both need to be removed from your life now. Period.

And I would definitely keep in your e-mail your first sentence (about not wanting to do this via e-mail) -- because it's a) true but also it's b) a reminder that she should be doing her job and getting over to your house to see it in person!

Good Luck!!!

Good letter - I am curious what your Sales Order / Receipt says as far as the specifications of the furniture she sold you ( note I stated sold you vs what you thought you ordered). Also what is the delivery date / lead time?
Did she remove the mfr hang tags upon delivery? You need these.
Clearly there was not a "Meeting of the Minds" on this order. Her interpretation of Kreiss - like and yours is different. Her standards are obviously lower than yours; she was there for the delivery & install, accepted the order on your behalf, thinks it is acceptable quality and feigns shock that you are unhappy with the poor quality.
Bottom line - I believe you are telling us that you do not want this furniture for all the reasons stated & you want a full refund. She did not meet the ship date. The basis of your Return for Full Refund may depend on your contract - your sales order - your written agreement. She did not meet the requirements set forth in this agreement - To deliver X, by X in perfect condition. You on the other hand did meet these requirements - You paid in Full.
The only reason I see for a meeting is for her to hand you a refund, and to pick up this furniture ( she is a designer - she has delivery people).
I suggest you get some very good pictures.
I would also check what is the allowable, legal amount that can be collected for a special order. You paid for the order in full with a check - is that correct?
In the future, I suggest you use a major Credit Card, which will afford you some protection, but read the agreement carefully, and only pay the minimum required deposit for special orders.
I sell furniture - mostly commercial, contract furnishings - not residential. I have been in business for 30 years - Please treat this like the business transaction that it is, and keep the emotions out of resolving this. She knows she has lost your future business, and now is trying to minimize her losses on this deal. How a business person handles mistakes or things that go wrong
separates the great professionals from the rest of the pack.

Shoot. I missed the perfect snarky opening:

"Dear ____________________,

You're surprised that I'm disappointed? . . . ." And go on from there. I know my letter is too long, but it does pretty much summarize the whole mess. My sister read the letter and her only question was whether I had an agreement that I could return it if not satisfied. So now I realize just how stupid and naive I was, how trusting.

rmkitchen: what a mess with your former KD. But it sounds like there was a silver lining, which I'm hoping is the case for us.

mago: No specifications except for the size of the table top. You remember: that now-infamous pedestal table that also happens to have legs. Grrr. No promised delivery date in writing. Nothing. She wasn't upfront about anything. Even when she had the shipping problem, she did not tell us until pushed. I guess I'm having such a hard time processing this whole thing because I could or would never do this to someone else, let alone someone I would see socially or who is a friend of a friend.

Meg, that set sounds just atrocious. The legs aren't even either? Good grief. I can so relate to the loss of season, too, and it's a biggy!

No Squirrel, not even. The Kreiss chairs don't even have a place to put levelers, but these chairs have levelers on two or three of the legs. The little half-ball end pieces sit almost an inch above the ground with the leveler sticking out. Very classy.

And when I sat in the chair yesterday, the new designer thought she saw the seat bow, so the seat strength is questionable too.

The loss of season is huge. We have been dragging our old formica table and tubular chairs onto the deck when we want to eat outside.

And the kicker is that I called Kreiss. They're having a 30% off sale right now. Can get it in four weeks. The real deal. Impeccable stuff, not this cr@p.

That's just bizarro. How do they think they can pass these things off. And what a waste for the landfills.

I do hope you're going to get the Kreiss set then. At least it's good timing there!

Meg - Now start thinking how to protect yourself from this non professional. Unfortunately, she already got your money - you have to get it back! Always be nice, always act cool & stay in control, but be firm. I agree it might be time for the good cop / bad cop - DH might have to be the bad cop if most of her dealings were with you so far.
Give her the beneift of the doubt, and ask her point blank, how to return this set and get a full refund. Period.
Be prepared to negotiate - discuss ahead of time with DH what the two of you will accept to get out of this situation. For instance - paying the return shipping - restocking, etc - NOT that I am suggesting that. Obviously, you want to sever all ties with this person. Use her lack of disclosure on the sales agreement to YOUR ADVANTAGE. ( I spell everything out to the minute detail to protect me as the seller, in my business). Turn her lack of professionalism around.
Google "implied warranty" for example:
From Wikipedia-
In the United States, the obligation is in Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). This warranty will apply to a merchant (that is, a person who makes an occupation of selling things) who regularly deals in the type of merchandise sold.

Under US law, goods are 'merchantable' if they meet the following conditions:

1. The goods must conform to the standards of the trade as applicable to the contract for sale.
2. They must fit for the purposes such goods are ordinarily used, even if the buyer ordered them for use otherwise.
3. They must be uniform as to quality and quantity, within tolerances of the contract for sale.
4. They must be packed and labeled per the contract for sale.
5. They must meet the specifications on the package labels, even if not so specified by the contract for sale.

If the merchandise is sold with an express "guarantee", the terms of the implied warranty of merchantability will fill the gaps left by that guarantee. If the terms of the express guarantee are not specified, they will be considered to be the terms of the implied warranty of merchantability. The UCC allows sellers to disclaim the implied warranty of merchantability, provided the disclaimer is made conspicuously and the disclaimer explicitly uses the term "merchantability" in the disclaimer.[1] Some states, however, have implemented the UCC such that this can not be disclaimed.

Well, it's far from settled with our former designer. I can't believe that she thinks this is acceptable--even beautiful. Although that was probably her way to preempt any complaints.

I'm not sure I'm going to order from Kreiss. They'd have to custom make a rectangular table and this whole process leaves me shaken. And there is a price difference. (Don't forget she was offering me half-price, proof-positive that you get what you pay for!)

This photo is from Kreiss:

Thanks for all the info mago. Very nice of you to provide all that for me. I'm hoping it doesn't get nasty because we do live in a small town, and I'm not litigious by nature.

I'm so tempted to contact an acquaintance who also knows her to get a feel for the situation. Thanks again!

Your email is perfect. I am very impressed with the elegance of your wording. If you haven't sent it yet, the only thing I could add would be based on the comment I just read about the Kreiss set. Why don't you email her again and just tell her that you would like her to do
what Magyorivergirl suggested? To just bring you your refund so you can get the correct set ordered now, while it's on sale?

Red

What a nightmare--I'm so sorry you have to go through this!

I'm not understanding the situation, however. When are you meeting with her?

I looked at the Kreiss website, very nice looking furniture with real people's faces behind the name. Her mention of Kreiss style is probably accurate, if the look is the same. Did she ever discuss quality? She is suppose to be the professional who is being paid to know the quality, terms and policies of the manufacturers she deals with. It is also her job to understand the quality of the furniture that is acceptable to you. If you liked the Kreiss, visited the showroom to "kick the tires" and discussed this set with her, you have every right to expect the same quality from another manufacturer that she, as the professional, recommends to you - even if it costs 1/2. You are paying her for her expertise! You might ask her how many sets from this mfr she has sold to
happy clients. If it is many - then she will have no problem returning this rogue, poorly made set because she has a good working relationship with this mfr & they will want to make her happy. If it is none - well, there you go - you Paid her for her contacts and expertise in this field. I think you'll get your money back, if you do your due diligence & not get into a war with her. Don't even discuss her insurance issues with the freight company.
And what is that about getting cushions made locally?? Meg. dear - go for the jugular - but keep smiling and never raise your voice.

Thanks Red. I'm trying so hard to be reasonable and not emotional. Just talked to DH (still out of town) who is using words like duped and misled. We both really thought we were going to be treated in a first class manner.

Organic: No meeting set yet. I wanted to schedule one but she wants to know the specifics first. Sheesh! She told me last week that she would be in--surprise--Mexico!--now, which is why she delivered some of our furniture last week, while I was out of town. I would never have let this stuff past my front door, and she probably knew that.

DH likes the letter, except for the line about her insisting on specifics before she will agree to meet with us-which was what her email implied-but he wants me to soften it. I'm feeling especially snarky so I need to edit carefully.

Just curious ... if you had opted not to use the designer's services and bought the furniture yourself from the "chi chi" store ... how much more would it have cost? Now figure in the loss of summer enjoyment and the ongoing aggravation, lol.

Are you sure you even NEED a designer? I know you've recently contracted with another, but maybe you're not giving yourself enough credit.

meg: Tell her the "specifics" are that the furniture is not in good shape, and that you want her to meet you at your house asap to discuss a refund. Your email is fine, EXCEPT: Do NOT ask for replacement furniture. I agree with what someone else said: Get your money back and get her out of your life. ASAP. Otherwise, you are setting yourself up for another long, drawn-out nightmare. If it were me, I would send a much shorter email stating:

Dear Designer-From-Hell:

I appreciate you wanting to know the "specifics" before meeting with me. In short, the furniture that was delivered was not the furniture I ordered--either in style or quality. In order for you to understand the "specifics," you must see the furniture in person.

What day are you available to meet with me?

Thank you.

Very sincerely yours,
Customer-With-A-Lawyer

That's all she needs to know.

Get your money back and cut your losses.

oooooh, os, I LIKE that!!! You need your own website....... www.getabackbone.com Mentoring for those who don't like making waves!

(meg I'm not suggesting you don't have a backbone - you just wanted a little bracing for this issue ;-) been there needed that)

Meg, good girl!! Great email and you hit to the heart of the matter~her dishonesty at knowing this wasn't the quality of furniture you were expecting.

I find when i'm upset about something little, that's the best time to handle a really important matter. The 'fire' is there and you can use it to your advantage.

Can't wait to hear her reply!

LOL Organic and dlm. I like that too. Now I'm torn between being very specific and using Organic's wording. I think I just better get her something, and quickly.

Mago: She's the one who suggested I go to the Kreiss showroom. (Did I mention that she used to work for them?) She knows how long it took for me to find the right rugs so there's no way she would think that I would put up with this schlock. I do like your ideas, too, about her taking it back. Supposedly she has a great relationship with all these companies because she orders so much. As for the locally-made cushions, I am not paying extra for them. And she's taking the current antique beige cushions and "selling them to a future client down the road." That should have sent up another red flag. I wonder who owned THIS set before me?

Natal: we're talking about a good chunk of change as someone else said. But there's no price tag for a ruined summer or all this aggravation. As the commercial says: Priceless.

Patty cakes: I really want to keep it business-like rather than have any name-calling but she was deceptive and misleading. I could be pleasantly surprised. She might just say she'll take it back but I think we're in for a fight.

Thanks everyone!

I want to share an experience that I had last year when we were building our house.
When the shingles were half installed I noticed some shading/spots. I checked the packing bags for the dates and the shingles were 2 years old. Our subcontractor told me that the lumber yard who provided the shingles had a similar problem in another house before. I went to the lumber yard and they said that the shading will disappear in some months. I said: I am not waiting to see the spots dissapear. I will not keep that shingles. Talked to the manager, he said that they could not do anything. They send the manufacturer rep. who came from 200 miles away.
The guy said the same, that I had to wait until the dust and rain conceal the uneven color. I said I am not waiting. I told the guy that what made them think that they could sell me expired shingles, and I was going to be ok with it. I asked him if the reason was because I was a woman. The guy said that it was not his fault that the lumber yard sold me that.
Inmediately I called the yard and told them what the guy said. I told the guy that keeping the shingles was not an option. Turns out, the l. yard gets special price when shingles get old and if they ever have a problem the manufacturer replace the shingles.
I told the guy: I want to be very clear with this: KEEPING THE SHINGLES IS NOT AN OPTION. You are going to do whatever you need to do to replace them. if you are not doing that: I inmediately will start removing them, and you should know that I will not have a roof and the electric and ventilating rough in is done. If my material goes bad because I do not have a roof you are going to hear from us. Keeping the shingles is not an option.
the guy called his boss, called the l. yard, talked to my sub and asked him how much he will charge to do the work.
I ended up with fresh shingles installed. This is an small city and people asked what was going on when they saw the roof removal.
In the end we decided to sell the house and it was sold the very first day - the broker that sold me the lot told the buyer that I did not put up with low quality.

I used Nan53 technique: The broken record. It works!

Please, do not settle with something that is not what you want.
If the designer tells you, prior ordering the set, that the quality was to be lower because of the lower price, then I am pretty sure, you do not buy the set. The low price is not an excuse in this case. She knew what you wanted.

Thanks for the story marthaelena. You're a role model.

Here's the letter I just sent to the designer. Now we'll just wait and see:

Dear _______________,
You have asked about our expectations and how the delivered furniture failed to meet our expectations. What follows is a description of our specific complaints as you requested.
Our expectation was pretty straight-forward: we expected to receive furniture similar in appearance, quality, design and comfort to the Kreiss Capri collection. The furniture that we received, however, is vastly different from and inferior to the Capri furniture that I had seen at the Kreiss showroom--the same furniture you told me to look at and sit on.
The most obvious problem with our furniture is that the finish is completely wrong. It is not the uniform rust-colored powder coated finish that is on display at Kreiss and that we had specified. Addtionally, and more importantly, the furniture we received shows substandard workmanship with cracks at some of the seams, ragged edges, bumpy lumps of slag, and legs that are not level. Our furniture is sloppy and not made well--definitely not Kreiss-like in quality. Even with regard to design and comfort, the style and dimensions are entirely wrong: The arms are too low to be used as arm rests. And our lounge chairs are so high and so deep that even I, at a little over 5'9", cannot sit comfortably in them. My feet barely touch the ground.
What we have received is nowhere near the quality of the pieces we had ordered and reasonably expected to receive. Clearly this furniture did not come from the manufacturer that supplies Kreiss--the direct manufacturer to whom you always referred. That this furniture did not come from a Kreiss supplier would have been beside the point if it had nevertheless been properly made. Sadly, this furniture was not. It did not come from a competent manufacturer. These are shoddy knock-off pieces that from a distance may resemble the Capri line, but they are not comparable in appearance, quality, design or comfort. They're not even close.
At this point I am sure you can tell just how upset we are. We waited several months for this outdoor furniture, so long in fact that our precious and short Pacific Northwest summer is almost gone. To wait all this time only to receive substandard furniture is the final straw. We are surprised that you accepted delivery of this furniture from the manufacturer, and that you "installed" this type of furniture, thereby apparently deeming it acceptable. It is not acceptable to us, however, and we do not want to keep it.
Come to our house. Look at this furniture. We're certain that you will agree that it is not what we had ordered and not what we reasonably expected. We have lost confidence in your manufacturer and are not willing to wait any longer. Given the significant delays and disappointments, there is no way that you can rectify this situation other than to remove these pieces from our home and provide an immediate refund of all of our money. Please call us by August 11th to schedule the pick-up and to let us know when we can expect a refund.
Meg & DH

It's clear that I've entered some twisted version of "While You Were Out" crossed with "Candid Camera."

I have received a response from the designer, and it's a very good response for me--if we ever end up in court. So with no further comment, here are our most recent emails to date. And, yes, we should be doing this in person but she's not in town (or so I thought) and my mouth keeps getting the better of me.

***********************

Hi Meg: Honestly, I am very surprised that you would think this is not the same furniture you went and sat on at Kreiss. I ordered the furniture from the same manufacturer as Kreiss does. The Capri style you choose is the exact style ordered - none of the dimensions have changed and the balance of your order has arrived (travertine top for cocktail table and dining table). Each of these pieces is hand made and was ordered on a custom basis for you. I did inspect the furniture at the shipping company and installed the furniture so that you would not have to wait any longer. This furniture was ordered at a discount to you - factory direct- custom ordered - and is not the sort of item that you can return for a refund. To address your concern about the depth of the lounge chair - the lumbar cushion will alleviate that problem. I am not sure if you looked closely at the patio furniture while you were at Kreiss however, it is exactly the same. I have been working with this product for 9 years now and am very familiar with the slight variations in a hand made product. The finish we selected is called "cruddy rust" - the very finish that Kreiss uses. I did order new feet for the bottom of your chairs and they too have arrived. I did notice that one of the ties was not cut - I felt it was not an issue since we were making the new cushion covers locally.
Regards,
Former Designer ("FD")

******************************

Dear FD,
There must be some logical explanation for what is going on here but, for the life of me, I'm sincerely at a loss to explain how we could be talking about the same furniture. It's clear that we will not be able to resolve this by email. Please let me know when you are available so the three of us can meet.
For the record, custom or not, we are within our rights to reject the furniture based on its substandard quality, or because it is not what we had ordered or reasonably expected to receive. If you'd ordered a custom dress, but the dressmaker made it the wrong color with an uneven hem, totally crooked seams, and one sleeve longer than the other, you'd be entitled to get your money back--despite her protests that she made the dress just for you. The same goes with this furniture.
We never accepted delivery of this furniture. Keeping it is not an option and we continue to expect a full refund. We're sure that once you see it again, you will agree that it is not acceptable. Please call or email so we can set up our meeting.
Meg & DH

************************************

Hi Meg: I ordered this furniure based on your photograph of the Kreiss Capri style patio furniture (attached). I want to be sure that the style you gave me is the style you expected? I have sent your e-mail to the manufacturer and am awaiting their reply.

Regards,

***********************************

Hi FD,
Yes, the photo you sent me earlier today is the photo of the Kreiss Capri collection, the set that I saw at Kreiss. As I've explained before, the furniture you delivered may resemble the Kreiss Capri collection, but it is not the same with regard to appearance, quality, design and comfort. When I chose the Kreiss set, you told me that you were very familiar with the Kreiss collections but I think you need to see the Capri pieces again, in person, so you understand what I was expecting to receive and you can appreciate the problems.
What is not readily evident in the Kreiss photo is that the Kreiss furniture is almost impeccable in its workmanship. Look at the edges, the back lattice work (especially the smoothed-down welding points there), the uniform rust brown finish, and the even and level legs.
I'm sure that after going to Kreiss and inspecting their furniture, you will understand why we are dissatisfied with the furniture you delivered. As you recall from the installation, the furniture you delivered has a streaky, dirty-looking matte black finish, ragged edges, sloppy welding points, and uneven legs. There are also a few cracks at the seams so that water is collecting in some of the pieces. Additionally, there are differences between the two sets with regard to actual design and dimensions, but I'm not going to list them here again.
Please contact us once you have seen the Kreiss furniture in person. Are you in town this week?
Meg & DH

*****************************

Hi Meg: I have been purchasing this furniture (for Kreiss Collection) as well as for my private clients. It is one and the same manufacturer. The adjustable feet enable you to level the legs (many patios are uneven). I am not here for the balance of this week but would like to meet with you next week to take a look at the furniture and see what can be done. The finish in the photo is actually green but we specified cruddy rust (which is what I also order for Kreiss). Please let me know your schedule next week so that we can get together.

Regards,

************************

Hi FD,
A couple quick questions:
Are you in town now? I ask because DH's schedule is pretty hectic next week and I really want to resolve this as soon as possible.
Also, I didn't understand what you meant when you said "which is what I also order for Kreiss." Do you order this furniture for Kreiss now?
Meg

Here's a new email from FD, hot off the computer:

Hi Meg: I have meetings all day today and leave first thing tomorrow a.m. for Canada. I have not ordered for Kreiss since 2002 but have for many of my customers (previously purchased at Kreiss and we have added more pieces since then). I would like to take some pictures for the manufacturer (of the issues you have described) they stand behind their product.

Regards,

Meg, before your former designer comes to look at the furniture she ordered for you, buy a piece of the Kreiss! Beg, borrow or steal it from the company showroom and have it at your house to DEMONSTRATE the differences between it and the furniture you received. The woman is going to swear that yours' is the same quality.

Start taking pictures right now for your lawsuit.

Honestly, her emails don't make clear sense to me. Similar to the 'manufacturerers' thing, or whatever it was in the quote the other day.

Before she leaves, have her schedule pickup : ) Maybe it can be stored at her place until things are worked out.

My new designer thought I should just bring it over to her house and dump it at the end of her driveway. And then follow it up with an email letting her know that I "installed" it at her house while she was out of town. Hope that's okay. But I won't do that yet. Maybe.

Put it on her deck or something, so it doesn't walk : ( Of course, she could simply claim it did, too. Registered and signed for delivery?

I would ask her to pick it up before she leaves and keep it at her house.

How about *ordering* her to pick it up before she leaves, as you are going to buy (from Kreiss) the furniture you *thought* you ordered through her? And since she will then possess the furniture, it will be quite easy for her to inspect it, notice all the quality-control issues (which you and DH have carefully documented and photographed, of course), and begin processing your full refund for shoddy goods?

OK, perhaps this isn't the most diplomatic answer you could give her.

Grr. What a.... um, piece of work.

Well this is where it gets even more interesting. I called Kreiss HQ today and was told that they DO have an outside manufacturer for their outdoor furniture in Mexico. (That conflicts with their website and what the local Kreiss showroom told me, but I do believe the head office. Why would they lie?)

If I buy from Kreiss, they would need to make me a custom table. Obviously I'm leery of getting involved in the whole custom order kind of thing.

Here are photos of the Kreiss furniture:

And here are photos of what she delivered:

Clearly, the furniture she ordered for you is a knock-off of Kreiss. Email her again and say that you will not accept such shoddy merchandise, that you are not interested in reordering, and that there is no question but that the furniture should be returned and your money refunded. Period.

Hi Organic,

Yeah, it's pretty hideous. I really am at a loss as to what she's thinking or doing. And I'm beginning to think that she really believes this is the same manufacturer, because she keeps saying it. But she "installed" it, so how could she continue to think that? Did she not look at it? She noticed a tie was not cut, but not the messy welds and finish? And who authorized her to order cruddy rust? And there are no flexible legs on the Kreiss set. There isn't even a hole to put a leveler, if that's what it's called.

I'm not sending her the photos right now. I am going to wait until next week and have the showdown here.

Something you need to ask Kreiss - Do they charge the same amount for furniture made in the U.S. facility as in the contract(?) Mexico factory? How does one know where the furniture is made? Also, do all the Kreiss showrooms & stores sell the line made in Mexico? They have showrms in Canada & Mexico. Be very nice to Kreiss - you may need them.
Is she really a reputable designer? She sounds more like a factory rep - nothing wrong with that at all (I rep various lines, but do not represent myself as a "designer".)
You need to seek some legal advice - maybe contact the State's Attorney's Office to find an attorney who specializes in retail contract law.
You have Paid for these goods - she has delivered the goods - and you have them in your possession. You, unfortunately, own them and are responsible for them - in my opinion. She is delaying resolving this issue and I think you need to light a fire under her butt to make this issue a Priority!
Regardless of her past relationship to Kreiss, the quality of this set is what you are upset about, regardless of where it was made!

No wonder you're pissed! I would have lost it long before this, lol!!!

When I called Kreiss, they told me info up to a certain point, and then were not willing to divulge any information. I don't think Kreiss is involved in this. This is basically her problem with her manufacturer, and I want out of the loop.

She is a designer, and she reps various lines. (I forgot to mention that at some point, my sister inadvertently responded to the designer. I think the designer thought she was an attorney. But in her response, she was pretty clear that this furniture was not returnable because it is custom-made. Thus my language about the custom dress.

You're right Mago. I wouldn't care who made this stuff so long as it was good quality, but it's not.

She noticed a tie wasn't cut, because she couldn't tie the cushion on when she installed.
She knows what the stuff looks like!!! She thinks it is fine!
Please don't ever, ever order or even purchase furniture in a store, that doesn't
spell out exactly what the product is - especially the color. Did she show you a color chip or sample of her furniture? Cruddy Rust that accuratelydescribes the finish - it looks pretty cruddy!!! I know that wasn't a helpful comment for you; I just couldn't resist. :)

I'll admit, I was glancing at the first few photos thinking, "I don't really see a problem". THEN I came to your photos of YOUR furniture! That's just terrible. I wouldn't even buy that quality of furniture from Wal Mart, let alone a high end brand, privately ordered, for a lot more money.

meg: The furniture may have been "custom-ordered," but it was not the "custom" furniture *you* ordered. Don't get involved with back-and-forth details. The furniture is poorly made and is not what you ordered. Tell her that you are not interested in arguing about this further. She needs to remove the furniture and reimburse. Where do you live? I"ll help you "convince" her. :)

Meg - what was custom made about it? If they make the furniture for Keiss - then why is it custom - made? It may be Made to Order - that is entirely different. Custom & made to order are different.
I also urge you to not tell her everything you know, as you may need to pursue this legally - as you say this is a large purchase. Document everything, as someone else suggested.
Very unprofessional that she would respond to your sister about your order without knowing who she was actually responding to.
Also, very cool, GW responded to your need & this is still here.

I just realized I should have responded to her email and chastised her for not contacting me when she got back into town. She knows how upset we are and this should have been a priority.

DH doesn't want me to send photos but I think that I should. I just want to get this over with, get our money back and move on. I know there's something to be said for holding back info, Mago, but I keep thinking that once she sees everything, she'll understand and give us our money back. We're over the small claims court limit so it makes more sense to try to get this resolved without litigation.

And to make matters worse, I just found a beautiful set that I love, love, love. And there's an aluminum french country table in the set. It's not on sale right now so there's no rush:

Here is a link that might be useful: Summer Classics Palm

I agree with DH about the pics - She has seen the furniture. A sharp salesperson, would inspect these pieces one by one either during or prior to the installation, taking care of any problems BEFORE it reaches the client. If it was something minor, a quick note telling you what the problem was and what she was doing to fix it would be acceptable. Instead, I believe she knows what a mess this furniture is. She has no incentive to fix this for you. She has had your upfront money for 9 months, not sitting in a bank acct waiting to be sure you are happy, but instead, has probably spent it, invested it in this venture, paid other venders - whatever. She is reacting ( or not reacting) in a manner that screams potential cash flow problems, or she would meet the issue head on and work out a financial settlement with you. I hope I am wrong! Having said this, I really think you need to proceed quickly with whatever you & DH decide is in your best interest.
She can write checks or wire a refund from Canada or Mexico. (If she gets a check to you - immediately take it to her bank - the bank it is drawn on $ cash it. Do not deposit it in your acct.)
I do not mean to alarm you but she is sending up major red flags. Why did she say this furniture took so long to get here? Do you have any resources to do any kind of credit check on her company?
I suspected it was not small claims.

Meg,

Does your original order have style/piece numbers that you can check against REAL Kreiss numbers?

Also...is "cruddy rust" a real color from Kreiss?

I'm thinking of some furniture I ordered recently and both the piece number and color number are clearly stated on the order form.

Sorry you're going through this...I hope it resolves well for you.

Also, very cool, GW responded to your need & this is still here.. What???

Does Craig's List exist in your area? Time for a major exposé!

Sorry ... I meant Angie's List!!!

Just to clarify for me:

1. did you specifically ask her to order the Kreiss brand of furniture?

2. did you specifically give her the model number/design number of the items you wished her to order?

3. did you confirm the items brand and model number prior to placing the order?

did you just send her a photo, tell her you wanted something "like this" or "kreiss style."

Because unless you clearly provided the model and brand information to her, she can very easily say you told her you wanted something "Kreiss style" and not specifically "kreiss brand" (see the difference?) and if you approved the order without checking the specifics, you are responsible for what you got. Whether or not it is what you wanted or expected, unless she sent you something that is not what is detailed on the order sheet, you have less recourse. What is in writing is what matters, not what you verbally discussed.

I wouldn't go into this with the idea that she's already fighting and is going to insist you keep it. Her emails request the information about why you want to return the set, which would be expected. Even for her to point out that it was a custom order, would be expected. People don't always end up liking what they buy, but they've bought it. The issue here, though, is the quality. At this point, I'm not sure if she's still supposed to come by to inspect it or what, but schedule that if it's the next step. Or, maybe she'll just schedule pickup based on the photos only.

Okay, let me summarize.

This designer used to work for Kreiss but doesn't any longer. When I was about to order outdoor furniture from her, we were buying it based on internet and catalog photos (from Lane Venture) and I wasn't comfortable buying something without sitting in it first.

So she told me to go to Kreiss, look at and sit one their stuff, because she can order the same furniture directly from the manufacturer. (FYI, she still says that she ordered it from the Kreiss supplier and that it is exactly the same as what I sat on at Kreiss so there's no argument there.)

The invoices called it Capri, like Kreiss does, but there are no model numbers. I had emailed her that the finish is called rust, but the invoice did not specify a finish color. I now have learned that she ordered it in cruddy rust. She says "we" but I never heard of cruddy rust. Either way, she still says it's the exact finish that Kreiss uses.

I'm not sure where she and I had left it according to the emails. I think she's expecting me to email her my availability next week so "she can see what can be done." She wants to take photos to send to the manufacturer. (Let me remind you that she already inspected this stuff at the shipper and again when she "installed" it, so either she knew about the defects and hoped that I wouldn't notice them OR she didn't notice the defects in which case she has a lousy eye and just doesn't care.)

I couldn't help myself and left a message on her cell about an hour ago. I told her that I was disappointed that she hadn't called me when she got back from Mexico, that she knew how upset we were but she hadn't made this a priority. We are upset that now we have to wait until next week. I asked her to stop by our house on her way home. I also mentioned that we hadn't changed our position, that this was something between her and her manufacturer, that we just wanted our money back and we wanted to move on. I also said something like I have no idea what is going on--meaning I don't understand how this could be happening, but I'm sure she won't understand it that way.

So I still have my photos but haven't shared them with her yet. I'm so tempted to throw one of these chairs into my car and knock on her front door.

Our new designer said that I should demand from her a copy of the paper that I signed agreeing that this furniture is not returnable. And even if I did sign that paper, this stuff is still returnable because of its substandard quality and the wrong finish.

I keep hoping that we'll get our money back but then I think she's going to fight very hard.

Meg, You said it about 25 posts ago - don't email any more and don't email the pictures. You've left the cell message. Now wait til she gets back and then next week, if you haven't heard from her call her again and again until you speak with her. Then if she agrees to come over to look at and take this furniture away, good. If she doesn't agree, tell her you will be delivering it to her yourself and be definite with a time and day you'll be bringing it. And don't back down from expecting a full refund. Period - no more, no less.

Your situation is at a point where emails clearly aren't working. In fact, they are allowing her to look like she's paying attention to you but, it reality, she's not resolving anything.

Good luck.

Meg, what a nightmare! Sounds like you are spending untold amounts of time and energy dealing with this, and that is so frustrating.

But, I have the same question that dgmarie raises:

"1. did you specifically ask her to order the Kreiss brand of furniture?

did you just send her a photo, tell her you wanted something "like this" or "kreiss style."

You responded:

"This designer used to work for Kreiss but doesn't any longer.

The invoices called it Capri, like Kreiss does, but there are no model numbers."

Without disagreeing that the furniture you got is clearly not made very well, I keep having the sense that you were, through this designer, attempting to order something brand name using a sort of gray-market discount plan. The logic of getting high end furniture from the 'same manufacturer' (ie the brand name furniture itself) at a fraction of the cost...well, to me that doesn't seem like something a logical buyer could or would think reasonable. It would be as if you could just go to Ethan Allen then call up someone and they would order it directly from China at half price. If that was so easily done why would any company even bother to market their line at the 'real' price?

I hope this doesn't sound like bashing but it has been puzzling me throughout this conversation. There seems to be outrage that you didn't get Kreiss furniture. But you didn't order or pay for Kreiss furniture. Sounds like you got taken by a shady operator who spun a fairy tale (I can get you this stuff directly from the manufacturer etc etc). If she had said she got a designer discount *from Kreiss* that might have been a different matter. But I think dgmarie is right. On the facts of the matter I can't see how a court would find that you were defrauded. You can't bring in photos of Kreiss furniture to compare because that isn't what you bought when all is said and done. You bought knock-offs.

I do hope this designer responds to your concerns and addresses your issues, though it doesn't sound promising. I fear she is heading down exactly the path above, ie 'you got just what I promised you', meaning knock off furniture at a knock off price.

Ann

I don't see how the furniture could be declared a "knock off" if it was supposed to be ordered from the *same* manufacturer. Maybe I'm just missing something here, but my impression is that Meg just thought she was getting the *same* furniture but at a lower price (not discounted) because they were cutting out the middle man (retailer) and going directly to the manufacturer.

Unfortunately, my reaction after following this saga is to believe that nothing short of very abrupt action will make this designer finally get off her a$$ and address the problem. Returning the furniture to her is a great first step; and if she still delays in the refund, then suing her is next. I understand, Meg, that you don't want to go that route (really, no one does) but your designer is apparently a master at procrastination and avoidance. Since she pulled this off sucessfully with you since December she already has an impression that she can walk all over you. Sorry.

learn_as_i_go wrote it for me, that this designer is dilly-dallying and, it reads to my eye, playing with you a bit. The fact that she didn't get back to you when she was home (in between her trips) and that she keeps asking you the same questions, the questions you've just answered (repeatedly) makes me think she's sketchy and taking advantage of you ....

I would NOT return the furniture to her without all kinds of official documentation, because then she might think "great! Since I obviously don't have an ethical bone in my body now I have this lousy furniture and their money!"

I hate, I really hate to say this, but I think you need some legal representation / advice. This is dragging on too long and she is clearly showing you that you are not that important to her, that your issues with the furniture are not important to her, and making the situation right is not at all important to her.

It appears that she is using the word "custom" when she means "made to order" -- as we all know, big difference. She is now slipping all these "we"s in there (about the finish, for one) when you know (and hopefully still have that e-mail) you specified "rust," not her "cruddy rust."

I feel so bad for you. I feel SO bad for you to have to deal with this. I am also really proud of how you are dealing with this.

runninginplace,

Since the designer herself has already stated that she had promised me furniture from the Kreiss supplier, and that's what she provided me, isn't any kind of gray-market or knock-off argument moot? She set up the expectation that we were going to receive Kreiss furniture directly from the manufacturer.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that kind of thing goes on all the time. My mother used to own a store and she would allow certain people to buy things at the wholesale price without the markup.

Learn as I go explained it well: we were relying on her expertise and contacts to cut out the middle man. She reps that line. Nothing gray market or knock off about it.

Not surprisingly, FD didn't stop by our house last night. And I understand everyone's great comments about her delay tactics but I must be a glutton for punishment because I can't let it go, and especially not for a week.

The question now, though, is this: If we wait for her to come back into town, take photos, send photos to the manufacturer, etc., then we're playing right into her hands.

Instead, I think providing her the comparison photos right now cuts down the delay. So why shouldn't I send her the photos?

I have been reading this and this is my take.

I would guess your designer didn't on purpose order inferior products for you. However, that seems to be the case. I would think from her response, she's also conflict avoidant and is hoping if you live with the furniture for awhile, you'll just learn to keep it.

I'm sure it's not a simple process for her to go through to contact the manufacturer and return it etc.

That said, I really don't see why you can't email her the pictures. She's going to probably need to email photos to the manufacturer to get a return authorization, so why not provide them for her?

I had a similar situation with my Bernhardt leather sectional. Several of the cushions were showing odd wear on the leather - the color was wearing off. I called the place I ordered the furniture from, and they asked me to email them photos because that is what Bernhardt requires to illustrate the problem. I did so, they sent the photos to the manufacturer and new cushion covers were ordered and shipped to me.

I'd rather she spend her time tracking down a resolution to the issue than standing on my patio listening to me rant about how unhappy I was. If she doesn't respond after you email the photos, I'd contact a lawyer and have them draft a letter or make a call to her. That should get her attention and let her know you mean business. But, why delay matters by making her come onsite other than to make you feel better? Yes, if she was a professional and if nothing else had a conscience, she would come to your home and reassure you that she would make this right. She's not those things, you've found a new designer, you now just want to get this resolved. Send her the photos!

Thanks Carole,

I think you're right that she didn't order inferior products on purpose but the whole thing is so odd. I still don't understand how she could have inspected the various pieces and not seen the problems.

I think I will send the photos for the reasons you stated. Otherwise we're facing additional delay until she can make time for us in her busy schedule.

I would love a return authorization, but not an exchange. The designer said that the manufacturer stands behind his product, implying that he will make it right.

But it's not like this is an easy fix. The problems are the result of his manufacturing process (mostly sloppy welding), so I am not confident he'll suddenly be able to make it better or neater.

It's not like we changed our minds. This is substandard stuff and we want to return it. End of discussion.

Dropping in with my .02 again.
The very fact that this is still persisting is insanity on everyones part. Upon inspection if I had determined that I received an inferior product I would have loaded up my truck and dropped it on the "designers" doorstep.
I don't understand why this is going on like it is.
Clearly the "designer" is playing games- the "wait long enough and tire out the client" game. It still sounds as if the "designer" is calling the shots and it's been well over a week!

I would email the photos and tell her you want to return the furniture - you do not want replacements.

If the manufacturer refuses to refund your money and your only recourse is to get new furniture or lose your money, I would then document in detail the specifications of the pieces you want with pictures.

If you could get the furniture in the condition and sizing that you originally expected would you want it then?

I know you're upset and now you don't want to deal with this manufacturer, but keep an open mind. The manufacturer really only owes you furniture that was ordered from him in a high quality, finish perfect condition.

At this point, the manufacturer - other than providing initally shoddy furniture, hasn't been given the opportunity to make things right, so even in the courts, I think they would side with him. Especially since you don't have any paperwork that says you can return the furniture for a full refund.

Ask for the refund, but be mentally prepared that you might be stuck with getting new furniture, but you should expect it to be manufactured at the same quality level as any retail Kreiss furniture - if this really is the same manufacturer that makes Kreiss. If your designer is using a knock off manufacturer, then you have a bigger problem because you will probably have to sue her to get your money back, and that could cost more in legal fees than what the furniture cost.

So, don't go there yet, email the pictures and ask for a refund and then go from there.

Yes, Miles, I know this is insanity. But what choice do I have? Had I known she was in town, I might have delivered it to her door step, but it's too late now.

Carole, those are all interesting points. But my agreement was with the designer, not the manufacturer. And it appears that the designer did two things wrong: she ordered the wrong finish AND she bought the furniture from a manufacturer who has a substandard manufacturing process. The manufacturer does not know how to do this correctly, and I doubt he'll learn how to make it correctly in the next few weeks. We've already waited eight months. We don't want to wait another few months only to find that his production process is the same shoddy process. This is not an easy fix.

As far as the paperwork goes, I think the onus is on the designer to produce something that I signed, agreeing that the furniture was not returnable. And there is no such paper.

But I am going to send the photos to her, and will tell her that our position remains the same.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I would be contacting a lawyer by now. For what I'm guessing you paid for the furniture, it would be well worth it.

I agree entirely with anele and rmkitchen. A lawyer will be able to clear things up for you -- i.e., what can you legally demand from her -- and will intimidate her nicely.

FD's husband is an attorney specializing in plaintiff's personal injury. I wonder if she has run the facts past him.

Me again, the skunk at the picnic, the fly in the ointment, the squeak in the shoe...ok, enough with the dumb analogies!

But, Meg I'm really truly confused. You responded to my first comments, about knock-offs etc. with this:

"Since the designer herself has already stated that she had promised me furniture from the Kreiss supplier, and that's what she provided me, isn't any kind of gray-market or knock-off argument moot? She set up the expectation that we were going to receive Kreiss furniture directly from the manufacturer."

But then you say this:

"And it appears that the designer did two things wrong: she ordered the wrong finish AND she bought the furniture from a manufacturer who has a substandard manufacturing process. The manufacturer does not know how to do this correctly, and I doubt he'll learn how to make it correctly in the next few weeks."

So it sounds like you are saying that the Kreiss manufacturer has a substandard manufacturing process, since supposedly that was who was making the furniture? Or are you saying you recognize that you weren't ordering from Kreiss, aka 'the same manufacturer'?

Very confusing; aside from receiving substandard merchandise do you think she should provide you with *real* Kreiss, or do you think what you now say is a subpar manufacturer should provide you with perfect imitation Kreiss, or some form of Kreiss but without actually being marketed from Kreiss? I assume from what you've written you basically want your money back-which I think is exactly what should happen, no question.

I know, I'm inviting a virtual conk on the head. But I'm really truly puzzled about this situation.

Ann

I suggested eight days ago that you get a lawyer and get it on letterhead. You're spinning your wheels and the "designer" is probably just hoping she can wear you down. Enough already. Get a professional.

I spoke with my lawyer today and I just can't tell you how great it feels to have someone who does this for a living on my side! I just can't do it alone. Not my job.

And if you're confused, RIP, imagine the field day the ex-"designer" is having? She obviously has meg jumping through hoops while taking care of other clients. Self-employment has it's benefits, eh?
Seriously Meg, your chain is being yanked by someone who is all but telling you that YOU need to prove to HER why you aren't happy. If that isn't the tail wagging the dog I don't know what is.
SHE (the ex-"designer") needs to prove to YOU (meg) that it is the same exact finish, quality and manufacturer. SHE needs to provide the paper trails & the comparison piece. In my opinion, the completely wrong person is on the defense about this- and it isn't the ex-"designer".

As for the whole lawyer thing- I disagree about the advantages although I have no idea what you really paid for the furniture you have. One has to weigh the cost of pursuing legal action against the cost of replacing the furniture & the time it'll take. I predict that you could recoup half or more your cost of the furniture from a private sale or even through craigslist.

I could have this wrapped up in less than 2 hours:

1) Post an ad in the paper, cl or both to get rid of the furniture you don't want.

2) Call & e-mail the ex-"designer" and tell her to hit bricks. Tell you you no longer wish to speak or see her and that you will be telling EVERYONE you know about your experience. Tell her you intend to contact the BBB and file a formal complaint. If she is a licensed ID you can also file a complaint with her professional affiliation. All of that could be easily done in under 30 minutes on line.

Done.

Now all you have to do is use your time to sell the stuff rather than fight with the ex-"designer" over it. If you pursue legal action she could dig herself in for the long haul and you might not see this resolved for several months. Is that what you want? How much are you willing to spend and give up to make the ex-"designer" do the right thing?

Use this as a learning experience to carry through your relationship with your new designer.

At this point, I agree with Amy, Meg. She should have been at your house pronto, expressed her horror at the substandard quality, arranged to have it removed, and cut you a check. Within 24 hours. She's yanking your chain. Don't be "nice." Have a lawyer send her a letter.

Do you have a consumer protection division of your local government? Is your designer licensed by any organization? Is there a consumer affairs reporter on your local TV or radio station? I suggest you contact all of them ASAP.

Meg's already told us that this woman is now in Canada. I hope she's having a nice vacation, if that's what she's doing.
I know when I go on vacation, I leave ALL, and I mean ALL, worries behind (unless it involves family). So, yes, I agree that you're getting yanked around, too. But the sad part is that you seem to have set yourself up for it.

Okay everyone. I don't need you all beating me up, too!!

I don't think I set myself up for this. I have been putting into effect the "broken record" technique that others urged when I first posted this problem. True, it seems like I am constantly repeating myself to her, but I am just reiterating my position: we want it to be picked up and get a refund. She has been away so I can't expect her to drop everything for this.

Don't forget that I'm trying to be civil, too, since this is someone I will see socially forever after in this small town. And, yes, I realize that she doesn't seem to be concerned about that at all, but then I must be a nicer person--and I'm ethical, too.

running: you have posed the question correctly. I am confused as to how this happened and don't have an explanation. She promised furniture from the Kreiss supplier, which in my mind was furniture of the same quality as that displayed at Kreiss. Had she delivered furniture from another supplier that was still of Kreiss quality, that would have been fine. I'm not sure how she managed to get furniture fron the Kreiss supplier that is so lousy. So either this isn't the Kreiss supplier OR it is and he has changed his production processes, or employees, or something, so that his furniture now stinks.

I don't want this manufacturer to do anything more for us. We want our money back. It's been way too long a wait.

I will not call an attorney yet. I am waiting for her to respond to the photos. But if necessary, I will contact the BBB, her design associations, and the State Attorney General. I will also tell everyone I know AND set up a display at the end of our driveway and on our car, etc. I'm not going to let this go.

The designer did not "deliberately" order substandard furniture. However, she "deliberately" ordered it from a manufacturer she has dealt with before and who she knows is not the same quality Meg was expecting. She "deliberately" had the furniture delivered when Meg was not home, and she "deliberately" has used delaying tactics and outright lies to avoid a face to face discussion.

She knew when she ordered it that it was substandard. She knew when it arrived that it would not suit you.
She knew you were angry.
She is now avoiding you like the plague.

Small town or not, everyone understands the alpha dog analogy. Take a video of the furniture, with closeups of the problem areas. Reiterate your point in a note: The furniture is not acceptable. Here it is. and leave the furniture on her patio. Do this while she is gone.... perhaps she'll be as surprised as you were.

Ditto what kswl said.

Meg: You're being jerked around. I understand your concerns, but you're helping her to back you into a corner. Standing up for yourself has nothing to do--in this instance--with being "ethical" or "nice." Just something to think about.

Meg- no one here is beating you up. We are all living this frustrating situation vicariously through you and sharing with you the individual methods we would each deal with it.

But the NICE ship has sailed.

I can assure you that your ex-designer isn't running around town telling everyone what a fabulous customer you are. She's telling all her friends, family and associates what a complete b tch you are for questioning her design & business integrity.

You'll do what you feel you need to, meg. But the bottom line is that as long as little Miss Ex-"designer" keeps making you jump through her hoops, she's already got you beat.

(((Meg))) I was so hoping your issue would be resolved by now and you would be doing a happy dance!
Nan

Meg, I'm not getting on your case or beating you up. It's just that from what you've told all of us, you've spent over 1 week now working on drafting/writing "perfect" emails so that you will be viewed as a nice person with her and in town. In the process, time has elapsed (which works against you) and from your comments it now seems that the door is definitely open for her to keep treating you like a doormat...the foolish little client who is a bit misguided and angry. And now she's out of the country.

At this point, I'd quit being nice. Instead take the bull by the horns and stand up for yourself.

The truth has a lot of power, won't bite you in the butt and spells it out for the designer. I'd email or phone with something along these lines;

You know Susie, this is getting ridiculous and the last thing I want is an ongoing problem with you since our worlds are small and connected. We're unsatisfied with this product and the way you seem to be putting us off since we told you of the problem. I'd love it if you simply picked up the furniture, refunded our money and took it upon yourself to work this out with the manufacturer since they are your source. Then we can all look each other in the eye in the future. Alternatively, DH and I feel the need for legal representation and what an uncomfortable solution that will be for all of us. Let's get this handled.

It's not b*tchy, there's no hyperbole or justifying language and it's not wishy washy, either. It clearly spells out the either/or and lays that in her lap. Then you have to have the cajones to follow through.

Hi all,

I know you're not trying to beat me up, and have only my best interests in mind. You have all been so generous with your time and I do appreciate reading your different methods of getting this taken care of.

dlm: I love that note and will wait another day or two before using it. As alternatives, I may mention other remedies in the note in addition to hiring a lawyer. (DH woke me up this morning telling me to "Get Jessie" the local consumer advocate on one of the major TV channels.)

She's not taking me or this situation seriously. Her agreement to me was to provide furniture just like the furniture I saw at Kreiss, and she hasn't lived up to that agreement.

At the installation, she either knew the stuff was not good quality and hoped that I wouldn't notice or know any better, OR she didn't know that it was not good quality, in which case she's not the expert with the discerning eye that she holds herself out to be. Or maybe she didn't inspect it at all. Either way, this is something she has to work out with the manufacturer and take us out of the loop.

Thanks again everyone.

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

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Defeatist attitude

Johnatemp

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interesting wording in her email

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I finally sent an email

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designer's response

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Parma and Nan

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Squirrel

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here is my venting letter -- to be edited

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It's not settled yet

Mago

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

I've entered the Twilight Zone

And a new email

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr

RE: outdoor furniture and designer update -- Grrrr