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bundy123_gw

Conflicting information re warm or cool whites

bundy123
9 years ago

I know you have all been asked a zillion times about cabinet and trim color but I ran into two color ":experts" that had conflicting information.

Our trim is SW extra white and I was looking to pair this with SW Divine white. I have this combination elsewhere in the house and it looks fine to me so I was going to use the same for the kitchen cabinets. One person at the SW call in color experts stated it was fine with the correct lighting and the other said no as extra white is a cool white and divine white is a warm white. I know there is no umber in the extra white but I thought it was one of those colors that went with anything.

The husband and chef of the family wants the extra white cabinets and trim and I am okay with that so if I need to switch the wall color I can.

Flooring in the kitchen will be a wood look tile.

Is using these two with the added weight of the cabinets bad? What say you?

Thanks

Comments (17)

  • BungalowMonkeys
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My take is go with the white you like on the cabinets and if the trim doesnt work with it after they are painted, change the trim. Divine white is a creamy warm, smidge of peachy undertones right? Would look great as a cabinet color. The extra white is very cool, but I don't think it will look bad, unless it makes the cabinets look like a dirty white because of the pure cool crispness of it. Not sure if that makes sense.

    My favorite warm white is Benjamin Moore Alabaster. My whole house trim and builtin book shelves are painted that. When we redo our kitchen it will also be the cabinet color. Its a warm inviting white. Maybe that for trim, if you want two types of white.

  • ontariomom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For good reason, most people choose the same colour for their cabinets as their trim colour, if they go white. If Divine White is creamy and yellow enough, it should work to have the cabinets that colour and the trim extra white. However, if divine white is just a cream colour (and not really yellow), than I think you should choose a warmer cream white for your trim too. In other words, if you want your cabinets to be white, your trim should be white (ideally the exact same white). If you want your cabinets to be cream, then the trim should be the same cream. If you want your cabinets to be a pale creamy yellow than the cabinets will read as a colour and not white, so you can pair that with a white like SW extra white. The rules for a warm white wall colour and trim are not the same -- here you want contrast (perhaps why your current application looks good). With the cabinets and trim you want a match or a deliberate contrast (colour cabinets/ white trim).

    I will note that much of what I have written is what I picked up on a course I took with Maria Killam who is a well known colour expert here in Canada. She has a blog you might be interested in, and she is soon to publish an e-book all on white.

    BTW, SW Extra white is supposed to be a true white, not a blue white or so I have read.

    Carol

  • amberm145_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    But Carol, that advice conflicts with Lynda Reeves advice that for an all white room, you should use multiple colours of white. More expert conflict! :)

    You could probably say that Lynda is talking about the white-on-white-on-white colour schemes. Having subtle variations on the colour creates texture, which is necessary to keep a monochromatic colour scheme from being flat.

    But then Maria is probably assuming that your room isn't going to be all white. So you don't need the texture, and it's easier to just have one white.

    That doesn't answer OP's question, though. I am terrible at paint names. And I just put up what I think works. I use different lighting as an excuse if someone says I broke some rule. :P

  • ontariomom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Maria Killam advice I was writing about related to having white cabinets and what to do about the trim. In the course I took with Maria this summer, she clearly advised white or off white cabinets are paired with matching white/off white trim. Cream cabinets are paired with matching cream trim. Pale yellow cabinets are paired with white trim as you would not want to do yellow trim everywhere else. She advised us to pick a lane. If our hard finishes are white, then the trim and other hard finishes should be white. If our hard finishes are cream, then the trim and other hard finishes should be cream. She was not speaking about decorating a room in white, but picking hard finishes (counters, tile, cabinets) and trim.

    Maria also told us that it is okay to go crisper white for the trim in the bathrooms if a crisper white trim is better in there, but still have a warmer white trim in the rest of the house if that is what is more appropriate in the main space. If you switch trim colours, it has to be inside a different room with a door. That surprised me, as I had assumed having matching trim throughout the house was best. If you have to switch trim colour for the bath, one side of the door is painted to match one trim colour, the other side is painted the other trim colour and the door jam is painted the trim colour of the room it swings into. Based on this advice we are going one shade crisper white in the baths as a crisper white was more appropriate to the hard finishes we chose for the baths, but a warmer white was more appropriate to the counter top and other finishes we are choosing for the kitchen and adjoining rooms.

    Could it be that Lynda Reeves is not speaking about cabinets and trim but how to decorate other rooms all in white. I have not read anything from Lynda Reeves. I believe I read about using different whites creating textures if you are doing say a living room in whites.

    It is frustrating when colour experts have different opinions.

    Carol

  • bundy123
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gah...sorry I think I have lead you all down the wrong path with my description and for that I apologize.

    I want to paint the cabinets in SW extra white to match the current trim and the walls will be divine white. One person said no as extra white is "cool" and divine white is "warm" and the other said yes because SW extra white goes with all...these are both color experts within Sherwin Williams Sorry if I confused you all.

    So if I understand the points made, as long as my cabs and trim match and being as I am using SW extra white I should be okay with the divine white walls and my cabinets wont look green or purple or pink etc??

    Thanks

  • Elraes Miller
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I got so tired of looking at white samples, the paint distributor happened to be there and gave me a free sample book. I was so pleased and then got home to become confused again.

    All those colors to play with, I ended up jumping the boat and chose by common names...Off White for walls and Bright White for trim, doors and ceiling. Sounds dull, but gratefully turned out being the right choices. The off white is not what was remembered of yore, nor antique white which was my original direction. The colors used still have undertones at times of day and lighting. But all goes well with my home. And a wonderful change from gray/beige after 14 years of living in 2 homes with this. My house feels so much larger, clean and still cozy.

    Am not the colorist, but still amazes me how many whites to choose from and how different each looks on walls. I tried the colors suggested here and on other posts, but they just didn't work for me. So many personal choices to deal with in just paint. And I haven't seen a room with suggested colors I didn't like.

  • ontariomom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    bundy,

    My apologies for completing missing your original question. Thanks for clarifying it was the wall colour you were debating and not the cabinet and trim colour. Unfortunately, I don't have much of an answer for you on that topic. You said your floor will be wood look tile. What about your counters? If divine white has cream in it so should the counters (assuming the counters are light coloured). Your wall colour should relate to your counters and back splash. Does divine white relate? Is the space open concept? If so, what is going on colour wise in the other rooms?

    Carol

  • bundy123
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ontario, Yes its the walls.

    The kitchen is open to the dining room. The counters have not been chosen yet but will definitely go with the wall color. I am trying to decide to do all beigey granite or a granite perimeter and butcher block walnut color on the island

    So it would be dining room and kitchen walls in divine white and trim for both in SW extra white and the cabinets extra white as well. Island would be a stained wood to break up the white a bit. Hope that helps


    Technicolor I hear you on the colors....give me like 10 to chose from and I am cool....put me in the paint store and I will spend 3 hours vacillating over a color. I have gotten it down to picking 10 samples bringing them home and then getting the hubby to help out. Color is not my strong point but I can spot a crooked stud from a mile away lol.

    Bundy

  • ontariomom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bundy,

    It will be so much easier to choose your paint colour after you choose your counter (there are tons of paint colours and only so many counters). Your plan sounds lovely.

    Carol

  • Elraes Miller
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I bought a true white without any mixing of other colors. It turned out to be exactly what I wanted...thankfully. The off white wasn't exactly what I was after, but on the walls has turned out to be great in combination with the true white. Although it is interesting that painting over beige the off white is a totally different color than painting over white. I thought painting the trim and cove ceiling all one color would make the room look larger. Somewhere a couple of people have done this with success, so I took a chance. The ceiling is definitely a different shade than the walls and won't work. Am painting both in true white. Although I did paint my son's room entirely in a beige and it looks great, no cove ceiling though and the light is totally different.

    Bundy, the stores put out paint cards to draw our attention, I think it is a marketing ploy. I knew there was a catalog of colors which showed every color available together, rather than 4 whatever matching they offer on those little cards. Blues, greens, reds, whites, etc. are grouped together in chapter form. This made it so much easier to see all the whites together and find what I was after. The catalog is behind their barrier to you, one has to ask to see it.

  • ontariomom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That was an educational post, funcolors. Where can a customer get that information to see where a white is plotted (or any other color for that matter)? I wondered how SW Alabaster aligns with the other whites you discussed?

    O.T. Funcolors, I sure wish you would chime-in on my thread on master bedroom decor as combining colors is challenging me in that room.

    Carol

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Even the plain paint base with zero colorant added starts out with some degree or lean of hue. Might be red (pink). Might be blue. Might be gray.

    You never know. And since formulas are constantly changing, one week it might lean blue and the next, green. Plus, sometimes reformulations are publicized but most of the time they're not; keeping up on all that across all brands would be a herculean effort.

    Three things to remember are: 1) this is why there is no such thing as "pure" or "true" white, 2) this contributes to why reading formulas is moot, 3) this contributes to why it's sometimes impossible to get Paint Brand A's paint color matched using Paint Brand B's paint base.

    7008 ALABASTER
    Hue - 5.45Y Value - 9.299163818 Chroma - 0.609335899

    Alabaster is from the middle of the Yellow hue family with a healthy amount of chroma at .609. Which means a normal human color acuity should easily see its character and the signature of yellow - or creamy - will likely hold out in most contexts and light sources.

    I plot colors manually, there isn't ready-made reference source. Sometimes I have the color notation directly from the manufacturer and sometimes I have to calculate it.

    I love working with Dunn-Edwards and Glidden especially because they provide color notations in addition to LRVs.

  • ontariomom
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Funcolors,

    You have quite the eye for colour. Thanks for your info.

    Carol

  • bundy123
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    WOW Funcolors. Thanks so much for your detailed post. It makes a whole lot more sense to me now. I will go with the divine on the walls and extra white for the trim. Based on what you said for the ceiling I think I may just really tone back the divine white and have that on the ceilings. Not sure of the correct term but where they make the same color lighter. I cannot thank you enough for your information both here and elsewhere on the site. Appreciate the time you take to explain why and not just a "yes" or a "no"

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No problem.

    Thanks to the interwebs there is a wealth of misinformation propagated about how color works. I do what I can to set it straight. Unfortunately, doing so requires rather long explanations. Big color questions, will have big answers.

    Out there on the interwebs and in blogosphere I am definitely outnumbered by the color confused. Even tho they have the best intentions, they don't always have the best information or most accurate facts about color.

  • sunnygal82
    9 years ago

    Hi - Noticed this thread - I'm painting a majority of my walls with SW Divine White and using SW Alabaster for the Ceiling/Trim/Kitchen Cabinetry. What are people's thoughts on this? Will there be enough of a contrast? My home gets alot of natural light.