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canuck88

Gel Stain Help - big project!

canuck88
14 years ago

Hi all,

I've seen some impressive results from celticmoon and others who have used gel stain over top of previously finished wood.

I have a huge project I am planning to undertake with this method - a large circular solid oak staircase. The staircase is currently a light golden oak color, and I'd like to 'stain' it a darker shade. I'm opting to try this method because painting the balusters, risers, etc. would be such a travesty since it is such beautiful wood.

I also can't strip it and start over - there are 80+ spindles, and it would take a lifetime (or $$$$).

Luckily there is a carpet runner, so I can test everything out under where the runner is.

Here are my questions:

1. Using a brush to apply the gel stain on the spindles will be very difficult - is it possible to use a cloth or sponge to get the same effect? Using a brush on the treads, risers, and handrail would not be a problem.

2. Can a wipe-on poly be used on top of this gel stain finish? Again, I was thinking of using a wipe-on poly for all areas except the treads (on which I would use a more heavy-duty finish).

3. The only stain that is available in my area is Minwax. Any tips on working with this specific stain?

4. Am I crazy for trying to take this on? lol

Cheers!

PS - cross-posted to woodworking

Comments (14)

  • hamsundm
    14 years ago

    oops, I just saw that you have the runner area you can test on. perfect!

  • pris
    14 years ago

    How well does the gel stain work if you're not planning on stripping or sanding? Does it get through the varnish or does it just cover it with out penetrating? Kind of like an antiquing process?

    But I digress. Your question regarding how to apply gel to all those spindles reminds me of the fence builders in my neck of the woods. They use painters mitts to paint all those posts. Probably uses more paint than a brush but cuts the time to apply down considerably. You would still go back to wipe off the excess.

  • mclarke
    14 years ago

    Personally, yes, I think you're crazy.

    What color will you be trying to stain it?

    You realize that you will still have to sand every little bit of every baluster before you apply the gel stain.

    If it is such "a beautiful wood", why do you want it darker? Gel stain will only obscure the grain and give you a dark, murky effect. It will never look like mahogany. It will always look like stained oak.

    I realize that oak is not "in fashion" right now, but I always feel that wood needs to be honored for what it is. Imagine ten years from now, looking at the staircase, and saying, "I can't believe I did that to that beautiful oak"...

  • hamsundm
    14 years ago

    Here are pics of my gel staining.

    before gel stain:

    after gel stain:

    I did a light sanding (to get rid of the sheen) and a good cleaning. The gel stain basically sits on top of the existing.

  • pumpkin_spice
    14 years ago

    projectsneverend, your results are beautiful. My cabinets currently look much like yours in the before picture, and I'd been considering paint but now I'm toying with the idea of gel staining.

    What color stain did you use? And how many applications did it require?

  • norasnews
    14 years ago

    I am a huge gel stain fan... I have used it on various projects through out the house.... darkening a desk, chair legs, chairs and counter stools....

    I used General Finishes Java or Ebony.. one can goes a long way, and I loaned it out to a friend since she too wanted to "update" all that orange wood!

    I used an old sock on my hand like a mitt with a latex glove underneath.. cause it does bleed through. Then I wiped with a rag. (I finally found a use for all those mate less socks I had.)

    I did not use poly.. and probably should have on the counter stool seats, since they get scratched ... everything else is holding up fine.

    Oh, I did not sand a thing. Just cleaned and wiped with a dust cloth.

    Now.. I have been debating PAINTING my banister. BLACK. Not sure why I have not thought about Gel Staining it. Might have to try that myself... my spindles are white... so it would not be that difficult!

    I think I am going to go for it!

  • hamsundm
    14 years ago

    pumpkin - I did one coat of general finishes java gel stain. I put it on too thick, though, and it took forever to dry. I really should have done 2 thinner coats. Then I used general finishes top coat. Do a search for celticmoon's steps - she posted great directions... somewhere!
    And Nora - I agree, one can goes a long way!

  • canuck88
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I plan to do 2 thinner coats, rather than slather it on - any suggestions on how long to leave it before wiping off the excess?

    mclarke - I'm not trying to hide the oak grain. I love oak. I just don't like the 'golden' stain that is on it. I'd rather it be a richer color (like a fumed oak). And yes, I know I need to sand all of it lightly with 220 grit paper.

  • myredhouse
    14 years ago

    I just did a vanity using celticmoon's directions and keep meaning to post a picture for everyone!

    I didn't do the espresso first coat (just two coats of java) to please my husband. He wanted the wood grain to show; I just wanted it to be less dated looking. The java by itself has the slightest reddish undertone, if that is going to bother you, or you want a way darker look, do the espresso coat too. I would seriously consider finding a way to get the General Finishes products vs. Miniwax. I've used both and General Finishes is about a million times better. Very much worth the effort. Their wipe on poly is amazing.

    I applied the gel stain with a sponge brush and bought a sack of rags at HD to wipe it off. With the spindles you should probably use the sock over gloves idea to apply it just because it would be easier. You will need gloves. The process doesn't take long at all, (except for the drying between steps), but it IS messy. Wear painting clothes! The whole vanity took me about a week worth of lunch breaks- 40 minutes here, a half hour there, and that's with me putting everything away and changing my clothes each day. And while mclarke is right, you will have to sand before you gel stain, you don't have to sand very well and nothing like the full on stripping you'd have to do to refinish. A sponge sander would be a good choice for spindles.

    I waited about 5 minutes before wiping it off, but I know others don't wait that long at all. I did thicker coats since that was what was in celticmoon's directions- thicker just means you have to wipe up more excess, but you're less likely to need more then just the two coats. You just don't want to wait too long is all as it does start to dry a little.

    Good luck!

  • pumpkin_spice
    14 years ago

    Do you wait for the first coat to dry before rubbing on the second? Or do you apply the second immediately?

    I found celticmoon's directions, which will be incredibly helpful, but that's one thing I wasn't sure on.

  • woodchuck_mo
    14 years ago

    myredhouse - please do post pictures. I also have some cabinets I would like to do.

  • powermuffin
    14 years ago

    If you don't let each coat dry completely before putting on the second coat, you will mess up the first coat. The key to using this stuff is to use light coats and to blend it in quickly, from edge to edge without picking up the brush/cloth if possible. You can feather in stops and starts, but it is much better just to not stop. I put some gel down in the area I am working on. With a brush I quickly smooth it out from edge to edge until it is evenly applied (with the grain). Then I make one long, light stroke down the piece from edge to edge. I go quickly to the next section, and so on. Some gel stains give you much more open time than others.

    On stairs, I am betting that it will scuff & scratch off. It does not penitrate. It works on cabinets because they don't get much contact. I would never use this product on anything that gets heavy contact, especially with dirt/sand/grit.
    Diane

  • myredhouse
    14 years ago

    I waited 24 hours between coats. I broke it down by section since I was working with small chunks of time- I did the doors first, then the 3 drawers and left the vanity base for last. Then I poly'd the whole thing at the same time, 2 coats, 24 hours of drying in between again. I'll take some pictures tomorrow to share when I'm back over at the house.

    I made no real effort to apply the gel stain in any particular way other then thickly and smoothly (which is probably why it was so messy for me) and it looks fine. I'm sure if you make extra effort to do it perfectly like powermuffin details it will look even better. This was one of MANY projects I need to do so I wasn't looking for perfection, just better than it was! I finished a couple of weeks ago and we haven't moved in yet, so I don't know about wear- with the poly it seems durable enough. I don't know how rough you are on the stairs, if you are a shoe free house etc., but if you are using a runner anyway, it might be fine.